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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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JeffersonClay posted:So unfounded assertions about farm worker pay are totally fine with you, as long as the assertion is their pay is sub-minimum wage? the average tells us that, at minimum, substantial numbers of agricultural workers must earn more than the minimum wage.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:25
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centrists are now using heather heyer's corpse to denounce antifa https://twitter.com/BirdsGetStarted/status/897306077515198468
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Aug 15, 2017 18:25
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If you wouldn't put your own family's economic needs above those of other families, you're a bad parent.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:32
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Condiv posted:centrists are now using heather heyer's corpse to denounce antifa
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Aug 15, 2017 18:32
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Condiv posted:centrists are now using heather heyer's corpse to denounce antifa whoops, they've already changed their profile pic. probably after receiving a metric poo poo ton of blowback. so here's a screencap of it!  
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Aug 15, 2017 18:35
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uhhhh its a good thing that hashtag the resistance has established themselves as NOT anti-fascist. now we know where they stand
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Aug 15, 2017 18:36
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Sneakster posted:Jesus Christ. One single death and the liberals are already with the fascists against communists. 
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Aug 15, 2017 18:37
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Ytlaya posted:Regardless, actual net earnings of CA farm workers are very low, which is more important than hourly pay. A big thing most liberals ignore when talking about the economy and employment is that, even though unemployment is low, a large portion of employment is in jobs that aren't full-time. This is actually a blind spot of merely increasing minimum wage. It's still undeniably a good thing that should be done, but we need to be aiming for high total yearly earnings, not just decent hourly wages (since in many cases, especially with low paid work, workers aren't full-time).\ in rural Texas among almost all of my coworkers, the chief concern is not getting enough hours. everyone I know that has a family to take care of and can only get their foot into minimum wage jobs is working a second job (and in one case, a third) with a total of 60+ hours across the board and no days off, leaving them with little time to even raise their children, let alone personal time. in fact, I'm the only person I know of that is more concerned with getting paid more per hour than get more paid hours, and that's because I can't stand working more than 30 hours a week. I took being homeless for a few months over working a second job, as I felt having a home pointless if I didn't have time to spend in it outside of sleeping. I still fully sympathize with my coworkers, however, in that there is rarely availability for full-time work. ultimately whenever I hear talk about unemployment numbers being down I kind of disregard them - in service industry work like mine, we actually have a shortage of workers and are constantly understaffed because not enough people are applying for the job. unemployment numbers may be down, but there's still a shocking shortage of good jobs that people actually want to do. I look through job listings on a near daily basis and put in applications to the rare few part time positions that would be an upgrade, but generally all I ever see are countless advertisements for truck drivers which isn't all that glamorous even if you discount the fact that technology is coming at that career field with a god damned remote-controlled knife. additionally most people I know think the Fight For 15 is kind of absurd because we don't really need that kind of a minimum wage here. assuming no inflation, 10 for this kind of work is probably a good spot, especially if companies actually gave out raises meritocratically, instead of just draining every worker of their lifeforce because most people in this line of work are trapped here for life.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:40
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The #RESISTANCE posted:statue lives matter!! in case you guys are wondering what the property destruction they're complaining about in that tweet is: http://abcnews.go.com/US/confederate-statue-toppled-north-carolina-rally/story?id=49218570&yptr=yahoo leftists toppled and hosed up a statue of a confederate idiot. centrists are upset about it cause it wasn't taken down with enough decorum i guess? 
Condiv fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 18:42
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Step back, boys. I'm about to drop the hottest of takes. It's possible to be anti-facist...while also not supporting antifa/black bloc 
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Aug 15, 2017 18:44
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^ - Avatar/post comboCondiv posted:in case you guys are wondering what the property destruction they're complaining about in that tweet is: http://abcnews.go.com/US/confederate-statue-toppled-north-carolina-rally/story?id=49218570&yptr=yahoo Personally, I can't wait for them to take out the bas-relief at Stone Mountain. 
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Aug 15, 2017 18:45
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Call Me Charlie posted:Step back, boys. I'm about to drop the hottest of takes. It's possible to be anti-facist...while also not supporting antifa/black bloc nah cornell west and a bunch of other black protesters were saved from fascists by.... antifa!!
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Aug 15, 2017 18:46
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Oh no property damage  EDIT: ahaha I thought they were talking about general destruction during protests but reading that twitter link they are mad about the toppling of the Confederate statue. Sorry guys we can't remove this gross display of white supremacy since property rights must be respected. #theresistance is the most impotent thing I can imagine. Seems no one really likes them anymore since it's becoming clear they are a worthless hashtag that does nothing but bitch about Trump and leftists. Like the thing that got everyone pissed at Trump was him saying both sides are bad and here's the loving #resistance saying the exact same thing what the hell. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 18:50
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cash this check boyos - its possible to be anti-malaria... w/out supporting malaria vaccines
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Aug 15, 2017 18:52
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Calibanibal posted:cash this check boyos - its possible to be anti-malaria... w/out supporting malaria vaccines Well, to be fair, ol' Teddy dealt with the problem in Panama by using GASOLINE AND POISON GAS. 
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Aug 15, 2017 18:54
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Condiv posted:No, the ufw's messaging revolves around protecting families, not crops. We know Kamala disagrees with that cause she'd like to jail a lot of parents for years over truancy. The UFW's messaging revolves around connecting farm workers with the food people eat as a means to humanize their membership. twodot posted:Failing to understand math, as you've done here, is a more egregious problem than failing to offer cites for your claims. An unfounded assertion can at least theoretically be true, even if we shouldn't trust it without verifying, and I don't think it always unreasonable to have a provisional conversation on the basis on unverified claims. Your claim that an average, on its own, tells you anything about the wages of a "substantial" number of workers is definitely false. (I'm not making claims about what agricultural workers earn, just that the average you've posted doesn't get you an ability to dispute any unfounded claims) You are making a wholly unsupported assertion here, that there are a substantial number of farm workers earning massive wages which skews the average wage making it a useless metric. Prove it. Ytlaya posted:The issue with her tweet isn't that deporting immigrants is okay, but that it's a dumb angle to criticize it from. Deporting immigrants is bad because it hurts people, not because it causes crops to go unpicked. It's bad for both reasons, actually, and Kamala Harris has used both to criticize it, as her advocacy on the issue is not encapsulated in a single tweet. Ytlaya posted:edit: Like, to use an exaggerated (but accurate) analogy, it's like if someone criticized Nazi Germany on the basis of it decreasing the earnings of corporations that relied on Germany for resources (or something). It's a bizarre thing to focus on. A better analogy would be criticizing the appropriation of Jewish businesses and the removal of Jews from the German labor force as both immoral and economically harmful. Nazis claimed they were helping the German economy by removing the Jews--rebutting that assertion is smart. Trump claims deportations will help the economy--rebutting that assertion is smart.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:58
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Mister Facetious posted:Well, to be fair, ol' Teddy dealt with the problem in Panama by using GASOLINE AND POISON GAS.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:00
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JeffersonClay posted:The UFW's messaging revolves around connecting farm workers with the food people eat as a means to humanize their membership. no i looked at their response to the trump deportation bullshit and its centered around protecting families, not crops. try again jc edit: or even better, don't. cause worthless centrists like harris are nigh indefensible Condiv fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 19:01
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Rent-A-Cop posted:There is no problem, whether it be mosquitoes or nazis, that a sufficient quantity of poison gas can't solve. That would be deliciously ironic.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:05
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Call Me Charlie posted:Step back, boys. I'm about to drop the hottest of takes. It's possible to be anti-facist...while also not supporting antifa/black bloc You know, I was one of the posters who got constant flak post 11/9 for saying not all right wingers / Trump supporters were actually fascists, and that yelling bash the fash at them without discrimination was not appropriate... but even I draw the line when it comes to actual marches of the hardcore far right activists. Destroying actual fascist organization is crucial, and well, sometimes the means to do so aren't entirely legal. The moral imperative is greater than any law, though.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:07
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Condiv posted:no i looked at their response to the trump deportation bullshit and its centered around protecting families, not crops. try again jc https://mobile.twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/897194944661667840 #wefeedyou Oh and they retweeted this: https://mobile.twitter.com/SenKamalaHarris/status/897475606874652672 Wrong as usual Condiv
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Aug 15, 2017 19:08
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JeffersonClay posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/897194944661667840 notice both of those tweets center on the people being deported, not the crops dying in the fields. give it up JC. you've spent the better part of 2 days trying to convince everyone that kamala harris made a good tweet. and no-one's buying it.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:09
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JeffersonClay posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/897194944661667840 Buddy, you are the one who was basically saying that agricultural workers have it good enough as is, everybody else has been saying they deserve better all along.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:10
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Condiv posted:notice both of those tweets center on the people being deported, not the crops dying in the fields. They're humanizing their membership by connecting the food people eat with the farm workers who produce it you dense piece of poo poo. steinrokkan posted:Buddy, you are the one who was basically saying that agricultural workers have it good enough as is, everybody else has been saying they deserve better all along. No, I was ony rebutting your defense of deportation with unfounded assertions that CA farm workers are plantation slaves who work for nothing and distort the labor market.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:15
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JeffersonClay posted:They're humanizing their membership by connecting the food people eat with the farm workers who produce it you dense piece of poo poo. yes, and kamala didn't do that when she tweeted about crops dying in the fields because of trump's deportation policy you disingenuous piece of poo poo. no-one believes she gives a poo poo about immigrant families either, because she's more than happy to needlessly tear them apart over mild truancy. give it up JC, you're not convincing anyone, and your attempted defense of kamala has failed the thread's moving on, give up your 2+ day crusade for kamala
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Aug 15, 2017 19:18
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Condiv posted:centrists are now using heather heyer's corpse to denounce antifa The geotag from Idaho sure is interesting.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:21
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Condiv posted:yes, and kamala didn't do that when she tweeted about crops dying in the fields because of trump's deportation policy you disingenuous piece of poo poo. no-one believes she gives a poo poo about immigrant families either, because she's more than happy to needlessly tear them apart over mild truancy. give it up JC, you're not convincing anyone, and your attempted defense of kamala has failed Youve got to be real dumb to not understand how "farm workers give us food" and "deportations mean food rots" are related. The UFW believes Kamala Harris cares about those things because they endorsed her and retweet her when she tweets about them. I think it would be a good idea for you to abandon this idiotic slur of Kamala Harris as well.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:23
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JeffersonClay posted:A better analogy would be criticizing the appropriation of Jewish businesses and the removal of Jews from the German labor force as both immoral and economically harmful. Nazis claimed they were helping the German economy by removing the Jews--rebutting that assertion is smart. Trump claims deportations will help the economy--rebutting that assertion is smart. The appropriation of wealth from the conquered peoples of eastern europe was like the literal basis of the Nazi economy
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Aug 15, 2017 19:27
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JeffersonClay posted:Youve got to be real dumb to not understand how "deportations mean food rots" isn't expressing concern about workers.  Jc. And it's been explained to you over and over again while you twist yourself into knots to defend kamala. Hopefully everyone in the thread stops responding to you after this.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:31
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I'm convinced JC has to secretly be a leftist troll using reverse psychology to make us aware of which centrists are worth worrying about. I can't think of a better reason to never support Harris than JC defending her.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:34
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:The appropriation of wealth from the conquered peoples of eastern europe was like the literal basis of the Nazi economy Yes and did it produce prosperity for the German laborer as the Nazis promised? Like are you arguing that actually the holocaust had real economic benefits? Condiv posted:
I agree, it's a good idea for you to stop erasing the views and advocacy of Cesar Chavez's union, but if you can't help yourself, oh well. WampaLord posted:I'm convinced JC has to secretly be a leftist troll using reverse psychology to make us aware of which centrists are worth worrying about. lol literally "if it makes democrats mad it must be good", triggered much libs?
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Aug 15, 2017 19:49
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https://twitter.com/JesseRodriguez/status/897476925878411264 Initially I skipped over this article for the lede in a blur of 'lol no poo poo, amirite'? However, another, more adventurous goon went diving into the trash and found this gem. quote:The White House’s response appears to have done just that. The president’s short speech on Monday earned bipartisan praise while leaving some of Saturday’s marchers still feeling a part of the Trump movement. Let this sink in for a moment: you have the NRO and other explicitly conservative mouthpieces calling Trump's second speech the forced, insincere bullshit that it is. This line is from a U.S. Democratic senator. It has to be stupidity on some level.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:59
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes and did it produce prosperity for the German laborer as the Nazis promised? Like are you arguing that actually the holocaust had real economic benefits? the united states holocaust memorial museum thinks so quote:Hitler did not make the Holocaust happen by himself. Many Germans and non-Germans contributed to/or benefited from the so-called “Final Solution” (the term used by the Nazis for their plan to annihilate the European Jews). anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Main_Economic_and_Administrative_Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEST https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Wirtschaftsbetriebe
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Aug 15, 2017 20:05
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JeffersonClay posted:lol literally "if it makes democrats mad it must be good", triggered much libs? Making triggered jokes is something conservatives love to do, no surprise that you also trivialize PTSD.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:06
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/JesseRodriguez/status/897476925878411264 Amazing. Are centrists trying to be better allies to trump than the right? Or does it just come naturally to them as a result of their spinelessness and devotion to meaningless decorum?
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Aug 15, 2017 20:07
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I asked this awhile back:Sneakster posted:The liberals hold the state as of now, the big question is: who are the liberals going to cede the state to? Call Me Charlie posted:Step back, boys. I'm about to drop the hottest of takes. It's possible to be anti-facist...while also not supporting antifa/black bloc Good thing the fa will listen to reason and protect property rights. a cat on an apple posted:I took being homeless for a few months over working a second job, as I felt having a home pointless if I didn't have time to spend in it outside of sleeping. I still fully sympathize with my coworkers, however, in that there is rarely availability for full-time work. a cat on an apple posted:ultimately whenever I hear talk about unemployment numbers being down I kind of disregard them - in service industry work like mine, we actually have a shortage of workers and are constantly understaffed because not enough people are applying for the job. unemployment numbers may be down, but there's still a shocking shortage of good jobs that people actually want to do Part of me had been thinking liberals will start backing fascists by the end of the summer, but I was just being pessimistic. Maybe I was, but it'd be a whole lot dumber to be optimistic. steinrokkan posted:Buddy, you are the one who was basically saying that agricultural workers have it good enough as is, everybody else has been saying they deserve better all along. Office Pig posted:It has to be stupidity on some level. Condiv posted:Amazing. Are centrists trying to be better allies to trump than the right? Or does it just come naturally to them as a result of their spinelessness and devotion to meaningless decorum? Also from awhile back but: WampaLord posted:Well, to be frank, gently caress off out of here then and don't come back. I don't want to share my country with weak cowards like you who's answer to "We have a lot of work to do" is to go "Nah gently caress that lol!" WampaLord posted:I'm convinced JC has to secretly be a leftist troll using reverse psychology to make us aware of which centrists are worth worrying about. JeffersonClay posted:Like are you arguing that actually the holocaust had real economic benefits?
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Aug 15, 2017 20:22
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes and did it produce prosperity for the German laborer as the Nazis promised? Like are you arguing that actually the holocaust had real economic benefits? Has the union proposed that there should remain undocumented workers in CA agriculture or what? Because everybody has been saying that the role of organized labor should be increased, not decreased.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:the united states holocaust memorial museum thinks so Like I know what the holocaust was, and I know the Nazis extracted slave labor from their victims and stole their property, but did those actions actually produce more economic prosperity than the counterfactual where there is no holocaust and European Jews weren't liquidated or forced to emigrate? No. And I'm sure the holocaust museum does not think so.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:37
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steinrokkan posted:Has the union proposed that there should remain undocumented workers in CA agriculture or what? Because everybody has been saying that the role of organized labor should be increased, not decreased. They advocate for amnesty and oppose deportation in the absence of amnesty. They support Kamala Harris' efforts for the same.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:39
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Condiv posted:Amazing. Are centrists trying to be better allies to trump than the right? Or does it just come naturally to them as a result of their spinelessness and devotion to meaningless decorum? To be fair, his last two examples of a Democratic Party President include a Blue Dog in everything but name, and a wimp centrist who's first instinct was to cave in to whatever the GOP and Wall Street wanted so much, that Boehner was actually surprised when Obama let the government shut down. Not exactly the best role models.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:48
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