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Mustached Demon posted:The alt right are Nazis too scared to call themselves Nazis. Therefore the alt left must be the allied powers humble enough to not compare themselves to the folk brave enough to defeat the Nazis the first go around. "I'm not a Nazi, I'm a Grand Exalted Knight of Kekistan!"  
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 08:09
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Majorian posted:Yeah, 2016 broke her brain, which is understandable but sad. She's someone I used to respect. She also throws around "The Resistance" quite a bit and oh god no Joy no stop
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Aug 16, 2017 08:09
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Potato Salad posted:The alt-left term is more "no, u" by the far right, like how they started co-opting Fake News after the election. there was a lot of disingenuous poo poo posting from thread regulars in response to my quite pedestrian and obvious statement of fact, but your take was certainly the weirdest of them all
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Aug 16, 2017 08:12
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stone cold posted:the bigger crime is letting it stand imo  hopefully we have jury nullification or people interfering with the arrests
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Aug 16, 2017 08:12
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Crazy Ted posted:She also throws around "The Resistance" quite a bit and oh god no Joy no stop I really wonder if they chose this moniker because of the new Star Wars. There's other interpretions, but this is the same group that makes everything either a Harry Potter or Handmaid's Tale reference.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:13
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I really wonder if they chose this moniker because of the new Star Wars. There's other interpretions, but this is the same group that makes everything either a Harry Potter or Handmaid's Tale reference. Personally I prefer simpler terms for myself and those I side with and I don't have some desire to let Donald Trump of all people try to get some sort of rhetorical win against us. Alt-left lost all tiny meaning and use once Trump uttered it and we should shame anyone who repeats it going forward
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Aug 16, 2017 08:16
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RuanGacho posted:Personally I prefer simpler terms for myself and those I side with and I don't have some desire to let Donald Trump of all people try to get some sort of rhetorical win against us. Alt-left lost all tiny meaning and use once Trump uttered it and we should shame anyone who repeats it going forward Shame on anyone who doesn't at least denounce the alt right as Nazis. That's it. Nothing short of that.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:17
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RuanGacho posted:Personally I prefer simpler terms for myself and those I side with and I don't have some desire to let Donald Trump of all people try to get some sort of rhetorical win against us. Alt-left lost all tiny meaning and use once Trump uttered it and we should shame anyone who repeats it going forward it never really had any meaning.it was mostly just a way to try to equivocate leftists with fascists, which horseshoe theory lovers love to do all the time so they latched on to it wonder how many of those liberals would still proudly claim horseshoe theory is real?
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Aug 16, 2017 08:18
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I really wonder if they chose this moniker because of the new Star Wars. There's other interpretions, but this is the same group that makes everything either a Harry Potter or Handmaid's Tale reference. We should call ourselves the Jedi Order then. We were complacent props of Republic that was corrupt who were brutally slain in a surprise attack and now we skulk from the shadows as a resistance group fighting an evil empire. The only issue is we have no Luke, Leia, or Han, but their emperor is a loving idiot and there is no Darth Vader. Edit: for the record, I'm being sarcastic. Covok fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 08:18
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Kilroy posted:I don't know if that will work this time. It's easy to define the terms of the debate when you're going up against liberals because: they are arrogant enough to think they can still win if they let you, and they subscribe to a pretty empty ideology in the first place. If you try to call socialists the 'alt-left' they'll just reply with "no, we're socialists" which is a lot more taboo, and so that's what everyone will focus on. It would be like if, instead of Spencer or whoever coining the term "alt-right", the establishment media started calling them that apropos of nothing, and then their response was "well no actually we're fascists", which for most American liberals is about equally taboo. No one would care about "alt-right" in that case. I certainly hope you're right that about that tactic not working, because I'm pretty sure that will be the attempted narrative at least in the near future. I do imagine the conversation going as you say, at which point the only retort from a conservative would be "aha! caught you!" followed by a "so what" from a self-professed socialist. If so that would make the spamming of alt-left equivalency pretty impotent. We'll see.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:20
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Mustached Demon posted:Shame on anyone who doesn't at least denounce the alt right as Nazis. Agreed.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:22
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Highbrow Slick posted:I certainly hope you're right that about that tactic not working, because I'm pretty sure that will be the attempted narrative at least in the near future. I do imagine the conversation going as you say, at which point the only retort from a conservative would be "aha! caught you!" followed by a "so what" from a self-professed socialist. If so that would make the spamming of alt-left equivalency pretty impotent. We'll see.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:26
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Mendrian posted:Here's what I don't understand about 'Alt-Left'. Jean-Paul Sartre posted:The anti-Semite has chosen hate because hate is a faith; at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons. How entirely at ease he feels as a result. How futile and frivolous discussions about the rights of the Jew appear to him. He has pleased himself on other ground from the beginning. If out of courtesy he consents for a moment to defend his point of view, he lends himself but does not give himself. He tries simply to project his intuitive certainty onto the plane of discourse. I mentioned awhile back some remarks by anti-Semites, all of them absurd: "I hate Jews because they make servants insubordinate, because a Jewish furrier robbed me, etc." Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:29
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Kilroy posted:The only wrinkle is that it's liberal Democrats spamming that poo poo just as gleefully as the right-wing hardliners, but I don't think it will be enough. depends on if the liberal democrats are really interested in uniting with the left, and all that entails, instead of demanding fealty and throwing a fit when the left doesn't fall in line  all signs point to this not happening
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Aug 16, 2017 08:29
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92 retweets and 153 likes, definitely got a finger on the pulse of the American people there. For real can we please stop citing Twitter as proof of broad support for X thing among Y group?
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Aug 16, 2017 08:32
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Lightning Knight posted:92 retweets and 153 likes, definitely got a finger on the pulse of the American people there. But this tweet with one like and one dislike says that Nazis want to work with communists to reconcile their differences. Clearly, this person has their finger on the pulse of America.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:33
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Lightning Knight posted:92 retweets and 153 likes, definitely got a finger on the pulse of the American people there. they're not the only ones pulling that BS. there's a lot of people trying to disown antifa as bad even on these forums. this one was notable for using the image of heather heyer to do it though
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Aug 16, 2017 08:35
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Condiv posted:they're not the only ones pulling that BS. there's a lot of people trying to disown antifa as bad even on these forums. this one was notable for using the image of heather heyer to do it though I support antifa.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:36
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Covok posted:I support antifa. me too. i'm glad there are some people who support heroes
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Aug 16, 2017 08:39
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Condiv posted:they're not the only ones pulling that BS. there's a lot of people trying to disown antifa as bad even on these forums. this one was notable for using the image of heather heyer to do it though The notion that political violence could be good is a radical, extreme position in American politics and the fact that so many people here do support it is proof how far to the edge of the political mainstream the forums are. To be clear: bash the fash. But one of the biggest lessons ingrained into Americans from school age is that all protests must be nonviolent. There's a reason MLK was retroactively turned into the good civil rights activist while Malcom X is too radical and controversial for American schools.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:39
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Lightning Knight posted:The notion that political violence could be good is a radical, extreme position in American politics and the fact that so many people here do support it is proof how far to the edge of the political mainstream the forums are. And that's why the Nazis win and that's why America and social progress is so hosed. We have been successfully indoctrinated into a state of self-inflicted helplessness and complacency of a flawed status quo.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:41
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Lightning Knight posted:92 retweets and 153 likes, definitely got a finger on the pulse of the American people there. I mean this was a thing too: https://twitter.com/IndivisibleTeam/status/896756106554470401 Sometimes it's what you don't say, and when you try to pretend that the people who actually put their rear end on the line don't even exist, the meaning is clear. And then these same fuckers call for unity on the left. I think that is not possible, sorry.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:42
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Lightning Knight posted:The notion that political violence could be good is a radical, extreme position in American politics and the fact that so many people here do support it is proof how far to the edge of the political mainstream the forums are. antifa isn't just about political violence though. they protect people from genocidal maniacs. the clergy in charlottesville would've been attacked by nazis if antifa hadn't helped them out! i fully support antifa punching nazis wherever they find them, but i view that as more self-defense than anything, because a person who has subscribed to nazi ideology has signalled their intent to kill me, leftists, unionists, minorities, lgbtq, etc. they have declared themselves as wanting to kill anyone who's not cis-white and far right Condiv fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 08:42
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Antifa is cool but not for everyone
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Aug 16, 2017 08:43
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Covok posted:And that's why the Nazis win and that's why America and social progress is so hosed. We have been successfully indoctrinated into a state of self-inflicted helplessness and complacency of a flawed status quo. I mean, yeah? Pretty much really. We're all doomed Covok, because global warming and automation and Nazis. get therapy  Condiv posted:antifa isn't just about political violence though. they protect people from genocidal maniacs. the clergy in charlottesville would've been attacked by nazis if antifa hadn't helped them out! I think antifa is good. I also think it would be good if every American with white nationalist sympathies dropped dead. But thinking these things is unambiguously not normal in American politics, for shame. Kilroy posted:Okay show me a Democrat with as much name recognition as Mitt Romney who's come out in even lukewarm support of antifascists like he did. I mean, we had this discussion in the other thread, but the other problem with this argument is that we're talking about statements written by staffers, not the politicians. I mean gently caress, Bernie has like three twitter accounts and he maybe has written five tweets for them.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:46
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It's no longer liberal vs conservative, left vs right, gop vs DNC. It's Americans vs loving Nazis.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:47
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Mustached Demon posted:It's no longer liberal vs conservative, left vs right, gop vs DNC. It's Americans vs loving Nazis. i'd love to believe that, but liberals are still being liberals so far. too many of them are wringing their hands over poo poo like a statue of a racist getting hosed up nc's governor tweeted about there being better ways to deal with said monuments, when there literally wasn't!
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Aug 16, 2017 08:50
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Condiv posted:i'd love to believe that, but liberals are still being liberals so far. too many of them are wringing their hands over poo poo like a statue of a racist getting hosed up Tell them to loving stop then. All are welcome in crushing the Nazis back into the hole they crawled from.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:51
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Condiv posted:i'd love to believe that, but liberals are still being liberals so far. too many of them are wringing their hands over poo poo like a statue of a racist getting hosed up Dan Harmon posted:"I don't care what flavor you want your Democracy to be. It's DEMOCRACY, VERSUS loving FASCISM!"
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Aug 16, 2017 08:52
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Mustached Demon posted:Tell them to loving stop then. All are welcome in crushing the Nazis back into the hole they crawled from. have been all day. also been yelling at nazi apologists all day. doesn't mean that liberals are ready to actually unite tho cool. so when are liberals gonna team up with us? have they given up on horseshoe theory yet or are they gonna declare us the new fascists after we help them with the real nazis? Condiv fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 08:52
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, we had this discussion in the other thread, but the other problem with this argument is that we're talking about statements written by staffers, not the politicians. I mean, the IndivisibleTeam post, that's literally just former staffers giving you tips or whatever, but apparently one of the tips they would give you is never mention antifascism or any group to the left of Daily Kos or whatever. And the thing is, they're probably right, just like the extent staffers currently manning the Twitter accounts are right to guess that they shouldn't mention much less defend antifa. And that's on the politician. So, ah, gently caress them, and gently caress allying with them, and certainly gently caress voting for any of them, ever again.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:53
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Mustached Demon posted:It's no longer liberal vs conservative, left vs right, gop vs DNC. It's Americans vs loving Nazis.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:55
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Kilroy posted:Can you explain how this makes a difference? Are you suggesting that the politicians really want to make a statement defending antifa from the loving POTUS, but their mean ol' Twitter handlers won't let them? No I'm not talking about the indivisible thing. I'm not familiar with who they are. I'm talking about the whole "why didn't Hillary call them Nazis but Mitt Romney did?" thing. Part of it is undoubtedly because Romney's twitter made its statement today, when it was clear that Republicans were shying away from Trump. But part of it is because Hillary and Romney have little to do with what's posted to their Twitter accounts when it comes to specific language, and it's moreso just staffers trying to post things in line with their opinions. It's also worth observing that Hillary's twitter is reacting to the protests themselves. Romney's, meanwhile, is reacting directly to Trump's comments. Thus, the intent and terminology is going to be different. I just think it's a weird semantic argument really. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 08:57
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Mendrian posted:Here's what I don't understand about 'Alt-Left'. This won't make sense until you understand that cognitive dissonance is not a thing that right-wingers experience. You and I, as sane and rational people, consider it important that our set of beliefs is internally consistent. Right-wingers simply don't give a gently caress.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:57
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Antifa on the street is the same gaggle of spirit-finger absoultionists from occupy with some contrarian anarchist thrown in for flavor. Talk about things that are inflated on the internet. Much like occupy the base ideas are good but everything above that gets lost in a swirling sea of a leaderless morass of everyones pet theories and demands. The greater mass of people at protest and Marches are just people. People out to express solidarity with the base idea. The larger occupy marches, charlottesville, blm ECT. Leaderless causes are too whimsical no matter the ideal. Look to history. There is always a person, or the idea of a person holding things together and acting as a gatekeeper. A fixed point for a movement to coalesce around. Without that it's just a mob. People should be fighting facist, but I'm not looking to them for ideas or guidance.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:57
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It feels like this thread has standardized a cycle when there's nothing really at the front and center to talk about. It also seems like it's reflected in Covok's posting, where it roughly translates to a pattern of "Courage, friends!" to "Hark, a grievous misstep?!" and finally "Alas alack, our undoing is soon upon us." except only slightly more theatrical in its presentation. And then there's a slew of shitposting but that's pretty much what we're all doing anyway.
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Aug 16, 2017 09:00
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bird cooch posted:Antifa on the street is the same gaggle of spirit-finger absoultionists from occupy with some contrarian anarchist thrown in for flavor. Talk about things that are inflated on the internet. Much like occupy the base ideas are good but everything above that gets lost in a swirling sea of a leaderless morass of everyones pet theories and demands. They like to punch Neo-Nazis They like to punch people who fit their assumptions of what a Neo-Nazi should look like It's like when they went to protest the Milo speech at Berkeley, and then beat up and pepper sprayed someone they thought was a Neo-Nazi, only that person turned out to be a Syrian Muslim refugee, who then ended up fleeing the area out of for his own safety. Or when they burned a limo on Inauguration Day, only it turned out the limo's driver was an Iraqi refugee who was still inside the vehicle when they set it on fire. Al Borland Corp. posted:I really wonder if they chose this moniker because of the new Star Wars. There's other interpretions, but this is the same group that makes everything either a Harry Potter or Handmaid's Tale reference. https://twitter.com/funder/status/897632926678081536 Who think that they can literally end the presidency of Donald Trump with a hashtag and a Twitter campaign. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 09:04
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if you've decided you absolutely must engage with kilroy please dont quote him when you do it. don't make us suffer for your foolishness.
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Aug 16, 2017 09:05
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bird cooch posted:Antifa on the street is the same gaggle of spirit-finger absoultionists from occupy with some contrarian anarchist thrown in for flavor. Talk about things that are inflated on the internet. Much like occupy the base ideas are good but everything above that gets lost in a swirling sea of a leaderless morass of everyones pet theories and demands. no one says that antifa should be leading a political ideology. but at the same time you don't have to be an rear end in a top hat about people who are literally fighting fascists
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Aug 16, 2017 09:06
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I will gladly be the "courage friends!!" poster.
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Aug 16, 2017 09:06
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