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Before G1 I only knew Nagata as a hopelessly outmatched can sent to die at the hands of CroCop and Fedor
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Aug 17, 2017 12:31
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quote:Also returning was Hiromu Takahashi’s stuffed cat Darryl, who came out with one of his legs all taped up to sell the injury when Fale tore him limb from limb. 
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Aug 17, 2017 12:35
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Tana's streak of having at least one five star match every year of the BR era continues. The TAKA/Taichi show featuring those two vs. Hiromu and BUSHI has been added to the NJPW World schedule. It airs live on 8/28.
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Aug 17, 2017 12:38
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algebra testes posted:The number in parenthesis is the non-Yano average since Yano was the average killer for a number of people in the B block. I agree with this
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Aug 17, 2017 13:52
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Thauros posted:Tana's streak of having at least one five star match every year of the BR era continues. That's awesome. Any word on Taka's Anniversary Show? You think with Okada on it, it would be more likely. It'd be cool to see Io Shirai on NJPW World too.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:34
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I'm really hoping Nagata's strong G1 turns some people around on voting him into the hall of fame. It was 100% not his fault New Japan business went down in the 00's.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:51
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Baron Corbyn posted:That's awesome. Any word on Taka's Anniversary Show? You think with Okada on it, it would be more likely. It'd be cool to see Io Shirai on NJPW World too. Not yet but the other TAKA show was just added today. I'd expect at the very least we'll get the main event added on demand. SatoshiMiwa posted:I'm really hoping Nagata's strong G1 turns some people around on voting him into the hall of fame. It was 100% not his fault New Japan business went down in the 00's. It's not, but it also means he's a pure workrate candidate as you can't really vote him in based on influence yet either. He's great, and I absolutely feel he would've been a HoFer if he had been born either 10 years earlier or 10 years later but it's tough.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:45
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Yeah, and Dave's said that's why Ishii's not going on the ballot yet, because he'd also be based purely on workrate.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:47
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Thauros posted:Tana's streak of having at least one five star match every year of the BR era continues. And he did it with a completely hosed up elbow. I mean, his elbow has been hosed up for months now, he wrestles tough match upon tough match in the G1, and then in the last match of this grueling tournament he still cranks out a 5-star match? Goddamn impressive. Now hopefully he'll use his movie-shooting time to actually heal up (yeah, I know that won't happen).
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Aug 17, 2017 19:48
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Jerusalem posted:Dave also goes into some fun statistics stuff which I'm positive was an absolute joy for his robot brain to get to play around with It's also kinda hard to see how you can really top this year when even your bottom half guys are cranking out *** matches night after night. The only real dead weight is Yano/Fale and they each have their roles; YTR is the comedy act/unofficial night off and Fale allows someone to work a big man match. I guess if we were going for ***MaXiMuM sTaRz*** for 2018 we'd definitely replace Nagata/YTR/Fale, and maybe Kojima/Juice/Tama since they're the lowest after that, but who do you replace them with? KUSHIDA and  would be the obvious choices if we're going workrate, even though as juniors they'd eat a lot of falls. After that who's left? Do you hope that Riddle can make it through a G1 without smoking himself into being deported? Hope WWE releases a KENTA/Cesaro workrate monster? Put in Shibata and Dragonson and pray neither of them die? At some point this has to peak. Either that or Big Dave inflates his ratings and makes them as useless as Zimbabwe currency.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:07
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Jesus christ, you just put the idea of Cesaro in the G1 into my head. That'd be some poo poo.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:19
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Fale is good and YTR is great. Next year they should have more loving old timers and guys with oddball styles and throw a few more curveballs with match finishes cuz guys going so hard every night is bad for their health and long term business and after few shows I found it real numbing.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:36
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SLUM KING posted:Fale is good and YTR is great. Agreed. I think the comedy matches and "off" matches were some of the most entertaining as well. Yes YTR has three moves and none are wrestling holds, but some of the best moments of the G1 were Sanada just walking by after the Paradise Lock on the entryway and him and Tama Tonga both under the ring for a 20-count. The tournament matches were awesome, no doubt, but the brevity and variety was fun.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:11
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Thauros posted:Not yet but the other TAKA show was just added today. I'd expect at the very least we'll get the main event added on demand. Nagata, Tenzan, Kojima, Akiyama, KENTA, Marufuji are never going in because they are blamed, when it was all that dang Inoki's fault.
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Aug 18, 2017 01:20
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https://twitter.com/SoDuTw/status/898370506902175744
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Aug 18, 2017 03:29
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What a bummer
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Aug 18, 2017 03:36
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You mean to tell me Big Dave's too busy to spend time with his sons?
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Aug 18, 2017 03:39
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Now I'm sad about that for two reasons! 
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Aug 18, 2017 03:40
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GoutPatrol posted:Nagata, Tenzan, Kojima, Akiyama, KENTA, Marufuji are never going in because they are blamed, when it was all that dang Inoki's fault. I can see one or two of them getting in work rate but most will suffer for Inoki's sins. KENTA might have had a chance with a good WWE run but welp
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Aug 18, 2017 03:40
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C. Everett Koop posted:You mean to tell me Big Dave's too busy to spend time with his sons? Nephews 
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Aug 18, 2017 03:43
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did inokiism kill noah now too? anyway akiyama is in play if he saves all japan. like danged gedo is gonna get in at this rate
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Aug 18, 2017 03:44
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GoutPatrol posted:Nagata, Tenzan, Kojima, Akiyama, KENTA, Marufuji are never going in because they are blamed, when it was all that dang Inoki's fault. NJPW going down in flames only helped Akiyama and Marufuji. They were champions of the #1 group in Japan because of it.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:13
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Nah, Noah died cause they failed to make any new draws besides Kobashi, Misawa and Akiyama. KENTA/Marafuji just never got put over to be at there level so when those guys couldn't go/died welp
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Aug 18, 2017 04:14
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NOAH died because of Ms Misawa's involvement with the Yakuza. Getting publically outed is a death kiss in business. They were well on track to establishing new aces but when the company went under AJPW picked up some and got wrapped up in that whole fiasco.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:23
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So I've heard Inoki and Inoki-ism mentioned a few times, wasn't Inoki like, this incredible figure in Japanese wrestling? Why are there negative connotations with him? (and should I be asking this in the wrestling questions thread instead)
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Aug 18, 2017 04:33
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VJeff posted:So I've heard Inoki and Inoki-ism mentioned a few times, wasn't Inoki like, this incredible figure in Japanese wrestling? Why are there negative connotations with him? Yes he is, the negative connotations is that MMA got hot and he started putting his top stars into MMA matches where they all got owned pretty bad.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:48
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VJeff posted:So I've heard Inoki and Inoki-ism mentioned a few times, wasn't Inoki like, this incredible figure in Japanese wrestling? Why are there negative connotations with him? from what I understand (no expert over here) inoki, later in his management career wanted njpw stars to be accepted as real fighters so he had them trained in mma and made them wrestle that style and compete in shoot fights. the wrestlers obviously lost these fights en masse and the company became kind of a joke for trying to compete in "real sports". that's why nagata is a big star with a tainted reputation, yeah he's a great wrestler, but he was in this point when inoki was trying to create puro wrestlers who could fight martial arts expert but couldn't, so he looked like a drat fool earlier in his career.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:54
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algebra testes posted:Yes he is, the negative connotations is that MMA got hot and he started putting his top stars into MMA matches where they all got owned pretty bad. And kept pushing shooters or guys who seemed like shooters over his stars in worked matches.
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Aug 18, 2017 05:17
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not only that, but inoki brought in real mma wrestlers and had them win titles, most were god awful and inoki himself even put himself in some of the earlier matches to stroke his ego, but those were when they were work mma matches that sucked. the MMA wrestlers that became IWGP champions lwere Tadao Yasuda, Kazuyuki Fujita, and Bob Sapp. The former of two are not brought up during the parade of champions videos. Fujita's matches aren't even on NJPW World. MRT beat me to it but i elaborated a bit more
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Aug 18, 2017 05:24
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At least he gave us Bob Sapp 
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Aug 18, 2017 05:32
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Before I heard of Inoki-ism, I've always wondered how the hell Josh Barnett of all people ended up main-eventing a Tokyo Dome show. Now it all makes sense.
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Aug 18, 2017 05:43
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bob sapp is cool and i am glad he played inoki for a sucker
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Aug 18, 2017 06:03
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Inoki in many ways was as succesful and crazy as Vince was/is he just never got a chance for second act to save the company like Vince did with Austin (Which probably was for the best cause New Japan was probably headed for major ruin if Inoki kept running it) God a full Inoki bio would be great Edit: Wasn't the WWE looking at signing Sapp during his hey day?
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Aug 18, 2017 06:04
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VJeff posted:So I've heard Inoki and Inoki-ism mentioned a few times, wasn't Inoki like, this incredible figure in Japanese wrestling? Why are there negative connotations with him? imagine if WWE stuck with Brawl For All and tried to make it a long term thing
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Aug 18, 2017 06:26
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exploded mummy posted:imagine if WWE stuck with Brawl For All and tried to make it a long term thing who would be more likely for iwgp champ, Bart Gunn or butterbean
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Aug 18, 2017 06:53
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VJeff posted:So I've heard Inoki and Inoki-ism mentioned a few times, wasn't Inoki like, this incredible figure in Japanese wrestling? Why are there negative connotations with him? This is from a post i made on the F4W board a couple months ago about how Inoki totally killed the business in the early 2000s. It is very much a dave-style ramble. quote:A host of things, including the slow death of the entire industry in japan as mainstream entertainment in some ways. Saying "New Japan was really bad here" does not even go into the needed detail that was happening in every promotion. The decline really started in the late 90s through a combination of multiple things. The 97 asian financial crisis really led to the bloom being off the rose on the Japanese economy. The utter collapse of the japanese real estate market, that was barely eeking by after the earth-shattering 89 crisis, ate up alot of the capital of several promoters and I believe led to the death of All Japan women. This is something that Japan has never really recovered from and it is only getting worse with the demographic transition inside the country. Wages have been stagnant taking into account cost of living increases inside the country for 30 years, that will hurt any economy (see USA, the for more examples.) In Taiwan where I am now, the people born after 1980 are called "strawberry children," meaning that kids born after the economic boom inside each country just don't have the same work ethic of the previous generation and arrogant about what working conditions should be. The same opinion is pretty common in Japan as well and is really the same thing as "lazy millenials!" found around the internet. I don't want to get into a treatise on how the economic conditions inside east asia could have grave consequences and be used as a predictor for future economic growth around the world, but in general certain sectors of the economy have never recovered and that also could hurt pro wrestling. tldr, the Inoki stuff was just the straw that broke the camel's back. You can see the cracks starting in the late 90s due to economic pressure and the moving of TV timeslots.
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Aug 18, 2017 07:07
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That was a really good read and goes into a lot of detail I didn't know, thanks 
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Aug 18, 2017 08:40
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You nailed the economic/demographic issues, and they're not to be underestimated. The "bubble era" ended in the late 1980s technically, but the echo lasted through the mid-90s. And the 1997 crash was the final nail. Meanwhile, the previous generation looooved wrestling (including the guys with money or control of money), but the next generation wasn't allowed to grow. Add that to bad booking and promoting and you can see how Inoki almost killed his creation. From the view of somebody living here and gathering anecdotes and snippets through everyday life, the only wrestling thing I saw immediately after I moved to Japan in 2011 was Kobashi's retirement. But the last couple years, NJPW stars have been more and more out there - on TV and in pop culture. That TV show clip of the female comedian impersonating EVIL would not have happened even five years ago, both through "fewer people liked wrestling" and "wrestling wasn't in the zeitgeist." We're in a great time for Japanese wrestling.
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Aug 18, 2017 11:13
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Lion's Pride goes over Inokism more in depth and NJPW's history overall. https://www.amazon.com/Lions-Pride-Turbulent-History-Wrestling/dp/4990865812
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Aug 18, 2017 12:26
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My friend's been showing me NJPW matches and so many are great, but I have to ask. Does the DVD guy who RVDs himself and shrugs have a single legal attack? What's his finisher? He's hilarious I mean Okada and Omega and Naito and others are obviously amazing but that guy (Yano I think?) was such a great change of pace.
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Aug 18, 2017 13:35
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