Synths and Synthesis MkII: All gear is shit, Hail Satan

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No More Drake > Musician's Lounge > Synths and Synthesis MkII: All gear is shit, Hail Satan

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MockingQuantum: Jan 20, 2012

Laserjet 4P posted:

In that case get an MPC or Elektron Digitakt and load it up with classic drum sounds. Don't chase those vintage machines separately unless your wallet likes to be punished. Don't get lots of cheap stuff unless your workflow likes to be punished. Also, there's an Electribe which can loads samples.

Choose whatever you can afford and if the answer is both, choose that which has the least idiotic back-asswards way of transfering/remembering files.

It's great if you can just dump those sounds in some kind of persistent memory so that next time you switch it on it knows where you left off. The MPC1000 had 16 megabytes of flash memory for that, that's space enough for lots of drumkits.

This this this. I haven't put hands on a Digitakt yet, but as someone who owns some other Elektron gear, I would recommend trying it out before you buy if that's something that piques your interest. Elektron makes some drat good machines, but they have a bit of a learning curve. Once you're past that learning curve I think they feel pretty natural to use.

# ? Aug 17, 2017 18:18

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# ? May 28, 2024 23:12

stillvisions: Oct 15, 2014; I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.

So I gave in to curiosity and tossed some money out for the Deadmau5 masterclass thingy. Also been trying to get more mileage out of incorporating Live with my hardware stuff and figured it'd be a good kick in the butt to get using Live again. Also I've got vacation coming up and need to stop buying gear, so something to focus me on using stuff I already have seems like a good idea.

Plan is to burn through the videos as background, and then try and go back through the "exercise books". I'm hoping this is somewhat better than those 1980's VHS "*insert celebrity here* teaches you *insert skill here*" videos but we'll see. Hopefully it's not "now this is a sequencer, and this is a sine wave" level, but I can't imagine them having enough money to pay him to talk about that stuff.

I'll post a review once I've given it a watch.

# ? Aug 17, 2017 19:26

MrSargent: Dec 23, 2003; Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Jimmy T.

stillvisions posted:

So I gave in to curiosity and tossed some money out for the Deadmau5 masterclass thingy. Also been trying to get more mileage out of incorporating Live with my hardware stuff and figured it'd be a good kick in the butt to get using Live again. Also I've got vacation coming up and need to stop buying gear, so something to focus me on using stuff I already have seems like a good idea.

Plan is to burn through the videos as background, and then try and go back through the "exercise books". I'm hoping this is somewhat better than those 1980's VHS "*insert celebrity here* teaches you *insert skill here*" videos but we'll see. Hopefully it's not "now this is a sequencer, and this is a sine wave" level, but I can't imagine them having enough money to pay him to talk about that stuff.

I'll post a review once I've given it a watch.

I thought the MasterClass was great for the cost. It is meant for beginner to intermediate levels but I still felt like I learned a lot of really great stuff. Deadmau5 also adds some color as an instructor which makes watching the videos feel a lot less boring.

# ? Aug 17, 2017 19:33

Oldstench: Jun 29, 2007; Let's talk about where you're going.

Startyde posted:

This times a million. Don't relive the bad old days, there really isn't any need.

*Eyes my MD-UW and TM-1*
*sighs*

# ? Aug 17, 2017 19:49

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

Kilometers Davis posted:

I wish I didn't find software mind numbingly boring and uninspiring

the only way i use a computer in my music is by pointing my browser to youtubes i wanna remix lol

hardware the hard way!

# ? Aug 17, 2017 20:57

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

Laserjet 4P posted:

In that case get an MPC or Elektron Digitakt and load it up with classic drum sounds. Don't chase those vintage machines separately unless your wallet likes to be punished. Don't get lots of cheap stuff unless your workflow likes to be punished. Also, there's an Electribe which can loads samples.

at least look at the tr-08/09, a VA that you can actually play your sounds on def has a diff appeal than a sample based machine and its worth checkin out imo

# ? Aug 17, 2017 20:58

Kilometers Davis: Jul 9, 2007; They begin again

Just sucks because I don't care about playing live I want to record. Software is great for that but zzzzzz uninspiring but hardware is expensive and the older stuff has quirks and upkeep issues I don't want to bother with. All gear is poo poo.

# ? Aug 17, 2017 21:30

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

dont get gear dummy, get *instruments*
(yeah its basically just an attitude adjustment but one that electronic musicians so often seem to find alien)

# ? Aug 17, 2017 22:02

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I'm perfectly fine with software, because I have to be, but I also really enjoy the saving and loading of presets on versions of gear I otherwise wouldn't be able to do that with, let alone use (Mellotron, ImpOscar, etc) :shobon:

# ? Aug 17, 2017 22:14

Startyde: Apr 19, 2007; come post with us, forever and ever and ever

Oldstench posted:

*Eyes my MD-UW and TM-1*
*sighs*

I absolutely count that poo poo. It's 100% to save costs and it's shameful. Same bullshit with akai putting USB1 on the MPC1k.
They're not even consistent, oktatrack would be a great sampler/mangler/editor but it can't dump SDS back to the MD :wtc:

But yea I keep an old 486 for epsdisk, an old PowerBook for Galaxy and M, I had built out an LCII to run the editor for my K150FS. it's dumb, im dumb

# ? Aug 17, 2017 22:19

Laserjet 4P: Mar 28, 2005; What does it mean?; Fun Shoe

mrbradlymrmartin posted:

at least look at the tr-08/09, a VA that you can actually play your sounds on def has a diff appeal than a sample based machine and its worth checkin out imo

Or a TR8. Lots of people got this when it was released, then they realized they weren't Jeff "Goddamn Legend" Mills, and basically it turned into an expensive paperweight, so the price is secondhand what the TR08/TR09 go for new.

Also has really neato TR707 sounds for a few bucks more (and if you care about that, the TR606, but personally I don't)

# ? Aug 17, 2017 22:57

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'm perfectly fine with software, because I have to be, but I also really enjoy the saving and loading of presets on versions of gear I otherwise wouldn't be able to do that with, let alone use (Mellotron, ImpOscar, etc)

i hate presets and dont like playing instruments that have any, which is why im thinking about changin my er-1 for a tr-08/09

programmed patterns is one thing but when the knobs are lying to me it just throws me off my groove

software def can be played as an iinstrument too, and its prob a lesson software folks need even more -- these are instruments we are playing, not just gear we are operating

# ? Aug 17, 2017 22:58

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

Laserjet 4P posted:

Or a TR8. Lots of people got this when it was released, then they realized they weren't Jeff "Goddamn Legend" Mills, and basically it turned into an expensive paperweight, so the price is secondhand what the TR08/TR09 go for new.

Also has really neato TR707 sounds for a few bucks more (and if you care about that, the TR606, but personally I don't)

the 08/09 run on batteries and have knobs that never lie :shrug:

its def a personal taste issue but hooooly poo poo the tb-03 was a revelation, being able to carry it around and play without any cords at all

if i had one of the boutique drum machines, a single midi cable would be all id need to plug in to make what other people would even recognize as actual music

i got a pignose and i wanna get a battery pack for my euro, but sheer portable ease of the boutiques is a relatively new factor that should not be overlooked

# ? Aug 17, 2017 23:00

Clavavisage: Nov 12, 2011

Startyde posted:

But yea I keep an old 486 for epsdisk, an old PowerBook for Galaxy and M, I had built out an LCII to run the editor for my K150FS. it's dumb, im dumb

ur a fuckin madman, i atleast gutted my vp9000 to use an SD card

# ? Aug 18, 2017 00:52

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Think we'll ever see dedicated hardware controllers for advanced VST synths? Synths like Serum or Massive seem popular enough that combined with the growing interest in physical controls w/ 1-to-1 (or close) mapping there could be enough demand. I know this has been done in the past w/ stuff like the X-Station being able to be dedicated V-station controller and the MS-20 MIDI controller, but these are basic subtractive synths that are straightforward to map to hardware. I'm guessing a well done Serum or Massive controller would require too many expensive displays to produce at a price that would actually sell well.

# ? Aug 18, 2017 01:06

Laserjet 4P: Mar 28, 2005; What does it mean?; Fun Shoe

http://sound-force.nl/ and various other attemps basically say no and that's even for simple synths.

If there's a controller for Serum, chances are that you can't use that surface for anything else, and if you can, it's probably so generic that it's not dedicated anymore.

You can't even put in a small computer running Serum so it can be standalone, because there's no way whatsoever that you can get the price low enough.

Dumping Serum into a Waldorf Q style synthesizer would be a better option, but in that case - why bother if you can just use the plugin? I think in this case only Roland has a somewhat decent shot at this with the plugout system.

If Serum didn't exist yet as a plugin but did appear as a Q-style synth first, it'd be expensive but people would be enough in awe of it that they'd buy it because it's of course ridiculously capable. But then it'd probably have to run on ARM first.

# ? Aug 18, 2017 01:37

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

mrbradlymrmartin posted:

software def can be played as an iinstrument too, and its prob a lesson software folks need even more -- these are instruments we are playing, not just gear we are operating

This is basically my mantra, even though I'm pretty much all software; I look at synths (hardware and software) as instruments. . :toot:

# ? Aug 18, 2017 02:04

Clavavisage: Nov 12, 2011

Splinter posted:

Think we'll ever see dedicated hardware controllers for advanced VST synths? Synths like Serum or Massive seem popular enough that combined with the growing interest in physical controls w/ 1-to-1 (or close) mapping there could be enough demand. I know this has been done in the past w/ stuff like the X-Station being able to be dedicated V-station controller and the MS-20 MIDI controller, but these are basic subtractive synths that are straightforward to map to hardware. I'm guessing a well done Serum or Massive controller would require too many expensive displays to produce at a price that would actually sell well.

# ? Aug 18, 2017 02:29

Plavski: Feb 1, 2006; I could be a revolutionary

Laserjet 4P posted:

http://sound-force.nl/ and various other attemps basically say no and that's even for simple synths.

If there's a controller for Serum, chances are that you can't use that surface for anything else, and if you can, it's probably so generic that it's not dedicated anymore.

You can't even put in a small computer running Serum so it can be standalone, because there's no way whatsoever that you can get the price low enough.

Dumping Serum into a Waldorf Q style synthesizer would be a better option, but in that case - why bother if you can just use the plugin? I think in this case only Roland has a somewhat decent shot at this with the plugout system.

If Serum didn't exist yet as a plugin but did appear as a Q-style synth first, it'd be expensive but people would be enough in awe of it that they'd buy it because it's of course ridiculously capable. But then it'd probably have to run on ARM first.

https://twitter.com/deadmau5/status/895129940827537408

# ? Aug 18, 2017 08:10

cubicle gangster: Jun 26, 2005; magda, make the tea

Plavski posted:

https://twitter.com/deadmau5/status/895129940827537408

uhh this gives me an idea...!

# ? Aug 18, 2017 19:34

Tan Dumplord: Mar 9, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

I find it strange that an essential modular component is not VCAs with gain over 0dB, and more specifically level shifters between audio, envelope, and CV ranges. The number of times I have needed to actually amplify a signal has been numerous, and my only options are uVCA's exponential response, which are normally accounted for.

As an example, I have a limiter patch that feeds back mix output through a rectifier and into Maths ch1 signal in whose inverted output is added to ch2 positive offset and minimumed with the mix level. (P.S.: I get a lot more mileage from Kinks than I used to.)

My primary problem with flexibility of the patch is that I can't push Maths ch1 high enough due to the level of the audio in.

Tell me there's something obvious that I'm missing. What do you use for level shifting?

# ? Aug 19, 2017 04:38

JamesKPolk: Apr 9, 2009

My feet are still pretty dry but I haven't had that experience - all the low end dual VCAs I'm looking at are switchable exponential/linear and go to 2x gain: Noise Reap's, Synthrotek's, and Doepfer's (post CEM3360-based design, at least).

And I feel like most of the cascading 4x VCAs from the bigger names will go even higher in the one and out the four.

For a pushing Maths input, could you use a DC offset or does it not respond the right way? That would open up CV offset mixers too.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 04:49

j.peeba: Oct 25, 2010; Almost Human; Nap Ghost

sliderule posted:

I find it strange that an essential modular component is not VCAs with gain over 0dB, and more specifically level shifters between audio, envelope, and CV ranges. The number of times I have needed to actually amplify a signal has been numerous, and my only options are uVCA's exponential response, which are normally accounted for.

As an example, I have a limiter patch that feeds back mix output through a rectifier and into Maths ch1 signal in whose inverted output is added to ch2 positive offset and minimumed with the mix level. (P.S.: I get a lot more mileage from Kinks than I used to.)

My primary problem with flexibility of the patch is that I can't push Maths ch1 high enough due to the level of the audio in.

Tell me there's something obvious that I'm missing. What do you use for level shifting?

It definitely feels like there should be a more elegant solution out there but you could get an amplifier module like Doepfer A-183-3

edit: do you have an oscilloscope? I have a super cheap digital one from Aliexpress that is invaluable when doing more precise stuff with CVs.

j.peeba fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Aug 19, 2017

# ? Aug 19, 2017 04:58

Tan Dumplord: Mar 9, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

JamesKPolk posted:

My feet are still pretty dry but I haven't had that experience - all the low end dual VCAs I'm looking at are switchable exponential/linear and go to 2x gain: Noise Reap's, Synthrotek's, and Doepfer's (post CEM3360-based design, at least).

And I feel like most of the cascading 4x VCAs from the bigger names will go even higher in the one and out the four.

For a pushing Maths input, could you use a DC offset or does it not respond the right way? That would open up CV offset mixers too.

A DC offset is in play, but my problem comes from the range of ch1's effect on the sum port.

j.peeba posted:

It definitely feels like there should be a more elegant solution out there but you could get an amplifier module like Doepfer A-183-3

edit: do you have an oscilloscope? I have a super cheap digital one from Aliexpress that is invaluable when doing more precise stuff with CVs.

Yes, but I can eyeball what's going on with ch1's full value LED and the Kinks' Sign and Logic LEDs.

If there's no good solution out there, I can start designing a solution and DIY myself something up -- something much denser than that A-183-3. I'm all about density. Maybe I'll just modify the much-underutilized Sputnik Valve Multiplier... unless I'd get run out of the thread for heresy.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 05:36

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

sliderule posted:

I find it strange that an essential modular component is not VCAs with gain over 0dB, and more specifically level shifters between audio, envelope, and CV ranges. The number of times I have needed to actually amplify a signal has been numerous, and my only options are uVCA's exponential response, which are normally accounted for.

As an example, I have a limiter patch that feeds back mix output through a rectifier and into Maths ch1 signal in whose inverted output is added to ch2 positive offset and minimumed with the mix level. (P.S.: I get a lot more mileage from Kinks than I used to.)

My primary problem with flexibility of the patch is that I can't push Maths ch1 high enough due to the level of the audio in.

Tell me there's something obvious that I'm missing. What do you use for level shifting?

PTG

holy gently caress this thing makes maths look simple af but drat if it dont do it right -- ungodly gain on the preamp and a good vca in each channel too, plus vactrol fun

and ears, triatt, and the doepfer 4x4 do most of the rest

i did just put the atoner back in last night, and it has a whole lotta gain on the cv mix channels so ill see . . .

hey any tips out there on phonogene vs echophon vs dld? i rly dont wanna be fukken around with sd cards inside the rack but im

# ? Aug 19, 2017 05:53

Quincy Smallvoice: Mar 18, 2006; Bitches leave

Who's got a digitakt? I finally found one and ordered mine, it should arrive next week.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:39

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

Quincy Smallvoice posted:

Who's got a digitakt? I finally found one and ordered mine, it should arrive next week.

i have no takt at all fukk you very much :colbert:

eager to hear what u think about it and how it plays -- what the octatrack does is real nifty but after reading the manual using one seems decidedly buzzicidal

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:45

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

Quincy Smallvoice posted:

Who's got a digitakt? I finally found one and ordered mine, it should arrive next week.

I ordered mine from Guitar Center during their sale three weeks ago but it's still back-ordered :smith:

I got it for $100 off, though, so I don't mind waiting

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:47

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Quincy Smallvoice posted:

Who's got a digitakt? I finally found one and ordered mine, it should arrive next week.

I've had one for two weeks, but due to a horrific work schedule lets call it one.

I was a big proponent of the volca sample and the digitakt is basically it on steroids with the ability to sequence the hell out of my other stuff. Easy as hell to sample/use to the point where I've only had to look up how to do a few things and the only thing that's on my wishlist for more features is another LFO per track as well as a compressor.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 23:06

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

Any thoughts on the Arturia Keystep? I need a portable controller for my SE-02, and unfortunately my Korg Microkey only has USB-out.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:13

hug a mexican: Jul 8, 2010

curried lamb of God posted:

Any thoughts on the Arturia Keystep? I need a portable controller for my SE-02, and unfortunately my Korg Microkey only has USB-out.

it's good

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:29

hug a mexican: Jul 8, 2010

elaborating it does sequencing good and also you can fart out two midi channels simultaneously and also arp and velocity and polyphony and basically it's a steal for what $100 or whatever it goes for whereever you are

i also assume it will run off a phone charger>usb cord but haven't had any reason to try

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:31

SpaceGoatFarts: Jan 5, 2010; sic transit gloria mundi; Nap Ghost

It does indeed

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:36

stillvisions: Oct 15, 2014; I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.

Started getting emails from Soma labs - looks like my number has come up to get one of those LYRA-8 monstrosities. I look forward to making hideous whale sounds with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQGkPufZHs gonna be terrible/awesome.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 18:05

byob historian: Nov 5, 2008; I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

glad to hear the thoughts on the keystep, have been considering one as an upgrade to my beatstep og, having more than an eleventh available at once seems handy, and i wanna get a battery pack for my modular and maybe a tr-08 to go with my tb-03

speaking of the tr-08, may i ask yalls thoughts on that? if i were looking for an original machine id lean 909 and always have, but the 08 doesnt look as cramped in photos. the tb-03's the only boutique ive played and the only one bigger than the original model, so obv its roomy as hell but id kinda like to have em both to be a band in a bag or like, portable battery powered mayhem if i bring my modular, pignose, and arturia *step :allears:

tia

deuces everybody say goodbye to the sun!

# ? Aug 21, 2017 18:38

JamesKPolk: Apr 9, 2009

Here's what I didn't like about the keystep: the keys feel really cramped. I prefer the action of MS-20 minis and Microbrutes, personally (as far as mini keys go). Rough for doing anything polyphonic. It didn't feel significantly better put together than the mini/micro (my microbrute's bottom plate was corroding after 3 years and 0 gigging) but at that price maybe that's fine. The sliders aren't really that playable ime. It dumps a ton of oscillating noise on guitar pedals that it shares a daisy chain with.

Good feature list though.

Are you sure the tb-03 is bigger? My 606 is slightly bigger than my jx-03 and I thought those things were the same chassis as the other things.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 20:18

hug a mexican: Jul 8, 2010

i felt the opposite, found the keystep much more playable than the mini-20 and microbrute but ymmv i guess

# ? Aug 21, 2017 21:22

loga mira: Feb 16, 2011; WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

I'm using the Keystep mainly for Beatstep Pro input, and it's nice to have a small controller around, for iPad synths for example. I thought I'd be using it for poly sequencing since the BSP synth channels are mono, but as it turns out I rarely have the need to do that. Would be nice if it had a no quantization mode. The sequencer is a bit more advanced than most keyboard sequencers, but it's still very basic.

The keys are odd at first but you get used to them.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 22:10