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Can you really save much with the email negotiations vs. just using Costco auto sales or similar systems?
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Aug 17, 2017 23:52
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n8r posted:Can you really save much with the email negotiations vs. just using Costco auto sales or similar systems? It's not the money, it's the hassle. If you know what you want, there's no point in going through six layers of bureaucracy to get to somebody who can OK the sale.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:55
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n8r posted:Can you really save much with the email negotiations vs. just using Costco auto sales or similar systems? Costco and similar systems are a way to trade potential savings for convenience (like was mentioned). Costco etc doesn't usually have the best price, but you certainly don't have to gently caress around in order to get it. Going all by email would be a way to get more savings while still being convenient with you as the buyer doing a bit more work. When a dealer insists that you come in they are doing it because their tactics are at their most powerful.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:Two problems here: I'm not saying that's what I do or what my dealership does. I'm saying that's the reasoning as to why the poster I quoted was having a hard time getting pricing via email. With my dealership the BDC rep (think of them as receptionist/front desk person) will pass along the info of the customer to either a sales manager or salesperson to work out a deal over the phone/email if that's how they want to do it. Some businesses are good some businesses are bad. Dealerships are often single business entities so there is a lot of variability to how they are run. Even when they are part of a large auto group one showroom run by one GSM may differ in processes from another.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:07
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n8r posted:Can you really save much with the email negotiations vs. just using Costco auto sales or similar systems? Depends. In demand vehicles, Costco might get you a slightly better deal. You can usually do better on your own. When I used Costco years ago the Costco price was invoice + 500 dollars. I don't know why you guys have such issues buying cars. The last 4 brand new cars I bought, I did my homework, knew what a fair price was and told the dealer that was what I would pay. The either agreed, or I left. I haven't spent more than 2 hours buying a car in the last 5 years. First I go down in person to show I'm serious. Email and phone calls are a waste of everyone's loving time. Dealer websites are pretty accurate regarding inventory. I bought my 2011 Fusion Sport in 5 minutes. I went to the dealer and stood next to the car on the lot. A guy named Cody came up and said Hi. I said "The sign says 5,000 off all Fusions, I'll buy this car right now for 5,000 off MSRP". He came back 3 minutes later and said we had a deal. Easy. I'm pretty sure the 5K didn't apply to Sport trim Fusions, but they sold it. I've bought 4 cars from Cody total so far. I don't waste his time, he doesn't waste mine.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:49
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skipdogg posted:Depends. In demand vehicles, Costco might get you a slightly better deal. You can usually do better on your own. When I used Costco years ago the Costco price was invoice + 500 dollars. Considering you just shoved email and phone buying right out of the way even though vast untold amounts of business and products costing way more than what a car does is done entirely over email and phone calls I'm not sure I should trust your authority on the proper way to buy a car Mr. skipdogg
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Aug 18, 2017 01:37
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You can't email a car lol.
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Aug 18, 2017 01:40
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euphronius posted:You can't email a car lol. I've bought two cars from other nations using nothing but email 
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Aug 18, 2017 01:41
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KakerMix posted:Considering you just shoved email and phone buying right out of the way even though vast untold amounts of business and products costing way more than what a car does is done entirely over email and phone calls I'm not sure I should trust your authority on the proper way to buy a car Mr. skipdogg But we're all doing it wrong apparently, all of us.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:07
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KakerMix posted:Considering you just shoved email and phone buying right out of the way even though vast untold amounts of business and products costing way more than what a car does is done entirely over email and phone calls I'm not sure I should trust your authority on the proper way to buy a car Mr. skipdogg I didn't shove it out of the way. I said "Email and phone calls are a waste of everyone's loving time." Which I believe they are. It shows no intent to actually purchase the car no matter what you say in your email. I bet an average dealer gets 30 emails a day with people "ready to buy right now if you give me the best price". I wonder how many of those emails translate to sales. Probably not many. If I'm a car salesman do I want to waste my time answering emails that hardly ever convert to sales, or do I want to deal with the guy with a down payment check and preapproved financing in hand? Do your homework, know what a fair price for the car is, go down to the dealership that has the car you want and make an offer. They accept and you buy the car, or you leave. I'm not going to waste several days of my time emailing the 7 Ford dealers in my town and dealing with 21 year old dipshit appointment setters that reply to those emails to save a couple hundred dollars. This thread has already hashed out car buying isn't really analogous to buying almost anything else so I'm not sure what you're getting at with your "vast untold amounts" line. Yeah, I've done large purchases over the phone and email as well, it works well for a lot of things, doesn't work well for buying a car in my experience I've bought a fair number of cars from dealerships in my life, this is what works for me. You can take my advice or not, doesn't matter to me.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:12
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skipdogg posted:I didn't shove it out of the way. I said "Email and phone calls are a waste of everyone's loving time." Which I believe they are. It shows no intent to actually purchase the car no matter what you say in your email. I bet an average dealer gets 30 emails a day with people "ready to buy right now if you give me the best price". I wonder how many of those emails translate to sales. Probably not many. If I'm a car salesman do I want to waste my time answering emails that hardly ever convert to sales, or do I want to deal with the guy with a down payment check and preapproved financing in hand? Nobody was looking for advice though, we were all talking about how we feel about dealerships and what dealing with them is like for each of us. You did too but also laid down some harsh truths about emails and phone calls being a waste of time which is why I pointed it out. Like you didn't even bother being a part of the (very one sided  ) conversation you instead dad'd it up and let everyone know how you are supposed to do it. You say phone calls and emails are a waste of time, I disagree.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:19
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I've bought cars a few time almost exclusively over email. It is basically required if you ever want to shop outside of your immediate vicinity. If a dealer gets 30 emails a day that say "I'll buy this car at this price right now" and they don't respond to any they sell 0 cars. If they respond to all of them and only 10% are sincere they've sold three cars. It's not like responding with a "yes, that works" or a "sorry, we can't sell at that price" takes a tremendous amount of time.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:29
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But who talks on the phone or sends emails to get anything done these days, that's ridiculous. I just go straight to the nearest Amazon warehouse 40 miles away to buy my goods, they look at me like I'm an idiot, but at least I'm not wasting anyone's time.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:35
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Guinness posted:I know dealers need to make a profit. I just don't want to waste any goddamn time getting jerked around in the sales office. I've already told you exactly what I want, just tell me exactly what you'll sell it for. If we agree, I give you money and you give me a car. That's all there is to it. Anything more than that is fluff and bullshit.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:42
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I loving hate negotiating prices. Tell me how much money something costs and if I don't like it I don't buy it. I have a coworker that haggles at places that I'd never even consider and it works for him all the time. He spent like 8 hours at a car dealer one time negotiating the price on a truck. It's just way more effort than I want to put into buying stupid poo poo. I'll also pay extra for convenience without question. I payed around $100 more for a gun in a brick and mortar store yesterday than it would have cost online because I didn't want to wait for shipping and having to dick with picking it up at some dude's house at a time convenient for both of us. I'm willing to do the same with almost anything I buy within reason too.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:10
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bull3964 posted:if that's the prevailing attitude, why are getting hard numbers so difficult and time consuming? This was basically my experience. The dealer I bought my last Silverado from called me asking if I would trade it in. I gave them a list of vehicles I'd be interested in, specific vehicles from their website, and asked for quotes. "Well why don't you just come in" Nope, I told you exactly what I wanted, sent you photos of my vehicle, and let you know I'm ready to spend the money. Give me a loving quote! After 3 days of emailing them back and forth, getting passed around sales people, still with zero quotes and getting nowhere I ended up buying from another dealership because of their bullshit. I should add, the last 3 cars I've owned before my last truck were all purchased online sight unseen. heated game moment fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 04:30
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euphronius posted:You can't email a car lol. You wouldn't download a CAR, would you? What stand-up comedian was that who first had the bit about that FBI movie piracy warning and was like yeah, if I saw a Ferrari on the street and all I had to do was push a button to drive off in a copy of that Ferrari, while the original still sat there untouched, why wouldn't I? Also, I've seen screencaps of this survey before but without some of the helpful images, so here's a link to a customer survey Kia sent out (I'm assuming in America based on the prices) with questions about what you would pay for what options on the Stinger. http://imgur.com/a/FXzue
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Aug 18, 2017 16:08
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davebo posted:Also, I've seen screencaps of this survey before but without some of the helpful images, so here's a link to a customer survey Kia sent out (I'm assuming in America based on the prices) with questions about what you would pay for what options on the Stinger.  moment.
Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 18:15
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Dislike button posted:Nope, I told you exactly what I wanted, sent you photos of my vehicle, and let you know I'm ready to spend the money. Give me a loving quote! It's really easy to assess a trade in and make sure it hasn't had body work with emailed over pictures. 
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Aug 18, 2017 21:27
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Powershift posted:My local ford dealership has a stupid loving coffee shop in it. That's how you know how efficient their service department is. Galpin?
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Aug 18, 2017 21:37
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tijag posted:Galpin? no, it's one of two ford dealerships in a city of 50,000 people, so a market maybe 1/100th the size?
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Aug 18, 2017 21:41
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Emailing dealerships is all about weeding out the ones that will try to bullshit you. The ones that actually send you the price (even if it's not the best) pass the test. The ones that ignore you and just tell you to come on in are tossed in the trash. I strayed from this method once and dropped into a dealership cold with the intention of negotiating there and was met with aggressive salespeople who literally insulted me. Like I think they had read that book about "negging" women and were trying to sell cars the same way. Here are a couple choice excerpts: *5 minutes into comparing 2 similar models* Him: "Well which do you like?" Me: "I don't know, hard to decide after only 5 minutes, I kinda need to take a closer look" Him: "It's real easy man, it's not hard. Just tell me which one you like better??" Me: "Not really, for $25k it's not that easy" Him: "No man that's nothing, I just bought a $150k car right off the lot, didn't have to think about it, no problem" Me: "Uh ok" *Discussing differences in driver feel between models* Him: "Ok so if I gave you a choice between these two for free, which would you choose?" Me: "Well I don't know, this one drives like this but that one drives like that, I'm not sure which I prefer yet" Him: (clearly doesn't understand how each model feels to drive) "Come on it's really easy, what's the problem? So you're saying you would pick this one that $5k cheaper even though they're both free??" *Negotiating price* Me: "I don't know, these numbers don't really work out for me, I won't be able to put away money every month" Him: "Well have you tried making more money?" Me:  *Still negotiating price* Me: (something about how the car loses value immediately after leaving the lot, I forgot the exact conversation leading up to this) Him: "No man cars don't lose value off the lot when you buy at MSRP" Every time I do the email method, I get straight shooters that make the process easy. I'm never going to doubt it again.
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Aug 18, 2017 23:03
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Deteriorata posted:If somebody cared enough, the laws could be changed to make this possible. Auto makers have a lot of political clout. The fact that it isn't happening suggests that they've run the numbers and it's not worth it to them. Dealers, not OEMs.
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Aug 19, 2017 02:06
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KakerMix posted:Besides Tesla, a very real and actual car manufacturer right now that is trying to sell directly to consumers and can't. If I completely missed the point then you've totally dodged one just the same. No, he's wrong. State dealership laws have handcuffed the OEMs they would love to be able to sell direct to consumers, and offer things like OTA updates. Dealership protectionism laws (which date back decades) make that illegal.
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Aug 19, 2017 02:08
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Car dealers usually run state government .
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Aug 19, 2017 02:10
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drgitlin posted:No, he's wrong. State dealership laws have handcuffed the OEMs they would love to be able to sell direct to consumers, and offer things like OTA updates. Dealership protectionism laws (which date back decades) make that illegal. No, that's not the point I was making. OEMs could get the laws changed if they wanted to. The dealership protection laws continue to exist partly because the OEMs support them. Dealers, of course, hugely support them - but the OEMs do, too. There are political and economic reasons that OEMs don't want to gently caress over their dealership networks, but if OEMs really wanted to sell direct to the consumer they'd figure out a way to make it happen with or without the dealers' consent. I'm also convinced that Tesla's model is not sustainable and they'll be selling through dealers eventually as well.
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Aug 19, 2017 02:17
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KakerMix posted:Still not seeing why we can't just also sell cars bulk-style online or in a warhouse big-box type setting. Here is a price, here is the car, you want it in white? Cool. Financing? Nice. Ok how about extended warranty? Sure sure. Total comes to X. Cash? Check? Alright now give me a moment to print out your receipt, title and temp tags and you'll be on your way.
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Aug 19, 2017 02:38
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To contribute to dealer chat, one in my neck of the woods is being charged with felony theft for charging people for tax/title and never paying it to the state/county
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Aug 19, 2017 02:51
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Deteriorata posted:No, that's not the point I was making. OEMs could get the laws changed if they wanted to. The dealership protection laws continue to exist partly because the OEMs support them. Dealers, of course, hugely support them - but the OEMs do, too. I think you're overstating the influence the automakers have here. They're worried about trying to get emissions restrictions reduced, they're not going to take on the massive legal lobby of their true customers.
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Aug 19, 2017 03:14
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IOwnCalculus posted:I think you're overstating the influence the automakers have here. They're worried about trying to get emissions restrictions reduced, they're not going to take on the massive legal lobby of their true customers. Possibly, but it's not something I'm going to poo poo up the thread arguing about anymore.
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Aug 19, 2017 03:16
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Hikaki posted:"Well have you tried making more money?" Story of my life
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Aug 19, 2017 04:39
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kill me now posted:It's really easy to assess a trade in and make sure it hasn't had body work with emailed over pictures. yeah dude, i totally wasnt going to let them inspect it in person either.  I take it you've never bought a car over the internet before, but it's ok, and it happens.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:21
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Dislike button posted:yeah dude, i totally wasnt going to let them inspect it in person either. It usually happens with straightforward deals like new car with no trade in or rolling to a new lease. Asking for a quote on a trade that is an unknown quantity is a waste of time as it's completely subject to the in person assessment anyway. You may as well go on kbb as it's gotten a lot more accurate than it used to be. If you want a number on your trade type it into kbb and be honest about its condition and history to yourself. If you want a price on the car then just go on truecar. Then go on dealerrater.com and find a dealer with good reviews. With all that info in hand you should be able to walk into that dealership armed with your info and it should be fairly straightforward from there. I've dealt with plenty of anti social goony customers who tried to go the email shotgun route and wound up getting low balled online by other dealers only to find out the deal wasn't real. They waste even more time then they would have just selecting the top rated dealer on yelp and coming in like a normal person.
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Aug 19, 2017 06:33
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kill me now posted:I've dealt with plenty of anti social goony customers who tried to go the email shotgun route and wound up getting low balled online by other dealers only to find out the deal wasn't real. They waste even more time then they would have just selecting the top rated dealer on yelp and coming in like a normal person. In light of this new information I have to tell my wife we have to get a divorce after 12 years since we originally met on the internet. She's going to be pretty dissapointed she's been married to an anti social goony this whole time.
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Aug 19, 2017 07:00
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Yeah, it's not being antisocial. Buying a car isn't a social outing. I don't want a relationship, I just want to buy a loving car and move on with my life. Going through that grinder is about as enjoyable as a root canal on a good day.
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Aug 19, 2017 07:35
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http://www.caranddriver.com/news/vision-mercedes-maybach-6-cabriolet-photos-and-info-news I really really like this because i'm a terrible human being. 
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Aug 19, 2017 11:33
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kill me now posted:It usually happens with straightforward deals like new car with no trade in or rolling to a new lease. Asking for a quote on a trade that is an unknown quantity is a waste of time as it's completely subject to the in person assessment anyway. You may as well go on kbb as it's gotten a lot more accurate than it used to be. This post is an excellent example of why you'd never get my money. It's both patronizing and an excuse for not doing the bare minimum of work of even providing a quote. Dealing with salespeople is usually a huge waste of time
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Aug 19, 2017 12:33
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kill me now posted:It usually happens with straightforward deals like new car with no trade in or rolling to a new lease. Asking for a quote on a trade that is an unknown quantity is a waste of time as it's completely subject to the in person assessment anyway. You may as well go on kbb as it's gotten a lot more accurate than it used to be. I mean, I shotgun email when I'm looking for a car but I always get a copy of the deal before I go in. A dealer in Houston wouldn't give me anything except for "his word" so I told them to gently caress off.
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Aug 19, 2017 14:38
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Powershift posted:http://www.caranddriver.com/news/vision-mercedes-maybach-6-cabriolet-photos-and-info-news Its like something out an art deco piece I fuckin love it. However It is a tragedy that it doesnt feature at least a v12 Lordy that hood length Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 14:39
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Dislike button posted:This post is an excellent example of why you'd never get my money. It's both patronizing and an excuse for not doing the bare minimum of work of even providing a quote. Dealing with salespeople is usually a huge waste of time I'm not saying we don't want to do our part, your average salesperson is scraping to get every sale they can. Its that you will have better results with less frustration on your end by doing things that way. But what do I know, you do this once in a blue moon I do it every day. I'm not here soliciting for sales, I'm just trying to give you some insight into a best practice. If anything someone who doesn't know anything is often preferable from a gross profits standpoint for me, but the right way to do things is educate yourself independently from the dealer before you step in the showroom or send an email and you will have a better time of things. Also you would never know how I feel about you and certainly wouldn't be getting that advice from me if you were actually dealing with me. I am very straightforward and pleasant to deal with so you probably would do business with me. I'm happy to talk about the ins and outs of dealerships and how they treat their customers all day, but this derail has gone way to far away from the threads topic. All I originally wanted to say is that Auto sales are not going to move to a mfg direct or fully online model any time soon not just because the dealers or car makers don't want to but because of the vast majority of customers not wanting to buy cars that way and that AI is an outlier not the norm. To get things back on topic did we talk about the new Z4 concept that looks real production ready?  http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/z5/2018/bmw-concept-z4-first-look/  
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Aug 19, 2017 14:41
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