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Season 1 had more nudity amd generally leaned more heavily on sex. Not to mention that it was basically a 'who done it?' which probably kept a lot of viewers engaged. Season 1 was gud. Don't compare season 1 to the bad show.
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Aug 20, 2017 06:37
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Constant posted:My question is: will the NK and army slowly and methodically massacre each settlement or beeline for the Isle of Faces? Why would they go there?
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Aug 20, 2017 07:18
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Why would they go there? Thats where they were headed during their first invasion 8,000 years ago. Where the children made a pact with the first men. http://imgur.com/gallery/9itLf
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Aug 20, 2017 07:42
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Why would they go there? A popular fan theory is that the Isle of Faces where the last of the Children of the Forest live, and that the destruction of the Children & their legacy is the goal of the invasion. It's supposedly where the night king was created (in the show) and is a generally important Children sacred site (in the books)
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Aug 20, 2017 07:56
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PupsOfWar posted:A popular fan theory is that the Isle of Faces where the last of the Children of the Forest live, and that the destruction of the Children & their legacy is the goal of the invasion. I don't buy it, at least for ths show part. The area has to many barren hills and even snow covered mountains, something that would not be fitting for the Isles of Faces at all.
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Aug 20, 2017 08:18
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PupsOfWar posted:It's supposedly where the night king was created (in the show) This is... wrong. We don't know where the white walkers were created but we do know it's north of the wall, a good guess would be that this is the heart of winter. exhibit A. the creation of the walkers, notice the weirwood and the standing stone spiral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxN0HdSgBfU exhibit B. Bran spies on the Night's King, at the same spot, contemporary to Bran's tutelage in the cave, the place is frozen solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mr076-xwo4
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Aug 20, 2017 08:25
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Constant posted:Thats where they were headed during their first invasion 8,000 years ago. Where the children made a pact with the first men. The gallery you linked doesn't say the White Walkers were headed there. Just that it's where the pact was made, which it was. emanresu tnuocca posted:This is... wrong. The first place doesn't look like it's north of the wall. It never gets that warm up there. Now I do like the idea that winters only started happening after the Night King was created, and there's actually nothing in the lore that contradicts it, so it could be explained that way but the standing stone pattern is clearly totally different:  
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Aug 20, 2017 08:34
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the alternative is: they are just mindless murder machines that wanna kill everybody
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Aug 20, 2017 08:38
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I think it's the same spot, the "world of ice and fire" kind of confirms that the seasons and winters were not quite as hosed up before the long night and I think it's reasonable that the winter spreads from the heart of winter. I also don't have a lot of faith in the show making sure locations are fully consistent with the visual details, the CGI locations change all the time and even small visual details are weird (the last episode had the night's king and three walkers carrying 3 spears that looked completely different than the one he later throws at the dragons, and the spear he throws is actually not strapped to any of the horses even though we later see one of the other walkers take it from there, etc). Etc, it makes the most sense it's the same spot.
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Aug 20, 2017 08:39
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The show is probably going for "the Night King is programmed to destroy all humans", so that frontally smashing into Winterfell is explained with "most/all surviving humans in the north fled to Winterfell". Given that it looks like the NK will be dealt with in the first half of season 8 at most he will reach WInterfell, if he even reaches it. I mean, our heroes could have already ended the threat in the North if Dany, instead of doing an evac would have just torched the NK after he killed her other dragon. Him having a dragon makes it a lot more difficult to do that.
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Aug 20, 2017 09:34
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So, is HBO going to do right by us "Spanish" viewers and air episode 7, instead of 6? I don't want to wait another week for a new episode, what this bullshit? Considering a laywer
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Aug 20, 2017 09:41
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My local library has GoT seasons 1-5 so I've been indulging a rewatch. The show really was better early on. Budget creep and surpassing the books are the most obvious causes of quality drop. The drive away from emphasizing drama and storytelling to the lame spectacle driven sadness we have now where killing off large swaths of the cast counts for character development is a loving tragedy, and if D&D aren't completely responsible, they're at least the most visibly guilty. Regardless everyone involved in transforming this show from faithful adaptation people liked on its own merits to a pandering expensive farce should be ashamed. Yet i gotta say, every one who is talking about how the average viewer is obviously a meat headed shithead who cant endure a drama heavy fantasy show needs to stuff it and maybe watch the seasons actually tightly adapted from the book. It's night and day quality and people liked those seasons a lot. I wonder what it's like to constantly cosplay the execubots from futurama? It's definitely the logic used to justify all the bad decisions made by the showrunners and HBO, but it's not a remotely accurate assessment of why people began to watch this show. It would be accurate to say that most early adopters are only still in it because of sunk costs though.
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Aug 20, 2017 10:27
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People get invested into the characters and the plot, they crave resolution even when the standard of writing falls. I mean, most people stuck around with Dexter until the end simply because Michael C. Hall is such a boss and because they wanted to see what's in store for the main character and that show was terrible and boring for 3-4 seasons or so. People will still around till the very end if they care for the characters.
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Aug 20, 2017 10:32
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drunken officeparty posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XAk2hpuAQI Owen Teale is amazing, I saw him in No Man's Land with Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart, and also got to meet him after the show. Apparently the number one request he gets from fans is a quick video of him calling them cunts and bastards. 
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Aug 20, 2017 10:43
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basic hitler posted:My local library has GoT seasons 1-5 so I've been indulging a rewatch. The show really was better early on. Budget creep and surpassing the books are the most obvious causes of quality drop. The drive away from emphasizing drama and storytelling to the lame spectacle driven sadness we have now where killing off large swaths of the cast counts for character development is a loving tragedy, and if D&D aren't completely responsible, they're at least the most visibly guilty. Regardless everyone involved in transforming this show from faithful adaptation people liked on its own merits to a pandering expensive farce should be ashamed.  Also, I understand that not everyone can be a GRRM and it was absolutely impossible to maintain the same level of writing quality once the source material ran out. But there has been some truly heinous poo poo on this show the last couple of seasons, stuff that should have never made it past even a below average writer and would also be out of place on any other HBO show. It's not even the writers alone who are loving up. IRC the Arya running from the Terminator scenes last season were due to the producers hiring some braindead hobby director who had always dreamed about doing a "cool" action sequence like that. And what we got on the screen was even a toned down version of what he wanted to do, due to the Arya actor complaining about how batshit insane the whole stuff was. IRC there was originally supposed to be some diving and underwater stuff? jfc 
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Aug 20, 2017 10:56
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basic hitler posted:Yet i gotta say, every one who is talking about how the average viewer is obviously a meat headed shithead who cant endure a drama heavy fantasy show needs to stuff it and maybe watch the seasons actually tightly adapted from the book. It's night and day quality and people liked those seasons a lot. Well, that is probably an exaggeration, but there are people who name their children "Khaleesi" and HBO is making the "previously on GoT" so super obvious because people wouldn't understand the show otherwise. Most of the show only people probably would even have trouble naming the great houses.
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Aug 20, 2017 17:43
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, that is probably an exaggeration, but there are people who name their children Fixed that for ya. 
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Aug 20, 2017 17:49
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The best part about people complaining in this thread is they're acting like GRRM didn't suck rear end at writing his own story with books 4 and 5. I'm just glad we're getting a conclusion. It might be a bullet points conclusion but it's the bullet points that GRRM gave them so close enough. Books 4 and 5 were so boring and crap that I don't have much faith in the future books anyways.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:00
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InFlames235 posted:The best part about people complaining in this thread is they're acting like GRRM didn't suck rear end at writing his own story with books 4 and 5. I'm just glad we're getting a conclusion. It might be a bullet points conclusion but it's the bullet points that GRRM gave them so close enough. Books 4 and 5 were so boring and crap that I don't have much faith in the future books anyways. Having to say "but look, this is as bad in my opinion!" is always a clear sign of quality.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:19
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Speaking of great houses why does King's Landing still have the stag in this season's intro? Everyone who even supposedly had Baratheon blood is dead.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:24
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King Gendry foreshadowing
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Aug 20, 2017 18:26
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Decius posted:Having to say "but look, this is as bad in my opinion!" is always a clear sign of quality. I'm not saying the quality hasn't declined, it clearly has, but GRRM didn't do them any favors by having his quality of work decline drastically as well. They had to untangle all the bad storylines that GRRM threw in himself. Honestly, books and show woulda been better off with the time skip and ending in 5 books/5 seasons rather than 7-8 books/8 seasons.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:31
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Grrm gave them the worst material imaginable to adapt to TV, this is hardly an excuse for the fact that they came up with rushed nonsense and managed to screw up all the character development in he process.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:43
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Hell, the show came up with a way to make the Dorne plot even worse, somehow E: and hosed up the Winterfell plotline, the only one genuinely great thing in ADWD
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Aug 20, 2017 18:47
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You're including the Reek chapters in that, right? e: like pre winterfell conspiracy reek stuff
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Aug 20, 2017 18:54
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InFlames235 posted:The best part about people complaining in this thread is they're acting like GRRM didn't suck rear end at writing his own story with books 4 and 5. I'm just glad we're getting a conclusion. It might be a bullet points conclusion but it's the bullet points that GRRM gave them so close enough. Books 4 and 5 were so boring and crap that I don't have much faith in the future books anyways. 4 and 5 were setting the scene. I'm not going to say they were amazing but they still had a lot of good moments and (other than the weird repeating phrases) good writing as well. The show doesn't have that. It feels like all anyone cares about though is huge action scenes. Outside of here everyone else I know thinks it's better than ever because the dragons are burning people and etc. I've mentioned before that I work for the company who broadcasts the show in the UK so I get a LOT of feedback about it and nobody else is negative about it regardless of how stupid it's got.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:56
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A Feast For Crows may well be my favourite of the books. But I understand why people don't like them, compared to the first three.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:58
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esperterra posted:You're including the Reek chapters in that, right? Yeah, everything around Theon's arc (and even tangential areas like Davos and Manderly) were very good.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:06
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esperterra posted:A Feast For Crows may well be my favourite of the books. I love both AFFC and ADWD, I think they're great, really. I still see how they're terrible source material to adapt to a TV series, really they're the worst, they're unfinished, they sprawl over two continents with about a dozen POV characters that barely if ever interact with one another, they have at least one character chasing a foregone conclusion for an entire novel, etc etc. And still, the show coming up with uninteresting plotlines and then just casting them off when they didn't work cannot be attributed to Martin, nobody was forcing them to stick to certain book talking points like the sand snakes and then loving it up to the point where they undo an entire season in two and a half episodes. I'm not even bothered by the cheesy for TV poo poo like Olly, I'm bothered by the fact that the best plot device they could conjure for Jon to head north of the wall after meeting with Dany was for him to hang around on dragonstone for 3 episodes and then needing to go on a meaningless mission up north, wtf is that crap. And ffs the Arya & Sansa winterfell plot is awful and relies on Arya being ridiculously unreasonable and dumb, it will also end with a wet fart which makes the season's plot line irrelevant going forward and also confirms that Littlefinger actually had no schemes or any important role to the plot after (stupidly) sending Sansa to Ramsay since then he basically just relayed Sansa's message to the knights of the vale in season 6 and did nothing else of importance. I mean, I'm still all for the dragons burning poo poo and sword fightings parts of the show, but the plot is a mess. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 19:12
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Yeah, the spectacle is great, but it leaves so much to be desired when in between those scenes are horrible dialogue with either no real characterization, or characterization that makes no sense at this point in the story. e: I often wonder if the main reason people poo poo on aFfC/aDwD is less to do with the content of the books themselves and more about how long it took for what is technically one book to come out, and still the ending was cut out and pushed back to the next novel. esperterra fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 19:25
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AFFC and ADWD are great books and I will fight everyone who disagrees. You can even see the fault lines in the show that open up wherever they did not follow their plot - like Dorne, LF being a dumb idiot, Cersei and Euron forming unholy alliance, Jorah getting greyscale and whatever notAsha is up to. I also wonder how many bullet points GRRM gave them. If I remember correctly they said last season that they got 3 big reveals from him, one of those being Jon's parents, one being Hodor and the third is still unknown - so all they might have with regards to the ending might be "Dany on her dragon kills the NK but dies, the 7 kingdoms fracture into 7 kingdoms again".
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Aug 20, 2017 19:32
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Cersei and Euron forming an alliance is probably happening, according to the Damphair chapter released. The difference is the books will probably build to it properly. e: also yeah they're both great books, Feast especially. There is some really suspicious editing in Dance, though, and the repeating phrases do grate on after a while.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:33
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esperterra posted:Cersei and Euron forming an alliance is probably happening, according to the Damphair chapter released. The difference is the books will probably build to it properly. I don't see how that follows from the Euron chapter. To me the Euron/Cersei stuff is meant to replace (f)Aegon in the endgame, which is why they suddenly have to hire the Golden Company out of nowhere. In the books Cersei is basically hosed, with even her family abandoning her (Jaime) or dead (Kevan). The Lannisters at this point are a spend force who are at the mercy of both the Tyrells and the Faith. Furthermore book Cersei is not the queen and GRRM will never make her the queen because that's one of the more absurd plotpoints in the show. esperterra posted:the repeating phrases do grate on after a while. Words are wind and don't bother me that much. It's the story that's interesting as I want to know where whores go.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:43
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I wish they would have been better at translating the one central idea the last two books had to the screen: When the big boys and girls fight, poo poo rains down on all commoners regardless of affiliation. Out of this several plot points (like the Sparrows) developed, which worked not at all without this foundation when put on TV.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:48
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Decius posted:I wish they would have been better at translating the one central idea the last two books had to the screen: When the big boys and girls fight, poo poo rains down on all commoners regardless of affiliation. Out of this several plot points (like the Sparrows) developed, which worked not at all without this foundation when put on TV. There's so much that's not there from Dance/Feast but the way the common people feel about the war is a huge part of it. I thought the Sparrows in the TV show was poo poo even though it had Pryce because it just didn't fit with the other things they've built. And yet people loved it anyway. So it just doesn't matter. I've said it before but it's such a shame that something so "different" from normal fantasy has been turned into just a normal TV show at this point.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:51
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, that is probably an exaggeration, but there are people who name their children "Khaleesi" and HBO is making the "previously on GoT" so super obvious because people wouldn't understand the show otherwise. Most of the show only people probably would even have trouble naming the great houses. I'm a nerd who helps keep chatacters together and plot points fresh and all that for my sisters and parents and a few less nerdy friends. I whine a lot on here but i would rather let people in real life enjoy their titty dragons, so i keep my discontentment to myself. They may need help keeping it all together but my small sample size is all very loving unhappy at how dumb and brainless the show has become. Yeah people like the action scenes but this season's pacing has done nothing but seriously anger nearly everyone i know who watches this show, the dialogue has been a recurring joke since season 5 at least. It's seriousy too bad D&D can hide their laziness behind "The Audience is dumb and we blew our writing budget on dragons and actors" when they really are just hack frauds with terrible priorities.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:01
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AFFC and ADWD are interesting books and have some of my favorite passages, but they were clearly written by a guy who has lost his enthusiasm for the series. They're extremely depressing books (way more so than the earlier ones) full of characters feeling like they're failing in their purpose, the goals they achieved have backfired in unexpected ways, their lives are stagnating, they're being distracted from what's really important, they're turning into people they hate, they can't sleep in the beds they've made for themselves. The plot scarcely advances, half the characters aren't in each book, and annoying cliffhangers abound. And it's taken years and years for them to come out and it looks like they may never be effectively followed up which hasn't helped their reputation.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:03
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GaussianCopula posted:I don't see how that follows from the Euron chapter. I could see Cersei ending up with the throne if she kills the poo poo out of everyone standing in her way, but I doubt it will go down like that. If it does, then at the very least she'll have a much weaker grasp on the crown than she does in the show. Anyway this is the bit that people think may allude to Cersei and Euron forming an alliance. I don't know how much stock I put in the theory personally (it's vague enough the woman could be anyone) but I can see why people interpret it this way: GRRM posted:The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed...
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Aug 20, 2017 20:07
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Man, I watched the leaked episode when I was drunk and enjoyed it but as I begin to recall everything I'm starting to hate it enough to not watch tonight. Is Varys killed off in the spoilers? That's all I care for anymore.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:08
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I don't know if it's GRRM losing his passion as much as him completely failing to follow on his original outline and making the books way more challenging to write given his character driven writing style.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:08
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