Plex Megathread: Your .ASS Is Getting Transcoded

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Plex Megathread: Your .ASS Is Getting Transcoded

DJ Burette: Jan 6, 2010

Moey posted:

It's the beginning of the end!!!!!!!

I really hope all the people in this thread complaining went to the bother of specifically un-ticking the box that allowed Plex to collect all this information in the past, otherwise this really is a storm in a teacup. I would probably go so far to say that they were being somewhat negligent or at least fools if they didn't collect this information, just so that they can identify problems with the software without having to wait for a thousand people to report it on their forums.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 17:36

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:48

Violator: May 15, 2003

Based on reading some of those threads, it sounds like they're going to start offering third party content more directly within the Plex ecosystem and run their own advertising. They want this analytical data for all users so they have more data to provide advertisers so they're making it mandatory. Is this the start of some sort SlingTV-like or YouTubeTV-like service within Plex? Is Plex going to evolve so that streaming your own media is just a small part of what it does since that doesn't appear to be a money maker?

Elan, Plex CTO posted:

So in some hypothetical future, if we added some third party content, and it had ads, why does that make you angry? If you don't want to watch it, you don't have to. Some percentage of people will appreciate having the content available inside Plex, ads or not; others won't care for it.

This might all be common knowledge, old news, or completely incorrect. I'm not very up-to-date on the Plex roadmap.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 17:41

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

DJ Burette posted:

I really hope all the people in this thread complaining went to the bother of specifically un-ticking the box that allowed Plex to collect all this information in the past, otherwise this really is a storm in a teacup. I would probably go so far to say that they were being somewhat negligent or at least fools if they didn't collect this information, just so that they can identify problems with the software without having to wait for a thousand people to report it on their forums.

I have mine unchecked and :lol:

if you think they need or want this meta data for debug purposes

I mean, I'm rear end deep in Amazon's and Google's ecosystem so I'm not as paranoid about my data as I probably should be. But I don't particularly trust Plex to safeguard this stuff

# ? Aug 19, 2017 18:09

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

teagone posted:

Yeah, I'm definitely not cool with this policy change. Hoping all the negativity they're experiencing forces them to NOT force those new policies, but if it doesn't... I don't know. Do I move to Emby? But then I'd have to move all my friends and family over to Emby. Ugh, what the hell Plex people.

Just a comment on the bolded part above: if you did decide to move to Emby or some other competitor, it's your friends & family's responsibility to move themselves over to the new service. I mean I get what you're saying, but if the end users want to continue receiving free media then it's up to them to put in a little effort to take advantage of your hard work, time, and money.

Wibla posted:

This is way uncool. How does Emby compare to Plex?

The last I heard, Emby has more features (like hardware transcoding) but is more experimental/buggy, and Plex is more well-polished.

Grassy Knowles posted:

Their features are almost all half-baked, and their stringent needs for following a filename structure show that they do not handle edge cases well.

What half-baked features are you referring to? Because I probably have a simplistic usage scenario Plex seems to do what I need just fine, so I can't think of anything that half-works aside from the brand-new features they've introduced recently like DVR, etc.

The filename structure requirements are just to help match content to their proper entries in the appropriate databases. If you think about what it's doing (i.e. looking at a few words in a file name and maybe video length and then finding the correct movie/TV show/whatever) then it's not that unreasonable. It's one thing for a human to identify a movie by watching it and recognizing what it is, but your computer doesn't know or care what that movie is; if I started playing Young Frankenstein for you, you'd know exactly what movie it was and could search for the correct movie poster, trailers, entry on imdb, etc., whereas PMS doesn't know what a Young Frankenstein is. Helping it along by adhering to a naming scheme seems pretty reasonable to me.

Violator posted:

Based on reading some of those threads, it sounds like they're going to start offering third party content more directly within the Plex ecosystem and run their own advertising. They want this analytical data for all users so they have more data to provide advertisers so they're making it mandatory. Is this the start of some sort SlingTV-like or YouTubeTV-like service within Plex? Is Plex going to evolve so that streaming your own media is just a small part of what it does since that doesn't appear to be a money maker?

My use case for PMS is exclusively to play my own content, i.e. stuff that isn't available for streaming. The only reason I have to use PMS is because Netflix and other streaming services simply are missing a lot of media. I would be totally OK with Plex offering 3rd-party media, since that nicely complements the original service. I would strongly prefer, and would gladly pay for, an all-in-one streaming service that could provide any desired TV show or movie.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 19:18

Ixian: Oct 9, 2001; Many machines on Ix....new machines; Pillbug

A few years ago I bought both the Plex and Emby "lifetime" (right) passes when they were on sale/$70. I used Emby exclusively up until about a year ago.

Emby's server is a bit more polished, and has more features, along with some genuinely useful addons for things like collections, etc. It's built on .Net/C# meaning it's technically Windows native, though it supports Mono and works very well on BSD and 'Nix platforms - I ran mine on a FreeBSD server. I mention it because some people get a sandy vag over this aspect even though in practice it doesn't make a bit of practical difference.

The achilles heel of Emby has always been on the client side, where a mix of poorly-supported first party apps along some truly awful third party solutions has dogged the ecosystem for years - though to be fair they aren't all terrible. Emby had a KodiConnect/sync addon first (In fact PlexKodiConnect is built off it) so if you use Kodi primarily as a client this doesn't matter at all.

I've heard their Android app has improved a lot and the Roku version as well, but it's something to check out first.

Finally, I like Emby's live TV/DVR setup better, but Plex's is more polished. Emby lets anyone use it but you have to pay for a separate schedule provider (Schedules Direct, if you are in the US, or XMLTV). They also have a grid guide for more clients. Tuning is a little more hit and miss compared to Plex Live TV in my experience.

If you have a Shield/Android TV the latter doesn't matter since you should be using Live Channels anyway unless you really want tight DVR integration.

Plex has a good server that runs on many platforms, notably the Shield itself, where it runs really well if you have the 500gb version. I've found their clients to overall be better and a little more stable than Emby; this may have changed in recent times. The latter reason is ultimately why I switched, though it was really more for my friends I share my server with (most of whom use Roku) than myself since I use Kodi/SPMC on my own clients.

Both have good remote streaming/viewing options though I found Plex to be a lot easier to set up.

Assuming Emby doesn't go down the Plex path they could be a viable alternative for sure. Worth checking out. You can easily get an Emby server running on a test Windows PC, point it at a library or two, and check it out - it won't hurt anything, and you can play around with the different clients/etc. before you decide if you want to full on switch.

Emby has a Trakt addon as does Plex so that's one way (the only way, actually, I believe) to sync things like watched status, etc. between the two.

Ixian fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 19, 2017

# ? Aug 19, 2017 19:37

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

Ixian posted:

A few years ago I bought both the Plex and Emby "lifetime" (right) passes when they were on sale/$70. I used Emby exclusively up until about a year ago.

Emby's server is a bit more polished, and has more features, along with some genuinely useful addons for things like collections, etc. It's built on .Net/C# meaning it's technically Windows native, though it supports Mono and works very well on BSD and 'Nix platforms - I ran mine on a FreeBSD server. I mention it because some people get a sandy vag over this aspect even though in practice it doesn't make a bit of practical difference.

The achilles heel of Emby has always been on the client side, where a mix of poorly-supported first party apps along some truly awful third party solutions has dogged the ecosystem for years - though to be fair they aren't all terrible. Emby had a KodiConnect/sync addon first (In fact PlexKodiConnect is built off it) so if you use Kodi primarily as a client this doesn't matter at all.

I've heard their Android app has improved a lot and the Roku version as well, but it's something to check out first.

Finally, I like Emby's live TV/DVR setup better, but Plex's is more polished. Emby lets anyone use it but you have to pay for a separate schedule provider (Schedules Direct, if you are in the US, or XMLTV). They also have a grid guide for more clients. Tuning is a little more hit and miss compared to Plex Live TV in my experience.

If you have a Shield/Android TV the latter doesn't matter since you should be using Live Channels anyway unless you really want tight DVR integration.

Plex has a good server that runs on many platforms, notably the Shield itself, where it runs really well if you have the 500gb version. I've found their clients to overall be better and a little more stable than Emby; this may have changed in recent times. The latter reason is ultimately why I switched, though it was really more for my friends I share my server with (most of whom use Roku) than myself since I use Kodi/SPMC on my own clients.

Both have good remote streaming/viewing options though I found Plex to be a lot easier to set up.

Assuming Emby doesn't go down the Plex path they could be a viable alternative for sure. Worth checking out. You can easily get an Emby server running on a test Windows PC, point it at a library or two, and check it out - it won't hurt anything, and you can play around with the different clients/etc. before you decide if you want to full on switch.

Emby has a Trakt addon as does Plex so that's one way (the only way, actually, I believe) to sync things like watched status, etc. between the two.

Interesting, thanks for the comparison between the two. To address the bolded portion above, I want to point out that you could run the Emby server on your PMS machine simultaneously if you wanted to, with both pointing towards the same media libraries. Your only limitation would be the total transcodes that your hardware can support, which shouldn't really be impacted by running different servers; your total users supportable should be about the same regardless of whether you're using PMS, Emby, or both.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:17

BoyBlunder: Sep 17, 2008

If I wanted to play Emby on my LG Smart TV, how would that work? I have a Plex client on the TV. Do they make Emby boxes or something?

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:28

Violator: May 15, 2003

BoyBlunder posted:

If I wanted to play Emby on my LG Smart TV, how would that work? I have a Plex client on the TV. Do they make Emby boxes or something?

From their website: "Emby apps are available for Android TV, Amazon Fire TV, Chromecast, Roku, Xbox, Home Theater Computers, and more."

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:32

xarph: Jun 18, 2001

Who are these people who have been using plex without their metadata scrapers? Plex knows what you're watching anyway unless you turn off all the metadata agents.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 20:59

BoyBlunder: Sep 17, 2008

I'm running Emby on the same media server as my Plex instance. The management interface is awful in comparison to Plex's, but I don't often need to access it that way.

I'm still scanning my media, so we'll see what happens when I get it up and running with everything.

At least it has Chromecast support. Hopefully soon, it'll have LG webOS support for my TV.

# ? Aug 19, 2017 21:23

Cornjob: Jun 12, 2007; NOT AN ACTOR

Anyone using emby on appletv 4?

# ? Aug 19, 2017 22:33

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Imma just keep using Plex

# ? Aug 20, 2017 00:19

Internet Savant: Feb 14, 2008; 20% Off Coupon for 15 dollars per month - sign me up!

TheScott2K posted:

Imma just keep using Plex

Not empty quoting, Because switching at this point is just too much effort.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 00:34

EngineerJoe: Aug 8, 2004; -=whore=-

Nothing even comes close

# ? Aug 20, 2017 01:01

Moey: Oct 22, 2010; I LIKE TO MOVE IT

EngineerJoe posted:

Nothing even comes close

This. I don't have to micromanage currently.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 01:31

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Enjoy my data, Plex. Count another white male in his 30s with a STEM degree who watches Game of Thrones.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 02:11

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

I think the :tinfoil:

worry is that you can easily guess what content is being played and what will stop them from handing it over to law enforcement or content producers. Hell with the meta data you could probably pinpoint the specific release from a specific group

# ? Aug 20, 2017 02:30

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

WhyteRyce posted:

I think the worry is that you can easily guess what content is being played and what will stop them from handing it over to law enforcement or content producers. Hell with the meta data you could probably pinpoint the specific release from a specific group

I guess if they wanted their entire user base to abandon ship in some kind of weird Kamikaze maneuver that would be the thing to do

# ? Aug 20, 2017 02:40

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

It's still perfectly legal to rip your own discs so even if they did have specific movie information, there's nothing to say HOW you acquired that media so there's no legal liability for the user.

Media companies already include pirate sites in certain "popularity" metrics, this isn't anything new.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 03:00

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

FCKGW posted:

It's still perfectly legal to rip your own discs so even if they did have specific movie information, there's nothing to say HOW you acquired that media so there's no legal liability for the user.

It seems like it would be highly unlikely for a home user to get a file that is, say, an MD5 hash match with a popular shared file, just by ripping their own media.

Of course selling out their userbase would literally kill the product overnight, so I suppose that's the one thing keeping the user safe.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 03:38

EngineerJoe: Aug 8, 2004; -=whore=-

WhyteRyce posted:

I think the worry is that you can easily guess what content is being played and what will stop them from handing it over to law enforcement or content producers. Hell with the meta data you could probably pinpoint the specific release from a specific group

This seems to be resolved in their latest blog post. They'll fuzz the details to prevent this.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 03:43

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

IOwnCalculus posted:

Of course selling out their userbase would literally kill the product overnight, so I suppose that's the one thing keeping the user safe.

The tenants of any good privacy policy is to collect only the data you need and retain it for only as long as you need it. Having the data and swearing to never use it won't help if you are ever breached or have to fold and someone else buys up your assets

EngineerJoe posted:

This seems to be resolved in their latest blog post. They'll fuzz the details to prevent this.

The subreddit going super-nuclear was worth it I guess. Emby should have tried to capitalize on it as soon as word got out. I bet if they would have immediately knocked $30 off their lifetime pass for the weekend they would have gotten quite a few reactionary Plex users on the hook

# ? Aug 20, 2017 03:48

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

FCKGW posted:

It's still perfectly legal to rip your own discs so even if they did have specific movie information, there's nothing to say HOW you acquired that media so there's no legal liability for the user.

Media companies already include pirate sites in certain "popularity" metrics, this isn't anything new.

It's the "breaking encryption" part that's been "illegal".

# ? Aug 20, 2017 03:50

Violator: May 15, 2003

WhyteRyce posted:

The subreddit going super-nuclear was worth it I guess.

Here's the update:

https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-policy-changes/

Sounds like a lot of good changes to what they originally discussed. Rounding the playback data (i.e., duration, bitrate, resolution, etc.), allowing users to opt-out of playback statistic submissions, and including text saying they won't sell a user's data seems to quell the major concerns (I think).

# ? Aug 20, 2017 04:13

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

WhyteRyce posted:

The tenants of any good privacy policy is to collect only the data you need and retain it for only as long as you need it. Having the data and swearing to never use it won't help if you are ever breached or have to fold and someone else buys up your assets

You're right, it's far from perfect. With that said, clearly they are listening to the community because today's update should calm a lot of fears.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 04:24

Ixian: Oct 9, 2001; Many machines on Ix....new machines; Pillbug

BoyBlunder posted:

If I wanted to play Emby on my LG Smart TV, how would that work? I have a Plex client on the TV. Do they make Emby boxes or something?

There are "web clients" (I think the Emby XBone client is still one) but no idea if that would work on LG TVs.

Like I said above, no question Plex has a better client ecosystem than Emby. And the clients themselves are generally better, though that determination is pretty subjective and depends on the device.

Emby has some good features server side that I wish Plex would copy - more options for subtitle providers, addons that give you more control over collections and such, etc.

However if you are deeply embedded in Plex and their latest privacy policy clarification is enough for you there's probably no reason to switch.

Moving things like watched stats (particularly for multiple users) and matching metadata, latest added, etc. can be a pain in the rear end, and is only really do-able right now with a third party provider like Trakt - which, ironically, would mean sending Trakt specific data on your personal library and viewing stats, the very kind of thing everyone poo poo their pants about over the recent Plex policy change.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 18:19

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

IOwnCalculus posted:

It seems like it would be highly unlikely for a home user to get a file that is, say, an MD5 hash match with a popular shared file, just by ripping their own media.

Atomizer posted:

It's the "breaking encryption" part that's been "illegal".

These have nothing to do with Plex privacy policy though

# ? Aug 20, 2017 18:48

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Under the vague terms of the original revision, "info such as..." could've easily included a MD5 hash of the file being played. Doesn't tell Plex what it is by itself, but identifies a unique file.

If they collected that, and were then either compromised or sold or otherwise got that info to someone who wanted to, it wouldn't be too hard to see the exact same file being played across thousands of different users, and it also wouldn't be too difficult to cross reference that to md5 hashes of files on popular torrent sites to actually identify the content. Now you've got a list of people that you can reasonably say obtained a file illegally, because Plex obtained more info than strictly necessary.

Now that they've specifically come out and said they're obfuscating the data to rounded values, this shouldn't be an issue.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 20:53

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

FCKGW posted:

These have nothing to do with Plex privacy policy though

I know, it was a reference to the method of obtaining encrypted files from media being technically illegal, not the possession of said unencrypted files. I wasn't claiming it had anything to do with Plex's privacy policy.

# ? Aug 20, 2017 21:01

Roundboy: Oct 21, 2008

Ixian posted:

There are "web clients" (I think the Emby XBone client is still one) but no idea if that would work on LG TVs.

Like I said above, no question Plex has a better client ecosystem than Emby. And the clients themselves are generally better, though that determination is pretty subjective and depends on the device.
.

Isnt Plex a web client in smart TVs as well. Since it has the same bandwidth limitation as opera browser and is listed as such in usage stats.

I remember this from a discussion a long time ago on why Netflix can stream ten billion pixels and Plex tops out at 8-10? Mbits

# ? Aug 21, 2017 04:40

Ixian: Oct 9, 2001; Many machines on Ix....new machines; Pillbug

Roundboy posted:

Isnt Plex a web client in smart TVs as well. Since it has the same bandwidth limitation as opera browser and is listed as such in usage stats.

I remember this from a discussion a long time ago on why Netflix can stream ten billion pixels and Plex tops out at 8-10? Mbits

Could be, but Plex struck deals and actually shows up in the various Smart TV "app stores" whereas Emby does not, in many cases.

I wouldn't run either on a "Smart" TV anyway. Buy a Shield.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 15:09

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

Ixian posted:

Emby has some good features server side that I wish Plex would copy - more options for subtitle providers, addons that give you more control over collections and such, etc.

The number of people that seem legit angry that Plex won't Direct Play something because of subtitles used to baffle me until I realized they were probably anime dorks and they probably have their own mini Netflix-esque anime server they share with people

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:24

MagusDraco: Nov 11, 2011; even speedwagon was trolled

WhyteRyce posted:

The number of people that seem legit angry that Plex won't Direct Play something because of subtitles used to baffle me until I realized they were probably anime dorks and they probably have their own mini Netflix-esque anime server they share with people

Maybe though the real anime dorks setup MadVR and stuff to watch color corrected anime on their computer or whatever MadVR is doing for them.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:27

Nairbo: Jan 2, 2005

Is the MadVR poo poo even worth using over VLC on Windows if you're not watching animes?

# ? Aug 21, 2017 17:35

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

WhyteRyce posted:

The number of people that seem legit angry that Plex won't Direct Play something because of subtitles used to baffle me until I realized they were probably anime dorks and they probably have their own mini Netflix-esque anime server they share with people

I thought I was imagining that Plex has to reencode for this, as recently I noticed I could watch subbed stuff while direct playing. Has something changed, or do certain sub formats play nicer than others? This was an MKV with embedded (but not hard subbed) on an Apple TV. Direct Play with no issues.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 18:21

Ixian: Oct 9, 2001; Many machines on Ix....new machines; Pillbug

WhyteRyce posted:

The number of people that seem legit angry that Plex won't Direct Play something because of subtitles used to baffle me until I realized they were probably anime dorks and they probably have their own mini Netflix-esque anime server they share with people

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I don't watch Anime and never have. I am deaf in one ear, and have spanish-speaking relatives, meaning subtitles for regular shows are important.

Plex only has a server-side option for Opensubtitles, which I find often results in bad subtitles that are filled with dipshit ads for both Opensubtitles itself and whatever l33t person modified them. Other providers are better in my experience.

I generally don't use the Plex clients themselves because of this, preferring Kodi (which has local, sidecar subtitle support, and is pretty good at that). That's all I meant.

Godinster posted:

Is the MadVR poo poo even worth using over VLC on Windows if you're not watching animes?

It's also heavily favored by a certain class of videophile who run liquid-cooled top of the line Nvidia graphics cards to upscale BD rips and the like to ludicrous levels.

It's one of those things where if it really mattered to you, you would already know about it and be doing it.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 19:25

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Stop liking anime and everything about your life gets better

# ? Aug 21, 2017 19:27

astral: Apr 26, 2004

Ixian posted:

Plex only has a server-side option for Opensubtitles, which I find often results in bad subtitles that are filled with dipshit ads for both Opensubtitles itself and whatever l33t person modified them. Other providers are better in my experience.

I generally don't use the Plex clients themselves because of this, preferring Kodi (which has local, sidecar subtitle support, and is pretty good at that). That's all I meant.

Check out the SubZero agent for Plex.

# ? Aug 21, 2017 19:59

Internet Explorer: Jun 1, 2005

I'm having a problem with matching and I'm frustrated. I have a Shield TV which means I can't use [url=http://forums.plex.tv/discussion/126254]Webtools[url] without unlocking the bootloader and rooting and other fuckery, so I can't see exactly what's going on. My frustration is that I have a series that isn't showing up in Plex at all, not even by just a file or folder name, as some of my unmatched stuff shows up now. It's named show.s01e01.blah, which is how the vast majority of my media is named and the rest comes up fine. I know this show has been correctly identified in the past, but I'm not sure if it got lost in a library refresh or what. I know it's in TheTVDB, but I really hadn't taken too much time to get familiar with that site and I don't see it spelling out exactly how something should be named, so I'm sure it's Plex doing the decoding on the name and just looking it up.

Is there any other steps for troubleshooting?

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:33

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:48

kri kri: Jul 18, 2007

astral posted:

Check out the SubZero agent for Plex.

This is the correct answer

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Plex Megathread: Your .ASS Is Getting Transcoded

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