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MiddleOne posted:Agreed, but I don't see political violence as helpful in stopping us from getting there. Just gonna quote Hitler here: "Only one thing could have stopped our movement – if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement." As our respective governments show no inclination to nip this in the bud, choosing instead the avenue of appeasement or indifference, it is incumbent on regular citizens to act in self-defense. Fascism as an ideology is built around the application of extreme violence. It is the only language it speaks or respects. This has been true historically and nothing has changed in that regard.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:38
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Are we really having a debate about antifa being a thing in Scandinavia? Well yes. Groups that call themselves antifascist do exist in scandinavia. Whenever there is a big nazi rally planned they tend to turn up and figth them, usually in with massive numerical superiority. If you want to join them you can. They migth even start using more direct and radical forms of force against rigth wing groups/parties if someone joins them and urges them to do so.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:52
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MiddleOne posted:
They loving did stop Norway from getting there. During the nineties when extreme right movements were rising the only ones that did anything to stop them where violent anti-fa. The police sure as poo poo wasn't doing anything.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:00
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Alhazred posted:They loving did stop Norway from getting there. During the nineties when extreme right movements were rising the only ones that did anything to stop them where violent anti-fa. The police sure as poo poo wasn't doing anything. Nordstrand is the prime example of this. But that's what you were referring to, I'm guessing.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:37
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SplitSoul posted:Just gonna quote Hitler here: Not gonna argue for or against the actual subject matter, but this part of your argument hinges on Adolf "invading Russia is a good idea" Hitler making a rational analysis of the situation.
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Aug 21, 2017 08:20
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BonHair posted:Not gonna argue for or against the actual subject matter, but this part of your argument hinges on Adolf "invading Russia is a good idea" Hitler making a rational analysis of the situation. Also he equates modern-day Scandinavia with the Weimar republic, which have some very obvious issues. Nazism today is from a political perspective completely irrelevant since there is no public support at all, cause we all know what a stupid and murderous ideology it is, and the nazi organisations are by default unstructured like fringe extremist organisations are. I actually don't know which iteration the Swedish nazis are at the moment, but their organisations fall apart on a regular basis. The only relevance nazism has today is as a straw man to throw at your political opponents to avoid having an actual discussion.
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Aug 21, 2017 08:30
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BonHair posted:Not gonna argue for or against the actual subject matter, but this part of your argument hinges on Adolf "invading Russia is a good idea" Hitler making a rational analysis of the situation. It also operates on some mighty revisionism of history where the SA was not spending most of the 1920-30's fighting their communist contemporaries in the street. The problem was no so much that no one opposed Hitler or his ideals, plenty did. The problem was that when things reached their critical juncture in the 1930's the few people that mattered within the republic just caved and let Hitler take over. If this month has tired me of anything it is selective quoting of historical figures to bolster an argument. Cardiac posted:Also he equates modern-day Scandinavia with the Weimar republic, which have some very obvious issues. Current biggest shaker is Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen. Question is if their mobilization will succeed this time or if they'll implode like Svenskarnas Parti last election. If their complete failure to disrupt the Afghan strike in Stockholm are any indication then I think implosion is not too unlikely. Undoubtedly though nazi movement everywhere are feeling emboldened by what is happening within the US. Cardiac posted:The only relevance nazism has today is as a straw man to throw at your political opponents to avoid having an actual discussion.   Like, dude MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 08:38
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No you see, nazi means the german movement of the early 20th century, so contemporary white men can't possibly be nazis! Bamboozled again, silly lefties.
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Aug 21, 2017 08:46
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BonHair posted:Not gonna argue for or against the actual subject matter, but this part of your argument hinges on Adolf "invading Russia is a good idea" Hitler making a rational analysis of the situation. Cardiac posted:Nazism today is from a political perspective completely irrelevant since there is no public support at all, cause we all know what a stupid and murderous ideology it is
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Aug 21, 2017 08:52
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Guys, guys, the real danger is the muslims! Don't worry about the nazis, It's not like far-right terror kills more,... oh wait.
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Aug 21, 2017 10:18
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MiddleOne posted:It also operates on some mighty revisionism of history where the SA was not spending most of the 1920-30's fighting their communist contemporaries in the street. The problem was no so much that no one opposed Hitler or his ideals, plenty did. The problem was that when things reached their critical juncture in the 1930's the few people that mattered within the republic just caved and let Hitler take over. Those people who "caved" weren't really republicans or ardent defenders of their system at all, nor liberals really. They were conservative (or reactionary) anti-democratic politicians who would much have preferred a return to the old rule of the Emperor and the Junkers than anything else. They didn't really cave to Hitler's demands as much as they allowed him into power because they thought he and his movement could be controlled and used by them to achieve their ends. Someone, I think one of the posters in the Germany thread, made a really good post about the "liberal" credentials (or lack thereof) of the people responsible for putting Hitler in power, a shame I can't remember where or when it was made other than roughly 6 months ago. Anyway in the absence of nazis not really being given the permission to hold rallies and the police being kind of.. careful when it comes to arresting them when they actually do protest illegally, the best way to keep them away probably is with counter-protest or a good punch in the face. I don't like communists and other far-left groups all that much, but when they're among the people doing this, they're okay. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 11:37
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You just jumped into an entirely different argument which A: I'm not making, and B: I'm pretty sure we'd agree with each other on.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:46
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Randarkman posted:Anyway in the absence of nazis not really being given the permission to hold rallies and the police being kind of.. careful when it comes to arresting them when they actually do protest illegally, the best way to keep them away probably is with counter-protest or a good punch in the face. I don't like communists and other far-left groups all that much, but when they're among the people doing this, they're okay.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Among? You make it sound like they aren't the main force opposing the far/extreme-right. They may very well be. I Meant no disrespect or anything like that. I just wanted to say that they might not necessarily be the only ones, and that lots of different people can oppose fascism even though it tends to be strongest amongst the extreme left.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:59
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MiddleOne posted:It also operates on some mighty revisionism of history where the SA was not spending most of the 1920-30's fighting their communist contemporaries in the street. I'm sure Hitler didn't forget that, but clearly they didn't do their job well enough, otherwise he wouldn't have been alive to offer that insight. Some of them were even convinced that they'd be able to seize power after his election successes and had a slogan to that effect, "After Hitler, our turn!".
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Aug 21, 2017 13:29
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SplitSoul posted:I'm sure Hitler didn't forget that, but clearly they didn't do their job well enough, otherwise he wouldn't have been alive to offer that insight. Some of them were even convinced that they'd be able to seize power after his election successes and had a slogan to that effect, "After Hitler, our turn!".
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Aug 21, 2017 13:33
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SplitSoul posted:I'm sure Hitler didn't forget that, but clearly they didn't do their job well enough, otherwise he wouldn't have been alive to offer that insight. Some of them were even convinced that they'd be able to seize power after his election successes and had a slogan to that effect, "After Hitler, our turn!". Turns out that thinking the nazis are just some goofballs who can't do any lasting harm is a really loving dumb idea.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:
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Aug 21, 2017 20:23
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Foulbrood posted:This is from a while back but I will need you to hand over all existing pictures you have of Pernille Skipper and scale models, A Buttery Paste. It concerns a very specific fetish of mine.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That's not a scale model, she really is that big. 
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Aug 21, 2017 20:36
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Cardiac posted:
Not having public support has, historically speaking, not stopped nazis from gaining power.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:43
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Makeup blogger and provocateur Sophie Elise throws all her weight into the election.  https://www.facebook.com/sophieelise.no/videos/1426851100738632/
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Aug 22, 2017 05:55
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Thlom posted:Makeup blogger and provocateur Sophie Elise throws all her weight into the election. The best thing about this is that people believe that Støre is the masterminded behind it.
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Aug 22, 2017 06:03
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Obviously this has $oro$ written all over it amirite
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Aug 22, 2017 19:41
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AKB continues being completely incompetent http://www.di.se/nyheter/akb-jag-tanker-inte-avga/ . It's quite funny how she keeps losing voters to both SD and C since she can't make up her mind and act decisively,
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Aug 23, 2017 13:52
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It's funny in a way how every old M core issue has been appropriated by other parties on the right. Anti-immigraiton voters have moved to SD, social conservatives flock to SD or KD, people fetishising entrepreneurship and low taxes are now voting C (or, if they're milquetoast enough, L). It's hard to tell what the Moderates are now offering that isn't already being marketed by another, more successful party.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:06
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:AKB continues being completely incompetent http://www.di.se/nyheter/akb-jag-tanker-inte-avga/ . It's quite funny how she keeps losing voters to both SD and C since she can't make up her mind and act decisively, Eh? Poll of polls says M is making slight recovery while C and SD lies still. One polls says nothing. Also reminder that C will probably do a MP before next election and there is a real chance MP will miss 4%, which would make Alliansen the most likely coalition.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:47
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Cardiac posted:Eh? M hasn't done very well since she became the leader since she has been outmaneuvered by Löfven at every turn starting with DÖ and now her party has gotten sick of her as well. She should just realize that she's the right wing version of Mona Sahlin and resign so M will have a better chance for the next election.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:03
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Raja gon give it to ya: https://www.nrk.no/norge/raja-til-listhaug_-_-du-er-jo-et-hatobjekt-i-innvandrermiljoet-1.13653738
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Aug 23, 2017 19:06
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Venstre og KrF kan slenge med leppa om prinsipper og verdier så mye de vil. De har hatt mange reelle muligheter til å vise ryggrad ovenfor FrP, men det har blitt med ordene.
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Aug 23, 2017 19:44
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Venstre er dritt. KrF og egentlig, men det er morsomt når Hareide blir sint i debatter.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:56
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:M hasn't done very well since she became the leader since she has been outmaneuvered by Löfven at every turn starting with DÖ and now her party has gotten sick of her as well. She should just realize that she's the right wing version of Mona Sahlin and resign so M will have a better chance for the next election. Only one third of M voters want AKB to be statsminister and one third would rather see Annie Lööf take over. AKB's in deep poo poo, but M have no competent leaders left so it would not surprise me if they ride it out, get a slight increase, scrape together 17-18% in the next election and tries to declare it a victory while pretending that they did not lose 10% of the electorate.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:00
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lilljonas posted:Only one third of M voters want AKB to be statsminister and one third would rather see Annie Lööf take over. AKB's in deep poo poo, but M have no competent leaders left so it would not surprise me if they ride it out, get a slight increase, scrape together 17-18% in the next election and tries to declare it a victory while pretending that they did not lose 10% of the electorate. Either way I'm wild that we're living in a reality where Hanif Bali and loving Carl Bildt are seen as potential leaders of M. Oh 2017 
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Aug 24, 2017 12:03
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MiddleOne posted:Either way I'm wild that we're living in a reality where Hanif Bali and loving Carl Bildt are seen as potential leaders of M. Oh 2017 On the other hand, that would save Hanif Bali from having to get an actual real job, as the current low support for M would mean that he's kicked out of the Riksdag and can't be a salaried twitter troll.
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Aug 24, 2017 13:51
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It's finny how Bali's right-wing LF-posting on twitter and chumminess with Chang Frick and other personae non grata doesn't seem to bleed into the mainstream at all. I mean, Twitter is wholly irrelevant to the world at large but it seems like the kind of dumb poo poo politicians, especially ones in parliament, would get in trouble for once some enterprising journalist picks up the scent. (For the record I think Bali is an idiot but it would be even more idiotic to try to make a story out of his twitter trolling. He's just matching the general level of the discourse on there.)
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Aug 24, 2017 14:57
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Is it surprising that AKB stepped down?
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Aug 25, 2017 09:09
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Dirk Pitt posted:Is it surprising that AKB stepped down? No, she was in a really really bad situation no matter what she decided to do today. She was also very exposed without any defenders that the average voter would know and respect. A wavering support from roughly half of the local party organisations is not a position of strength. Also the internal opposition was turning into a rapid avalanche this week, things were only going to get worse and she knew it. There was no point to try to stay for another year, just to be remembered as the party leader who was responsible for the return from an outlyer period with 30% support back to a more normal 15%, which is how things are looking right now. Also keep in mind that AKB was an untested leader who was forcibly put at the top of the party by their previous leader when he left. She was not carried there by massive support, and she didn't have to really campaign to get her spot. She never had a broad appeal in the party, which is to a certain degree a party of older men who felt wronged that they were robbed a chance at the top. She never had to weather a real crisis until this year, when she bumbled the SD issue, bumbled the IT scandal, and seemed to scrape together the worst result possible from situations that would be simple to deal with as an opposition party. She didn't have the reserves of allies or even old laurels to claim that she had what it took to improve the outlook for the party, or even herself. Keep in mind as well that AKB never was much of a tactician, and was more known as an ideology politician before she became party leader. Just as she couldn't navigate practical issues such as the non-confidence vote, I doubt she had the skills to navigate the internal mistrust of her. However, I hardly see how this will make matters better for M, as the basic problem has not been AKB. She hasn't helped (she's reeeeally bad on screen), but it's basically a problem of policy, where the party has been both a weathervane shifting positions a lot, and also not having a unique selling point. Other parties have more clearly defined positions on everything that M claims to be their politics, so I bet voters aren't chomping at the bit to flood back. E: as to how likely it was that she'd drop, my more politically interested friends were at the point where they were betting on which day she'd announce, not whether she'd announce or not. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 09:38
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MiddleOne posted:Either way I'm wild that we're living in a reality where Hanif Bali and loving Carl Bildt are seen as potential leaders of M. Oh 2017 As a V-voter, I'm hoping for Bali. It'd be the perfect nail in the coffin. Jokes aside, I prefer a strong M opposition than an SD one so get your act together M. Make a clone of Lööf, she's cool and smart. Whatever happens now, I'm glad to see the back of AKB. Was a real treat to see her populistic "SD or maybe not but maybe SD!" dance completely blew up in her face.
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Aug 25, 2017 11:24
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BigglesSWE posted:As a V-voter, I'm hoping for Bali. It'd be the perfect nail in the coffin. Is this an conscious parody of US democrats? (But no, it's safe to say that Bali would not be the Swedish Trump)
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Aug 25, 2017 13:01
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Beeswax posted:Is this an conscious parody of US democrats? Conscious? No, but I like it, so let's call it that! I'm really hoping for them to get an actual politician and not a populist option, since populism needs to die a firery death ASAP.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:30
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