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What's the deal with these random patterns I'm getting in my loot. Something's up, for sure.Taffer posted:This is literally what random is. What you're wanting is "kinda random, but still pretty much the same all the time", which is in fact called "pseudo-random" because it's not actually random. Random is capable of a huge range of outcomes. In a random system it's technically possible for every single gun that spawns to be a kar98. Unlikely, but possible. You're hitting some minorly unlikely, but possible scenarios and assuming the system is broken. Pseudorandom has an actual definition and it is not 'non-random' which you imply. A pseudorandom number is a number that has been generated by a deterministic process(ie not randomly) but is statistically random, which means it is indistinguishable from true randomness. Further all "random" numbers in computers, in every program ever, are pseudorandom because you can't actually make true random numbers in software. Now if an RNG was implemented incorrectly the result would be 'not pseudorandom' not 'not random' which they already are.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:59
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While what you say is obviously true about true randomness, the "pseudo" distinction in video games usually refers to a probability described with a flat number but is actually a different value depending on recent outcomes. The mechanic I always think of is the crit or bash chance in dota. You might have 17% average chance to bash over a large enough sampling, but the first attempts are lower than that and each failed attempt increases your chances. Doesn't eliminate the chance of getting sequential bashes or first hit bash, but reduces it significantly. In pubg it would mean having loot regions that fill slots with chances for an item dependent on previous local rng outcomes for that item. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 08:17
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Glory to Italia!
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i lvoe that this game is stupid and random but im also a fiend for really lovely roguelikes so thats probably due to my brain being bad
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Aug 21, 2017 08:59
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The randomness is a great thing IMO, it forces you to improvise and learn to use different weapons, fight in different settings, etc. The game can be an e-sport even though it's random. It's not going to be a top-tier esports machine like CS:GO or DotA, but tournaments built around the entertainment of viewers is definitely a viable path to take. I mean, even if loot was de-randomized, the circle is still random and is arguably a bigger factor in who wins and loses. You could de-randomize the circle too, to make it narrow around one point the whole way through a game, but that would lead to vastly increased camping and less movement in general, which would make the game less watchable. Keep the game a random, chaotic mess and people will enjoy watching even if their favourite streamer might lose a round to getting only pistols or getting three bad circles in a row.
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Aug 21, 2017 10:15
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Guys, it has been a week and a half since my PC got shipped and I am having extreme chicken dinner withdrawals with at least 4 weeks left before it arrives. Please, sustain me with tales of chicken dinners that were comeback kid situations. Warrior needs food badly...
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Aug 21, 2017 10:32
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where is this shipping to/from that takes five weeks wtf
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Aug 21, 2017 11:17
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Zigmidge posted:I do. You realize I want everything to be like quake, right? Well... In Quake FFA you spawn with next to nothing. In order to win you need to move to locations around the map to pick up weapons and armor in order to become stronger. Every so often a powerup like quad damage appears somewhere in the arena. What Im saying is this game totally ripped off Quake.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:47
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Wooper posted:Pseudorandom has an actual definition and it is not 'non-random' which you imply. While we're being pedants, you can get 'true' randomness in a computer, so long as you measure it from an external, known-random source - this is typically used to generate the seed for your pseudorandom generator. The problem with it is that the process for avoiding local biases and such ends up being quite slow, and programs like games generally need their randomness now and fast. Being able to get the same sequence of 'random' numbers so long as you preserve the seed can also be quite useful for debugging.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:53
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Dyz posted:Well... Isn't literally every multiplayer shooter a quake rip off?
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Aug 21, 2017 12:19
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violent sex idiot posted:where is this shipping to/from that takes five weeks wtf Making the move to the Asia servers.
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Aug 21, 2017 12:26
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Copy Battle Royale further by having everyone spawn with random weapon and maybe some ammo for it if you're lucky. True pros can win with paper fan spawn.
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Aug 21, 2017 12:27
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Gildiss posted:Making the move to the Asia servers. Making the voyage by fast clipper was a smart choice!
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Aug 21, 2017 13:30
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I can see both sides of the argument re: randomness. It's good to have things be unpredictable to some extent because it forces you to be adaptable... but at the same time it's not that fun to clear EVERY HOUSE in Primorsk in a solo game and not find an AR, or an optic of any kind, which I've had happen before. Similarly it's a bit nuts to have a squad clear every house in Primorsk and literally come out with ten 4x scopes in another game which I've also had happen. I'm not saying this happens all the time - I am aware and careful of confirmation bias. A little (just a little!) more balance would be nice. Wouldn't be too hard to come up with a pseudo-random algorithm whereby once there's a "good" item (sniper rifle, suppressor, 8 scope or whatever) dropped somewhere, the odds of another one dropping nearby are (slightly?) reduced, and if all the previous loot spawns in a town are lovely by the time you've populated half of them, the odds of the next one being a "good" item keep increasing (again by a small amount). That way there's still a chance of every loot spawn in a given town being lovely, but less so. Same with one town having like 6 suppressed, 8-scoped sniper rifles in. They could balance it so that scope spawns are not affected or only slightly affected by sniper rifle spawns, so that you can still find a sniper rifle and a scope in the same place for example. It's also not going to take any significant amount of processing power - I'm not a highly experienced programmer but I reckon I could code something like this in a day of two which would take about a second to generate all of the loot spawns for the island.
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Aug 21, 2017 13:46
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Didn't someone post a link that explained that it's entirely possible for poorly written RNGs to gently caress up regularly and lean towards groupings of things?
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Aug 21, 2017 13:55
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When your finger hits the scroll wheel just as you go for the final kill... http://plays.tv/video/599ad422cf440cbf11/dinner-denied?from=user Also, here's a game where I got 7 kills using the pump shotgun http://plays.tv/video/593c07f4d83785d289/7-shotgun-kill-game-in-squad-mode?from=user
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Aug 21, 2017 13:57
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Fart Car '97 posted:Didn't someone post a link that explained that it's entirely possible for poorly written RNGs to gently caress up regularly and lean towards groupings of things? Well logically, if it's poorly written then any kind of screwyness is possible, so yeah.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:07
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The Mash posted:The randomness is a great thing IMO, it forces you to improvise and learn to use different weapons, fight in different settings, etc. This game is literally a multi table poker tournament and the WSOP is a big spectator event. You just have to accept that the winners of big e-sports events probably aren't the actual best players. RNG is really not an issue imo and it seems people just don't like the fact that they are going to lose most of their games to lovely luck, even if they are among the best players in the initial 100.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:16
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nachos posted:This game is literally a multi table poker tournament and the WSOP is a big spectator event. You just have to accept that the winners of big e-sports events probably aren't the actual best players. In poker one game has many many hands which are basically all distinct, and your luck evens out across a tournament. Of course over many games of PUBG your luck will also even out, but one "hand" (i.e. your starting drop location's loot) is potentially 30 minutes long. Not really the same thing. There's an extent to which you're right, but also finding 3 sniper rifles in a single house (which again has happened to me a couple of times) should be staggeringly unlikely. There was a similar RNG problem in Dota2 - characters with a low chance for a critical hit or ability with chance of effect (say 10%) would fairly often get 2x critical hits in a row in the early game which can lead to a kill on an enemy. Whilst technically this is pure and correct RNG and fair enough, it still feels like bullshit if you're on the receiving end of that. They changed it to a pseudo-random chance which greatly reduced the whole double-crit problem by making it so that once you've had one crit, the chance of the next hit being a crit was very unlikely. They'd still get the same number of crits over 100 hits say, but the output would be a lot less "spiky". There's an explanation here: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wu6BspkLHVwJ:https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Random_distribution+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk (I linked to google's cached page because gamepedia wouldn't load for me). WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 14:26
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DrNutt posted:People that aren't down with SMGs already are loving stupid. The mad rush for ARs is stupid. You kill people and take your poo poo if you don't find it on your first drop. I just played two duos with like ten kills each game between two of us and like 90% of my kills were with the UMP. The game doesn't need balancing, you need to play with fun people that aren't concerned with MAX OPTIMUM BUILDS Yeah. A very important milestone in this game is learning what 'good enough' is in terms of loadout. Once you hit a certain point it's much better to go hunting rather than being a loot goblin until forced otherwise.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:46
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WhatEvil posted:In poker one game has many many hands which are basically all distinct, and your luck evens out across a tournament. Of course over many games of PUBG your luck will also even out, but one "hand" (i.e. your starting drop location's loot) is potentially 30 minutes long. Not really the same thing. I hear what you're saying but I much prefer the game to be full random and think it can be an excellent spectator sport even so
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Aug 21, 2017 14:53
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The Mash posted:I hear what you're saying but I much prefer the game to be full random and think it can be an excellent spectator sport even so Yeah I mean, fair enough, that's a perfectly valid position to have. I'm *mostly* with you, it's just some nights you seem to have like 4-5 games in a row where you find nothing but pistols and maybe a shotgun in your starting area and die early in squad games, and it's annoying as poo poo. I know I'm not amazing at the game but I'm at least a little above average (I have around a 1.3 average KDR in squads), still, sadly if all I have going into the third circle is a pistol and maybe an uzi or shotgun then I'm near enough useless in fights with anybody more than 50m away - and yes I should "git gud" and learn to compensate for that, but it's still frustrating. I'm of the opinion that it's fine to make aspects of games difficult and even frustrating at times, but for me there's a point where something crosses over from "frustrating" to "bullshit" and it's usually when some aspect of a game is PURELY luck based. WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 14:59
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Just allow people to drop with a pistol of their choice to start, that'll make people think twice about dropping on other players and spread them out more, or watch them die immediately from poor decisions. With one clip ammo, no extra.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:56
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Ocatamai posted:Just allow people to drop with a pistol of their choice to start, that'll make people think twice about dropping on other players and spread them out more, or watch them die immediately from poor decisions. Everyone starts with a crossbow with a single bolt
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Aug 21, 2017 16:03
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I really like dropping into an area, realizing someone's there with me, and those few moments where we're both scrambling for a gun. The games where I find absolutely no armor or helmets are way more frustrating than the games where I get saddled with a pistol for a while, but even then, it feels like the RNG adds a lot more than it takes away.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:37
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The UMP rules and the vector rules. Just shoot people in the head and stop worrying about getting the perfect loadout. Really if you aren't using double double-barrel shotguns, then I don't know what to tell you guys...
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Aug 21, 2017 16:44
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Just Chamber posted:Everyone starts with a crossbow with a single bolt Yesss, these are the people who deserve to win. Of course, this might have the side effect of making everybody good with crossbows which is even more dangerous than the original problem.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:46
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Stealthgerbil posted:The UMP rules and the vector rules. Just shoot people in the head and stop worrying about getting the perfect loadout. Grandpa's gun is the best gun
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Aug 21, 2017 16:58
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geonetix posted:Isn't literally every multiplayer shooter a quake rip off? Except Doom yes.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:22
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Stealthgerbil posted:The UMP rules and the vector rules. Just shoot people in the head and stop worrying about getting the perfect loadout. The vector really shines when you get the extended mag load out for it.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:27
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 My best win yet, I think. Duos, my partner died at around 35 left with me at ~8 kills. Killed three two-man teams in the final 10.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:42
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The Mash posted:
hahaha 19 kills  , that's awesome
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Aug 21, 2017 17:47
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The Mash posted:
Jesus Christ. You alone took out almost 1/5th of the entire game. That's insane.
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Aug 21, 2017 18:13
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My average game sees me kill one or two people early in the game, and then I spot nobody until the final 30 and then I either kill a few more and die or just die. I don't think I've even seen more than eight or nine people in a single game.
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Aug 21, 2017 18:29
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I don't think I've even seen more than eight or nine people in a single game. thats crazy. Sometimes when I drop at pochinki there are like 20 or 30 people and its insane
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Aug 21, 2017 18:35
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:My average game sees me kill one or two people early in the game, and then I spot nobody until the final 30 and then I either kill a few more and die or just die. I mean this is how you should expect every game to go if you're playing the most 'sensible' strategy. Drop somewhere medium, maybe kill the other 1-2 that landed there, gear up and move to safe/smart positions as the circles get smaller. It's also why the game is a lot more fun and dinners a lot more satisfying if you go out and pick fights on the way to the top
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Aug 21, 2017 18:38
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Fart Car '97 posted:It's also why the game is a lot more fun and dinners a lot more satisfying if you go out and pick fights on the way to the top Nothing feels better than scoping out a squad, advancing on them, choosing when to engage, and wiping them with your team.
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Aug 21, 2017 18:42
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Lmao I got a 300m kill with an M416/8X while standing on top of a toilet in a bathroom shooting out of those tiny slit windows and the guy had no loving clue what was going on, god bless this game
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Aug 21, 2017 18:51
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The RNG sometimes treats you poorly, but some of my best games have come when my squad landed in Pochinki and I landed 4 kills with a 1911. If you land with a lot of people and only get a pistol or shotgun, go aggressive. Don't give the other teams time to loot and get set up. If you play solo and you drop in relatively sparse areas, you have to have a plan if you come out with only a crossbow and a red dot. Think about where players will be moving and get to a good point to ambush one. Adjust to what you have and make the best of it. Use every tool you have. Sound is huge in this game, and it's easy to distract someone with any grenade you have, doors opening, and gunfire followed by quick movement. It is a lot like chess, you need to be thinking two steps ahead and have an easy backup plan.
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Aug 21, 2017 18:55
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Gildiss posted:Guys, it has been a week and a half since my PC got shipped and I am having extreme chicken dinner withdrawals with at least 4 weeks left before it arrives. Two nights ago I was in a squad game where my three teammates has all died, and the circle was closing on my wizard tower in the southwest of the military island, I had almost run out of ammo, and then I won by jumping out and shotgunning a nerd in the back of the skull. Didn't even realize it was just me and him. Never underestimate the S12K folks, I think I've won more games with that gun than any other. e: The Mash posted:
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Aug 21, 2017 19:11
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Doorknob Slobber posted:thats crazy. Sometimes when I drop at pochinki there are like 20 or 30 people and its insane I don't usually drop on big areas because I can't count on the game to load reliably. Sometimes I drop on a city and everything is just fine, and then sometimes I drop on three huts in the middle of nowhere and all the buildings look like smore-based diorama of Aleppo. Fart Car '97 posted:I mean this is how you should expect every game to go if you're playing the most 'sensible' strategy. Drop somewhere medium, maybe kill the other 1-2 that landed there, gear up and move to safe/smart positions as the circles get smaller. It's also why the game is a lot more fun and dinners a lot more satisfying if you go out and pick fights on the way to the top Pretty much. First stage of the game, I drop on a small cluster of houses somewhere I can access the rest of map. If someone drops near me, I kill him or die. Depending on where the circle is and what I loot, I either hole up or haul rear end toward the middle of the circle. I am poo poo at spotting people in the wilderness and this accounts for at least 80% of my deaths. I've been having more success playing more aggressively, but I still get smoked moving through open terrain like a whole lot. Fart Car '97 posted:Lmao I got a 300m kill with an M416/8X while standing on top of a toilet in a bathroom shooting out of those tiny slit windows and the guy had no loving clue what was going on, god bless this game In my last game I saw someone go into a little roadside shack a fair distance away. I was in a tower with a VSS and a hundred rounds. Checked the range- one square away. Aimed for the head. Fired. Nothing. So I kept shooting, and mostly missing. He took a few shots, but my mag ran out as he shimmied over to one corner and started looking at the hilltop in the other direction. Since he'd stopped taking fire, he assumed it was because I couldn't see him. It was around then that I realized I was shooting diagonally across the map square, adjusted my aim, and started shooting again. Poor dude was just spinning around in every direction as he died.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:17
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