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You should go out and buy a dedicated Civ PC.
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Aug 17, 2017 13:22
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Roland Jones posted:There's still an open slot in this, if someone wants to play a game where Domination victory is off (but you'll still probably find up fighting anyway because someone's more cultural than you and that can't stand). Fuuuuuuck. I'm in. I don't see how this doesn't end with one person wiping everyone out anyway though. Tofu Injection fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 03:36
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Tofu Injection posted:Fuuuuuuck. I'm in. Probably. We'll see. Tangent, surprised no one took Saladin or Qin Shi Huang here.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:44
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I picked Nubia, then switched to China, then switched to Arabia, then switched to England.
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Aug 18, 2017 04:13
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I started with Saladin before swapping too, actually; was thinking he'd be perfect for this, but I'm him in a game already (albeit one that's been paused due to the lack of a Mac patch for over three weeks now), so I decided I'd give Japan a try instead. I hope that patch comes soon, on a tangent. That game left me in an interesting position; first neighbor was Montezuma, so, I'll need to be ready for a fight probably.
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Aug 18, 2017 06:26
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I thought about Saladin, too, but I've never played Roosevelt before and America seems pretty versatile/adaptable, so we'll see how it goes.
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Aug 18, 2017 09:11
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With karma getting Rome randomly, that makes four culture-ish and war-ish civs in this game. Fun.
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Aug 18, 2017 09:54
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Hey PYDT gang, phoneposting and I cannot log in to the PYDT forums at work. Things are a bit weird here in Barcelona to say the least (everyone I know is safe and sound by the way and people are going on with their lives as they should). I do have relatives staying for the weekend and a partner to stay close to the next few days, so I may not have the time to send my turns until Sunday evening, sorry for the delay.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:22
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Ulvino posted:Hey PYDT gang, phoneposting and I cannot log in to the PYDT forums at work. Things are a bit weird here in Barcelona to say the least (everyone I know is safe and sound by the way and people are going on with their lives as they should). I do have relatives staying for the weekend and a partner to stay close to the next few days, so I may not have the time to send my turns until Sunday evening, sorry for the delay. I can hardly imagine a better excuse for not playing a game. Hang on there and stay strong!
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Aug 18, 2017 15:56
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Jastiger posted:Culture flips are the best part of civ 4 hands down. They were annoying and the way that culture was calculated was obfuscated and unnecessarily convoluted. I love Civ4, way more than 5 or 6, but the culture wars were one of the less well thought out parts to it.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:00
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ibntumart posted:That's right, I forgot about the siege engines. Stacks were so magical. They need to bring back stacks. Managing a giant carpet of traffic jammed units is a chore.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:00
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They really just need to either do a mixture of stacks and 1upt, or allow you to move multiple units at a time.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:10
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Or just go back to the superior way Civ 1 and 2 handled it. 
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Aug 18, 2017 17:27
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1UPT is very good, the only problem with it is that the AI sucks, but that can be solved by writing better AI.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:32
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Mymla posted:1UPT is very good, the only problem with it is that the AI sucks, but that can be solved by writing better AI. They can't do that.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:36
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I'm sure they can if they just believe in themselves.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:42
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Culture flips took so goddamn long that I could have built an army and crushed that city and rebuilt it in the time it took for it to flip. And this is from a culture center city with museums and various wonders and poo poo.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:58
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Deltasquid posted:Because it reduces combat to "whoever can pour the most dudes into a stack faster than the other guy wins" and at that point you might as well have the computer measure your own production against the enemy's production to determine the winner instantly. It was boring in civ IV, it is boring in stellaris now, and just because it's easier to program doesn't mean it's more fun to play with. This isn't true. Civ4 had a very tactical system of combat that required intelligent maneuvering, positioning, and use of terrain. Against the AI it could be pretty brain dead, but against other humans its''challenging and interesting, which isn't really something that can be said for Civ5 combat. The biggest flaw of Civ4's combat system is that units attack individually, and throwing 100 units into 100 units just takes too long. If it had a moo2 style of locking units together into army groups, it would make for a much more interesting system of management.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:34
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Mymla posted:1UPT is very good, the only problem with it is that the AI sucks, but that can be solved by writing better AI. 1upt isn't very good on its own. It needs maps and units specifically designed to work with 1upt. Civ5/6 doesn't have this. Both games have smaller maps, leading to larger traffic jams, and the units simply do not have the speed to move around each other. Think of other 1upt games. Panzer General had hundreds of hexes just for London, whereas the entirety of England is basically two tiles. Most units in Advance Wars can move 4 tiles at a time. And even then, traffic jams were actually pretty frequent in both games. It isn't like it can't work, but its not an ideal system of gameplay and you need to warp the rest of the game to fit around it, which just doesn't work in civ.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:38
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GrandpaPants posted:Culture flips took so goddamn long that I could have built an army and crushed that city and rebuilt it in the time it took for it to flip. And this is from a culture center city with museums and various wonders and poo poo. Its also down to random chance. Each turn you have an x% chance on flipping the tile based on your cultural influence on that tile vs. your opponents. So each turn you're basically rolling a D10 and hoping that it actually comes up with the number you want (best case scenario) or the other guy jams a bunch of units into the city to prevent flipping. The whole scenario is dumb anyway, because realistically if you lost your city to culture flip, you would just declare war to take it back.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:40
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Borsche69 posted:1upt isn't very good on its own. It needs maps and units specifically designed to work with 1upt. Civ5/6 doesn't have this. Both games have smaller maps, leading to larger traffic jams, and the units simply do not have the speed to move around each other. This is what I'm getting at when I say that battles that don't always end with a unit destroyed doesn't work in Civ. It's because of the way the map and movement works. If units aren't constantly being destroyed, doomstacks and doomcarpets really are pretty much your only options, especially as long as higher difficulty levels mostly mean AIs get lots more units. e: combining dozens of units into one in intricate ways depending on unit types and promotions would work, but is very  and thus would be super amazingly fun for 5% of players and somewhere between tedious and torturous for the other 95%.
Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 00:56
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Corps/armies is enough stacking for me tbh.
Mymla fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 09:04
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Mymla posted:Corpse/armies is enough stacking for me tbh. It's a shame you only get access to those very late in the game though
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Aug 19, 2017 12:08
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Gort posted:It's a shame you only get access to those very late in the game though
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Aug 19, 2017 22:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is what I'm getting at when I say that battles that don't always end with a unit destroyed doesn't work in Civ. It's because of the way the map and movement works. If units aren't constantly being destroyed, doomstacks and doomcarpets really are pretty much your only options, especially as long as higher difficulty levels mostly mean AIs get lots more units. Sadly, I think you're right. As much as I'd hate units to die immediately, it make a sense on a game of this scale and map size. There are other ways to do it, but this is definitely the least complicated.
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Aug 20, 2017 01:45
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Borsche69 posted:The whole scenario is dumb anyway, because realistically if you lost your city to culture flip, you would just declare war to take it back. I don't want to declare war on an AI to take that 1 person city they've plonked on the edge of my continent and they won't take it off me if it does culture flip. It's useful for that, pretty borders are important to me. In fact that's something I seriously miss from 4 that 5/6 don't seem to have managed. So often even at endgame there's huge tracts of unclaimed land and it looks kinda ugly. I like when it becomes a "proper" country.
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Aug 20, 2017 12:35
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is what I'm getting at when I say that battles that don't always end with a unit destroyed doesn't work in Civ. It's because of the way the map and movement works. If units aren't constantly being destroyed, doomstacks and doomcarpets really are pretty much your only options, especially as long as higher difficulty levels mostly mean AIs get lots more units.
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Aug 20, 2017 12:56
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Taear posted:In fact that's something I seriously miss from 4 that 5/6 don't seem to have managed. So often even at endgame there's huge tracts of unclaimed land and it looks kinda ugly. I like when it becomes a "proper" country. It annoyed me to no end when it'd be like 1950 and the world looked like one of those maps showing ISIS's territorial holdings in Syria
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Aug 20, 2017 15:16
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Jesus christ how long does it take to get a loving Mac patch out
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Aug 21, 2017 19:27
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Gort posted:They can't do that. They can. Problem is their audience doesn't care about that. Go to the Civ boards or the reddit sub and see what they care about. It's graphics and different civs. AI is rarely broached.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:53
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I'm not sure if someone being able to do something but never ever doing it is usefully different from them not being able to do it at all. We know there have been Civ games the AI is good at, and ones the AI is bad at. The ones the AI is bad at have 1 UPT. The one the AI is good at does not.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:57
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Gort posted:I'm not sure if someone being able to do something but never ever doing it is usefully different from them not being able to do it at all. Yeah but that particular correlation doesn't imply causation, I don't think. I think Civ V was where they switched to 1UPT, and Civ V is also where Firaxis decided that graphics and civs return more short term sales per dollar spent than gameplay nuts and bolts and invested resources accordingly, but those are probably two separate things that happened to occur at the same time.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:19
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah but that particular correlation doesn't imply causation, I don't think. I think Civ V was where they switched to 1UPT, and Civ V is also where Firaxis decided that graphics and civs return more short term sales per dollar spent than gameplay nuts and bolts and invested resources accordingly, but those are probably two separate things that happened to occur at the same time. I don't think Civ 5 was the result of a cynical "gently caress the gameplay, go for graphics" play, it was just five years newer than Civ 4 so the graphics were better, and the team they had working on it wasn't as good at game design. Credit where credit's due, though, it's a much friendlier and more accessible game than 4 is.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:38
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Civ V FEELS incredibly silly smooth to play. It's just that after a while disappointment sets in as I remember that there's really no point to it, because there is no meaningful diplomacy at all.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:53
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Gort posted:I don't think Civ 5 was the result of a cynical "gently caress the gameplay, go for graphics" play, it was just five years newer than Civ 4 so the graphics were better, and the team they had working on it wasn't as good at game design. Eric the Mauve posted:Civ V FEELS incredibly silly smooth to play. It's just that after a while disappointment sets in as I remember that there's really no point to it, because there is no meaningful diplomacy at all. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 21:09
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what was the project timeline on V anyway? i've gotten the impression that it was made pretty quickly.
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Aug 21, 2017 21:14
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i mean, it came out in fall 2010 and bts was already out in 2007, so they must've had a fair amount of dedicated dev time for it.
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Aug 21, 2017 21:19
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Niwrad posted:They can. Problem is their audience doesn't care about that. Go to the Civ boards or the reddit sub and see what they care about. It's graphics and different civs. AI is rarely broached.
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Aug 21, 2017 21:20
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Crazy Ted posted:Also the fact that they hired a guy who was barely old enough to drink to be the Lead Designer on the game because I HAVE IDEAS
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Aug 21, 2017 22:31
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jBrereton posted:I'm sorry that he is more professionally successful in his twenties than you will probably be in your entire life but the latest games are let down more by the AI team (whose leader is in his fifties and literally walked off in the AI only showcase of Civ VI because his ineptitude was on show - Sad!) than design failures. Uh no that guy took a franchise that was working and wrecked it on the rocks for a decade, Jon Shafer is a legit failure that made strategy games shittier for the people alive on this planet through his incompetence, please don't try to pretend otherwise he also failed in his own kickstarted project after taking other people's money and that still hasn't seen the light of day
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Aug 21, 2017 22:49
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