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CelticPredator posted:It goes against how every single Alien film beside the AvP films handled the creatures. So if makes sense why people were confused. You're expecting the life cycle of a demon beast dreamed up by a crazy person and used as a metaphor for the cruel, vicious nature of god's creation to make sense.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:35
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It made sense for 4 movies. I like when they have a long period to wait before the Alien. It's the best poo poo.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:37
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well why not posted:The Futurama DVD commentary is awesome, they go into a lot of detail on the background and they all obviously love the show. Lots of cool anecdotes and interesting stories. David X Cohen gets to explain some of the math jokes too, which is neat. I prefer watching Red Dwarf with the commentary tracks on since the guys just have such a great chemistry with each other.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:46
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CelticPredator posted:It made sense for 4 movies. I like when they have a long period to wait before the Alien. It's the best poo poo. Passage of time also exists in the avp films but its more hand waved because the aliens are needed to further the plot. But they still act like time has past instead of the instant aliens of covenant.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:51
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well why not posted:The Futurama DVD commentary is awesome, they go into a lot of detail on the background and they all obviously love the show. Lots of cool anecdotes and interesting stories. David X Cohen gets to explain some of the math jokes too, which is neat. I love that Schwarzenegger is obviously just ripped doing that commentary.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:05
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I love that Schwarzenegger is obviously just ripped doing that commentary. Don't forget his immortal delivery 'heeah Ai am on ah hooaaase.' Drunk arnie pronounces 'horse' with at least three syllables. Also, he's forgotten most of the movie, and keeps laughing his ridiculous laugh whenever anything violent happens. 'AHAHAHHA, I FAAWWGOT ABOUT DIS PAHHHT.' CelticPredator posted:It made sense for 4 movies. I like when they have a long period to wait before the Alien. It's the best poo poo. There's a non-zero wait time for every alien birth in the movie. It's enough time for the sun to have set in the case of the first two, an indeterminate period of the night for Billy Crudup (enough time for people to start missing him) and enough time for the last couple to have relaxed enough to have a sexy shower together. Essentially, it's consistently been a shott, non-specified time for the whole series, and this is no different.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:14
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I had a college friend who used to do the "I REMEMBAH DIS PAHT OF DA MOVIE" line all the time apropos of nothing and it would get me every single time.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:49
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Lope's incubation time makes no sense. It's just odd the thing barely gets into his throat before it plants the egg. I'm never going to like that and I love the movie quite a bit.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:45
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The aliens emerging as just miniature versions of their final finals rather than worm like larval things was more upsetting to me personally.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:49
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Was it really that different, comparable to Billy Crudup?
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Aug 21, 2017 07:49
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Yeah, lope didn't go into a coma. It jump off his face, and got it taken off in a few seconds.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:57
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The takeaway is clearly that facehuggers either implant eggs much faster than we thought, or, more likely, facehuggers don't implant anything but rather persuade your body to turn against itself the same way those spores did.
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Aug 21, 2017 08:05
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Snowman_McK posted:Don't forget his immortal delivery 'heeah Ai am on ah hooaaase.' For what it's worth, the wait time in 'Alien' was about 24 hours (based on Parker's estimate on how long the repairs would take before they could lift off), and that's including both the time the facehugger spends on Kane's face and the time he spends just unconscious after the facehugger falls off. Lope's facehugging in Covenant felt especially fast because the thing is on his face for under 10 seconds before it gets cut off, but 'Alien' had the medbay scenes with Ash examining a facehugged Kane and seeing that the facehugger was pumping something into Kane.
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Aug 21, 2017 10:38
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Give the Alien facehugger a break...hes been asleep for millions of years.
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Aug 21, 2017 10:41
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The facehugger was just created tho
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Aug 21, 2017 11:16
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CelticPredator posted:Lope's incubation time makes no sense. It's just odd the thing barely gets into his throat before it plants the egg. Is your problem the incubation time or the time it took to plant? You're using them interchangably. The incubation time is marginally shorter or longer, but also non-specified in any of the other films (yes, you can extrapolate roughly 24 hours, but it's really not spelled out) the planting time is perhaps shorter, or longer, but we've also never seen a face hugger cut off before. We don't actually know at which stage, at which mark of time, it does the actual implanting. The coma may just be so the host is unable to do anything to avoid their fate. You're also still applying a biological realism to a creature that's just pure nightmare and fear of rape made flesh, which is kind of like wondering how Jason keeps that machete so sharp.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:48
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That is my one fanboy complaint in that whole movie and I just can't feel good about it. I didn't know how the Alien got on the ship until later because it really didn't make sense. Unless you throw 40 years off "rules" out the window, including the AvP films. And even Covenant itself.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:34
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CelticPredator posted:That is my one fanboy complaint in that whole movie and I just can't feel good about it. I didn't know how the Alien got on the ship until later because it really didn't make sense.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:02
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Snowman_McK posted:Don't forget his immortal delivery 'heeah Ai am on ah hooaaase.' Milius is almost as awesome. She's a vaaalkyrie, a vaaaaaaaaaaaaaalkyrie!!!! Also love Milius being legit shook for a second when they notice the guy dry humping the llama in the background during the black lotus scene.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:19
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Ersatz posted:Yeah, I was slightly bothered by some of the apparent inconsistencies. The movie's like a waking nightmare though, so rules don't really apply. It's not inconsistency. It's mere difference. Lope's alien-form is consistently presented as the bastard of the two. It was an accident, and abandoned by his creator. Even Lope's crew-mates put him in a medically-induced coma and forget about him. Lope's form is premature, unfinished. (Canon: putting Lope in the coma accelerated the process.) Oram, on the other hand, has David watching over him the entire time. The ones that get Kane in Alien are at least decades old, look different, and are potentially not even related. The actual inconsistency is between what we are shown in all the films and fans' insistence that the alien must take 24 hours because there was a line of dialogue somewhere.
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Aug 21, 2017 18:53
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David created another species of alien completely different but look exactly the same. Expect for the walking around standing up they do now, Thanks Ridley Scott!
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Aug 21, 2017 19:06
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Halloween Jack posted:The movie implies that she was kept alive, maybe for years, as some mutant living womb. Like in Slither but over a longer period of time. I'd rather be vivisected and harvested for organs. That's a hell of a loving "would you rather," I've gotta admit.  ninja edit: I didn't get that vibe from the movie, though, because what you see in the movie is that Shaw was basically cracked open and hollowed out. She's not like, horrifically distended or anything that would imply any Slither business, she's just... missing all of her inside bits.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:17
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's not inconsistency. It's mere difference.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:19
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Snowman_McK posted:Is your problem the incubation time or the time it took to plant? You're using them interchangably. The incubation time is marginally shorter or longer, but also non-specified in any of the other films (yes, you can extrapolate roughly 24 hours, but it's really not spelled out) the planting time is perhaps shorter, or longer, but we've also never seen a face hugger cut off before. We don't actually know at which stage, at which mark of time, it does the actual implanting. The coma may just be so the host is unable to do anything to avoid their fate. Considering that this is a movie where spores can infect you with a chest-burster, I don't think "it laid an egg too fast" is something to worry about.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:06
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The big takeaway from the Prometheus movies is that the xenomorph is this multifarious, demonic avatar of fecundity rather than a discrete species of bug with a predictable life cycle.
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Aug 21, 2017 22:28
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Ferrinus posted:The big takeaway from the Prometheus movies is that the xenomorph is this multifarious, demonic avatar of fecundity rather than a discrete species of bug with a predictable life cycle. And even that isn't a lesson so much as the self-evident quality of every time the monster has appeared in previous movies. There is precisely one chestburster in Alien. It comes out at dinner after (more or less) a day, but the important part is that it comes out at dinner when the characters are yucking it up about how they're on their way home and poo poo, not that it took more or less a day. In Aliens, there is precisely one chestburster. It emerges when the marines are storming the nest, and we have no idea how long it's been since the lady was impregnated. But the important thing is that it comes out when the marines are the most out of their element, not how long the lady's been waiting there. In Alien 3, there are two chestbursters. One comes out of a dog/bull more or less within half a day, and the other doesn't come out until the very end right as Ripley is committing suicide. But the important thing is that the first emerges when nobody is looking, and the second emerges just after the person carrying it decides to kill herself; not how long it technically took between this birth and the impregnation. In Alien Resurrection, there are two chestbursters. One does not burst from a chest, but is surgically removed. The other does not emerge until the very end of the movie, whereas the person carrying it has been repressing it the whole time, and lets it loose in order to kill a bad guy. Again, the time it takes is of no consequence. The AVP films have by far the most chestbursters (especially Requiem), but also, consequently, the shortest gestation cycle that we know of, because it previously was a matter of dramatic motivation, and the exact time was not pertinent.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:23
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I think for some people, the super-fast gestation period seems weird because of how drastically fast it seems, but really the Alien is already an impossible nightmare-creature that defies science and explanation so yeah, it doesn't seem that out of place when you step back and look at it in context. If anything, Lope's barely-there facehugger feels more out of place for me because the movies have been reasonably consistent that the facehugger spends a not-insignificant amount of time on its victim, and in the very first movie Ash takes time to study how the facehugger is keeping Kane alive while simultaneously pumping god knows what into Kane's body. Yeah you can handwave Lope's non-facehugging as being the same logic as the quick gestation period - it's a space monster we can't explain - but it just feels like a cheat in this case. In the audio commentary, Ridley Scott says the whole reason Lope's Alien even shows up is to have a "4th act" conflict, like the one in the first movie with the Alien on the Narcissus. The problem I have with it is that it doesn't feel earned, it feels like it's twisting its own internal logic for the sake of another scare or action setpiece. It doesn't come across as thrilling or scary, it feels confusing, as if I've caught the man behind the curtain trying to do some sleight of hand.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:44
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I wish it was revealed that David smuggled a facehugger (fully formed) on to the ship to impregnate lope. That whole final scene is not great honestly.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:54
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K. Waste posted:The AVP films have by far the most chestbursters (especially Requiem), but also, consequently, the shortest gestation cycle that we know of, because it previously was a matter of dramatic motivation, and the exact time was not pertinent. In the avp movies, they do show time passing IE stuck in a hole or the hunters out in the forest. In Aliens, they make it to the colony right after it fell because there was a person about to burst.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:08
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Vakal posted:The aliens emerging as just miniature versions of their final finals rather than worm like larval things was more upsetting to me personally. I love Covenant but that part made me lol, I expected it to start doing the "HELLO MY BABY" dance.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:11
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I think that moment was lol-worthy and really quite inspired. It's one of those things where I'm on the same page as CP in that we've both been waiting for a movie character who thinks the aliens are as adorable and awesome as we do. That scene is just all those desires condensed into a few precious seconds, it's like alien fan crack. Tenzarin posted:In the avp movies, they do show time passing IE stuck in a hole or the hunters out in the forest. Yes, all of the films show time passing and all of them present a reasonable contrivance as to why a chestburster would appear at a particular moment. The only rule is the dramatic motivation for the alien to appear, but there is no science. Furthermore, there are very often hundreds of years between any of the individual movies. Even if we were confident about how long it takes an alien to gestate, how could we possibly know about their rate of evolution? In Alien: Resurrection, the aliens are clones with Ripley's DNA. Does that effect their gestation? In AVP, are the aliens 'roided up models specifically made by the impatient Predators? We don't know, and it doesn't matter.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:45
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Xenomrph posted:I think for some people, the super-fast gestation period seems weird because of how drastically fast it seems, but really the Alien is already an impossible nightmare-creature that defies science and explanation so yeah, it doesn't seem that out of place when you step back and look at it in context. The movies have been consistent about what facehuggers do when left to their own devices, but not about what the bare minimum required to trigger alien gestation is. It's wrongheaded to conclude that just because a facehugger likes to linger that it has to linger, or that the lingering isn't just there to turn a 30% chance into a 98% chance or whatever. Furthermore, as K. Waste says, it's questionable to assume that all facehuggers across all movies work the same way and have not evolved any. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 00:55
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Covenant's funniest contribution to alien canon is that facehuggers are just 'clingy.' If they can't stick it in all the way, they'll try to settle for just the tip. Gross little fuckers.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:20
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precision posted:I love Covenant but that part made me lol, I expected it to start doing the "HELLO MY BABY" dance. Minor toy chat derail:   Look at that little dude! D'awww  Movie talk, I wish they hadn't messed with the chestburster design but I get why they did it (and Ridley Scott talks about it in the commentary) - the point is to demonstrate that the Alien is a thinking, learning creature even seconds after birth, and that that component of it is just as dangerous as its raw physical prowess.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:26
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Ferrinus posted:The big takeaway from the Prometheus movies is that the xenomorph is this multifarious, demonic avatar of fecundity rather than a discrete species of bug with a predictable life cycle.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:34
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Halloween Jack posted:It's Irish? In Spaceballs, that's a whole gag. The exacerbated but polite Brit, John Hurt is upstaged by this Tin Pan Alley figure. It's just One Froggy Evening, but with the trucker from space. Double feature idea: Dark Star and Spaceballs
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Aug 22, 2017 01:44
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Ferrinus posted:The movies have been consistent about what facehuggers do when left to their own devices, but not about what the bare minimum required to trigger alien gestation is. It's wrongheaded to conclude that just because a facehugger likes to linger that it has to linger, or that the lingering isn't just there to turn a 30% chance into a 98% chance or whatever. Furthermore, as K. Waste says, it's questionable to assume that all facehuggers across all movies work the same way and have not evolved any. Even if it only takes a second to lay the egg, the facehugger staying attached helps keep the host body safe until the chest burster has had some time to develop.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:49
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There's also a very quick shot where the cut-off facehugger retracts its.. proboscis, such that you'd presume it was used, but it passes too quickly in an action scene for most people to notice in the theatre, I suspect. 
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Aug 22, 2017 01:56
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Xenomrph posted:Minor toy chat derail: Yeah these figures rule. I'll do a picture dump in a bit. I took a bunch of stuff for them.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:28
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Flappy Bert posted:There's also a very quick shot where the cut-off facehugger retracts its.. proboscis, such that you'd presume it was used, but it passes too quickly in an action scene for most people to notice in the theatre, I suspect. I spotted it the first time and was very pleased with myself.
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Aug 22, 2017 03:18
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