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I'm qualified throigh US Sailing for small boats and I still can't tie a goddamn bowline knot to save my life. My mind simply does not retain or comprehend that knot. Goddamn bunnies and trees, it makes no sense.
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Aug 23, 2017 15:35
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I can't even begin to tell you how many man hours we lose in the Bees due to not knowing bowlines
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Aug 23, 2017 15:41
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maffew buildings posted:I can't even begin to tell you how many man hours we lose in the Bees due to not knowing bowlines Son let me explain the bowlines and the bees to you. You see when an idiot enlisted and a stripper love each other very much they start getting ideas about knots in the barracks room...
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Aug 23, 2017 15:52
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The Valley Stared posted:The Stand Down with Rear Admiral Williamson was brutal. It took an aviator to say that he didn't understand why we were watching a powerpoint presentation on BRM (the topic at the time was the SPS/73 Radar) because he couldn't figure out what it had to do with the collisions. That got the enlisted and JOs talking, and we started to stress the lack of formal training on how to actually use radars, how we as combat watchstanders are constantly asked by AZ to get updates on casreps, ship schedules, and other BS and not actually being allowed to STAND THE WATCH. When I read this part, I was like "oh gently caress, that's pretty ridiculous". And then I got to this part... The Valley Stared posted:Admiral Aucoin also made a very unnecessary and frankly uncalled for comment saying that if you lose steering in a major shipping lane, then there should be a casualty procedure for that. ...and I was loving steaming. Now I don't feel bad about the cocksucker getting relieved. Talk about out of touch. I get that he's an NFO in the SWO world, I also get that as a 3* fleet commander he's so far removed from all of that poo poo...but it sounds like he has zero appreciation for the day to day realities of life at sea. The last time he deployed as a JO was probably close to 2 decades ago, and I'm sure he was getting his 8 hours while ship's company was dragging rear end. gently caress everything about this. Williamson sounds like a moron, too. buttplug fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 15:56
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At quarters yesterday they told us to stand by to lose a training day because of a potential safety stand-down about the JCS. I'm an instructor in Great Mistakes. 
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Aug 23, 2017 16:19
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:At quarters yesterday they told us to stand by to lose a training day because of a potential safety stand-down about the JCS. I'm an instructor in Great Mistakes. Oooh got any stories about the current crop?
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Aug 23, 2017 16:54
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LingcodKilla posted:Oooh got any stories about the current crop? Had a kid in the 3M lab, where we teach them how to run tags. There's a station with lights and valves and we assign you one to tag out. If one of the lights is out, well, that's the one you need to tag out. This dude sees the light out and just starts flipping breakers like they are light switches. Set the land speed record for getting sent to Chiefs office to get yelled at.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:11
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Yeah I've seen articles asking if the chinese hacked the ship (the answer is no). I know there have been proofs of concept about hacking AIS, but AIS isn't being used as a primary means of navigation (I loving hope). If GPS goes down there's likely two scenarios. 1) the ship loses it's connection to GPS, switch to other means (qualified bridge crew should be able to lay a paper fix down and get a track going in half of the current fix interval which varies depending on the situation...in the strait like that, it's probably 3 or 5 minute fixes). You can also use radio direction finding to get lines of bearing and range either TO you (from say a SLQ-32) or from you (broadcasting and having a ship with a working GPS give you a position). Hell, before all that there are likely a hundred other GPS enabled devices on the ship, I pissed off some navigation drill evaluators during a "loss of GPS drill" when I pulled my phone out and used that for a position. 2) the entire GPS network goes down, GPS on all devices fails to work. If you're within sight or radar range of land, you can use paper navigation, if not, you can bust out a sextant but to be fair if you're out of sight of land chances of running into another boat is low, post extra lookouts.
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Aug 23, 2017 19:22
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but how does this defeat terrorism?
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Aug 23, 2017 19:28
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Proud Christian Mom posted:but how does this defeat terrorism? They don't feel like they have to try anymore and so they stop.
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Aug 23, 2017 19:38
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Elendil004 posted:Yeah I've seen articles asking if the chinese hacked the ship (the answer is no). I know there have been proofs of concept about hacking AIS, but AIS isn't being used as a primary means of navigation (I loving hope). If GPS goes down there's likely two scenarios. This is exactly right, and ships even drill loss of various sensors all the time. There are so many options available to get a good fix and track where you are both paper and electronic that there's zero good reason for losing any one of them, especially GPS, to cause a bridge team much worry. GPS can be off by a non-trivial amount anyways so it shouldn't be your only fix in a close proximity situation anyways. They would have had people taking regular visual and electronic fixes while transiting the strait anyways, however that's completely irrelevant to the JSM collision. If they had ran aground because they had been dead reckoning for hours without good position input (sup port royal) then we could have a discussion even remotely about something being compromised or spoofed. JSM collided with another vessel. There's no navigational plot or anything GPS related to two vessels interacting. That's just loving looking at things and driving appropriately. If the JSM really did suffer a complete or even temporary loss of steerage there wasn't a whole lot that probably could have been done to keep her on course.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:58
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There's an AIS track of the other ship going straight until the collision so based on that it looks like the JSM cut in front. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrA36GzHNs
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Aug 23, 2017 21:31
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It is extremely  to me that their AIS wasn't broadcasting, especially at the entrance to a TSS.TSS entrances are loving nightmares.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:42
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Elendil004 posted:There's an AIS track of the other ship going straight until the collision so based on that it looks like the JSM cut in front. That does seem to indicate a mechanical failure to me because they were probably sailing next to each other for a bit and then the JSM cut hard in front. FrozenVent posted:It is extremely USN never broadcasts AIS.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:00
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Mr. Nice! posted:
And yet USNS ships sometimes do.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:03
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FWIW, the USN had already decided to start teaching how to use a sextant again, prior to these collisions. http://www.npr.org/2016/02/22/467210492/u-s-navy-brings-back-navigation-by-the-stars-for-officers Same for some brands of aviators. USAF took it out of navigator courses about 12 years ago, and it's coming back either now or soon.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:06
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How about how to lash together a bunch of pallets to create a steering mechanism? Actually a giant sea anchor would be cool to have but it would probably take up too much room. Crab Dad fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:10
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:At quarters yesterday they told us to stand by to lose a training day because of a potential safety stand-down about the JCS. I'm an instructor in Great Mistakes. Oh? Do you teach fc's/gm's or et's/ic's? I was the fc/gm lpo over there a few years ago. My brothers a Sami over at rtc where he gets off at 10am and it's an actual shore duty.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:15
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I mean a jammed rudder or something like that in the middle of the SoM is pretty much worst case scenario for almost any ship. Imagine any one of those dozens and dozens of AIS tracks that represents a hugeass ship just started turning hard to port with zero indication. There's almost no way that a collision is avoided in that case.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:17
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PneumonicBook posted:Oh? FC. I've only been here a year, so I doubt we crossed paths.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:17
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I find it really hard to believe they don't have a battery backup for steering and possibly a manual way of doing it. If the 24v backup doesn't work though, manual steering takes time to work. I don't know whether navy ships use a rotary vane setup or a hydraulic ram, but I could see a valve getting jammed causing a hard turn. Even if you have guys there ready to go, it still takes time for manual steering to happen. There's a reason people were talking about the captains rear end in a top hat being puckered constantly during that kind of transit.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:18
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:FC. I've only been here a year, so I doubt we crossed paths. No we wouldn't have. You're dinq on MTS by the way 
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Aug 23, 2017 22:22
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Two Finger posted:I find it really hard to believe they don't have a battery backup for steering and possibly a manual way of doing it. If the 24v backup doesn't work though, manual steering takes time to work. The only civilian ships I've seen with battery back ups on the steering were cruise ships. Everything else was on the emergency gen but that only helps in a black out. If a steering pump ate it, or the servo cooked, welp. By the time you go local, you're hosed.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:23
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FrozenVent posted:The only civilian ships I've seen with battery back ups on the steering were cruise ships. Everything else was on the emergency gen but that only helps in a black out. Spot the guy who did his cadetship on cruise boats But yeah. Steering failure in those circumstances is A Bad Thing
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Aug 23, 2017 22:24
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Madurai posted:And yet USNS ships sometimes do. USNS is a civilian crew. Some have military members on board but they are overwhelmingly civilian. USN =/= USNS
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Aug 23, 2017 22:28
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Two Finger posted:Spot the guy who did his cadetship on cruise boats There are manual ways to operate steering locally and there was at least 1-2 people down in aft steering if the watches are still the same as they used to be. But even still takes time to diagnose and figure out the exact problem and if they're down to manual adjustment it's not possible to actively steer. DDGs have hydraulic rudders.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:31
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LordNad posted:USNS is a civilian crew. Some have military members on board but they are overwhelmingly civilian. USN =/= USNS Speaking of that, did y'all see a few days ago when they redesignated/reflagged the USNS Chesty to USS. I would post the USNI article on it but at work and 
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Aug 23, 2017 22:32
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Mr. Nice! posted:
They have the capability, and I've seen them broadcasting as US WARSHIP . If you go to a vessel tracking site and drop that in, you get results. Sometimes they do WARSHIP ### where the ### is the hull number Did it a bunch during the anti piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden Laranzu fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:37
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I know they can, but anytime they are it's an exception. Standard is do not broadcast.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:38
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Going through the strait of Malacca with the AIS not broadcasting is some insane poo poo. Edit: I mean if you're concerned about getting Cole'd, just make up an MMSI that starts with 538 and put in the name as MV STINGRAY GLORY or something
FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:39
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Mr. Nice! posted:I know they can, but anytime they are it's an exception. Standard is do not broadcast. Yeah true, was just sperging on the never claim
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Aug 23, 2017 22:39
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Nick Soapdish posted:Speaking of that, did y'all see a few days ago when they redesignated/reflagged the USNS Chesty to USS. I would post the USNI article on it but at work and http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/the-intel/sd-me-puller-commissioning-20170817-story.html
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Aug 23, 2017 22:47
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FrozenVent posted:Going through the strait of Malacca with the AIS not broadcasting is some insane poo poo. okay Stingray Glory would be an awesome name
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Aug 23, 2017 22:58
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Assuming for the sake of argument that it is some kind of mechanical/electrical/electronic/out of cheese failure, that something went dramatically wrong in the worst possible place for it, will a human being still be punished for that, because said human being should have foreseen that that particular thing would break? Does every catastrophe always have to have a culprit?
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Aug 23, 2017 23:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Assuming for the sake of argument that it is some kind of mechanical/electrical/electronic/out of cheese failure, that something went dramatically wrong in the worst possible place for it, will a human being still be punished for that, because said human being should have foreseen that that particular thing would break? Does every catastrophe always have to have a culprit? Is there such a thing as an unavoidable accident?
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Aug 23, 2017 23:32
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FrozenVent posted:Is there such a thing as an unavoidable accident?
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Aug 23, 2017 23:36
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Laranzu posted:Yeah true, was just sperging on the never claim I almost edited my post to reflect that. Was wondering if anyone would nitpick 
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Aug 24, 2017 00:18
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FrozenVent posted:Going through the strait of Malacca with the AIS not broadcasting is some insane poo poo. Why is it crazy? AIS is cool and all but it isn't everything. No vessel is losing track of a warship just because they aren't broadcasting AIS. There are armed gunners to deal with suicide boats. Anyone driving a ship around them in the strait shouldn't be paying attention to AIS over looking at the ships on the water anyways.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:22
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Laranzu posted:They have the capability, and I've seen them broadcasting as US WARSHIP . If you go to a vessel tracking site and drop that in, you get results. I once saw a US WARSHIP track off the coast of San Diego with a reported length of 330-something meters and beam of 100-something meters. With a bunch of aircraft circling overhead. Real mystery what that was.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:33
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Mr. Nice! posted:Why is it crazy? AIS is cool and all but it isn't everything. No vessel is losing track of a warship just because they aren't broadcasting AIS. There are armed gunners to deal with suicide boats. Anyone driving a ship around them in the strait shouldn't be paying attention to AIS over looking at the ships on the water anyways. Insane might be a little hyperbolic but he has a point. Why not broadcast your AIS in that scenario? You literally lose nothing by broadcasting AIS in a strait transit.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:41
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