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GEMorris posted:The "exhibit" was your own words about the necessity of universal basic income or other post-scarcity solutions. Why would you think that was necessary if you weren't afraid of the alternatives? You got me, I don't want people to die in the streets because of job scarcity. What's your point?
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Aug 22, 2017 04:11
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Kthulhu5000 posted:All I can say right now is this: if you're not designing your automated delivery vehicle to work in those parts of the US where the counters at gas stations, convenience stores, and fast restaurants are behind walls of bulletproof glass, then you're not really a serious company looking to change the automation game. A job that is so hazardous to life that they require bullet proofing seems like an argument FOR automation, not against it.
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Aug 22, 2017 15:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:A job that is so hazardous to life that they require bullet proofing seems like an argument FOR automation, not against it. I'm trying to think of a place I've been to recently that needed bullet proofing and the only thing I can think of is a gun range. Not even the local bank branches bother with bullet proofing, or jewelry shops for that matter. The dog whistle here is that automation can't work in poor/black neighborhoods, either because automatons can't withstand a mugging or because the robocop style killbots can't identify non-threatening targets that aren't white people.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:45
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Freakazoid_ posted:The dog whistle here is that automation can't work in poor/black neighborhoods, either because automatons can't withstand a mugging or because the robocop style killbots can't identify non-threatening targets that aren't white people. I like the idea that if the risk of murder is high enough we have to send human employees on delivery routes and can't use automation because of the risks to the robot.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:47
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Trabisnikof posted:I like the idea that if the risk of murder is high enough we have to send human employees on delivery routes and can't use automation because of the risks to the robot. The usual line here is that people would be more willing to rob an automated vehicle than hold up or hurt/kill a human driver. Which, yeah, kind of implies that the primary value of the human in the process is to act as a human shield for the property.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:10
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Freakazoid_ posted:I'm trying to think of a place I've been to recently that needed bullet proofing and the only thing I can think of is a gun range. Not even the local bank branches bother with bullet proofing, or jewelry shops for that matter. Veridian Dynamics strikes again. 
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Aug 23, 2017 00:46
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Paradoxish posted:The usual line here is that people would be more willing to rob an automated vehicle than hold up or hurt/kill a human driver. Which, yeah, kind of implies that the primary value of the human in the process is to act as a human shield for the property. But only robots, because they're robots, not other unattended machines like vending machines or street lights.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:06
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I would like to take a second to mention to readers of this thread in other countries that there 100% really are regions of the US where employees are kept in small bulletproof plexiglass boxes their entire shift and only interact with customers through a vent slot or even a microphone and airlock style transfer box and this isn't made up or fake and everyone treats it as normal and not super hosed up and insane that things are that way. If you are in Japan or Europe or Australia or something and ever need an example of how hosed up and crazy the US is mention to your friends that there is actual areas of the US where you buy fast food by talking to a guy behind a bullet shield who has to hand you your food by placing it in a box where one door won't open till his door is closed so that you don't shoot him through the food box.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:23
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Uh....is that really not a thing in other countries? Like, El Salvador doesn't have bulletproof glass on the bodega windows? No wonder the murder rate is so high.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:27
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Everyone in europe tell your friends that in the US and in El Salvador (maybe) that they keep employees in gun proof boxes and you have to slip your money in a weird little U shaped pit so you don't shoot the employee through the money hole when you give them money.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:50
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ElCondemn posted:But only robots, because they're robots, not other unattended machines like vending machines or street lights. Yes, no one ever fucks with a vending machine. Never happened before and will never happen ever. Also, I think it's cute that you keep talking about traffic lights while ignoring that light poles get vandalized or covered in ads all the loving time, and that's there's nothing to be gained from trying to damage the light itself. Use your head, and maybe address a few of my points about iPhones and the police rather than spreading bullshit straw men.
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Aug 23, 2017 02:14
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Solkanar512 posted:Yes, no one ever fucks with a vending machine. Never happened before and will never happen ever. Has anyone claimed that vending machines are never vandalized? The point is that nearly everything in society can be destroyed by motivated agents of chaos and it generally doesn't prevent most things from existing. Someone has destroyed a stop light before, but not often enough we can't use stop lights.
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Aug 23, 2017 02:20
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Solkanar512 posted:maybe address a few of my points about iPhones and the police I did address it, it's not my fault if you're only selectively reading responses. Also just so that we're clear, I wasn't creating a straw man, I was making a joke about the fact that you guys seem to think robots are more prone to vandalism and theft than other automated machines and unattended packages. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 02:28
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:A job that is so hazardous to life that they require bullet proofing seems like an argument FOR automation, not against it. Most pizza chains, last I checked, just opt to not deliver to certain areas at all (or only into a "safe zone" up to the borders of them), rather than try to finagle how to make a profit off of $20 and $30 of pizza at a time relative to the profit offset due to a driver quitting or getting shot. Somehow, I don't see a big rush to remedy this decision by spending thousands of dollars or more on automated vehicles that, engineered poorly, could still be lost or destroyed by someone with ill intent (like a jonesing drug addict) because they might have $50 worth of stuff in them that could be sold or exchanged for some smack. The lack of risk to human life would be worth it as a matter of principle, no doubt, but it's probably just easier for many businesses to cut their losses and not even bother with areas that, rightly or wrongly, are associated with high crime and potential violence. Freakazoid_ posted:I'm trying to think of a place I've been to recently that needed bullet proofing and the only thing I can think of is a gun range. Not even the local bank branches bother with bullet proofing, or jewelry shops for that matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkICZmB_C0Q That's not the only video from that guy like that, and I'm not casting judgement on the people in it one way or the other. But the fact that getting held up or killed is real-enough concern in these places that many businesses will invest in bulletproof glass barricades in turn says a lot about the social environment where that KFC is located. It's not everywhere, and it's not even every impoverished minority community, but it's probably the bottom-line reliability and security societal scenario that should be designed for. Somehow, I suspect all the automation zealots aren't interested in that; it's undoubtedly harder to do, ugly to consider, unglamorous like designing a garbage truck would be, and effective designs probably go against "friendly" aesthetics and all that poo poo. So you're probably only ever going to see automation take off in the "safest" places, where everyone is a hipster or nattily-dressed professional, gentrification has made everything all foo-foo and boutique, and people lack enough cares that they can be amused by a robot scuttling along with a rapidly cooling platter of gluten-free vegan pad thai for some techbro Ruby developer. This will be the end result of automation, now that I think about it - it will mark what is and isn't "America", which will probably follow past racial and socioeconomic trends. If some hoodied man-boy doesn't like the idea of his cute lil' roborover maybe being damaged by desperate junkies and bored malcontents, or his techno-fetishism boner is wrecked by the thought of it rolling through urban decay, then it's not going to happen. So the usual communities get overlooked and neglected in terms of receiving the benefits from technical and socioeconomic progress, per usual. Trabisnikof posted:I like the idea that if the risk of murder is high enough we have to send human employees on delivery routes and can't use automation because of the risks to the robot. We currently send the human because it's cheaper than sending a robot. If you're a delivery company that pays $12 an hour in a $9 an hour city and maintains a constant hiring process, you can probably find someone desperate enough to risk deliveries to troubled neighborhoods. If they quit or (god forbid) get hurt, it's still pretty cheap and quick to replace them and keep that delivery process chugging along (so long as you recover the vehicle of course). Conversely, if an automated vehicle costs $10,000 per unit and has a lead time of anywhere from two weeks to three months to be built, then some aspiring automated delivery company is looking at spending a bunch of money and time to put in some backups and redundancy upfront, or having their business crippled by unit damage and loss. And on that note, the same time-and-cost concern applies even if there's no criminal activity. Paradoxish posted:The usual line here is that people would be more willing to rob an automated vehicle than hold up or hurt/kill a human driver. Which, yeah, kind of implies that the primary value of the human in the process is to act as a human shield for the property. That's pretty much the case. A delivery driver being held up or killed gives urgency to what would otherwise be a boring theft that would generate only minimal police interest.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:22
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Guavanaut posted:I was going to make some joke about how you could easily disrupt that industry by having an app that matches light aircraft pilots with spare seats to people who want to go where the pilot just happens to be going anyway technically that wouldn't be commercial aviation because they're not employees and the app pays them for some tangentially connected activity so actually no There was one of these briefly in the US. It was shutdown by the FAA because, no you assholes, that is commercial aviation https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/0/77E3D4B73DFDB22685257F1F005456E8/$file/14-1168-1589331.pdf
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Aug 23, 2017 12:40
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Kthulhu5000 posted:Most pizza chains, last I checked, just opt to not deliver to certain areas at all (or only into a "safe zone" up to the borders of them), rather than try to finagle how to make a profit off of $20 and $30 of pizza at a time relative to the profit offset due to a driver quitting or getting shot. I think you are correct that large areas of the US being in social chaos to the point pizza delivery is nonviable is a serious serious concern. I think America is currently on a very dark path, I honestly don't know if when I talk about the future I really mean in our country, I am not sure in 50 years that America is even going to be where it is today in social order and technological capacity. Like beyond the scope of this thread, It very well may be that in a generation the US really is going to be a failed state with struggles to have things like roads or hospitals or even pizza delivery let alone new advanced infrastructure. It may mean these future developments happen in Europe or Asia or maybe a failed US inevitably drags the world down in war or environmental ruin and there is no future at all. I think at this point every conversation about the world more than a year or two out require an implied "assuming the US does not fall to the diseases that are currently hollowing out it's ability to function as a society" . Fancy high tech robots delivering door to door might be a thing our kids read about happening in some future uplifted india while the US loses the ability to even deliver normal mail. I kinda accept that is a path we might be on.
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Aug 23, 2017 13:33
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Just because you don't like Trump and you think Charlottesville was WWIII or something doesn't make the US unlikely to deliver mail in the future. We delivered mail during the civil war. Sounds like you're depressed. India will be destroyed by climate change long before they have a chance to use these robots (and apparently you believe that Indian slums are safer than American pizza no-go areas because...)
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Aug 23, 2017 14:12
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Humans are painfully irrational. The coming of AI will be awesome if only for having somebody to talk that is not a literal irrational animal. Losing capitalism is a small sacrifice we will make. Whatever is next I hope is a fun thing.
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Aug 23, 2017 14:20
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call to action posted:Just because you don't like Trump and you think Charlottesville was WWIII or something doesn't make the US unlikely to deliver mail in the future. We delivered mail during the civil war. Sounds like you're depressed. The guy is right though, there are areas of the US that are parts of the US that are crumbled to the point something like a pizza delivery service is nonviable. I do hope it does get better, but it actually might not. I don't even mean we will collapse into sci-fi mad max, just, maybe it is true this is as far as the US is able to get and we end up like russia, a poor and crumbling country that never progressed past a certain point. Like it may well be that future tech and city planning and stuff ends up a thing Americans see on tv as a thing other places have and a lot of things that become basic infrastructure other places are just quirky novelties here. I do accept there might be certain things that simply can't work in the US that can work in other modern countries, and maybe 50 years from now that does transition to the US not standing as a modern country anymore.
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Aug 23, 2017 14:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The guy is right though, there are areas of the US that are parts of the US that are crumbled to the point something like a pizza delivery service is nonviable. I do hope it does get better, but it actually might not. I don't even mean we will collapse into sci-fi mad max, just, maybe it is true this is as far as the US is able to get and we end up like russia, a poor and crumbling country that never progressed past a certain point. Crime is low, economy is up, wage disparity is high but homelessness and death from disease is still low. It's not perfect but even with all the turmoil happening right now it's still pretty good. I think we can be hopeful about the future, our country isn't so hosed that pizza delivery is not viable for the vast majority.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:12
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call to action posted:(and apparently you believe that Indian slums are safer than American pizza no-go areas because...) India is also really weird with poverty, there could be a whole thread about it. Mumbai has the largest slum on earth with a million people making less than 600 dollars a year living in an area smaller than central park and Mumbai has a lower murder rate than some US cities and dharavi, which is the slum has a lower murder rate than mumbai in general. I've actually been there, there is no way to romanticize it as a good place, and I don't want to say anything that makes it sound like anything but the most terrible things on earth happen there every single day, but it's weird how extreme poverty manifests differently in different countries.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:51
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Long article on the Atlantic today about quote:Scenarios like this form the base for the company’s powerful simulation apparatus. “The vast majority of work done—new feature work—is motivated by stuff seen in simulation,” Stout tells me. This is the tool that’s accelerated the development of autonomous vehicles at Waymo, which Alphabet (née Google) spun out of its “moon-shot” research wing, X, in December of 2016.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:29
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It would be fun to be the guy who writes crazy unexpected events to happen in the tests, like a plane lands in front of you or something.
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Aug 23, 2017 23:04
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Mozi posted:It would be fun to be the guy who writes crazy unexpected events to happen in the tests, like a plane lands in front of you or something. A future where airports are obsolete because cars and planes are networked to the same system so any flat straight highway can be landed on by having the cars form a gap just large enough for a commercial jet to move on and then stopping at any common rest stop before taking off the same way.
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Aug 24, 2017 01:11
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Or a system where autonomous vehicles leave the road free for emergency services, like the mayor girlfriend volvo.
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Aug 24, 2017 14:20
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Ford and Domino's Pizza testing self driving pizza delivery cars https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/08/ford-and-dominos-are-experimenting-with-automated-pizza-deliveries/ For the test phase there will be a driver hidden behind tinted windows in the driver's seat, it's about monitoring the customer reactions. quote:Domino’s will monitor everything from delivery times and customer satisfaction, to where customers touch the vehicle, how easy it is for them to remove the pizzas from the insulated compartment, how quickly they’re able to punch in the code, and if they’re able to keep their hands off the car’s valuable lidar systems spinning atop the vehicle.
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Aug 29, 2017 16:12
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Rastor posted:Ford and Domino's Pizza testing self driving pizza delivery cars Just wait till you see what KFC is doing with employee training and VR!
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Aug 29, 2017 16:13
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Rastor posted:Ford and Domino's Pizza testing self driving pizza delivery cars I hope that thing is handicap accessible.
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Aug 29, 2017 17:07
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Tei posted:Humans are painfully irrational. The coming of AI will be awesome if only for having somebody to talk that is not a literal irrational animal. The machine Big Other, judgement will be automated. And now I'm sad.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:21
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BrandorKP posted:The machine Big Other, judgement will be automated. Is natural to fear anything strange or new. But that stranger can be a new friend, too. But is not a stranger, we will build these machines ... they will not come from space, they will be a creation of our mind, like we are a creation of our mother uterus. They will be our mind childs.
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Aug 31, 2017 12:31
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Solkanar512 posted:I hope that thing is handicap accessible. For handicapped people and shut-ins, select cars will be equipped with TMNT Pizza Shooters (tm) http://i.imgur.com/aK2zpY2.gifv
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Aug 31, 2017 13:10
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It's not the machine part that particularly worries me. It's the "Big Other" part.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:18
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https://twitter.com/evdz/status/904063910931816452
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Sep 2, 2017 22:05
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https://twitter.com/SaeedBaygi/status/905420903420268544
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Sep 6, 2017 14:27
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The future of autonomous cars is here:
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Sep 13, 2017 22:30
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Ars reporter tries on the car seat costume: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/i-sat-in-the-seat-suit-of-fords-fake-self-driving-car/
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Sep 13, 2017 23:09
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Robots growin' barley: https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/industrial-robots/autonomous-robots-plant-tend-and-harvest-entire-crop-of-barley quote:During the Hands Free Hectare project, no human set foot on the field between planting and harvest—everything was done by robots. This includes:
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Sep 14, 2017 02:13
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Now all they need to do is run the barley through an automated malting system and then through an automated brewing system.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:17
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Kekekela posted:Robots growin' barley: That seems like a dumb metric to measure cost. Like of course it was going to cost a ton if you bought a whole new tractor for a tiny test crop. That doesn't seem to tell anything at all about the price.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:01
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withak posted:Now all they need to do is run the barley through an automated malting system and then through an automated brewing system. Modern agriculture is really at the forefront of a lot of this automation technology. Modern tractors are already highly autonomous and ag is probably the number one user of commercial uav systems as well. Being able to drive back and forth on a square plot of laser leveled private land involves requires jumping much lower technical and regulatory hurdles than demanded by public roads.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:27
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