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i didn't go back and read if there was any discussion about it, but i know a pastor who used to serve near charlottesville. they would go into town there to the university hospital to visit sick parishioners. i was curious how they were doing, and i was hoping they weren't too bummed out. but i think they're ok...a couple days after it, they sent me a video via facebook. it was just the clip from the blues brothers movie
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Aug 24, 2017 02:54
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There's an appreciable kind of humor that comes from living in the Last Days
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Aug 24, 2017 03:08
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i give much respect to the clergy and other people of faith who peacefully got roughed up by the shitheads that day. i thought i was a huge badass when my protest sign got blown away by a military helicopter that one time, but i've never locked arms and hunkered down to try and stop a bunch of armed 4channers from assembling in a park. it really opened my eyes and i feel the need to be more active, personally, since reading their stories
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Aug 24, 2017 03:20
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Bel_Canto posted:sorry i really really don't like trad twitter I take it you're not a fan of tradical It's always seemed weird to me that the left will find multitudinous hills to form circular firing squads on while the alt-right is generally okay with each other as long as you're real real fuckin' racist. Like what the hell would a Catholic monarchist and a transhumanist libertarian have in common, politically.
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Aug 24, 2017 04:17
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I met with a priest today. He gave me a copy of the Catechism and told me to read the whole thing, so I will (actually that's not true he said there was an easy way and a hard way to get into catholicism and I took the hard way because it had more theology) Anyway, there's something I've been feeling. As you all know, I am not cradle Catholic or Orthodox. I was raised Baptist. At this time, I feel like Catholicism is a good place for me to be on a spiritual level. HOWEVER I also feel like an rear end in a top hat because I don't see the faith the same as someone raised in the church. They have the correct view of the faith and I do not. I also feel like I will never become true Catholic because of this What do you think
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Aug 24, 2017 04:43
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As a lapsed Catholic who was raised in the church, I don't really think it's that unique of an experience. Just practice kneeling and standing up a few times and you'll have matched the main things I got out of it. I'm not exactly the right person to ask about this, admittedly, since my faith is super dubious as it is
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Aug 24, 2017 04:59
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Smoking Crow posted:I met with a priest today. He gave me a copy of the Catechism and told me to read the whole thing, so I will I was raised in and still am in the Catholic Church. I reckon that no two peoples' faith is the same. I am closer to my wife than to any other person, but even we each have our own personal longing for God. Please be welcome into your Church as you are. If anyone makes you feel like an rear end in a top hat, either in person or in your head, tell me their name. I will fight them.
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Aug 24, 2017 05:06
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Smoking Crow posted:HOWEVER I also feel like an rear end in a top hat because I don't see the faith the same as someone raised in the church. They have the correct view of the faith and I do not. I also feel like I will never become true Catholic because of this imo go with the path that you think will help you along your journey in the most enlightening and positive way. specifically for Christianity it's helpful to remember that none of the apostles nor hardly anyone in the early church was raised in the faith
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Aug 24, 2017 05:09
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Smoking Crow posted:Anyway, there's something I've been feeling. As you all know, I am not cradle Catholic or Orthodox. I was raised Baptist. At this time, I feel like Catholicism is a good place for me to be on a spiritual level. HOWEVER I also feel like an rear end in a top hat because I don't see the faith the same as someone raised in the church. They have the correct view of the faith and I do not. I also feel like I will never become true Catholic because of this I'm not quite a cradle Catholic, but I'm from a Catholic family and was baptized as a kid. People still constantly tell me I have wrong view about the faith (and everything else). So don't worry about it
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Aug 24, 2017 05:39
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I've been called out for trying to understand Catholicism via its rules and legalism, which was kind of bewildering to me because that's the part I liked. 
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Aug 24, 2017 05:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I've been called out for trying to understand Catholicism via its rules and legalism, which was kind of bewildering to me because that's the part I liked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't christianity's whole deal that the NT dissolved the faith as a religion of ,laws and turned it into a religion of faith? (I'm taking religion 101, and that's what I was told, be gentle  )
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Aug 24, 2017 06:08
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The Phlegmatist posted:I take it you're not a fan of tradical Tradical is really strange: a weird mixture of really bad trad takes and honestly funny jokes made by someone who's too Catholic to actually become a Catholic  Tias posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't christianity's whole deal that the NT dissolved the faith as a religion of ,laws and turned it into a religion of faith? Well, yes and no. My understanding is that the OT laws were universally instituted by God and were also lifted by Him, whereas Catholic Canon Law distinguishes between ecclesiastical laws and divine natural law. The former is afaik the vast majority of the canons and includes stuff like clerical celibacy or minimum age requirements for marriage which can be ignored or even changed by your bishop or the Holy See, whereas the latter is absolute and immutable (unless you get creative in finding loopholes, that is) and includes stuff like siblings not being allowed to marry each other or Canon 331 saying that “[b]y virtue of his office [the Pope] possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.“ So most of the Catholic rules-lawyering is human in origin (which is not to say that it's bad or unnecessary!) and only indirectly comes from God.
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Aug 24, 2017 08:02
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Thanks! This class gets better and better, my teachers smart screen had not had autocorrect turned off and it turned the Danish word for old testament into gin&tonic, for the full sentence "The jewish solution to salvation = Gin and Tonic" 
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Aug 24, 2017 09:45
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Smoking Crow posted:HOWEVER I also feel like an rear end in a top hat because I don't see the faith the same as someone raised in the church. They have the correct view of the faith and I do not. I also feel like I will never become true Catholic because of this I thought most people raised in the Catholic church are actually less educated about its theological dimension than those who join it later. Most of us have never opened the catechism and religious education (at least here in Germany) tried to underplay any of the complex rules or overly supernatural elements of the faith. It was more like: "Jesus was an awesome dude who probably even existed! Let's look at some historical sources. Also there are the 7 sacraments, but don't sweat it, we're gonna talk about those in detail when it's time for each of them". Excluding the old people (who were lashed in school when making mistakes in reciting the catechism) and a few devout youngsters, most of the fellow Catholics I met had a rather relaxed / half-assed view of the faith, like "well there's the kneeling, standing, singing that you learn habitually, then there's the basic truth of the faith (Jesus is the Christ, dat's cool - also trinity?!), maybe some Saints and the Virgin Mary who are kinda rad, and then there are the nice social aspects of hanging out in the parish." Also some of the knowledgeable, devout old ladies are doing old school folk magic that would have gotten them into serious trouble a few centuries ago without seeing it in any way clashing with the rest of their faith - things are fluid. Same for people venerating 'illegal' Saints like St. Guinefort - is it incorrect? Might be, but he's such a good boy! So it's all good, don't feel like you don't have a 'correct' view  edit: Historically I would say, being a "true Catholic" effectively meant "upholding the basic core of the Faith while trying to get away with as much superstitious & fun stuff as you could when the priest's not looking your way." SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 09:54
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Smoking Crow posted:I met with a priest today. He gave me a copy of the Catechism and told me to read the whole thing, so I will HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 10:19
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I took Augustine as my confirmation saint specifically because I liked how he represented the super intellectual side of the faith and his mother the more personal and spiritual and yet they're both saints (also because he was shithead as a teenager but turned out all right in the end, which makes him a really good confirmation saint)
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Aug 24, 2017 14:23
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Having been raised Catholic myself, and gone through the Catholic school system (at least from 4th grade forward), I cannot say I got a very solid grounding in Catholic practice. It honestly wasn't until I became Episcopalian that I began to learn about and appreciate Catholic spirituality and practice. That said, I know the feeling. When I decided to try Orthodoxy, one reason I went with the Greek parish was because I figured there'd be more cradle Orth's there. I wanted to be around people who'd grown up in Orthodoxy and gotten comfortable with it. Half of it turned out to be converts anyway, but I still like the vibe there.
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Aug 24, 2017 14:46
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The Phlegmatist posted:I take it you're not a fan of tradical tradical is a homophobic and low-key racist asshat who thinks that wanting to be catholic someday imparts the same grace as baptism. i was, at one time, in a group DM that he was in and had to stop because it was too infuriating. i made a crack once about how he's not a trad because to be a trad you have to be catholic, and he sicced his weirdo nazi catholic buddies on it. i don't have time for people who pal around with fascists
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Aug 24, 2017 16:02
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He's no Woke Space Jesuit, that's for sure.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:30
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I tried to think of a funny joke accompanying the photo, but to no avail  
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Aug 24, 2017 18:08
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Tias posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't christianity's whole deal that the NT dissolved the faith as a religion of ,laws and turned it into a religion of faith? The New Perspective on Paul has really changed this in the past three decades or so, because they reject the notion that first-century Judaism in Palestine was actually legalistic or focused on works-righteousness, and Paul, in talking about "works of the law" was simply reassuring gentile converts that they, too, were children of God without needing to have the external signs of the covenant (circumcision, mainly.) "Judaism was based on salvation through following the law and Christianity was based on salvation through faith" should immediately throw off some alarm bells regardless, because it's a very obviously Protestant idea and first-century Jews didn't really have the idea of individual salvation -- the Pharisees took on stricter laws than were commanded to hasten the coming of the Messiah who would save all the Israelites, not just themselves.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:17
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The Phlegmatist posted:Like what the hell would a Catholic monarchist and a transhumanist libertarian have in common, politically. Hatred of poor people, barely concealed racism, and a tendency to intellectual posturing un-backed by study or rigorous reasoning, for a start.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:44
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Everyone made fun of Rick Perry praying for rain but now we know prayer works fam. For real though America needs your prayers right now 'cause this is going to be really bad. Not sure if there's a patron saint of appointing a competent FEMA director though.
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Aug 25, 2017 04:29
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The Phlegmatist posted:Everyone made fun of Rick Perry praying for rain but now we know prayer works fam. The mayor of one of the cities in the hurricane's path declined to issue evacuation orders on the basis that people don't need the government telling them what to do and can decide for themselves.
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Aug 25, 2017 04:45
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Cythereal posted:The mayor of one of the cities in the hurricane's path declined to issue evacuation orders on the basis that people don't need the government telling them what to do and can decide for themselves. I.. what. Like, how is this not a federal offense? The Phlegmatist posted:The New Perspective on Paul has really changed this in the past three decades or so, because they reject the notion that first-century Judaism in Palestine was actually legalistic or focused on works-righteousness, and Paul, in talking about "works of the law" was simply reassuring gentile converts that they, too, were children of God without needing to have the external signs of the covenant (circumcision, mainly.) Thanks, interesting stuff! But I was also told that Jesus' followers positions was that the jews had failed to live up to the old covenant, so I think I get now why the pharisees were so pissy with them 
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Aug 25, 2017 05:37
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So like, how would I break it to my orthodox friends that I'm sort of catholic now, they won't be happy
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Aug 25, 2017 13:07
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You're still Orthodox, you just switched to the Patriarchate of Rome. 
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Aug 25, 2017 14:12
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Smoking Crow posted:So like, how would I break it to my orthodox friends that I'm sort of catholic now, they won't be happy if they're spergy enough to dislike you for converting, either don't tell them or just don't be friends with them
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Aug 25, 2017 14:33
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Tias posted:I.. what. Like, how is this not a federal offense? Because America, baby. This is what happens when a city elects a sincere Libertarian mayor. He may get the poo poo sued out of him afterwards and will probably not be up for re-election, but note that a non-trivial number of Americans blame Obama for Hurricane Katrina and the response afterwards (hint: Obama wasn't president at the time), a chunk will blame Obama for this one, and the cheetoh golem in the White House who's fueled by narcissism is going to be the big cheese dealing with this disaster. Yeah, it's gonna be bad.
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Aug 25, 2017 14:43
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HEY GAIL posted:this is not true. rodrigo diaz and i had this conversation once: i said cradle orthodox was better because he had more of a "gut feeling" for orthodoxy and he said convert was better because i was moved to study more. both have strengths. the earliest orthodox and catholics were not born in the faith. 
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Aug 26, 2017 09:20
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HEY GAIL posted:this is not true. rodrigo diaz and i had this conversation once: i said cradle orthodox was better because he had more of a "gut feeling" for orthodoxy and he said convert was better because i was moved to study more. both have strengths. the earliest orthodox and catholics were not born in the faith. My position on this has shifted a little, in part because I've met a lot of converts who have used their wider reading to make disingenuous arguments in favor of positions they personally prefer. This is especially common from Catholic Twitter, I'm sad to say. Everything Bel Canto said about tradical is right. StashAugustine posted:I took Augustine as my confirmation saint specifically because I liked how he represented the super intellectual side of the faith *scoffs loudly*  While I'm here stirring poo poo: https://twitter.com/DOGGEAUX/status/900933126074974208
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Aug 26, 2017 10:18
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This rules but the Italian Renaissance started in the 14th c, not after 1453. Also feel like the 2nd to last & last Catholic ones should switch places.
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Aug 26, 2017 10:45
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:This is especially common from Catholic Twitter, I'm sad to say. Everything Bel Canto said about tradical is right.
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Aug 26, 2017 11:42
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:This rules but the Italian Renaissance started in the 14th c, not after 1453.
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Aug 26, 2017 11:43
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HEY GAIL posted:not disputing that we started it though We didn't any more than any range of other factors. It was partly exogenous but Middle Greek influence is not that high on the list. HEY GAIL posted:why do you think i converted? you can't have the old liturgy without a billion protonazis scuttling out of the woodwork There's a fair few for real nazis in Orthodoxy but thankfully they're largely confined to Eastern Europe and the Balkans for now.
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Aug 26, 2017 14:55
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:My position on this has shifted a little, in part because I've met a lot of converts who have used their wider reading to make disingenuous arguments in favor of positions they personally prefer. This is especially common from Catholic Twitter, I'm sad to say. Everything Bel Canto said about tradical is right. on the flip side, i've known plenty of converts who settled in perfectly well. i think a key difference is whether they have access to and participate in a faith community from the early stages of their conversion. my friend whom i sponsored this past easter came to the catholic church after a long journey from his baptist upbringing through mainline protestantism and finally to catholicism, but he regularly associated with catholics and, at our encouragement, prioritized getting answers from living people rather than the internet. in my experience the catholic converts who have serious problems are the ones for whom it's been a purely intellectual exercise devoid of sacramental and communal life. learning to "think with the church" isn't some mystical process, though obviously i think grace plays a key role. but it IS a process of living and participating in a catholic community, and when someone is converting without that process, you get weird poo poo, and at the far end you get someone like tradical who's LARPing being a catholic while refusing to get baptized b/c he's like, choosing the "right" parish or some poo poo
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Aug 26, 2017 15:25
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Bel_Canto posted:on the flip side, i've known plenty of converts who settled in perfectly well. i think a key difference is whether they have access to and participate in a faith community from the early stages of their conversion. my friend whom i sponsored this past easter came to the catholic church after a long journey from his baptist upbringing through mainline protestantism and finally to catholicism, but he regularly associated with catholics and, at our encouragement, prioritized getting answers from living people rather than the internet. in my experience the catholic converts who have serious problems are the ones for whom it's been a purely intellectual exercise devoid of sacramental and communal life. learning to "think with the church" isn't some mystical process, though obviously i think grace plays a key role. but it IS a process of living and participating in a catholic community, and when someone is converting without that process, you get weird poo poo, and at the far end you get someone like tradical who's LARPing being a catholic while refusing to get baptized b/c he's like, choosing the "right" parish or some poo poo For what it's worth, to me church community has always mattered far more than theology. I don't sweat the fine print and I don't think God does either. I think what matters most is finding a healthy Christian community that works for you and is full of people who support you and whom you can support in turn.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:30
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Cythereal posted:For what it's worth, to me church community has always mattered far more than theology. I don't sweat the fine print and I don't think God does either. I think what matters most is finding a healthy Christian community that works for you and is full of people who support you and whom you can support in turn. yes, the church community is absolutely vital. what i think a lot of people don't get is that for catholics and orthodox, theology and community are inextricably intertwined with one another. the primary teacher of christian living is the christian community, and we are saved through our incorporation into the mystical body of Christ. even our hermits and anchorites existed historically in ways that connected them to the church and allowed their spiritual work to inform the life of the church and vice versa. for us, being a christian in isolation isn't just bad, it's totally nonsensical. i'd even go so far as to say that if the only place someone has learned catholic or orthodox theology is from books, they haven't actually learned anything.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:38
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Semi related: https://twitter.com/erlosungen/status/901425940462542848 I'm starting to wonder if WSJ reads this thread.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:46
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Half the time on r/Catholicism when they get someone wanting to convert they're told to go find an FSSP parish so they can skip RCIA. Wouldn't want the future foot soldiers of the culture war experiencing differences of practice in the lived Catholic faith I guess.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:48
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