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JcDent posted:Idk, the male armor shows an idealized male torso, so it makes sense that a female one would have a... female one? They should've made the Stormcast like the old Warrior Priests and given them helmets  It's just disappointing to me, as they've done some decent female plastics in the past including one of my favourites:  Funnily enough it's where the headswap is from on the stormcast above.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:I think the above examples are great, especially the middle one. If you really wanted to insist on it having a less "masculine" form, then just make it slightly thinner but otherwise keep it the same. And you can make it thinner without accentuating the hips or breasts or adding mid-drift. These really aren't even supposed to have humanity, right? So why would the women be sexualized? Brienne has been mentioned a few times and here's her sculpt in the new GoT mini game (albeit a render): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game/posts/1964110 Very similar dynamic pose to the sigmarines, even from that crappy zoomed out pick the mini reads clearly enough as female without boob plate or a waspish waist.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:43
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I dunno, they still need to eat and breathe, so who knows. Not the 12yo who scribbled the lore. Besides, irl militaries had to make special combat armor for women to account for the different proportions, so sigmarines might do that too. Unless Sigmar works like CAPITAL WASTELAND FEV virus.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:43
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JcDent posted:I dunno, they still need to eat and breathe, so who knows. Not the 12yo who scribbled the lore. The difference is that modern combat armor for women is designed to be more comfortable for a shorter individual with narrower shoulders and a tighter chest, not to be visually recognizable as a woman.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:58
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Jesus you guys
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Aug 21, 2017 15:26
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Nothing I've read about Sigmar would suggests he shares our modern sensibilities about boob-plate. It's kind of a weird line between "a company is designing this" and "this is the aesthetic of an ancient god's culture." They're idealized human forms, as idealized by Sigmar. That said, sports-bra plate seems to be a baby step in the right direction.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:27
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It's not as bad as it could be, and if Sisters were released with that style it'd be an improvement, but it's gonna look weird next to my lady Sigmars with the Statuesque head swaps. Also christ it's not that hard to see why she's sculpted with the tit plate, sculptors are thirsty as gently caress.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:29
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moths posted:Nothing I've read about Sigmar would suggests he shares our modern sensibilities about boob-plate. It's kind of a weird line between "a company is designing this" and "this is the aesthetic of an ancient god's culture." They're idealized human forms, as idealized by Sigmar. This is the same line of reasoning that says you can't have female space marines because the Emperor was totally a bro and the fluff says women just can't survive the procedure. The fluff is arbitrary and can be rewritten at any point. And as a thing I have to purchase, build, assemble, and look at, I ain't paying money for boob plate. Never have, never will. I don't care what the explanations or justifications for it are. If other people are happy with it or think that female models really need to look different than male models, whatever that means, it's their money to spend.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:31
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I'm ok with adding sexism to the long list of the Emperor of Mankind's wrongdoings. It is the same point, though. But I'll maintain that a progressive, inclusive "Emperor of Humanity" would be a good guy. But he'd be one cut from a different cloth than the archaic, morally problematic stand-in for patriarchy and tradition who's sat on the Golden Throne for 30 years. Bobby G and Cawl should absolutely handcraft some women marines. It seems like a good workaround.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:43
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It's really less about the fluff and trying to make a product that could realistically reach out to boys and girls to broaden the appeal of the hobby. It was brought up in the Kickstarter thread that the historic RPGs almost always have a line that says, "If your group wants a female warrior in a time period where this wasn't a common occurrence, here are some suggestions on how to make that happen or fit into the setting, or just go with whatever you guys want. It's your game!" whereas the it's the fantasy side that says, "NO GIRLS ALLOWED!" or only allows them if they're hyper-sexualized. And if you really need the fluff to justify men and women marines without making the Emperor look like a progressive feminist, then just add a line that says, "The Emperor didn't ever give a gently caress about any individual, man or woman, and just needed bodies for his warmachine. Dead, he'll devour any psychic soul regardless of gender and the Imperial bureaucracy doesn't have time to bother with sorting people based on their sexual organs. The Marine chapters are free to choose their candidates however they want using whatever bizarre rituals they've preserved over 10,000 years, meaning there are male chapters, female chapters, and mixed chapters in equal quantities." And then you write basically the same thing for Sigmar. Just because women and men are equally likely to be warriors and look basically the same as a Sigmarine doesn't mean Sigmar suddenly has to be viewing his recruitment numbers through the lens of a modern HR department. Whoever the best are, he brings back. Sometimes that's dudes, sometimes that's women.
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Aug 21, 2017 15:56
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Atlas Hugged posted:Sometimes that's dudes, sometimes that's women. And sometimes it's three skaven standing on each other's shoulders 
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Aug 21, 2017 15:58
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GW does seem to at least be trying to give a poo poo about this stuff in AoS. I completely agree with Atlas Hugged in that I think even these new models are still excessively sexualized, but I do feel like it's important to give the sculptors some credit here. I'd be flat out embarrassed to show people a lot of GWs older sculpts of women. Repentia, Dark Eldar slave... The list goes on. I actually really like the female hero model for Blightwater now though. I could definitely live without the boob plate, comparitively subdued as it is, but when taken as a whole the model looks like a badass warrior and not a sex object.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:06
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I feel like the big "NO GIRLS ALLOWED - The Emperor" sign does more to prompt good real world discussion than simply retconning it would. Adding lady marines would be dismissed as an artificial change to the fluff. Shitlords would attribute to more "pc gone mad" or "SJW" whatever. When 40k was conceptualized, women in the military was still a hot, controversial subject. I don't feel like paving over that contributes more than it eases. I would like to see that changed, but think it would be best to do it organically within the setting. Chapters already recruit werewolves and vampires FFS. A cannon chapter that figured out a workaround and recruits women warriors to be marines would be the best way IMO. Wow this got off topic fast. Sorry.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:21
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The biggest problem in my mind is how THICK the sigmarines are. They're these huge adolescent male power fantasies, so quite aside from looking silly of their own accord they read as pretty expressly male. Titplate aside, I'd be happier if they ALL trended slenderer like these lady stormcast - the proportions are just much better. These might even be able to sight down their bows!
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Aug 21, 2017 16:39
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I think they're supposed to evoke statues from antiquity. Which is a neat idea, but it's pretty weird for the setting when humanity never had a classical period.
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Aug 21, 2017 16:55
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Anyone have the new generals handbook yet.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:46
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moths posted:I feel like the big "NO GIRLS ALLOWED - The Emperor" sign does more to prompt good real world discussion than simply retconning it would. I think if anything, outside of this small corner of the internet, that conversation never really happens. It doesn't really matter if it does, either, because at the end of the day it's just a more complicated justification for why young women can't find representation in the hobby outside of the designated girl's chapter. If people actually raged about SJWs ruining their precious setting and left because of it, I would see that as a net positive if it meant that we inched closer to a 50:50 ratio. But we all know that GW can basically do whatever it wants and the core base will hang on through gritted teeth. Remember, it's 2017. It doesn't matter if women serving was an issue in the 80s. The kids buying their first set don't give a poo poo about that. They just want to look at a faction and see themselves in it and that's fairly difficult for girls at the moment.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:23
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Representation is a big deal for a lot of reasons, moral and business. I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how well the conversation in this thread has gone as most of the rest of the internet would have thrown a tantrum by now.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:30
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Here is a painted version of the Female Stormcast. Which has yet to be shown in the thread. I think the model looks fine, though I still dislike Stormcast helmets.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:36
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That's a different lady sigmarine.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:17
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It's the leader from the upcoming Blightwater box. I'm quite the fan of the model.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:21
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My wife has a small stormcast collection (painted a lovely purple). She is personally thrilled to see a feminine Stormcast. 
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Aug 22, 2017 02:52
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Yeah, I don't mind breast breast plates, though the Shadespire one looks like she has lazy Doc Thunder tits. The new one is better (and the helmet looks crap). Maybe the answer is stylized Lara Croft breat wedge plate? 
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Aug 22, 2017 23:02
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I'm so confused by all the books for Age of Sigmar after being out of the hobby for 10+ years. I get Battletomes. They are essentially codexes for each army. I think I get Warscrolls. Those are rules for older units and armies from WFB that don't and possibly won't have Battletomes? Then there's 4 Realmgate Wars, Battle Packs and Battleplans. Are these just campaigns? I know what Skirmish is. That's rules for small unit battles. Then there's Season of War, The General's Handbook and Path to Glory. If I just want the rules for Age of Sigmar do I just need the free base rules and the latest General's Handbook?
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Aug 22, 2017 23:42
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Rhaegar posted:I'm so confused by all the books for Age of Sigmar after being out of the hobby for 10+ years. I get Battletomes. They are essentially codexes for each army. I think I get Warscrolls. Those are rules for older units and armies from WFB that don't and possibly won't have Battletomes? Then there's 4 Realmgate Wars, Battle Packs and Battleplans. Are these just campaigns? I know what Skirmish is. That's rules for small unit battles. Then there's Season of War, The General's Handbook and Path to Glory. If I just want the rules for Age of Sigmar do I just need the free base rules and the latest General's Handbook? Battletomes = Codexes Realmgate wars are the initial books that came out before the Generals handbook, they are full of unpointed battalions and scenarios if you want to play a campaign that follows the story of the books. Path to glory is for Path to glory, it is a variant way to play where you roll for your units on a table and can roll for upgrades for units after games. It is unbalanced as gently caress, but really fun if you have a group who won't game it. But yeah, you need the newest generals handbook to play, the base rules will likely also be printed in the back of it
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Aug 23, 2017 00:19
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Only General's Handbook and a Battletome. The rules will be at the back of the book, since they reprint them in every book.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:13
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Rhaegar posted:I'm so confused by all the books for Age of Sigmar after being out of the hobby for 10+ years. I get Battletomes. They are essentially codexes for each army. I think I get Warscrolls. Those are rules for older units and armies from WFB that don't and possibly won't have Battletomes? Then there's 4 Realmgate Wars, Battle Packs and Battleplans. Are these just campaigns? I know what Skirmish is. That's rules for small unit battles. Then there's Season of War, The General's Handbook and Path to Glory. If I just want the rules for Age of Sigmar do I just need the free base rules and the latest General's Handbook? Pro-Tip: Don't do what I did and buy the current Generals Handbook, the new one's out on Saturday. Brain dump of what I've learned over the last 2 weeks or so. Rules are a free download (they're also in every printed bit of material about Age of Sigmar. e.g. Battletome, Generals Handbook, Skirmish books etc...) Warscrolls are a free download too = they're the rules and attributes for a model/unit/batallion and their weapons without points costs they can be downloaded for free individually from the model's page on the GW store site. e.g. find a model and on the right there's a link to a PDF file. e.g. Some tree dude's warscroll Battletome = Collection of Warscrolls and some background for a faction. For older fantasy stuff there are some free warscroll collections too. e.g. Orcs and Goblins 4 Top Level Alliances (Order, Chaos, Death, Destruction), you can build lists with models from each e.g. Skaven with Chaos Warriors and some Beastmen + Demons. Or Seraphon (Lizardmen) + Tree people and Dwarves etc.. There are Alliance level rules that apply to each of the 4 alliances. If you want to focus on a specific sub-faction e.g pure Khorne, or Serpahon then there are faction level rules that can be used instead. These are in the Battletomes, the Alliance level ones in the Generals Handbook. TLDR; - Get the £20 starter for printed rules and some models, or download the free rules pdf. Or grab a start collecting box and download the warscrolls for the models, they're great value. - Find some models, and download their corresponding warscrolls from the model's page on GW store. - (optional) If you want to play competitively/cost units and/or you want the Alliance (Order/Chaos/etc..) level rules and you'll need the Generals Handbook (wait until Saturday for improved version) - (optional 2) If you definitely want a pure sub-faction army e.g. Khorne, Flesh-Courts etc.. then you'll want the Battletome for their faction level rules but it's not necessary for the warscrolls as they're a free download. - (optional 2.1) They also contain Batallion (formation) rules for groups of units that are unique to that faction. Think that's it? EDIT: The £8 Skirmish rulebook is great and lets you play with a few models rather than entire units , Path to Glory rules is slightly larger scale campaign game than Skirmish with 2-3 units etc.. Both of those books also have the main rules in the back too, and some extra bits to play those versions with (campaign only wargear etc..) richyp fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:47
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Great post thank you. Going to pick up Warhammer Quest Silver Tower and Start Collecting Tzeentch this weekend to kickstart a AoS/W40k Tzeentch army. Will use the free rules and warscolls for now I think. Maybe the GW store will throw in the battletomb for free! Ha! Rhaegar fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 04:28
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One Weird Trick to GW is to actually buy FW stuff and really give the stuff you receive a good check. Their QA is a blind Scottish crone, so many pieces will have flaws - and they will ship you replacements free of charge.
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Aug 24, 2017 08:01
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richyp posted:Pro-Tip: Don't do what I did and buy the current Generals Handbook, the new one's out on Saturday.
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Aug 24, 2017 15:24
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berzerkmonkey posted:Do we know if the entire GHB 1 is invalidated, or will everything but the points values still be good? They mentioned on one of their twitch games that people/tournaments can use battle plans from both in their campaigns/tournaments (or forge your own narrative). But everything else I've heard them talk about is replaced or reproduced e.g. updated grand alliance bonuses, relics, general traits etc... And I think they may have redone some warscrolls too even though the old GHB didn't have any
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Aug 24, 2017 15:34
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Finished the Saurus Knights, might've gotten too OTT with the colours as they're brighter than stuff I normally paint and I'm not sure if I like it or not. Edit: Individuals:     
richyp fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 14:50
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They look fantastic in my opinion!
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Aug 25, 2017 23:47
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those are some beautiful lizard boys
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Aug 26, 2017 02:32
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Great saurus knights!
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Aug 26, 2017 07:12
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Thanks guys, going to paint up a character model of some sort next then work on the really big Lizard.They were less fun to paint than I expected to be honest. I think it was mainly because I completely glued them all (riders and all) together before priming and painting making them fiddly to brush, also 5 at once seemed like a good idea at the time but it's more like 10 models in effort. At least I now have enough Chaos and Seraphon painted up for a first game of Skirmish  In rules news, to coincide with the launch of the New and Improved GHB I noticed GW Community has updated the Warscroll Compendiums as well as add some for factions that don't currently appear for download on their website. They're here. In particular I've not seen a compendium for High Elves, Wood Elves and Dwarves before.
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Aug 26, 2017 07:56
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They also have a article for the Classic Dwarfs aka Dispossessed. And yeah I can't stomache calling them Duradin, it's just so stupid. Call them Dwarves that what they are. He refers to that as that in the first part of the article as they were his main army. The rules themselves look fine however.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 08:06
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richyp posted:In rules news, to coincide with the launch of the New and Improved GHB I noticed GW Community has updated the Warscroll Compendiums as well as add some for factions that don't currently appear for download on their website. They're here. Boo Boo. At first I was excited by the reveal they updated the old armies. Taking out the stupid rules and such. Then I looked at them. They removed every single character in the game. Even the ones that did have cool and unique rules and not stupid ones. Most units are just use this thing instead. I preferred the old version to this update. Most units are just use this warscroll instead. But the fact that they did this to all characters just makes me really sad. Guys like Karl Franz and Vlad von Carstein are now just use Free Guild General and Vampire Lord. When they used to have rather cool unique rules that fit them. Also the Screaming Bell appears to have been removed from the game. As there are no rules for it, despite the model still being sold. Edit:Looking at this more I am now legit crying about this. It's like the final death knell to the old setting. It's characters not even usable anymore. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 08:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:Boo Boo. At first I was excited by the reveal they updated the old armies. Taking out the stupid rules and such. Hmm hadn't actually looked at them, just figured they were updated to tie in with the new GHB  No idea why Screaming Bell is missing from the new Skaven compendium, if I recall from Fantasy  it could be built as a Plague Furnace, which does have rules (on store and in Pestliens book) maybe that's why they keep selling it, fingers crossed it's an accidental ommission (the fact it's missing from the substitute section at the back where the characters are gives me hope)  I guess their "narrative" for killing the old characters off is that it's a different world or some poo poo. Chaos Lord of Slaanesh will always be the Sigvald of my heart  It's pretty BS that they did that rather than just renamed them e.g.Sigvald the Copyrightable or Queek Craniumcollector etc..
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Aug 26, 2017 08:45
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richyp posted:Hmm hadn't actually looked at them, just figured they were updated to tie in with the new GHB The different world sucks. Lots of those characters models are still being sold. To me it just makes no sense to do this. I also was just getting into Age of Sigmar and never downloaded the old compendiums so I guess they are lost forever to me. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 08:58
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