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It boggles me that the americans, who've had terrorist attacks on their vessels, don't pay closer attention to what's going on around their ship while underway. This is why you have lookouts + the navigation officer keeps an eye on the radar. Not to mention that these destroyers are so well crewed that the CIC should be manned 24/7 and running plots on all ships within radar/sonar range (aka target practice). I know that if I had been on watch in the CIC manning the active sonar, I'd be calling the bridge on the 18MC asking what the gently caress was going on if another vessel was closing to within 1NM with an intersecting vector.
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Aug 24, 2017 11:43
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Some of the guys on the gCaptain forums have been talking about hydrodynamic effects that can seem a lot like a temporary steering failure, for instance the bow cushion from a close overtake pushing on your stern can force you to veer into the path of the vessel you just overtook.
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Aug 24, 2017 11:43
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Polikarpov posted:Some of the guys on the gCaptain forums have been talking about hydrodynamic effects that can seem a lot like a temporary steering failure, for instance the bow cushion from a close overtake pushing on your stern can force you to veer into the path of the vessel you just overtook. If you're close enough to another vessel for hydrodynamic interaction to come into effect, either you're in a narrow canal or so close you're about to collide anyway. We're talking about passing 200ft away from another ship, even less.
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Aug 24, 2017 11:57
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Polikarpov posted:Some of the guys on the gCaptain forums have been talking about hydrodynamic effects that can seem a lot like a temporary steering failure, for instance the bow cushion from a close overtake pushing on your stern can force you to veer into the path of the vessel you just overtook. This is nonsense, just like the notion that these are the result of cyber attacks, stealth cargo ships or some other convoluted suggestion. Any way you look at it, the Navy has the resources and capacity to avoid these accidents and there is no way they should happen . In the merchant world, Occams Razor would apply.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:17
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I understand all that, but ships certainly do make close passages in the waters off Singapore. In any case we have no idea how the McCain was maneuvering before the collision so its all conjecture. These are the posts I was referring to Tellarian, gCaptain forums posted:As mentioned earlier, there is also the possibility that the JMC was overtaking the tanker way too close due to the traffic, and way too fast. lm1883, gCaptain forums posted:That’s what I was driving at. I’ve navigated this TSS and many like it. I understand that your not going to have a 5 mile CPA like your usual ocean passage but maintaining .25 miles (that’s just over a boat length for some ships) or more is more often than not doable and any closer is too close. When you get under 2 cables, especially with high speed/draft/tonnage differentials these forces are real. If the JSM experienced these forces, we agree she was too close.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:32
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Interaction at two cables? That's uh... far fetched. If you're close enough that interaction is an issue, outside of a river or canal, you've already hosed up.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:37
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That's a $1 billion+ destroyer and it's supposed to be operating in those shallower areas. It's not one of the littoral combat ships but those are even more hosed. If it's running into those conditions and interacting at such close quarters.... Any way you look at it, when a tens of millions of $ cargo ship so easily takes out what should be a premier combat ship, every part of this is hosed. From the equipment to the leadership, culture, environment, personnel.
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Aug 24, 2017 14:16
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Question: I know the Navy isn't regularly running AIS, but do USN vessels operate some form of position/heading/speed recording equipment? A Ship Data Recorder, essentially? Or is the entire investigation based on deck logs and the recollection of the watchstanders?
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Aug 24, 2017 19:24
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lightpole posted:That's a $1 billion+ destroyer and it's supposed to be operating in those shallower areas. It's not one of the littoral combat ships but those are even more hosed. If it's running into those conditions and interacting at such close quarters.... Yeah, who knew it was so easy to militarize your merchant fleet and go toe to toe with the USN?
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Aug 25, 2017 01:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, who knew it was so easy to militarize your merchant fleet and go bow to bow with the USN?
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Aug 25, 2017 05:14
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 New rule: All US Navy ships will open fire on any mechant vessel within firing range!
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Aug 25, 2017 17:27
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I'd just like to add that the Navy guys over at GiP talk mostly about insufficient training and ridiculous watch schedules when it comes to this accident.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:02
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Default Settings posted:I'd just like to add that the Navy guys over at GiP talk mostly about insufficient training and ridiculous watch schedules when it comes to this accident. Yeah, Navy scheduling is insane. Literal walking zombies half the time. Understaffed, overmanaged, and no end in sight.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:03
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sharkytm posted:Yeah, Navy scheduling is insane. Literal walking zombies half the time. Understaffed, overmanaged, and no end in sight. How can they be understaffed???
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Aug 27, 2017 15:24
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My understanding is that the Navy system is terrible in that they are undermanned in experienced, technical positions and overmanned everywhere else.
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Aug 27, 2017 16:35
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lightpole posted:My understanding is that the Navy system is terrible in that they are undermanned in experienced, technical positions and overmanned everywhere else. I mean theoretically the whole point of a modern Western military is that it relies on senior enlisted for technical stuff instead of having the most senior officers also be the best at hands on jobs but that doesn't really seem to work well in the face of the realities of the harsh uncaring sea. Also, got off ship, only service that could get me to gate wanted over a hundred bucks to go from ship to gate because none of the TWIC cabbies were working weekends, got a lift off with the night hawk. 500 yards later in the real world I walked to a major road and had an Uber and a flight booked with no hassle in five minutes.
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Aug 27, 2017 17:13
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Haha it took me 2 hours to get out of the gate and a Lyft to Penn Station. Really pissed since I missed out on an awesome time in NY. I made my train though!
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Aug 27, 2017 17:16
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lightpole posted:Haha it took me 2 hours to get out of the gate and a Lyft to Penn Station. Really pissed since I missed out on an awesome time in NY. I made my train though! Are you still on it?
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Aug 27, 2017 17:23
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Yes, ~6 more hours. Not terrible but I would have preferred spending the last several days in NY I think.
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Aug 27, 2017 17:36
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lightpole posted:Yes, ~6 more hours. Not terrible but I would have preferred spending the last several days in NY I think. The romance of the rails! Next vacation you can travel by freighter!
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Aug 27, 2017 17:52
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I wouldn't even have to leave the terminal! I will consider this next time. "Sorry captain I've got to go I've got a ship to catch!"
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Aug 27, 2017 18:05
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Back when I did bridge watches in the Navy, we usually did 4/8 with no split watches, so you had one off watch to sleep and one to do other poo poo. This worked out fairly well, we didn't have much fatigue issues etc. Of course it was different during active ops, where the entire ship went 6/6 and we had regular exercises and actual alarms to deal with. After 4-5 days of war watches (6/6) you didn't care if it was 02 or 1400 hours, before going on watch, you just ate your chow and got on with it. Shower once a day, sleep as much as possible after doing your chores and just endure it until it's over. But, and this is one of the big differences between the Norwegian navy and the US Navy when it comes to manning, is that I (as senior enlisted in ASW) did both Sonar, Torpedo, MOB, damage control and bridge duties, depending on what we were doing, while the US Navy has dedicated personell to the various tasks they do. There also seems to be very little cross training in some of the technical branches, so if you get a lucky (heh) hit on a compartment, you lose 50-100% of your competent technicians for that specific function onboard ship. This is all based on what I've heard from US sailors and Lockheed technical staff (AEGIS radar), so it's probably not 100% accurate.
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Aug 27, 2017 18:40
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I don't know the first thing about commercial shipping. Can you guys tell me a bit about this ship I photographed on my way into Portland, Maine?
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Aug 31, 2017 03:08
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Small, geared, container ship (box boat). Might be able to carry some general cargo in place of containers in the holds; not sure, not a box boat person. Size and the fact that it has its own cranes (to handle loading and discharging containers without relying on shore infrastructure) suggest that it is used to move cargoes shortish distances between small ports. Its advantages are: shallow draught (can go where monstrous ships can't), doesn't need anything fancy on the shore side to perform cargo because it has its own cranes, cost effective for small cargoes (the enormous ships doing the China-USA run depend on huge cargoes to get economy of scale). Disadvantages, can't carry much cargo, more or less the same crew costs as a big ship, doesn't get the economy of scale of the big ship. StopShootingMe fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 05:32
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StandardVC10 posted:I don't know the first thing about commercial shipping. Can you guys tell me a bit about this ship I photographed on my way into Portland, Maine? It looks very similar to a ship I sailed on called the Surenes (at the time) and later renamed the Thorco Asia. Which was used to get into small West Australian ports with no crane facilities. We could load containers directly on to trucks or just leave them on the wharf while they were unloaded with forklifts and then lift the empties back on board. It sucked. There was insufficient cabins, I had to sleep in the Suez Room and the trainee rating slept in the hospital.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:26
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Small cargo ships always sounded like all the disadvantages of an OSV (undermanned, lots of moving parts like cranes etc.) combined with all the disadvantages of a big cargo ship (minimal consideration given to housing or comfort given that it will never house a picky company man).
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Aug 31, 2017 16:31
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I worked for a company that had transloading cranes at the mouth of the big coal river on Kalimantan in Indonesia, where they would move coal from the coal mine's river tugs to take it over to Java on our company's boats. Apparently people like to take tugs and barges across the Java sea, but we would do self-propelled barges at like 10k DWT. Indonesian operations so it was all Indonesian crews. Before we put GPS trackers on the boats they would spend a lot of time following the coast of Java before heading north to stay in cell reception... Also the bunker engines always had "problems" so they had to run the diesel, or just say they ran it to sell the fuel.
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Sep 1, 2017 16:25
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Those dudes sound like pro tier mariners, light fuel and cell service are like the #1 and #2 biggest things
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Sep 2, 2017 00:47
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Seriously routing for cell service is pro as gently caress. Was your company by any chance based in North America and named after outdated technology?
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Sep 2, 2017 01:07
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Nope, Singapore, we weren't very big. We had yards too to build our hulls across the water in Batam, but that was years and years ago, and I don't keep in touch with my old coworkers, although it looks liks some of them are doing well.
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Sep 2, 2017 05:07
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I'm 32, have no skills at all, have poo poo for education, and am miserable. If I were to put the effort into it, would I stand even a chance of getting a maritime job? It's been something I've been thinking about for a decade, and my life is going nowhere edit wow this was depressing. Also yeah I read the OP I just want to know if I'm too damned old already to start more than anything Michael Bayleaf fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 13:44
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Nah go for it. Which country are you in?
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Sep 10, 2017 14:22
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FrozenVent posted:Nah go for it. Which country are you in? United States, and thanks. I think I will
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Sep 10, 2017 14:26
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You are a perfect match for the US Merchant Marine, welcome aboard!
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Sep 10, 2017 17:23
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lightpole posted:You are a perfect match for the US Merchant Marine, welcome aboard! Woah not so fast, he hasn't said anything about his mental state. OP, have you ever found yourself to be obsessed by poo poo-eating bacteria, paint and paint accessories, or able to discuss the weather passionately for hours on end?
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Sep 10, 2017 17:30
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Replace weather with bowel movements and that new weird rash.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:40
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I remember having to proctor crew sign on for a breakout a while back during a MMIRRG ADT. There was at least one person I had to assist to make his mark and several I had to read everything for. We know you can read by virtue of that you posting. You can definately get unlicensed credentials and sail US flag.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:54
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Michael Bayleaf posted:I'm 32, have no skills at all, have poo poo for education, and am miserable. If I were to put the effort into it, would I stand even a chance of getting a maritime job? It's been something I've been thinking about for a decade, and my life is going nowhere I haven't posted in this thread in awhile, but I think I'm the only unlicensed guy here, and I will make the same recommendation to you that I make to every one else that asks me: Go to an academy. Don't waste time sailing unlicensed trying to hawsepipe, it really isn't worth it. I'm finally sitting for my 3rd's test in the next few months after 8 years as a qmed, and my biggest regret is not going to academy out the gate. I really felt like I was prepared to do the job until I started studying for the exams 
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Sep 12, 2017 09:21
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The exams aren't the job. Studying for my 1sts I felt like I should know and understand each question and approached general like that. The rest of the modules I read through once and just tried to memorize the answer. Did the worst on general and much better on the rest. None of those questions even approach reality and quite a few of them are dead wrong. You will be fine, just do what everyone else does and fake it till you make it.
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Sep 12, 2017 14:59
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My teachers literally told us that when it came to multiple choice certification exams, you "pick the less-wrong answer". For long form answers, ugh.
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Sep 12, 2017 15:53
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