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Vahakyla posted:I shot like 150 rounds or so maybe, did like two hours of actual tactical poo poo, and there rest of BCT I did pushups and got collectively punished. Imho kinda inefficient but I'm just a private. You already knew the lessons though. My collective punishment was bad enough that it hosed people up and they were like "gently caress this." I almost got into a fight because the dude in the stall next to me refused to give me any toilet paper (so I kicked the door down to get it with poopy butt and pants). We had some assholes (no females yet) fall asleep in class so everyone had to put their hands in the air for 5 minutes. As soon as an arm dropped, the clock restarted. We lasted 3 and a half hours without exaggerations. I know this because it was classroom instruction, and it was slotted from after lunch and it happened almost immediately. When we put them down, we had like 20 minutes of class left. Our nick at night saw us ruck all the way up to Spot C, and because the DS forgot the .50cal ammo, we were told to stand in formation. For about 2 hours waiting for someone to go find the goddamn 50 cal rounds. A couple of fights did break out, but we did nick at night and I got kicked in the face like 80 times. Then we stood in formation so we could take a bus so far out so we can complete the 15k requirement and as soon as we got to the barracks/confidence course area, they had this nice music and fire going and then someone hosed it up by mouthing off and we had to lowcrawl the sandpit before we could get the "you passed Basic" speech. We helped each other as we had been trained to do through both of these things. Our collective pain sucked but we were doing it together. I vividly remember my basic bunk buddy and I staring daggers through each other because someone hosed up and we were getting smoke and we knew it wasn't us. However, it also develops this cult of personality around NCOs and officers that gets out of hand. You know that, I know that, but these kids don't. Half of them never had a real job before so these experiences help shape their ability to focus on teamwork. Again, you already did it so to you it was just being yelled at a lot. Now that'll happen again, just give it time. I was once almost given an article 15 for not texting someone by a specific time. It was already written out and I was being called in to sign it. What had happened was I had texted him at the agreed time as per my counseling statement. It was week two into corrective training with no lapses. His phone did not receive the text until 18 minutes later because he had done something to it to put it to sleep and not actively push for new notifications. I had to get my phone and show him that I had texted him. Here's the thing, I STILL got in trouble because I didn't call him to verify he got my text. I didn't get the article 15, but it serves as a warning. Cover Your rear end
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Aug 25, 2017 19:15
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:Looking back, basic training was so goddamn easy. If I could go back and do it again knowing what I know now, I would breeze through it. If I wasn't broken I would agree. I actually wish I could go back sometimes just to get back in shape. I felt so good after basic training. Like ready to just gently caress the world bareback.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:16
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Soulex posted:If I wasn't broken I would agree. I actually wish I could go back sometimes just to get back in shape. I felt so good after basic training. Like ready to just gently caress the world bareback. I was about the same after basic as I was before. I could run a little farther and do a few more push-ups, but it wasn't a huge improvement. When I went to the battalion scouts after deployment and they treated us like adults? That's when I got in the best shape of my life since you had to maintain a 270 with a 90 in each event on the PT test and run five miles in 40 minutes (got mine down to 35 minutes). Then I got orders to Korea, stopped giving a poo poo about cardio and got big as gently caress because lifting was preferable to physically assaulting other soldiers in anger (which I did a few times anyway).
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Aug 25, 2017 19:20
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Soulex posted:You already knew the lessons though. My collective punishment was bad enough that it hosed people up and they were like "gently caress this." I almost got into a fight because the dude in the stall next to me refused to give me any toilet paper (so I kicked the door down to get it with poopy butt and pants). We had some assholes (no females yet) fall asleep in class so everyone had to put their hands in the air for 5 minutes. As soon as an arm dropped, the clock restarted. We lasted 3 and a half hours without exaggerations. I know this because it was classroom instruction, and it was slotted from after lunch and it happened almost immediately. When we put them down, we had like 20 minutes of class left. Our "land nav" was groups of eight people doing land nav for like 5 hours. If one person had basic grasp, you "passed". Our "shooting" was a joke of not even 200 rounds, cover shooting was 20 rounds, and buddy team live fire was ten rounds., and our tactical learning consisted of being able to maybe walk in a wedge. React to fire lasted about half of a day, and "setting up patrol base" was laying in a circle. On an open field. I saw equally dumb people in a different country being taught to dismount APCs into a flying formation that enters a building, sweep school houses, shoot hundreds of rounds and do COMPANY live fire exercise with armored fighting vehicles, and get sent on night land nav by themselves, with a ruck and a rifle. Dig fighting positions, prepare MG firing arcs and lanes, lay AT and AP mines in front of positions, and practice retreating into positions on a prepared deep defensive line. On paper, looking at the "end goals" of BCT, it looked hella impressive. It was just a lie of check marks on a paper, unlike the Finnish one which had 8 weeks of teaching soldiers soldier poo poo and leaving the yelling and smoking to americans. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 19:21
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When you have to train like 300 people per year, you can get fancier with your basic training without spending too many resources. Especially if you're happy using stockpiles of Nazi supplies.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:23
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I came out of BCT in worse shape than I went in. The best shape I've been in since joining the Army was when I was on staff because I could do whatever the hell I wanted for PT. Rotating in and out of the field constantly as a PL hasn't done much for staying in shape, and it's tough getting a good lifting routine going on when I still have to do dumb Army PT every morning. Well, mainly for doing squats because you use your legs pretty much every day for PT in the Army.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:25
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mlmp08 posted:When you have to train like 300 people per year, you can get fancier with your basic training without spending too many resources. Especially if you're happy using stockpiles of Nazi supplies. "WE can't do universal health care or police reform because US is just bigger".
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Aug 25, 2017 19:26
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I'd take steps toward UHC over fancier BCT any day of the year.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:31
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Basic training taught me that 99% of people around you are not even vaguely competent at anything at all, and they should not be trusted to do anything but gently caress you over.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:31
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All the Certificates from BCT are lies, too. "Convoy live fire". Lol we did buddy team live fire with couple rounds, we didn't even see vehicles. "Night land nav", yeah never happened. It's full of criteria that never materalized, not that it matter because the events that did were a joke. You passed land nav if you could follow the on semi smart private from your group for a light 3 kilometer trek.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:35
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All joking a salad, how many weeks is Finnish BCT and how many personnel per company are in training at once? And does it run nonstop year long?
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Aug 25, 2017 19:37
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mlmp08 posted:All joking a salad, how many weeks is Finnish BCT and how many personnel per company are in training at once? And does it run nonstop year long? No, so yeah, it is fundamentally different. Besides the cadre of platoon sergeants, instructor lieutenants, CO, XO and suppl the actual conscript platoons and squads are led by junior NCOs and officers who arrived 6 months earlier than the trainees. So there's no concept of student leadership. January and July are two times for conscripts to arrive. The fresh batch will fill a company, and BCT starts. It lasts for 8 week, and as mentioned, the new conscripts are kind of taught and actually lead by older conscripts, and after BCT, the whole company right away proceeds into unit training. The trainees are now the soldiers, and their leaders who taught the basics, keep them. They train together to form a real infantry, armor, artillery, whatever company, and at end date, everyone besides cadre, goes into reserves as one cohesive combat unit to be called into reserve training weeks and weeekend every couple of years. They'll stay as one unit until they are too old to remain in reserves. So a company fills two times a year and basic unit training, which is the conscript time, for a regular private, lasts for 6 months. 2 months of BCT, 2 months of profession training, 2 months of battlefield and combat training, but throughout this, they kind of do it all together where the fresh LTs and Corporals learn the act by teachign the trainees, then everyone gets solidified in their professional training where cadre shows LT how not to gently caress up and how to lead riflemen, riflemen learn to be better riflemen, and then they fight big play wars after that before they all get out. The ones after BCT who go to NCO school will fork out, and end of NCO school some fork out to officer school. These leaders effectively do double the time, first their leader study time in NCO and Officer schools, then return to he units to take charge of the 6 month newer soldiers, which is still kind of learning. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 19:47
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:I was about the same after basic as I was before. I could run a little farther and do a few more push-ups, but it wasn't a huge improvement. My first unit...so me first getting to base was weird. I took a bus because I was poor and made it to Louisville. I didn't know that Staff Duty existed so when I made it at 4AM I realized everyone was sleeping. PT 630, so therefore I have to wait until about 7-8 to have someone pick me up and try to call them. No cellphone by the way. No sponsor. So I traveled in uniform and just go "gently caress it" plop down and try to sleep. A drill sergeant comes up to me and I'm like "gently caress..." but the dude turned out to be really loving cool. He was dropping someone off and offered to give me a ride back to base. I was so goddamn basic that I sat in the position of attention in his car the entire 1 hour ride. But we chatted and he tried to find my building but I was assigned to a unit whom had just moved and had a total of 50 people in it. So that took forever, but I got signed in, slept like 30 minutes and went to PT. It was loving cold. I didn't have winter PTs on and no headgear but it needed it. It was November or something. I finally figured out which unit mine was, and I was relieved. There was this giant loving ball, like one of those yoga balls, and people were just playing smear the queer or whatever. Queer like different, not LBGTQ and it's also the name of the game. Anyways, this thing is at least 8 foot tall. This is PT. There are two goals and two teams. The first Senior NCO that saw me and saw I was cold, gave me his headgear. SFC Loos was super cool and looked kinda like Ernst from Ernst goes Camping and many other hits. He always looked out for me and kinda helped ease me into the Army. When my squad actually was built, it was me (PVT) two other PVTs, one of which was a crazy loving woman and almost tried to rape me or something, the other was this single mom. 1 10 year SGT, a SSG airborne 101st dude, a completely badass SFC who was coming off his third or fourth METT team, an old SGM who would randomly yell out with a guttural grunt and then say "fire it up now, fire it up" even in meetings, two warrants. One a newbie but was a cool dude and the other a CW3 who was skinny as gently caress but was cool. He was one of those guys that had the super hard violent and drug fueled background and was told Army or Prison and he is just the happiest loving guy I've ever met. Then the officers was a CPT who was a disgusting piece of poo poo and ignorant oval office as well as a MAJ who was a Marine but jumped over and was funny because he HATED the CPT and it wasn't hidden. The best shape I was in my life was in Iraq. I ran a quarter mile in 1:09, and it was my third or fourth. The hooah airborne SSG had manipulated me to be like "let's do the 12 mile ruck march for funsies!" And I was like "yay...what?" I did it, with a full load and 203. Right on the dot. I got half a day off for that. I know this is long but this is where it kinda changed for me. I was like, the "golden child" of my unit. I had built and implemented a system for ammunition that is probably still being used today and would be curious if it still was (89A/B's). Anyways the original system was very inaccurate, time consuming, and required lots more man power than reporting should take. It took 12 hours to compile all the ammunition and the data to a viewable form which still looked like poo poo. I taught myself excel, sumif formula, conditionals, sorting issues, and had one dude help me, who turned out to be a good friend. Except he was a SGT and I was a PV2 and since we both worked in SPO, yadda yadda, so we weren't "allowed." Anyways I destroyed this old system. I made my own and cut the reporting process down to be super easy and take 1 hour after practice and routine. Accuracy shot up to 99%, we now had better visibility of all ammunition across the entirety of Iraq, some of Kuwait, and what was coming in/out. Since this was done, SSG told me to learn his job, so I did. And I did it. The CPT was always getting others to do her work so I guess fair's fair. They started doing whatever and not doing their job. The SFC was pretty cool though and hosted weekly Combatives Level 1 Certification at the Balad Main Gym. Had to go through twice because someone was stupid and hurt me in a roll, but that was also like not carrying my weapon for two weeks. When I left, I asked for a Bronze Star. I had reasoned that I had done an insurmountable amount of benefit to the US Army by creating this new system. It let us have days off toward the end of our 15 month deployment. It saved lots of money by helping laterally transfer ammunition to different ASPs based on condition codes and sort all of that so you can go out it into SAASMOD without problem. It had every accountable bit of ammunition in the worksheet by NSN, lot number, condition code, location, account (training ammo can be used for war, never vice versa, you still get training ammo in war time). I got laughed at. My buddy got one though. Then, the NCOs used the data I created to take credit of my accomplishments. They got Bronze Stars, and at the time it hurt. Still stings a bit now, but what happened next made me pissed. They used my worksheets as examples of their work when they were applying for WOC. Like, they made it too. And after they came back it was like I was scum now. That taught me a lot about the Army. Sorry got caught up in the story.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:50
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not caring here posted:Basic training taught me that 99% of people around you are not even vaguely competent at anything at all, and they should not be trusted to do anything but gently caress you over. This. This also means they view themselves as the 1% in that regard.
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Aug 25, 2017 20:23
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mlmp08 posted:All joking a salad
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Aug 25, 2017 20:24
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Jesus Christ what happened that there's so much posting in the army thread? Oh basic chat. Cool. 
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Aug 25, 2017 21:06
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spacetoaster posted:Well, to be honest the officers that get sent to "command" basic training stuff aren't the best and brightest. Yeah. Commanding a training unit is usually a career ending move, or at least an indication that your branch doesn't want you.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:48
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psydude posted:Yeah. Commanding a training unit is usually a career ending move, or at least an indication that your branch doesn't want you. That or it's where they put officers who are very inexperienced.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:55
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psydude posted:Yeah. Commanding a training unit is usually a career ending move, or at least an indication that your branch doesn't want you. It depends. BCT command is probably not at all good. I've seen people bounce back by using that as their "get your poo poo straight" command and then immediately going for a second command of a real line unit or a branch-relevant unit. One good change lately is that the CIMT commander is cracking down on branch favoritism in BCT. BCT units are ostensibly associated with a certain branch, meaning the BDE CDR and various important staff positions were held by that branch's personnel. So if you're in a Chemical-flagged BCT BDE (no such thing exists, of course), are you giving the infantry officer the top eval, or are you protecting your chemical officer BCT commanders? AIT/OES/WOES commands, less so. When I was an LT, each MOS in the branch had a command for students, a separate command for instructors, and sometimes a third command for equipment/maintenance. This model held for the officer education track, generally speaking, though branches varied. When I was in BOLC, my "commander" did basically zilch except sign leave forms and manage the roughly 10 cadre he had actual control of. He watched bootleg movies all day or just took naps in his office with the door closed. No one's fooled when you answer the door with the lights off, your ACU top off, and couch-lines on your face. The instructors, all past commanders on more or less a fast-track, openly poo poo on him. So you sent your absolute least capable people to go do that either as a career ender or as a wakeup call. Nowadays, with the cuts to TRADOC, one commander may command all of the students, instructors, and MX for several MOS's or several officer courses, plus handle functional courses for NCOs/officers, plus perform support to the operational forces with special mission training, etc. Presently, commanders in TRADOC, who are not BCT commanders, are slightly more likely to make major than commanders in operational forces. IIRC, BCT commanders are roughly on par with their operational peers, or maybe slightly behind. On the other hand, TRADOC company commanders are apt to get selected to go be TRADOC field grades, and then the trend reverses, as TRADOC units don't really have a lot of slots for majors and LTCs, so it gets real hard to get the "good" evals when the pot is so small to pick from. Doubly so in BCT land vs IMT/OES land. *It should be clear from context, but I'm talking about basic combat training, not brigade combat teams I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty darn sure 2 of my last 3 BDE CDRs had a training command under their belt somewhere. And all 3 either had a training command or a training key developmental position. spacetoaster posted:That or it's where they put officers who are very inexperienced. I've seen that too. A 1LT(P) goes to CCC, barely pins by the end, so they send them to a BCT command and their branch managers tells them not to gently caress it up, so they can get a branch or other good command as a second command. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 22:04
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my BCT CO was a medical officer imagine going to school to be a doctor and getting put in charge of a bunch of brand new dumbasees
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Aug 25, 2017 22:05
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Jackson in 90 Two Drills One infantry one was jag corps Any quesses why we had issues with how the first aid pouch on the old ALICE gear was supposed to be mounted?
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Aug 26, 2017 01:53
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:my BCT CO was a medical officer Are you sure it wasn't a Medical Services Officer? MS Officers are tactically and operationally trained, and know CLS skills, if those. They can sometimes be put to lead platoons of other branches or commands from what I know. Case in point, one UAS platoon in my battalion led by a MS Officer. Medical Officers are PAs, Nurses, Docs, Dentists, Vets, etc.
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Aug 26, 2017 07:50
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not caring here posted:Basic training taught me that 99% of people around you are not even vaguely competent at anything at all, and they should not be trusted to do anything but gently caress you over. This is the most important lesson though
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Aug 26, 2017 09:15
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This one time, in the army, I got smoked.
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Aug 26, 2017 10:57
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I'm smoking right now. smdftb and fyiysi
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Aug 26, 2017 15:50
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:my BCT CO was a medical officer Are medical officers allowed to command? I was under the impression the non-combatants can never command? Aren't doctors non-combatants?
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Aug 26, 2017 15:53
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The doctors and nurses on the FOBs I was at in Afghanistan all carried weapons. Pretty sure the Army doesn't restrict specialty branch officers from holding command like the Navy does, as medical officers undergo the same tactical and operational/staff training that all other branches do.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:02
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Really? I'm pretty sure doctors and lawyers don't do any of that. They're not part of commands that would be running a company/battalion at TRADOC
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Aug 26, 2017 16:08
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facebook is turning into a roll call of suicides by guys i deployed with thank god we have the sad smiley face now like and share if you agree
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Aug 26, 2017 16:37
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milk milk lemonade posted:Really? I'm pretty sure doctors and lawyers don't do any of that. They're not part of commands that would be running a company/battalion at TRADOC Yeah I doubt one of them would be commanding a BCT company since that's a waste of a doctor; it was probably a medical service officer as previously stated. But there's no such thing as a restricted line position in the Army like there is in the Navy. In other words, a doctor or a lawyer could theoretically assume command of a unit.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:05
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psydude posted:In other words, a doctor or a lawyer could theoretically assume command of a unit. Yeah, it's just a mismanagement of resources, but not against rules. The only time I've seen a doctor in command was on a rather short-term basis after the previous commander got hurt in a car wreck so bad that they couldn't command, so a doctor was the commander for several months until they got a replacement in.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:13
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A lot of medical officers are direct commissioned like lawyers, and undergo very little officer training. Many of them enter at 1LT, or higher, as far up as full bird colonels for some really awesome surgeons. Medical Service Officers do the regular commissioning sources, then BOLC, and go though the track like any other regular officer. MS Officers and MedOs get conflated and mixed even by dudes in their platoons and companies. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 17:19
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I'm a star! I'm a star! I'm a star! Unf, hmph. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Hm. Heyyyup. I'm a star! I'm a star!
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Aug 26, 2017 17:59
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Vahakyla posted:A lot of medical officers are direct commissioned like lawyers, and undergo very little officer training. Many of them enter at 1LT, or higher, as far up as full bird colonels for some really awesome surgeons. The only reason I got my medboard started was because of a super cool O-6 who actually listened to me. He was also trying to convibce me to hook up a constant TENS (electroschock) unit inside my back to help get rid of the constant pain. I'd have a battery in my butt and have to recharge it. Didn't do it, felt like my legs were on vibrate mode all the time.
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Aug 26, 2017 18:27
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Soulex posted:The only reason I got my medboard started was because of a super cool O-6 who actually listened to me. He was also trying to convibce me to hook up a constant TENS (electroschock) unit inside my back to help get rid of the constant pain. I'd have a battery in my butt and have to recharge it. Didn't do it, felt like my legs were on vibrate mode all the time. What's your back injury? I've got a compression injury and reverse hyper has changed my life.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:13
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speaking of back injuries dude in my platoon fell off a guard tower. totally on his own but we were using a rickety piece of a bunk bed as a ladder, which i'm sure is against some regulation. turns out he had an extra vertebrae, which is rare. anyway, according to xrays that they did in afghanistan showed that he damaged that vertebrae. got back to the states and nothing can be found to support what happened. he spent the next year or so walking like an 80 year old man. every now and then he was forced to to PT and it would often drive him to tears. docs said he had degenerative disk disease, which according to his squad leader "so does everybody else who has been a grunt." he got tired of waiting for a med board and just took his ETS when it came up.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:18
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:turns out he had an extra vertebrae, which is rare. anyway, according to xrays that they did in afghanistan showed that he damaged that vertebrae. Not as rare as you might think. Hell yeah, bonus point of failure!
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Aug 26, 2017 20:20
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eh, it was the first and only time i had heard of such a thing. i always thought extra vertebrae meant you have a tail or something. i saw way too many soldiers get hosed over with their health, whether it be mental or physical. i know people say you shouldn't hide stuff but i saw a lot of people come forward and get screwed anyway.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:23
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It's about 10% of the population. I haven't looked into whether it actually increases odds of back issues. But one more disc to blow the gently caress out seems bad.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:26
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Zeris posted:facebook is turning into a roll call of suicides by guys i deployed with HOPES AND PRAYERS SENT
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Aug 26, 2017 20:31
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