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WrenP-Complete posted:Oh hey, I have been making a source list for natural fiber women's clothing for a little while. I think I may have some good sources for you. I'll can PM you tomorrow if that works , please remind me if I forget. MiddleOne posted:Everyone wants cotton for its many qualities which is kinda unfortunate considering we already reached peak cotton. OwlFancier posted:That's true, I think some of my other half's maxi dresses are blends at least but yeah I dunno how you manage with all the horrible stretchy gauze poo poo. It's uncomfortable. Grand Prize Winner posted:Can women get away with the traditional male jeans/t-shirt combo or is something that prosaic still constrained by lack of pure cotton? Please understand that I'm basically a beep-boop alien robot when it comes to even mens' fashion. Hi, welcome to our planet!  You picked a REALLY bad time to visit us, but that's a topic for another day.Women with certain builds can easily wear men's t-shirts and often do, but it really only works if you're flat-chested or prefer a very baggy look. Even boobs as unremarkable as mine are hard to fit into a male-cut shirt without it being a tent in every other dimension. Shirts fit me better when they're cut in more of an hourglass shape, and women's shirts typically have lower necklines than men's, which is fairly arbitrary but it's been the way things work for my whole life, so I tend to find high-necked t-shirts uncomfortable. I live in California, which is stereotypically the most t-shirt-and-jeans place in America, but there are still lots of places it wouldn't be appropriate for me to dress down to that level. I don't think I'd get turned away from the theater (this world is going to hell in a handbasket, I tell ya  ) but some restaurants, for sure, and although my work is extremely casual I do at least need to muster up a blazer to throw on over my t-shirt. Women's all-cotton underwear is seriously impossible to find unless you want the granniest of cuts, and I hate it. My kingdom for an all-cotton black bikini brief  Beowulfs_Ghost posted:What? How many women do you really see working in warehousing, trucking, construction, and manufacturing? The female counterparts to blue-collar men are likely working in nursing, hospitality, call centers, or service industry jobs - places where uniforms are common or, in the case of call centers, dress codes can be anything from "just don't come in naked" to "wear a full suit so we can pretend this is a career job and not a dead end." And again, men's and women's clothing selections are really really really different. "Just a polo shirt and slacks" is astonishingly hard to find in the women's department these days - I never would have believed it until a friend needed my help satisfying a dress code for just that. They're both so long out of fashion (she was specifically looking for khaki slacks, which had a big moment in the 90s when most poo poo-jobs last updated their dress codes) that you're hard-pressed to find them outside of like school uniform suppliers or preppie stores like J. Crew charging way more than anybody'd want to pay for their grim workwear. And when you do find them in the women's department, they're a poly-cotton blend at best. Seriously, natural fibers have essentially vanished from the low and mid-market women's apparel world.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:43
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OwlFancier posted:Not, I think, for most American women. Women have a different expected dress standard than men a lot of the time. Sure, in some customer facing office jobs. But that isn't most women. That's just some outdated idea that women only work as secretaries and teachers. Tons of jobs flat out require you to wear pants and closed toed shoes simply to comply with OSHA and insurance. And tons of women work those jobs. Not to mention all the McJobs that are polo and slacks as required uniforms. Plenty work jobs were typical dressy women's clothes are a safety hazard. Lots of women go to college and get jobs in health care and then wear scrubs everyday.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:53
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fishmech posted:tide how does it feel to be in the second lowest instead of the lowest income decile, you loving showoff  hobbesmaster posted:Most people cannot wear just a t-shirt and jeans to work. ~MUH PROFESSIONALISM~ you're either a C level/customer facing rep for a company that takes itself way too seriously and sells expensive poo poo to people who take themselves too seriously (suit/blazer), or your employer provides a service uniform (like, nurse, doctor, delivery driver), or you should be allowed to show up in anything that doesn't make people want to actively punch you suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 21:54
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I thought nurses had to buy their own scrubs. They don't?
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Aug 25, 2017 21:59
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I thought nurses had to buy their own scrubs. They don't? Guess I should have written "your employer should provide" instead of "your employer provides"? 
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Aug 25, 2017 22:01
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blowfish posted:you're either a C level/customer facing rep for a company that takes itself way too seriously and sells expensive poo poo to people who take themselves too seriously (suit/blazer), or your employer provides a service uniform (like, nurse, doctor, delivery driver), or you should be allowed to show up in anything that doesn't make people want to actively punch you It's more that there's a very noticeable double standard when it comes to what's perceived as "sloppy" or "unprofessional" between men and women. The last regular office job that I had didn't have any kind of stated dress code and men would normally wear khakis or jeans and a t-shirt or polo shirt while women always went at least one step beyond that. Nobody was forcing anyone to wear anything, but I guarantee you that there would have been people judging any woman who showed up every day in jeans and a t-shirt.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:02
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Paradoxish posted:It's more that there's a very noticeable double standard when it comes to what's perceived as "sloppy" or "unprofessional" between men and women. The last regular office job that I had didn't have any kind of stated dress code and men would normally wear khakis or jeans and a t-shirt or polo shirt while women always went at least one step beyond that. Nobody was forcing anyone to wear anything, but I guarantee you that there would have been people judging any woman who showed up every day in jeans and a t-shirt. Sexism ... bad?
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Aug 25, 2017 22:05
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:How many women do you really see working in warehousing, trucking, construction, and manufacturing? ." https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t21.htm According to the statistics, tens of millions. Personally seen, probably thousands. But I've also worked in "transportation" for 18 years, so I see the inside of businesses more than most. I do agree that it is harder to find these sorts of industry standard clothes for women, and you often pay a premium over the men's version. Depending on the job though, most people aren't going to care if your shirt isn't flattering to your figure. It isn't like the men in these industries are underwear models. Expect a lot of beer belly and plumber crack. Your boss is just going to be happy you showed up on time and sober.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:12
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Sure, in some customer facing office jobs. But that isn't most women. That's just some outdated idea that women only work as secretaries and teachers. You are just plain and simple wrong, man. Stop acting like things have to be true just because you assumed they are, and pay more attention to how the other half lives. More working women are subject to dress codes than not, and women's clothing - even t-shirts and jeans - are synthetic more often than not. It's amazing, no matter how inoccuous the topic, if it relates to women some goon is going to mansplain about it.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:15
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t21.htm these BLS stats are high level aggregates collected by sector, not by occupation. meaning that women who work in the offices of construction firms work in the construction industry, not that they're outside being construction workers
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Aug 25, 2017 22:18
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Paradoxish posted:It's more that there's a very noticeable double standard when it comes to what's perceived as "sloppy" or "unprofessional" between men and women. The last regular office job that I had didn't have any kind of stated dress code and men would normally wear khakis or jeans and a t-shirt or polo shirt while women always went at least one step beyond that. Nobody was forcing anyone to wear anything, but I guarantee you that there would have been people judging any woman who showed up every day in jeans and a t-shirt.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:20
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:What? Those jeans are made of polyester and spandex though. Even from carhartt or dickies.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:23
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Sure, in some customer facing office jobs. But that isn't most women. That's just some outdated idea that women only work as secretaries and teachers. Generally any workplace I've been in that doesn't issue a unisex uniform/is some sort of food service the dress is some kind of business casual, which for men is shirt and trousers, and for women is a whole variety of "smart looking" alternatives. Retail is generally good in that everyone gets a polo and trousers but even then, managers generally follow the same business casual rule and the men all wear shirts and ties while the women wear a variety of things that require substantially more effort than man packaging #1 that is the shirt and trousers. Much service work is customer facing, alas. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 22:24
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666:Holy poo poo, that's hosed up.Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You are just plain and simple wrong, man. Stop acting like things have to be true just because you assumed they are, and pay more attention to how the other half lives. More working women are subject to dress codes than not, and women's clothing - even t-shirts and jeans - are synthetic more often than not. It's amazing, no matter how inoccuous the topic, if it relates to women some goon is going to mansplain about it. Hey, thanks for the earlier post btw. Feel a little less ignorant. Still dumb as poo poo, but you know, a little more knowledge can't hurt unless it forces out something useful like how to tie shoes or operate a stove.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:26
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If you're a white man, you can get away with wearing pretty much whatever you want provided your dick and balls aren't visible. For everyone else, it's a lot more complicated and the consequences for getting it "wrong" according to some arbitrary standard are anything from a lack of professional advancement, or people laughing at you, all the way up to literally being shot to death.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:32
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boner confessor posted:these BLS stats are high level aggregates collected by sector, not by occupation. meaning that women who work in the offices of construction firms work in the construction industry, not that they're outside being construction workers Yeah trying to use those statistics is either disingenuous or ignorant (or both I guess). I work at construction sites on a regular basis and it's extremely rare to see tradeswomen.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:36
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I have literally never worked a job that allowed a jeans and tshirt combo on anyone. People working on a construction site, truckers, and restaurant wait staff where that's the uniform are about the only people I can think of that I've ever seen working a job wearing something like that.
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Aug 25, 2017 23:41
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Noctone posted:Yeah trying to use those statistics is either disingenuous or ignorant (or both I guess). I work at construction sites on a regular basis and it's extremely rare to see tradeswomen. Well, I've seen hundreds of women working light industry and shipping/receiving and driving trucks. Seen a few women on road work crews doing everything from flagging to heavy equipment operator. I guess our anecdotes will have to agree to disagree.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:08
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Women's all-cotton underwear is seriously impossible to find unless you want the granniest of cuts, and I hate it. My kingdom for an all-cotton black bikini brief Women's clothes are so much of a shitshow that I've started buying men's clothes more and more often. Sure it's all baggier, but I get real pockets now* and don't have to spend hours looking for something that's not tacky and not going to fall apart in five washes. It's an acceptable tradeoff. But I also don't work a job where I have to dress business casual, so I can get away with a wardrobe like that. *For the men in the audience, women's pants are notorious for lovely shallow pockets that can barely hold a small wallet, assuming they have real pockets at all and not just a line of stiching to trick you into thinking it has pockets. It gets worse as the pants get fancier, since it's just assumed you'll be carrying a purse around. blowfish posted:Guess I should have written "your employer should provide" instead of "your employer provides"? An allowance from my employer to buy my own scrubs would be awesome, though.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:09
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paragon1 posted:I have literally never worked a job that allowed a jeans and tshirt combo on anyone. How do you avoid dying inside? I'd feel absolutely awful, stuck in a clown suit every day.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:16
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Well, I've seen hundreds of women working light industry and shipping/receiving and driving trucks. Seen a few women on road work crews doing everything from flagging to heavy equipment operator. Oh neat, sexism is over AND all polyester magically turned into Egyptian cotton! Flattering women's-cut khakis overflow from the shelves! Pink-collar work evaporates as the glass ceiling shatters! Female truckers no longer get raped, and all construction workers everywhere just forgot how to pronounce "HEY SHAKE THAT rear end FOR ME, SLUT!" Why the hell didn't you speak up sooner? Grand Prize Winner posted:How do you avoid dying inside? I'd feel absolutely awful, stuck in a clown suit every day. That is really childish, and the choices aren't limited to "jeans & t-shirt" or "three-piece suit" you whiny child. And for the biiiiiilionth time in this conversation, if you're only thinking about what men wear to work you aren't really talking about the issue being discussed.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:24
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Grand Prize Winner posted:How do you avoid dying inside? I'd feel absolutely awful, stuck in a clown suit every day. I wear a polo and slacks for most of them. Sometimes a button up long sleeved shirt if i'm feeling fancy (or cold). Both of these are plenty comfortable. The only really uncomfortable part for me is the shoes because I don't have a ton of money to spend on them. Just let me wear my mostly nice sneakers dammit!
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Aug 26, 2017 00:33
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Fuuuck having to walk multiple miles a day and have office appropriate shoes. poo poo falls apart in six months tops.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:35
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That is really childish, and the choices aren't limited to "jeans & t-shirt" or "three-piece suit" you whiny child. And for the biiiiiilionth time in this conversation, if you're only thinking about what men wear to work you aren't really talking about the issue being discussed. Yeah, you're right. My bad. I've had the privilege of not having to do a lot of office type work and shouldn't mock those who haven't.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:44
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Grand Prize Winner posted:How do you avoid dying inside? I'd feel absolutely awful, stuck in a clown suit every day. A discount men's outfitters will get you suitably comfortable shirt and pants for most weathers but your sympathy would be better placed with the poor lass stuck in some hellish plastic blazer and nylons all day. Whoever designed the blazer was working for satan. paragon1 posted:Fuuuck having to walk multiple miles a day and have office appropriate shoes. poo poo falls apart in six months tops. You want a retail outlet that won't collapse get me a shoe shop that sells all purpose black shoes with comfortable soles and a greater than, as you say, six month shelf life, and I'll pay out the nose for it. I took to just keeping my old pairs full of holes, packing them with insoles, and only wearing the good ones when it rains. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 01:09
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I mostly wear skirts and dresses to work, because I'm basically an ent and most women's pants make me look like I'm waiting for a flood. Long sizes do exist, of course, but there's no guarantee that they'll fit right in other places, and at this point I've mostly given up. Women's clothing basically sucks for everyone who isn't very specifically proportioned. Shopping for my boyfriend is infinitely easier, dudes don't know how good they have it
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Aug 26, 2017 01:12
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Crow Jane posted:I mostly wear skirts and dresses to work, because I'm basically an ent and most women's pants make me look like I'm waiting for a flood. Long sizes do exist, of course, but there's no guarantee that they'll fit right in other places, and at this point I've mostly given up. Yeah! Long pants assume you have a long butt a lot of the time, or some kind of gigantic crotch situation. Just like how, as far as I've seen in my exhaustive search, literally all women's shirts sold by chain retailers are cut to be barrel-shaped, and extend in every dimension equally as you size up. So if you want a longer shirt because you're tall, they assume you have linebacker shoulders and a ribcage like an oil drum. No one designing mass-market clothes pays any attention to how anatomy works. Honestly the whole women's clothing industry puts a lie to the idea that capitalism is in any way logical. Millions, possibly billions of dollars left on the table while retailers all fight for the money of the exact same very tiny market segment. Clothing stores whine that fast fashion is eating their lunch, but in most towns they're the only store a woman above size 12 can shop at, and no matter what size you are you're going to run into horrendous fit and quality issues from any mainstream store, so you might as well go to the cheapest one. There's no clearer illustration of this problem than the fact that nearly all women wear a bra every day, and yet nearly all shirts/dresses for sale can't be worn with a bra. The entire industry is thoroughly broken. Seriously if you want an office-dress-code-approved button-down shirt as a woman with more than A-cup breasts you have to deep-dive into the internet's "modest fashion" recesses to find anything that won't pull or pop open, and you'd better be ready to spend hundreds on one lousy shirt. And the same men going "just wear khakis and a polo like me! silly women making this so complicated! it's because you're shallow I bet!" would be subconsciously unnerved and disgusted by a woman showing up to work in the boxy, saggy outfits they'd be wearing if they followed his advice, and that would lead to negative career outcomes for the women. Just like how men who love to call women bimbos for caring about makeup will tell any woman who isn't wearing it that she looks "tired" and unprofessional. Dudes, just... any time women are talking about a problem they face and you chime in with "I'm a man and I don't have that problem!" you are being That Guy. Nobody likes him.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:27
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I'd love if I could find jeans that are 28 or 29 long and 31/32 wide. They don't exist, afaik, i've checked every store at multiple malls over the last year.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:34
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OwlFancier posted:A discount men's outfitters will get you suitably comfortable shirt and pants for most weathers but your sympathy would be better placed with the poor lass stuck in some hellish plastic blazer and nylons all day. Yeah, I think, with regards to my generation and certainly me personally, we don't feel comfortable wearing suits because it seems ridiculously overdressed and formal compared to what we've been conditioned to wear and perceive as normal. There is nothing uncomfortable or unpleasant about wearing a suit, it just seems slightly abnormal until you're used to it. Wearing a great suit with a nice shirt and a tie, in a context where everyone is doing it and you're not forced to be there like at work, is fun as gently caress and perfectly comfortable if you buy well-fitting clothes. You just feel like a pillock when everyone around you is wearing a ratty rear end t-shirt and jeans or shorts or whatever, and I think especially when you're just transitioning from school/university to work, it can feel a bit like you're cosplaying an adult or something. I have a great pair of formal-ish trousers made of a material that feels like a light breeze touching my skin, but I never wear them because I feel ridiculous walking around outside when everyone else is wearing jeans, like people will make fun of me for looking like some kind of stuck up prick or whatever (possibly irrational, but... what are you gonna do?). But I share your hatred of dress shoes. gently caress all dress shoes permanently. I don't get why shoes have to be uncomfortable and dig into my ankle bone continuously in order to be considered dressy. EDIT: My point being: guys overall are lucky as gently caress. Our business attire fits well, is generic as gently caress, and feels pretty good to wear while providing decent insulation in cold weather. We have nothing to bitch about. PT6A fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 01:34
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I work in an office full of civil engineers and basically anyone under the age of 30 can wear jeans and a tshirt, no problem. Anyone older than that tries it on a day when they aren't out in the field then they look weird. Jeans and polo or buttondown are basically the uniform now though. Also women definitely dress nicer on average.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:37
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got any sevens posted:I'd love if I could find jeans that are 28 or 29 long and 31/32 wide. They don't exist, afaik, i've checked every store at multiple malls over the last year. Men's pants have somehow figured out how to separate waist size from leg length when sizing, while women's jeans just give you a size and gently caress you if you don't match the specific body proportions they're designing for. It's insanity.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:39
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got any sevens posted:I'd love if I could find jeans that are 28 or 29 long and 31/32 wide. They don't exist, afaik, i've checked every store at multiple malls over the last year. gently caress the mall, abandon those lovely stores for internet shopping: http://www.themodestman.com/short-inseam-jeans/ Haifisch posted:I'm pretty sure womens' jeans exist to subsidize the tailoring industry. Haha yeah, and even if you find a brand that does waist sizing (never inseam of course, why would your legs be any different than Karlie Kloss's? Are you ugly or something?), then you have the fun of figuring out if they meant your high waist, your low waist, your hips, or "gently caress you for asking." Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 01:39
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Haifisch posted:I'm pretty sure womens' jeans exist to subsidize the tailoring industry. Some brands do, some brands do not. Notably, Zara doesn't have separate waist/leg measurements, but I'm lucky because I fit their default well enough. Still, I gather there is significantly less variation between men's waist sizes and leg lengths than women's.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:41
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Well, I've seen hundreds of women working light industry and shipping/receiving and driving trucks. Seen a few women on road work crews doing everything from flagging to heavy equipment operator. No, you're just straight up wrong. Well, at least about construction, which is the only sector I was talking about. I've been to well over a hundred construction sites over the last half decade and I've never, ever seen more than two or three tradeswomen on any American job site (there were...I think six at a Facebook data center in Sweden). Most of the time it's zero, every once in a while it's one, and sometimes on a very large scale project like a data center you'll see multiple tradeswomen. If you'd dug a little deeper on the data you'd have found that only a quarter of the women in the construction industry actually work in production (i.e. trade) positions.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:55
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Crow Jane posted:I mostly wear skirts and dresses to work, because I'm basically an ent and most women's pants make me look like I'm waiting for a flood. Long sizes do exist, of course, but there's no guarantee that they'll fit right in other places, and at this point I've mostly given up. Check out Long Tall Sally. I'm 6'4" and it's the only place I've ever found pants that fit. They do 34, 36, and 38 in seams. The also carry shoe sizes up to 15 if you have that problem too.
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Aug 26, 2017 03:15
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Haifisch posted:I'm pretty sure womens' jeans exist to subsidize the tailoring industry. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Haha yeah, and even if you find a brand that does waist sizing (never inseam of course, why would your legs be any different than Karlie Kloss's? Are you ugly or something?), then you have the fun of figuring out if they meant your high waist, your low waist, your hips, or "gently caress you for asking." If it makes you feel the tiniest bit better, men's clothing in the designer tier suffers from the same problems. 
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Aug 26, 2017 04:14
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Noctone posted:If it makes you feel the tiniest bit better, men's clothing in the designer tier suffers from the same problems. Also the one time I bought really expensive (over $100) jeans, they were all super long (like, too long for 99% of people to wear) and it was completely assumed you'd have them hemmed. I see the point, as it's a cheap fix and easier than stocking a bunch of jeans with the same waist and different inseams, for something of a niche market.
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Aug 26, 2017 04:22
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Whats so special about all-cotton compared to other fabrics
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Aug 26, 2017 05:49
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Whats so special about all-cotton compared to other fabrics
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Aug 26, 2017 06:36
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Whats so special about all-cotton compared to other fabrics Cotton's just the cheapest of the main natural fibers - the others being wool, linen, and silk - so it's a common thing to start with when you're sick of synthetic fabrics. Natural fabrics breathe better, they don't feel plasticky on your skin, they drape better and tend to break in in ways that mold to your body, and they're easier to sew so you can get crisper tailoring or more complicated construction. Also they don't melt on you if there's a fire 
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Aug 26, 2017 07:54
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