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   If the number of beds was going to increase, we would be told about that when setting up. The fact that nothing has changed in particular... means that he probably won't be here this year either. Clinging to a final bit of hope, I stood by the docks, watching the boat draw closer.  "Hey, Shannon-chan. You're looking as pretty as ever." "Careful, Ange. Watch your step." "Hey, Shannon. You know, I love it here...! Can't wait for Uncle Krauss to turn it into a resort." "Why bother? It'd be such a waste." "Eheheh, maybe it would. How have you been, Shannon-chan? I think you've gotten a bit taller since last time." "...Thank you very much." "And the weather's good again this year...! I just love getting every single member of the family together like this." "Please allow me to guide you to the mansion..."So, after all, Battler-san has been so thoroughly forgotten that he might not have existed in the first place. The sadness must have shown on my face. Not wanting anyone to see it, I turned my back to the family and led the way up to the mansion. Then, suddenly, someone mentioned Battler-san's name, and I jumped.  BGM: Cage  "How's he doing...?!" "Yeah, he's doing very well. I took Ange and had some tea with him the other day."I was surprised. So, Kyrie-sama was in touch with Battler-san. According to her, both Battler-san and Rudolf-sama had already calmed down after their fight, but both were so stubborn that they hadn't found a good chance to make up. And, since Battler-san had gotten used to living with his grandparents and going to school there, and considering that those grandparents might make things even more difficult, going to convince Battler-san to come home wouldn't be easy.  "...It's just too bad. I think Asumu-san's parents were even more angry than Battler-kun was. This isn't just an issue between Battler-kun and Rudolf-san anymore." "Then will Battler be coming back sometime soon?" "He will make up with Rudolf-san, but it looks like he doesn't intend to return to the Ushiromiya family. Such a shame. Though I do understand how he feels."It was a bit of a relief to hear that some of the bad feeling had died down in these three years. If we take Asumu-sama's parents into account, it's no surprise that things haven't gone as well as they could. But if Battler-san doesn't hate Rudolf-sama anymore, then someday... ...Surely he'll come back. He'll have grown so much. My resolve will not waver anymore. For some nights these past three years, I've felt sad and resentful. But now, it feels as though those three years were something I needed. After all, the seeds of love, the faint feelings I once had for you... have budded powerfully, waiting for the day that we'll be reunited. This is how honest my feelings for you are now.  I want to see you again as soon as I can. Until that time, I'll keep that bud of love warm and growing for you... I won't doubt the coming of that day anymore. Just as I think of you, under the same sky... I believe that you are thinking of me. I'm sure this news about him is a sign that God is cheering me on. So, I asked God one more time, inside my heart. Since my feelings for Battler-san have not wavered for a day these past three years... Let me know that he feels the same way. I know that asking for that is a sin. However, now that we've reached a three-year turning point, I want some gift from God, any gift, to show that I have not waited in vain. That is what I prayed.  BGM: Hope ...Huh...? Did God... really hear my prayers? I felt as though my heart was going to leap out of my chest. "A letter from Battler? Awesome! What'd he write?!" "Did he say anything about how he's been doing lately? I can't wait to read it."Kyrie-sama pulled a brown envelope out of her bag and handed it to George-sama. Just one? When George-sama opened it, several folded letters came out. "Looks like this one's addressed to me. They all have different names on them. Here, this one's yours, Jessica-chan." "Thank you!" "And this one's for Maria-chan. Can she read yet...?" "I'll read it to her later. Thank you." "There's even one for Ange-chan. Now of course she can't read." "*giggle*. I'll give it to her when she does learn." "He says he's doing great and having a blast...! That's awesome." BGM: Dead Angle  "Yep. Looks like that's all of them. Thanks a lot."George-sama handed me the empty envelope. Apparently, he thanked me because he thought I was offering to throw it away for him. And, clearly, there was nothing inside it. There was no letter for me... "Whoa. The more I read, the more fun it looks like Battler-kun's been having. Living every day to the fullest." "That's what it looks like in mine, too. If he's happy, then I guess that's what counts." "*giggle*. That's so mean of Battler-kun. It sounds like he forgot about us until you told him to write those letters." "Well, you know what he's like. Battler-kun enjoys life. And I hear he's popular with the ladies at school, too." "Wow...! Incredible!" "There should be plenty of girls who like those hilarious, melodramatic lines of his. Makes sense to me." "I wonder if he really does plan to stay away." "It looks like he does. In my letter, it says that he doesn't plan to return to Rokkenjima." BGM: Spiral That the fact that there was no letter for me, the fact that he was enjoying life and had forgotten about Rokkenjima, were just more trials. He is... God is... testing me. The fact that there was no letter for me alone is proof of that... ...That's... what I want to think... But... now it's just... Too much...   "..." "...No way. Then, that promise about him coming for you was..." "I was a dreamer, It was just an illusion I created..." "To Battler, they were probably just meaningless words to make him sound cool."...To an outside observer, it would seem genuinely funny. That promise with Battler might have been an illusion the whole time. In the first place, we don't know if they both felt the same way about each other at all. Love is an illusion. However, if both sides are seeing the same illusion, the love becomes true. However, when the feelings of each side are different, then it's nothing more than a joke.  "This is Battler's sin." "...Making Shannon think... that it was a promise." "Wrong." "...Huh?"  "If he simply broke his promise, I could have scolded him. I could have regretted, or I could have recovered. However, since he didn't even remember, I am unable to question him about it." "..." "I am unable to hate Battler-san. After all, Battler-san didn't even break his promise. There just wasn't... any promise from the beginning. It was nothing more than a sad... joke." How much easier it would be to hate something... But I can't hate anything. I just couldn't get over my miserable arrogance, which had led me to believe for three whole years that he felt the same as I did.   "No... This isn't anyone's fault. It's all because I assumed that he felt the same way I did..." "Battler did not make a promise. However, that does not mean his feelings were anything to be laughed at! Though there might have been a difference in degree when compared to yours, it is true that he liked you! Of that, there can be no doubt." "...Please, just stop it... I've believed that he liked me the way I liked him, without ever doubting that. Please don't try to cheer me up. I'd rather... that you mocked me..."Before I knew it, a dull, inescapable pain had pierced my chest. When I pressed my hand against my chest, I realized what that pain was. It was the bud of love, which I had sown the seeds of and raised in my heart. Its roots had spread throughout my chest, tormenting me like a metal wire wrapped around my heart. Rather than roots, it looked as though there were fissures running through my heart. I can only hold back the pain by tearing out the root of love. But no matter how much I scratch at it, I'm only scratching at my chest. The root of love doesn't move at all. If I started hating Battler-san, without any lingering interest or regrets, I'd be able to pull out this root easily. Once I did, it would probably leave a hole behind, but at least it wouldn't hurt me anymore. But I can't pull it out. Even though it hurts so much, those roots of love are still stuck in my heart.  "...Shannon..." As I sobbed, the tightness in my chest grew even stronger. As long as I like Battler-san, that pain will always continue. Because I like him, I want to hold onto that pain forever. But, it was written right there in the letters for George-sama and the others. Battler doesn't plan on returning to the Ushiromiya family. He's forgotten about me and Rokkenjima, and has started a new life with a different name. I must wait for him for all eternity, despite how painful, aching, excruciating this is... "Is this another trial...? Is God telling me... to wait for him forever...? I can't do that... I... want to be with Battler-san. But if this is the trial... that I must go through for that... it's just... too painful..." "..."Beatrice hung her head in shame. If she hadn't encouraged Shannon so much, it probably wouldn't have been this painful. Shannon may have been the one to sow the seed of love in her heart. However, Beatrice had irresponsibly watered it and told Shannon not to give up. Beatrice scratched at her chest, trying to share Shannon's pain...  BGM: S/he End Beatrice mumbled to herself. "...What's your fault?" "For three years, I tortured you with the illusion of a promise that never happened. If I had not nourished the bud of love within you, you would not have suffered so." "..." "Shannon. This may sound harsh, but listen." "...What is it...?" "...No. I'm the one who nourished it. No matter how painful it is, I can't forget it." "But you cannot bear that pain any longer, can you...?" "..."Wordlessly, Shannon held her chest and hung her head. I... love Battler. That feeling burns inside me, so that I still cannot let it go no matter how much it hurts. And, I've spent three years pretending that I didn't feel that pain. Now, I know that I feel it. And since I know, I can't bear it...  "So, you cannot throw away your bud of love for Battler?" "...Yes." "However, at this rate, the bud... the root... will kill you." "..." "People need a universe to survive. And one person cannot create that universe alone. Two are needed." "...A universe..." "Together with Battler, you created the universe of that bud of love. Now that one half of that pair is gone, your universe has crumbled. People cannot... complete a universe on their own." "However, Battler-san, the other person who creates my universe, won't come back..." "Then you must create a new universe with someone else." "...You mean, create one with someone other than Battler-san?" "I will give you that person." "...Which... person...?" "A creature to bury the pain in your heart and heal you. He will not betray you. Yes, let it be a sibling. I will give you a little brother." "A little brother..." "A boy you have always been close to at the Fukuin House, whom you love as if he were your real brother. That, I shall give to you. Together with him, you will create a new universe." "...Will that little brother... make me forget about the pain of my love for Battler-san...?" "Indeed. You need a universe." "Then, what will happen... to the bud of love in my heart? My feelings for Battler-san won't change. I can't make them wither." "...You will...?" "You can forget the pain of love and create a new universe. I will accept the bud of love in your place. It means that I will accept the pain as well, but I will learn of the single element I do not possess, love."Beatrice... wanted to know love. She wanted to feel what Shannon had felt in the world of humans.  "...And, if Battler ever does return, if the bud still has not withered and you still desire it, I shall return it to you. What do you think of that?" "..."Still hanging her head, Shannon gave a small nod, but said nothing. It would mean release from this unbearable pain. And, it would mean giving the bud of love to the witch, to hold in her place... Shannon spread the hands that she had held to her chest. As she did, a faint light popped out of her chest and floated in the air, gradually swallowing everything with its brightness. As the brilliant light began to fade away, Shannon and Beatrice, still facing each other, were now inside a vast, starry sphere, like a planetarium. They were the only ones in this pitch-black starry sea. Shannon felt as though she'd seen this place once before, but she couldn't remember. Then, I made another announcement.  This way, Shannon won't be tormented by the bud of love anymore. And, furthermore, she will be given a little brother, with whom she can create a new universe. The design for the little brother will be a younger boy at the Fukuin House, with whom Shannon was close. For a name, let there be the 音 character, as Fukuin House rules state. ...Yeah, I've decided. That's a perfect name to go with Shannon's.  There, he'll open his heart to Shannon. As a duty-minded boy who loves Shannon like a big sister, he'll always be there for Shannon... Let's have him be a special servant like Genji, who is permitted to serve Kinzo directly. Yeah. That sounds kinda cool. Then, Beatrice. From now on, you will carry the bud of love. In other words, the role of being infatuated with Battler and waiting for his return will go to you. While you are still the witch who reigns over Rokkenjima's night... You have also been waiting for Ushiromiya Battler, ever since that day three years ago. Along with this change in setting, I'll give you a new form as well... He did tell us what his ideal woman would look like once, remember? A stylish woman with long, golden hair, like a foreign model. Golden hair. Long hair. Style.  Come now, hold that bud of love in your heart as you wait for Battler. This way, you will learn of love, in exchange for earning pain. Yes, this will be the setting for my new world. For Shannon, a new servant like a little brother will come. He will be a silent, reticent boy. A duty-minded kid who loves Shannon as a sister. And the bud of love that has tortured Shannon... will go to the witch, Beatrice. She will just be holding onto the bud of love for the time being. However, while she holds onto it, she will be a maiden in love with Battler. For that time, you will be able to learn what love is... Come, let the world be modified. Oh, I am one yet many. Awaken, us. And stretch your wings in this new world...  BGM: Le 4 Octobre How long has it been since I last saw such a pleasant morning. The face in my mirror is tear-stained and pathetic. However, my heart is as clear as the morning sun. I could still clearly remember that strange dream. However, I can feel myself forgetting it rapidly... The place I was in my dreams... had been such a strange place. A peaceful, calm place. There, I had left behind the pain I had carried in my chest until yesterday. So this morning, my heart was at peace...  My tear-stained face really is pathetic. However, my expression is bright and cheery. Even now... I... like Battler-san. But, for some reason, I've calmed down. It feels like I've put something precious safely away in the place it belongs. Battler-san. When will you come back, I wonder... When you do, I'd like to talk about mystery novels again. ...Oh, I almost forgot. A new boy servant will be coming today, right? One of the rare servants who will serve the Master directly. What kind of kid will he be? I hope we get along well...  
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Aug 25, 2017 13:29
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ProfessorProf posted:Then, I made another announcement. Okay, hang the heck on. I can understand how Yasu would go about introducing Kanon as another kid from the orphanage, if the Ushiromiyas don't pay too much attention to the Fukuin House records themselves and just tell them to send kids over every once in a while. I mean, something similar had to happen with the creation of Shannon in the first place. But just arbitrarily declaring, with a snap of the fingers, that Kanon is "a special servant who is permitted to serve Kinzo directly"? How in hell does that work? It definitely requires Genji to be complicit, at the very least, and might just be straight-up impossible, considering that I don't believe Kinzo's dead yet at this point - isn't the 1986 conference either only the second or third at which he's been dead?
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Aug 25, 2017 14:24
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So if Beatrice, Kanon, and Shannon are all Yasu, who are the cousin's Aunt-Cousin, that means every single one of their relationships are doubly incestuous. I wonder when we'll learn that Amakusa is actually battler's stillborn half-brother.
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Aug 25, 2017 14:59
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Confused Llama posted:Okay, hang the heck on. I can understand how Yasu would go about introducing Kanon as another kid from the orphanage, if the Ushiromiyas don't pay too much attention to the Fukuin House records themselves and just tell them to send kids over every once in a while. I mean, something similar had to happen with the creation of Shannon in the first place. But just arbitrarily declaring, with a snap of the fingers, that Kanon is "a special servant who is permitted to serve Kinzo directly"? How in hell does that work? It definitely requires Genji to be complicit, at the very least, and might just be straight-up impossible, considering that I don't believe Kinzo's dead yet at this point - isn't the 1986 conference either only the second or third at which he's been dead? I think that in practice, Kanon's existence was like Beatrice's: someone only Shannon can see and talk to, who maybe occasionally traded places with her. Looking back at Kanon's introduction in Episode 1, I don't see any explanation but that the author invented the scene entirely. "I know Kanon, and everyone else, so I know how they would have interacted," that kind of thing. But there are only 16 people on the island.
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Aug 25, 2017 16:24
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^^^ If Battler saw it, it really happened, or this story was never a Mystery to begin with.Confused Llama posted:Okay, hang the heck on. I can understand how Yasu would go about introducing Kanon as another kid from the orphanage, if the Ushiromiyas don't pay too much attention to the Fukuin House records themselves and just tell them to send kids over every once in a while. I mean, something similar had to happen with the creation of Shannon in the first place. But just arbitrarily declaring, with a snap of the fingers, that Kanon is "a special servant who is permitted to serve Kinzo directly"? How in hell does that work? It definitely requires Genji to be complicit, at the very least, and might just be straight-up impossible, considering that I don't believe Kinzo's dead yet at this point - isn't the 1986 conference either only the second or third at which he's been dead? Yeah, this. Creating a new imaginary friend is one thing, but just how much of this did Genji watch and say not "This is fine" but "I will actively help with this"? Christ, Genji, I know you feel bad for the kid but there's more to being a good dad then just going along with your child's delusions. (And Kinzo dies in 1985 at some point before the family conference, so he is very much alive at this point.) I am taking notice of the constant switching between between first and third person here, which implies that Yasu still existing in some capacity as a discreet, thinking person, even if they only interact with the world through Shannon at this point.
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Aug 25, 2017 16:24
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So Kanon, more than being some whimsy by which Yasu might experience how being a different person (with a different gender) feels... began as a device to forgyet about Battler, and about the hole in Yasu's heart left behind. To paper over an image of loss and abandonment by a callow lover by creating an imaginary friend for your imaginary friend... it's a deep suppression of emotions, the kind that too many people are told to do, a thing in which, instead of dealing with our grief, we just... well, turn it off. (See here for a somewhat lighter treatment of the same subject matter) And as has been brought up, this couldn't have happened without Genji or Kumasawa's knowledge, so how exactly did that work? Was there any discussion about this, any at all, as to why Yasu would suddenly pretend to be a boy named Kanon for some hours of the day? Or did they just kinda go with it when Yasu said "Kay, when I put on my waistcoat and purple hat, call me Kanon"? I'd like to beliee the former, but given that actual rape was going on in Kuwadorian and both of them didn't stop it and even tried to justify it in their heads... this speaks to weakness on their part. Weakness. It's the curse of this family, beyond any gold or treachery, isn't it: the ability to see that which would be both the right thing and best for everyone, but doing the total opposite instead because of habit or tradition, or whatever word you want to put over what is cowardice, plain and simple. And then we have Battler, yes we do. I am trying to maintain objectivity here, and to remember all of the mitigating factors that make forgetting about his promise completely understandable: he was 12, his mom had just died under terrible circumstances, he likely was saying whatever cool thing he could think of to impress the girl of the moment, and human memory being how it is, he likely did forget which girl he made that promise with at that time. But as the analytical part of my calmly recites these facts, and others besides (including things like, say, parental example on how to act with women, which he never would have gotten with Rudolph), my emotions clench, and heave, and say: loving hell, Battler, you didn't even write? Not one loving word or phone call, after three years? One or two years is understandable, people have to mourn... but Jesus Christ, even if you'd forgotten the promise, you should have remembered Shannon herself, that there was a girl you knew on the island that you interacted with that might have missed you! If you thought she had moved on or been dismissed as a servant, you could have asked Kyrie to ask around discreetly and obtained a phone number or address... or to just slip Shannon a note later if you thought she might get in trouble with Natsuhi. But to do loving nothing? For six years? And then to only remember her as the girl with the tits when you did come back? Oh, Battler... you may curse and rail as you wish, but you are your father's son. You are an Ushiromiya. And you are cursed and abhorred.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:15
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resurgam40 posted:loving hell, Battler, you didn't even write? 1. Battler completely forgot about Shannon, maybe as part of wanting to forget everything about the Ushiromiya family, maybe because he just didn't care enough 2. Battler thought Shannon had already left the mansion and didn't consider that Shannon might still be hopelessly in love with him 3. Battler did write a letter, but George hid it, probably out of jealousy 4. Battler did write a letter, but Kyrie hid it for whatever reason 5. A witch did it
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Aug 25, 2017 17:39
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Considering that Battler couldn't even remember Shannon that clearly in the first episode, I'm just inclined to believe he just forgot about her.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:45
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Did Battler ever interact with her outside of the family conference before his mother died?
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Aug 25, 2017 17:48
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Battler was dense and didn't realize Shannon was in love with him in the first place - probably thought 'god, she was just putting up with me being a completely embarrassing middle schooler because she's a servant'. I don't think Kyrie would hide a letter, and George has issues, but somehow I don't think he'd be that petty - that's more his mother's MO. He'd more likely to quietly fume and sulk.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:52
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... George was the one giving out the letters. I wonder if he had feelings for Shannon at this time and did not give her any letter from Battler at all. Even if the letter was just a how are you letter.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:05
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A good Battler would at least remember that girl he used to discuss mystery novels with. From the looks of it, Battler spent just as much time with Shannon as he did with Jessica, so even if he didn't write Shannon a letter he could maybe mention her in the letter to Jessica (who wouldn't hesitate to tell her I'm sure.)SystemLogoff posted:... George was the one giving out the letters. I wonder if he had feelings for Shannon at this time and did not give her any letter from Battler at all. Even if the letter was just a how are you letter. Battler's behavior in 1986 sure seems to indicate he forgot she even existed.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:09
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I really hope Battler just forgot about Shannon. If he wrote a letter to Shannon and then completely forgot her existence just in 3 years, uhhh he might have some terrible memories
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Aug 25, 2017 18:12
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Most importantly, if this isn't actually Battler's doing it kind of destroys the entire conflict between him and Beatrice that's central to the game.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:14
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Welcome to the greatest unsolved Mystery of Umineko.  Was George an extra special prick, and hid a letter Battler wrote? http://www.strawpoll.me/13785987
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Aug 25, 2017 18:15
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George did nothing wrong (except the whole weird age thing that no one seemed to care in the context of the story). He's just a goony dude that don't know how to act naturally around the girl he likes.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:16
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Yeah - hiding a letter is something Eva would do, George would just sulk if he saw it.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:58
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ZiegeDame posted:Battler's behavior in 1986 sure seems to indicate he forgot she even existed. You're not wrong, but it's a little ambiguous. In EP1 his first reaction to Jessica mentioning her name was "Shannon? ......Shannon. ...Aaaaahh... Yeah, I remember a girl with that name! Is she still a servant? How's she doing?!" (updated translation). No internal narration about Shannon in the scene yet at that point. It could possibly be he's playing dumb and/or is just surprised she's still working there. In EP3, his thoughts: "Actually, six years ago, I remember taking notice of her just a little bit. I see, she really fits well with George-aniki, nothing I can do about that. ...Goodbye, my fleeting first love of six years ago... ......Which means that...the collection of embarrassing lines Shannon-chan had just held back on... probably had something to do with that... Aaaaaaaaaaarrghh, I can't take it..." It's plausible that he'd forgotten about his first crush's entire existence but even for Battler that seems pretty awful. Clearly he didn't give much weight to his pony lines though.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:16
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All of that indicates that Battler can remember Shannon if prompted, but she probably hadn't crossed his mind for 6 years.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:55
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Timewise, how does this align with Maria's stuff again? On mobile and can't spend the effort to work through posts.
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Aug 25, 2017 20:11
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Sindai posted:Most importantly, if this isn't actually Battler's doing it kind of destroys the entire conflict between him and Beatrice that's central to the game. You mean that the whole thing is useless, all useless?
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Aug 25, 2017 20:34
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Instead of trying to blame this on George or Battler, let's just all blame Kinzo.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:11
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I also think it's kind of hard to blame a 12 year old for trying to sound cool then forgetting about it.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:21
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Honestly I never liked the "George hid the letter" interpretation because it really does lessen the impact of Battler's actions in all this. It ruins the whole sin of "he forgot about Shannon" if there's a twist that he did remember, but George was a dick and Shannon just got played. Plus it unnecessarily demonizes George to almost a scapegoat degree to my eyes. George isn't a super great guy as he presents himself to be, but he's not malicious. Ryukishi himself said in an interview that he was aware of the differing interpretations and leaves it up to the reader to decide. Without love it cannot be seen indeed.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:I also think it's kind of hard to blame a 12 year old for trying to sound cool then forgetting about it. Yeah, this. He maybe even have 100% meant what he said, when he said it, but he was still 12 at the time. And since then, his life has gone through some pretty massive changes, whereas Shannon has essentially remained stuck in the same place.
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Aug 25, 2017 23:02
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My position is that Battler honestly forgot but, if there had been a letter, George would have hidden it. Everyone is awful!
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Aug 25, 2017 23:14
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I really doubt George would hide the letter, that is a level of malice and pettiness he doesn't show to possess. He gets jealous, he thinks badly, but he keeps it internal. But yeah - it's definitely Battler being a middle school kid and having a poo poo ton of things happening to him so priority went to trying to get his stuff together. Also interesting to note that his grandparents are partly involved in the feud.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:51
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Robindaybird posted:I really doubt George would hide the letter, that is a level of malice and pettiness he doesn't show to possess. He gets jealous, he thinks badly, but he keeps it internal. I mean, it would make sense, considering that their son-in-law immediately remarried before their daughter's body went cold (exaggeration). While I don't think George hid the letter, because that doesn't seem to be his style, I'm still getting the feeling that he does something before attempting to court Shannon for real. Zakrelo posted:Instead of trying to blame this on George or Battler, let's just all blame Kinzo. I always do this.
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Aug 26, 2017 02:33
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Robindaybird posted:Also interesting to note that his grandparents are partly involved in the feud. Maternal grandparents, remember. Can't imagine they were too happy about their daughter's husband remarrying so quickly, or the cheating while she was still alive.
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Aug 26, 2017 02:37
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Confused Llama posted:Okay, hang the heck on. I can understand how Yasu would go about introducing Kanon as another kid from the orphanage, if the Ushiromiyas don't pay too much attention to the Fukuin House records themselves and just tell them to send kids over every once in a while. I mean, something similar had to happen with the creation of Shannon in the first place. But just arbitrarily declaring, with a snap of the fingers, that Kanon is "a special servant who is permitted to serve Kinzo directly"? How in hell does that work? It definitely requires Genji to be complicit, at the very least, and might just be straight-up impossible, considering that I don't believe Kinzo's dead yet at this point - isn't the 1986 conference either only the second or third at which he's been dead? Well, if that was true of Shannon, then it's automatically true of Kanon as well. The problem is we don't have enough information here, and have no idea how much Kinzo knew. An alternate possibility is that similar to the "witches exist outside of human sight" thing, it's a logical ruse for why they don't see Kanon often - he's "serving Kinzo". Since none of the other servants except Genji can really counter that argument, and Genji's always really been deceiving Kinzo anyways, that's not outside the realm of possibility. It's the second conference since Kinzo's death, by the way. ZiegeDame posted:^^^ If Battler saw it, it really happened, or this story was never a Mystery to begin with. We know this is also true of Erika for episodes 5 and 6. What I still intend to figure out at some point is how Kanon and Shannon can appear in the same room for those. Interestingly enough, the manga (that I got today) also gives some specific examples on what detective's authority covers and doesn't. (I do like the stuff at the end of book 2 of episode 6, on that note.) bman in 2288 posted:While I don't think George hid the letter, because that doesn't seem to be his style, I'm still getting the feeling that he does something before attempting to court Shannon for real. I'm still of the opinion that he has to be in on the conspiracy. We know from episode 4 that conspirators' next of kin get the gold code. Eva got one, so it's not unlikely that George was a conspirator. resurgam40 posted:So Kanon, more than being some whimsy by which Yasu might experience how being a different person (with a different gender) feels... began as a device to forgyet about Battler, and about the hole in Yasu's heart left behind. To paper over an image of loss and abandonment by a callow lover by creating an imaginary friend for your imaginary friend... it's a deep suppression of emotions, the kind that too many people are told to do, a thing in which, instead of dealing with our grief, we just... well, turn it off. (See here for a somewhat lighter treatment of the same subject matter) And as has been brought up, this couldn't have happened without Genji or Kumasawa's knowledge, so how exactly did that work? Was there any discussion about this, any at all, as to why Yasu would suddenly pretend to be a boy named Kanon for some hours of the day? Or did they just kinda go with it when Yasu said "Kay, when I put on my waistcoat and purple hat, call me Kanon"? I'd like to beliee the former, but given that actual rape was going on in Kuwadorian and both of them didn't stop it and even tried to justify it in their heads... this speaks to weakness on their part. This does put an interesting spin on Jessica's conversation with Kanon about a similar topic in episode 2, which I've constantly had to change my reading of.
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Aug 26, 2017 04:50
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Shannon seemed like she's in the house 24/7. It would be mean to call her out on her roleplaying hobby, since it's ultimately harmless.
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Aug 26, 2017 05:10
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Tired Moritz posted:Shannon seemed like she's in the house 24/7. It would be mean to call her out on her roleplaying hobby, since it's ultimately harmless. Until it results in murder.  D&D... is bad?
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Aug 26, 2017 05:12
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Cyouni posted:Eva got one, When did this happen?
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Aug 26, 2017 05:15
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Battler only wrote the letters because he was reminded to, and I doubt Kyrie said "you really should write letters to your cousins, but also to any servants you happen to remember".
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Aug 26, 2017 05:18
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I'm about to die from a hurricane, but have another Umineko doodle done from my phone.
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Aug 26, 2017 06:13
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ZiegeDame posted:When did this happen? George's murder scene, episode 3.
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Aug 26, 2017 08:46
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Cyouni posted:It's the second conference since Kinzo's death, by the way. EagerSleeper posted:I'm about to die from a hurricane, but have another Umineko doodle done from my phone.
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Aug 26, 2017 10:13
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For the record, Kinzo died in 1985 before the conference of that year. This is why when 1986 rolls around, the adults of the group are suspicious about how Kinzo isn't showing his face for the second year in a row. This is mentioned in early EP 5.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:20
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EagerSleeper posted:I'm about to die from a hurricane, but have another Umineko doodle done from my phone. Keep safe Hurricane buddy! Also, this is now my default image for Kanon/Yasu during the entire 1986 conference with Battle around.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:03
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Cyouni posted:George's murder scene, episode 3. I'm not sure that really counts as being given to Eva, unless they came to some sort of agreement earlier on Beato decided to deliver on her end using George's blood because gently caress you Eva. Which isn't impossible, since there's still a lot about Episode 3 that isn't fixed so we can't say much for sure about what exactly happened outside the beginning and the end.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:17
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