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If he’ll pardon Arpaio, why wouldn’t Trump pardon those who ignore Robert Mueller?WaPo posted:Again: The pardon power is absolute. There aren’t many powers in the federal government about which that word applies, but pardoning is one of them. With that power, Trump can send a message about how and where he feels the rule of law should apply. Or, more accurately, Trump can shape how and where those rules apply. He can, as long as he has that power, grant immunity to anyone he wishes for any federal crime they commit.
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Aug 26, 2017 14:33
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Wasabi the J posted:Wonder if there's a way the pardon would backfire. An unclear thing about pardons is that they appear to carry an admission of guilt when the pardoned person accepts the pardon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States Arpaio's lawyer was stating that they were trying to dismiss the case against him now, but I don't think that's a possible thing. The reason I bring this up is because Arpaio is going to spend the rest of his life getting personally sued to hell and back in civil actions by the many, many people he hosed over. The pardon he accepted may have just made those civil cases a lot easier for the people he hosed over.
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Aug 26, 2017 14:47
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think we should make exceptions in cases we have sympathy for, because it erodes the idea of living in a nation of laws. See: jurors refusing to convict the Bundy ranchers. You do know that Gorsuch's opinion was a dissent and that most of the people who heard the case thought that his reasoning was dumb and bad?
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Aug 26, 2017 14:51
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Stultus Maximus posted:You do know that Gorsuch's opinion was a dissent and that most of the people who heard the case thought that his reasoning was dumb and bad? Gorsuch bad, breaking news Also Facebook and instagram are experiencing large service outages. Wonder if it was a Texas server farm that got hit or unrelated?
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Aug 26, 2017 15:01
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Doubtful. They have a pretty robust site redundancy scheme, so a single data center being down shouldn't affect services.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:05
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M_Gargantua posted:Also Facebook and instagram are experiencing large service outages. Wonder if it was a Texas server farm that got hit or unrelated? Where will get our hot takes and pictures of hot plates?
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Aug 26, 2017 15:05
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bird food bathtub posted:You can like or dislike the reasoning for Manning's pardon, I personally didn't like it, but let me know when Manning develops time travel and goes back in time to put all of her political weight behind Obama during his campaign so that her pardon is the result of oligarchic quid pro quo. Manning's sentence was commuted after serving 7(?) years in prison. Different from a pardon. Could argue that she deserved more time, but she did serve a good stretch of time for her crime.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:16
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Dead Reckoning posted:I agree that the driver being granted immunity is the normative good outcome, but I think there is a reasonable argument that the law as written didn't provide him legal cover to abscond with his employer's property in order to save his life, and the horrible choice between dying or losing his job is the fault of the legislature, and their responsibility to fix. There isn't a legal argument for what the trucking company did. They gave him an instruction (stay with or pull a non-functioning trailer) both of which put his life in immediate danger, so he left the trailer behind. He was not fired for driving off in the truck. He was fired for abandoning the trailer. If he had got a cab and left both tractor and trailer behind he would have got fired just the same and been covered likewise under the law. You're right that the legislature's job is to fix hosed up laws, but it is also 100% the court's job to interpret the law. This stupid "black letter of the law says this beep boop" poo poo isn't how the courts in the USA have ever operated and is a modern invention in order to restrict some people's rights while bolstering others.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:26
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https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/901389819225485314 I hope he gets hits with a shitload of lawsuits.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:17
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Missionary Positron posted:https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/901389819225485314 Maybe. First he has to accept the pardon. Arpaio will actually need to notify the court that he has accepted it. Second, the court has to determine if he's still covered under arizona's various immunity statutes that do not seem to care if the government official's conduct was unlawful at first glance. It may open him up to some federal suits, but state-wise I think people are pretty much hosed because of SOL or just flat out immunity. The bigger issue is, if accepted, he is openly admitting guilt and waives all 5th amendment rights regarding his illegal activity. He basically has to be truthful about everything he did now whenever he's under oath or he will be tossed in jail/fined for contempt of court. There's no pardon for that. This includes matters where he is just a witness and not on trial.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:23
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Isn't it that he waives 5th Amendment protections for the crime he was pardoned for? So in this case he'd only be admitting he was in contempt of court, not any of the more heinous things he's done? Though I will admit that I'm unsure what the difference between 'Pardon' and 'Full Pardon' are, so it might be a moot point.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:39
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Well, contempt in that case meant violating the court order by profiling.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:40
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My guess is that the admission of guilt implies that the court was correct in its determination that he was racially profiling, which could then be used in pending civil suits.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:43
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My expert opinion: if he accepts the pardon he will die having gotten away with it and feeling zero repercussions in the future. If he doesn't accept the pardon, he won't serve any time anyway.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:51
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Seems like Trump felt a little nervous about a unrepentant old racist dying in prison for the crimes he committed to improve his own political and personal fortunes and felt the need to normalize issuing a pardon as such. Makes u think.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:00
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Coffeehitler posted:Isn't it that he waives 5th Amendment protections for the crime he was pardoned for? So in this case he'd only be admitting he was in contempt of court, not any of the more heinous things he's done? Though I will admit that I'm unsure what the difference between 'Pardon' and 'Full Pardon' are, so it might be a moot point. He was convicted for violating an injunction. If he accepts the pardon, he admits he's guilty of violating the injunction and loses protections related. So he loses all protections from self incrimination with regards to that particular injunction because he cannot be found guilty of violating it again. So yes, he was only convicted of contempt, but it's the underlying source of the criminal contempt for which he loses protection.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:13
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I wonder if the judges down the line will have it out for him more than in other instances of immunity since this is nullifying a court order and not just pulling the rug out of some prosecutor. E: And also because this is a pretty clear reward for being loyal, I can't imagine it sits well with the judiciary. Can pardons be bought? Is it illegal if there is a clear quid pro quo? The Orgasm Sanction fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 17:28
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Pretty much the president has universal pardon powers. The check on this is supposed to be congressional impeachment but 
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Aug 26, 2017 17:42
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Mr. Nice! posted:Pretty much the president has universal pardon powers. The check on this is supposed to be congressional impeachment but If he starts messing with the Mueller investigation using pardon powers, I think there will be enough Republicans to eject him.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:43
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Stultus Maximus posted:If he starts messing with the Mueller investigation using pardon powers, I think there will be enough Republicans to eject him. Would you be willing to bet on that? Because I wouldn't.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:47
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:Would you be willing to bet on that? not empty quoting
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Aug 26, 2017 19:12
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Who's watch McGregor get his poo poo pushed in tonight?
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Aug 26, 2017 19:16
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That Works posted:
also not empty quoting
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Aug 26, 2017 19:17
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:Would you be willing to bet on that?
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Aug 26, 2017 19:21
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tastefully arranged labia posted:Who's watch McGregor get his poo poo pushed in tonight? It's going to be a whale watch. Most likely boring and unexciting, but I'm going to look in the event something exciting actually happens. And I'm going to watch it illegally because gently caress the boxing commission.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:24
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tastefully arranged labia posted:Who's watch McGregor get his poo poo pushed in tonight? I can watch a 2 minute video on YouTube tomorrow without paying $90.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:25
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I think best case scenario at this point is to limit the irreversible dumb poo poo trump can do to the country as a whole and wait until 2018 when republicans will hopefully lose majority. This is absolute best case, and a lot of chips need to fall into place for it to happen. Also this will be the first Mayweather fight I haven't paid for in over a decade.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:25
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tastefully arranged labia posted:Who's watch McGregor get his poo poo pushed in tonight? Closed the taco truck for the fight and am having people over. There is a chance albeit very slim that McGregor knocks floyd out cold like he has done so many other tiny guys he's fought. However he's missing the bulk of his skillset that allowed him to do that in MMA. Most likely outcome is Floyd takes it to an easy decision after Conor gasses trying to knock out the best defensive boxer ever. I wouldn't be surprised with Floyd KOing a gassed McGregor in the 6th, either. Then again Floyd is 40 and has been sitting on his rear end relatively speaking for two years and is taking this fight just to pay a tax bill. So i mean he could get caught flat footed and put to sleep. Conor has the power. I'm having a bunch of people over so it's an excuse to party and has a chance of a really bad KO from either direction so it's worth watching to me. Idgaf about any other match because boxing usually just isn't interesting.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:28
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Zeroisanumber posted:I can watch a 2 minute video on YouTube tomorrow without paying $90. Look at this peasant who won't pay the extra $10 for HD because HD totally costs that much and paying for this match isn't a waste of money
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Aug 26, 2017 19:28
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Stultus Maximus posted:If he starts messing with the Mueller investigation using pardon powers, I think there will be enough Republicans to eject him. The current Republican strategy is to quietly isolate Trump with legislation behind the scenes so President Pissbaby can yell and scream in his crib and hopefully smear poo poo all over everything just a little bit before he's done. To get to THAT point he had to loudly, publicly, and repeatedly fail to condemn Nazi murder on American soil in the exact same manner as multiple foreign terrorist attacks in very recent memory to include the one like two days later that Trump Twitter-bashed within hours, and openly declare war on members of his own political party for slighting him. There's a really strong argument to be made that Trump IS the Republican party now because he stole enough of the hardcore white supremacist base that anyone attempting to individually defy him or that base will either get murdered by the rest of the party (presumably in a primary contest but increasingly possible that it's literal) or if enough of them band together to make it stick they fracture the entire GOP and lose everything.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:32
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Mr. Nice! posted:Closed the taco truck for the fight and am having people over. . You have no idea how much I would like to be able to say " I closed the taco truck" some day.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:20
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Laranzu posted:You have no idea how much I would like to be able to say " I closed the taco truck" some day. Veterans small business loan
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Aug 26, 2017 20:22
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Youd think after enlisting most of you would have had enough of watching idiots get struck in the head
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Aug 26, 2017 20:28
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tastefully arranged labia posted:Who's watch McGregor get his poo poo pushed in tonight? It's streaming on some service named DAZN here, which is only 10 bucks monthly, but there's a free trial month, so we checked, and it looks like this'll be free for us. Also, Trump is president. In this alternate reality, I have no doubt that a guy making his professional boxing debut on a global and record-breaking stage will somehow defeat the greatest defensive boxer ever. I'm excited for all the dumb circus surrounding it, like thirty-nine people standing in the ring, twenty celebrities walking out with each fighter, official introductions taking four full hours, and some form of perceivable corruption. You know...boxing.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:29
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The lines are kind of insane for the fight, books have Mayweather anywhere from -350 to -600ish. That means that there are a lot of
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Aug 26, 2017 20:44
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Jase1 noted mma/sports better and gambling goon has 50k on floyd to win 15k.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:46
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Mr. Nice! posted:Jase1 noted mma/sports better and gambling goon has 50k on floyd to win 15k. I have a little bit on him to win 4:1, gonna check lines in a few hours and see if they move and might put a little more, but lol, no way I would put 50k up.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:49
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Mr. Nice! posted:Jase1 noted mma/sports better and gambling goon has 50k on floyd to win 15k. i can't think of anything i'd bet 5k let alone 50 on
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Aug 26, 2017 20:56
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I'd bet 50k that the Trump admin will have another scandal within the next two weeks.
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Aug 26, 2017 21:01
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I hope they stop during the middle of the fight and hi-5, then Mayweather falls down and the mick wins so we finally accept that ppv fighting is a giant farce
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Aug 26, 2017 21:01
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