Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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Dark Off: Aug 14, 2015

Combat Theory posted:

Soooooooooo after the most legendary "catched up with the thread" struggle of ages, I have finally returned, hello friends.

What I should post first has been quite an interesting question, but luckily it was answered for me with yesterday's presentation disaster.

I won't post about how the idris looks like a joke even compared to the morrow tour, I won't post about "The ramp" and I won't post about the atmospheric flight being an abomination that everyone with a bit of understanding of high school physics could have seen long ago when calculating the acceleration reserves of the ships.

I won't even post about the hilarious face cap technology that will never work over networking...

What I decided to comment on is much smaller and much more telling about CIGs way of thinking in my opinion. The buggy. Well not exactly buggy but that 6 wheeled Apc they archered from Alien 2.

We all know that cry engine has a class for vehicles with okay-ish functionality. Indeed they used that for the grey cat for example (that buggy thing for the hangar)
But that's not what the APC or any of the levitation vehicles run on.

Now before we go into what these new fidelitious star citizen vehicles run on, we should go into how stuff like wheeled or tracked vehicles actually work and how they are simulated in video games. Because that's quite the ample topic with many possible handwaving I'll just break it down to the absolute core. The MVP for driving so to speak. That's the chassis and suspension technology. No matter if you use engines, rockets, muscle force or horses, the suspension and chassis setup and/or its simulation is the critical factor for driving behavior in real life and accuracy of a simulated system in virtual worlds.

In real life, a chassis is a volumetric elastic body with varying mass and varying center of gravity. In real life, suspensions are made of several linear and non linear elastic components, all with non linear dampening characteristics. Depending on the suspension type, you have a non linear varying roll axis, pitch axis and yaw axis, as well as non linear movement of the wheel, resulting in changes of camber, caster and the like.We can simulate them to a highly accurate degree virtually, but that takes days of calculations for a single second of run time.

In video games and especially racing simulations, a few general short cuts are taken.

The chassis is at least a volumetric rigid body with a set mass.

The suspension per wheel is an ideal spring and dampener at least. The suspension geometry is rigid. There is almost always a change of camber and caster and they often influence the force that can be transmitted by the tire. Most games, even simple driving models, simulate anti roll bars. All simulate pitch and roll of the chassis as a result of the mechanical forces on the elastic suspension during dynamic driving.

In short, although a simpler mechanic, all driving simulations from GTA over flat out to asetto corsa have in common that they use a mechanical model with clearly defined mechanical parameters and apply forces to it to simulate a realistic behavior of the chassis under dynamic driving. The behavior here is the result of the mechanics. This is important.

Now for star citizen.
As I said cry engine has a little package for simple vehicles like the grey cat which is a rudimentary mechanical driving model. But the apc had nothing to do with it. What the apc does is it completely splits the chassis from the wheels. The chassis runs on it's own behavior and the wheels have an independent code to "look like they guide it on the surface"
This becomes very clear when you look at what the chassis does when the vehicle runs over an obstacle for example. It does something no chassis of a wheeled vehicle ever does in real life or simulation. It stays still. There is a ton more indicators for this lack of actual mechanical connection between the wheels and the chassis too, like the lack of harmonics, the lack of feedback into the chassis etc. But the most telling thing is really that the chassis doesn't care if a wheel is fully compressing it's suspension.

I asked myself what would result in such behavior and what keeps the chassis in it's vertical position and the answer is as disappointing as funny. It's the same IFCS monstrosity that keeps the ships and the hover vehicles going.

IFCS is a strictly high order system. This means it doesn't care for details like mechanical parameters. You tell the ifcs "how something moves" not what keeps it moving that way. This means the entire mechanical simulation is floating. It's parameters don't matter. What matters is how you envision something to look like and the IFCS will use whatever it has available to achieve that movement pattern. This means that a spring might force 10 kilonewton between its ends at a certain compression, but when it gets compressed more it suddenly goes down to 0.1 kilonewton. This behavior is impossible for a spring, it goes against what a mechanical spring would ever do. But it is what the IFCS tells the spring to do in order to achieve a certain movement pattern.
This focus on the movement instead of mechanics is very similar to how a drone like a quadrocopter works, or a robotic arm. This kind of aproach to a full on vehicle simulation though, apart from the very strictly limited realm of zero G spaceflight, will always result in nightmarish and unsatisfying driving and flight behavior.

This use of a high order IFCS system is why the chassis doesn't give anything about the position of the individual wheel. And this is why the Rover can just gtfo into low earth orbit occasionally like the nox does when something goes haywire.

But you have to understand what this means for a gameplay versus cinematic design side. For gameplay, this is disastrous. It means that the player is unabled to predict what a vehicle is gonna do because we humans don't have a feeling for movement parameters, we have a feeling for repeatable mechanics. At the same time it's a blessing to the cinematics, because you can now go and tell a live simulation of a vehicle "how to look like" instead of going the route of actually finding a mechanical tune to support that visual appeal (which is likely impossible, because what looks good usually doesn't drive good) and now that you read this about the vehicle suspension, you should all take a good look at the ships landing gear too.

This whole train of thought behind this system, the tons of work that must have went into it and the horror that this system made it through a whole 400+ employees company without anyone of the "experienced game designers" asking "why the gently caress are we doing this instead of using something that works guaranteed and is easy to do" is what's the most telling about this whole project.

case in point from the gamescom demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCbvu-uF4o&t=4978s
just look how bad the movement is

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:16

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# ? May 21, 2024 23:34

Erenthal: Jan 1, 2008; A relaxing walk in the woods; Grimey Drawer

xXAdmiralBekHarXx posted:

Its already subsided for the most part. Some people want more professional presentations but are reaasured everything is going great at CIG.

When they run this demo at Gamescom next year they might even have AI attacking the players at the ambush site and not need employees pretending!

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:16

McGiggins: Apr 4, 2014; by R. Guyovich; Lipstick Apathy

If this ever becomes a real game, who else will join me in printing out the Parp face on some paper, putting it in front of their webcam for the foip thingy system or whatever, and doing SS-style executions of nerds on the decks of their ships?

Star Citizen really is Game of the year.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:16

KM Scorchio: Feb 13, 2008; "If you don't find rape hilarious, you're a sensitive crybaby."

Star Citizen is the game of every year.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:25

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Their MMO, which has been in development since 2011 (gently caress you Chris and your "full production" bullshit), can't handle the pilot of a multicrew vessel disconnecting from the rest of the party. Their MMO doesn't have AI, and required a full crew of people to fake a mission experience. Their MMO couldn't handle a rover driving on to a ramp without exploding, or feature two large ships fighting without turning into a slide show. Their MMO is so poorly programmed that they had to script a ship exploding when it got shot. Their MMO is poo poo.

Their MMO is being designed by a "visionary" who, given a year to develop a vignette to show off his dream for gameplay, could only come up with a lovely fetch quest. A visionary who is more concerned about marketing VOIP and some lovely webcam over producing any kind of gameplay. A visionary who believes things done a decade ago are somehow novel or interesting. Their MMO is being designed by an idiot.

Their MMO isn't a MMO. It's a case study in poor design practices, the perils of lovely oversight, the gullibility of gamer, and the myth of the "Great Man" game developer. It's a condemnation of Chris Roberts and irrefutable proof that he is a fraud who is better at spending money than designing games.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:36

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Their MMO, which has been in development since 2011 (gently caress you Chris and your "full production" bullshit), can't handle the pilot of a multicrew vessel disconnecting from the rest of the party. Their MMO doesn't have AI, and required a full crew of people to fake a mission experience. Their MMO couldn't handle a rover driving on to a ramp without exploding, or feature two large ships fighting without turning into a slide show. Their MMO is so poorly programmed that they had to script a ship exploding when it got shot. Their MMO is poo poo.

Their MMO is being designed by a "visionary" who, given a year to develop a vignette to show off his dream for gameplay, could only come up with a lovely fetch quest. A visionary who is more concerned about marketing VOIP and some lovely webcam over producing any kind of gameplay. A visionary who believes things done a decade ago are somehow novel or interesting. Their MMO is being designed by an idiot.

Their MMO isn't a MMO. It's a case study in poor design practices, the perils of lovely oversight, the gullibility of gamer, and the myth of the "Great Man" game developer. It's a condemnation of Chris Roberts and irrefutable proof that he is a fraud who is better at spending money than designing games.

He's failed 41 times to release a game called Squadron too.

Time for an engine change I think.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:44

Virtual Captain: Feb 20, 2017; Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

Combat Theory posted:

As I said cry engine has a little package for simple vehicles like the grey cat which is a rudimentary mechanical driving model. But the apc had nothing to do with it. What the apc does is it completely splits the chassis from the wheels. The chassis runs on it's own behavior and the wheels have an independent code to "look like they guide it on the surface"
This becomes very clear when you look at what the chassis does when the vehicle runs over an obstacle for example. It does something no chassis of a wheeled vehicle ever does in real life or simulation. It stays still. There is a ton more indicators for this lack of actual mechanical connection between the wheels and the chassis too, like the lack of harmonics, the lack of feedback into the chassis etc. But the most telling thing is really that the chassis doesn't care if a wheel is fully compressing it's suspension.

Thanks for that. I could see something was a little off but couldn't quite put my finger on it because there are a few occasions when one or two wheels left the ground completely.

I happened across the july studio report. Is has some obvious early 2017 gamescom demo images. So I would guess that they started pulling resources into that yearly project by at least late June. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16043-Monthly-Studio-Report-July-2017

Almost same mission description:

Black box:

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:44

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

xXAdmiralBekHarXx posted:

The fans cheered when chris refused to give any dates. They cheered when they woke up from wankpod. They cheered when it didnt crash a second time making a simple spaceship flight. They cheered when the idris was 5-10 fps the entire time. They cheered when the idris crashed the server. They cheered when they revealed the webcam.

They're imbeciles

Source say that it was mostly employees and contractors involved in the project, doing that. Which is why it's not as loud and pronounced as it has been in the past shows.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:45

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Krycek posted:

This is gonna be derek's new avatar in a little bit.....

Hope you like yours. I picked it out specially for you.

SA Avatar War stats

Changed (me) x 17 @ $5

Changed (them) x5 (Variable 5, Lazrin, big nipples big life, Jobbo Fett, Krycek) @ $9.95

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 27, 2017

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:49

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Dark Off posted:

case in point from the gamescom demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCbvu-uF4o&t=4978s
just look how bad the movement is

It looks like a hovercraft that has a set of wheels grafted onto the sides with frictionless suspension.

You get the impression that if it drove directly along the length of a channel in the rock where the width of the channel were greater than that of the main body of the vehicle but less than the width of the wheels, the body would sink lower than the wheels.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 14:52

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Their MMO, which has been in development since 2011 (gently caress you Chris and your "full production" bullshit), can't handle the pilot of a multicrew vessel disconnecting from the rest of the party. Their MMO doesn't have AI, and required a full crew of people to fake a mission experience. Their MMO couldn't handle a rover driving on to a ramp without exploding, or feature two large ships fighting without turning into a slide show. Their MMO is so poorly programmed that they had to script a ship exploding when it got shot. Their MMO is poo poo.

Their MMO is being designed by a "visionary" who, given a year to develop a vignette to show off his dream for gameplay, could only come up with a lovely fetch quest. A visionary who is more concerned about marketing VOIP and some lovely webcam over producing any kind of gameplay. A visionary who believes things done a decade ago are somehow novel or interesting. Their MMO is being designed by an idiot.

Their MMO isn't a MMO. It's a case study in poor design practices, the perils of lovely oversight, the gullibility of gamer, and the myth of the "Great Man" game developer. It's a condemnation of Chris Roberts and irrefutable proof that he is a fraud who is better at spending money than designing games.

Idris is not that big really. And its still a slideshow with just 2 of them. Lol.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:00

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Croberts right now is probably a target for every gamedev snake oil salesman out there, like the 'I P over face' people. Everyone's trying to pitch their own poo poo that will save the game: they might even try to arrange meetings behind the backs of whoever filters his comms.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:01

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

D_Smart posted:

Source say that it was mostly employees and contractors involved in the project, doing that. Which is why it's not as loud and pronounced as it has been in the past shows.

Chris Roberts is the Donald Trump of game development.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:03

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

SelenicMartian posted:

Croberts right now is probably a target for every gamedev snake oil salesman out there, like the 'I P over face' people. Everyone's trying to pitch their own poo poo that will save the game: they might even try to arrange meetings behind the backs of whoever filters his comms.

Yeah I don't believe for a second that he's gotten any better at selecting who he partners with.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:04

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010; Can't post for 1 minute!

no_recall posted:

Idris is not that big really. And its still a slideshow with just 2 of them. Lol.

lol the idris is just the size of a cutter and they consider it "capital ship combat" in SC? Elite has had pvp capital ship combat since two years ago.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:07

Damn Dirty Ape: Jan 23, 2015; I love you Dr. Zaius

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Yeah I don't believe for a second that he's gotten any better at selecting who he partners with.

His partners are even worse at it than he is.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:08

McGiggins: Apr 4, 2014; by R. Guyovich; Lipstick Apathy

Two Weeks!

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:12

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

drat Dirty Ape posted:

His partners are even worse at it than he is.

But enough about Sandi.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:13

Bubbacub: Apr 17, 2001

Daztek posted:

http://i.imgur.com/nCKt13W.gifv

I don't understand why Chris is so proud of Miles Eckhart. The dialogue sounds like it was archered from the original Deus Ex.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:15

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Klyith posted:

MVP stuff

I honestly thought that the GamesCom announcement was going to show off the PU in a quasi-functional state that they would deploy as "The MVP 3.0".

Little did we know it was just an additional year of work on a scripted demo that nobody outside of the trained CIG team could play, and a Far Cry vehicle level that couldn't hold itself together for longer than 15 minutes.

I thought there would be enough semi-competent material to pick on, and the backers would have some sort of foothold to go to battle against us and each other with. But there's not.

The "planetary tech" is a broken Crysis map.

Everything else is a fake, highly scripted demo run by people ensuring it looks right.

I guess you can say "they will eventually nail down a guy sitting at a table and drinking a drink for their cafeteria scene" and "it looks like they have a Nox bike you can drive on a ground level with noclip and maybe you can shoot each other". But that's also with the underlying if you have a supercomputer plugged into the game running on a LAN system dedicated to it and even then it's 15 minute segments before it crashes from enormous memory leaks.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:17

Golli: Jan 5, 2013

How in the world is a new player supposed to even do this level one fetch quest?

Without:
A weapon ($)
A rover ($$)
A rover-carrier/bus ($$$)
A capital-ship escort ($$$$)
Friends (priceless)

If this doesn't epitomize pay-to-win, I don't know what does.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:24

Asproigerosis: Mar 13, 2013; insufferable

Oh dear, wandered into the dev time topic on their forum. Just groaned when the OP lists the dev time for a bunch of games. A curious choice that all of them are sequels, until you see where the citizen math comes in. The dude lists the first official announcement for the game to release, but then tacks on a mystery 'hidden development' time that rounds out the times closer to the decade scale for citizens. Of course this only works by choosing all sequels of big games and counting the time between the original game release and first announcement as the 'hidden development' time. Being completely accepting of a 10+ year development is insanity.

the real dev timescale posted:

Overview of development time of some AAA Games of different genre:
- Diablo III: 2001 - May 2012 - 11,5 years - First announcement: Jun 2008 -> public awareness: 4 years / hidden development phase: 7,5 years
- Diablo II: 199x - Jun 2000 - ? years - First announcement: May 1998 -> puplic awareness: 2 years / hidden development phase: ? years
- Star Craft II: 2003 - Jul 2010 - 7 years - First announcement: May 2007 -> public awareness: 3 years / hidden development phase: 4 years
- Final Fantasy XIV: Late 2004/beginning 2005- Sep 2010 - ~ 5,5 years - First announcement: 2009 -> public awareness: 1,5 years / hidden development phase: 4 years
- Final Fantasy XV: 2006 - Nov 2016 - 10 years - First announcement: 2006/2013 -> public awareness 10 years
- Doom 4: 2007 - May 2016 - 9 years - First announcement 2008 -> public awareness: 9 years / hidden development phase: ? years -> in 2007 it was already in development, no information when development starts.
- Mass Effect: early 2004 - end of 2007 - ~ 4 years - First announcement Oct 2005 -> public awareness: 2 years -> hidden development phase: 2 years
- Mass Effect Andromeda: 2012 - March 2017 - 5 years - First announcement: Jun 2015 -> public awareness: 2 years -> hidden development phase: 3 years
- Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: 2004 - 2009 (PC) - 5 years - First announcement: 2006 -> public awareness: 3 years -> hidden development phase: 2 years
- Star Wars Battlefront: ??- Sept 2004 - > 2,5 years? -> First announcement: 2002 -> public awareness 2,5 years -> hidden development phase: ?

I'm sure this poo poo is old news to this thread, but I was delighted. Incredible considering the last time roberts tried to make a game he agonizingly poo poo out strike commander, falling into all of the exact same debacles as star citizens is suffering from now. I'm sure the crysis engine will still be great in 2020, I mean the 400+ developers have shown their unsurpassed mastery of the engine already.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:26

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Golli posted:

How in the world is a new player supposed to even do this level one fetch quest?

Without:
A weapon ($)
A rover ($$)
A rover-carrier/bus ($$$)
A capital-ship escort ($$$$)
Friends (priceless)

If this doesn't epitomize pay-to-win, I don't know what does.

What about :
Clear waypoints and path markers
Win or fail conditions.
Checkpoints.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:27

Dark Off: Aug 14, 2015

Bingo

punches above weight class has been refactored however

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:28

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

Golli posted:

How in the world is a new player supposed to even do this level one fetch quest?

Without:
A weapon ($)
A rover ($$)
A rover-carrier/bus ($$$)
A capital-ship escort ($$$$)
Friends (priceless)

If this doesn't epitomize pay-to-win, I don't know what does.

lol if you believe they even thought about how progression would work let alone have a design for it

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:28

xXAdmiralBekHarXx: Jul 11, 2017; by zen death robot

Asproigerosis posted:

Oh dear, wandered into the dev time topic on their forum. Just groaned when the OP lists the dev time for a bunch of games. A curious choice that all of them are sequels, until you see where the citizen math comes in. The dude lists the first official announcement for the game to release, but then tacks on a mystery 'hidden development' time that rounds out the times closer to the decade scale for citizens. Of course this only works by choosing all sequels of big games and counting the time between the original game release and first announcement as the 'hidden development' time. Being completely accepting of a 10+ year development is insanity.

I'm sure this poo poo is old news to this thread, but I was delighted. Incredible considering the last time roberts tried to make a game he agonizingly poo poo out strike commander, falling into all of the exact same debacles as star citizens is suffering from now. I'm sure the crysis engine will still be great in 2020, I mean the 400+ developers have shown their unsurpassed mastery of the engine already.

My favorite part is that someone cherrypicks the longest dev time games in history. Then a gaggle of people average the time out and say THAT is the average time for game development.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:28

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

In another KS which I backed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWCpzzG8dtE

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:30

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Bofast posted:

What does your heart tell you?

My heart tells me they should have either had the characters doing random head and eye movements controlled by each persons home pc, with the lips moving based on how much sound is coming from a mic. Maybe have a thing that if it's a real loud sound the character does a yelling sort of facial expression, but it would be controlled locally and be based entirely off of the sound itself, so you'd kill two birds with one stone.

I'd maybe think they could pull off tracking head aiming slightly but that would be a lot of data coming across and I don't think that'd be good in an MMO, so maybe peg things as "look at this" nodes, and the character would locally shift between the closest "look at this node", so if it's two characters they would appear to look at each other in turn, and in one on one each character would just look at the other character.

But I'm not a game developer. :3:

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:31

Toops: Nov 5, 2015; -find mood stabilizers
-also,

AP posted:

https://twitter.com/Dastro34/status/856463008347934720

and so it begins...

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:32

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

AP posted:

https://twitter.com/Dastro34/status/856463008347934720

They're going to mocap the sex scene. As directed by Chris Roberts.

Hint: there maebe tickling

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:35

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Golli posted:

How in the world is a new player supposed to even do this level one fetch quest?

Without:
A weapon ($)
A rover ($$)
A rover-carrier/bus ($$$)
A capital-ship escort ($$$$)
Friends (priceless)

If this doesn't epitomize pay-to-win, I don't know what does.

You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a lovely little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.

"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop poo poo that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:42

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Golli posted:

How in the world is a new player supposed to even do this level one fetch quest?

Without:
A weapon ($)
A rover ($$)
A rover-carrier/bus ($$$)
A capital-ship escort ($$$$)
Friends (priceless)

If this doesn't epitomize pay-to-win, I don't know what does.

Wait! You actually thought this presentation was anything other than for show - as always? :laffo:

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:43

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Latin Pheonix posted:

You should take a look at Spectrum, it's basically devolved into a civil war between angry backers and die-hards. Even some of the prominent believers are angry at the Gamescom presentation (Annabelle Huxley). A big part of the anger is basically that it's just a rehashed demo with a couple of gimmicks thrown in.

And don't forget Bethesda (Skyrim) too, CR shat on a 6 year old game that still has more gameplay than SC does.

I think being on Spectrum would involve me buying the game. Probably not likely to happen. Though I did go into their discord with the intent of stirring conversation, but I felt so bad for those guys I just couldn't stir their pot. There are people out there who aren't blatant dicks who are just hoping for Star Citizen to be real. I felt more sad for them and lost my urge to throw logical debate at them. I'd rather they enjoyed the game as much as they could before the inevitable letdown.

Spectrum might be more fun because they have the hardcore sect, but I'd just end up banned.

Also they shouldn't mess with Skyrim. I genuinely enjoyed it and thought it was super fun, albeit janky, but it worked mostly.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:44

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

Dark Off posted:

Bingo

punches above weight class has been refactored however

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:46

Mr Fronts: Jan 31, 2016; Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.

To be honest, I didn't spend 842 dollars on Star Citizen and expect it to be finished in 3-4-6 years time. I'd love to see a full release in 2022, or beyond. Hell, as long as its released by 2024-25 I'd be happy. I just pray they don't give up. As far as i'm concerned the longer the game is in development... the better of a game we'll get.

ALL HAIL GOD ROBERTS FOR CROWDFUNDING A GAME WITH NO INTENT OF RUSHING A GAME VIA DEADLINES

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:46

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

D_Smart posted:

Hope you like yours. I picked it out specially for you.

SA Avatar War stats

Changed (me) x 17 @ $5

Changed (them) x5 (Variable 5, Lazrin, big nipples big life, Jobbo Fett, Krycek) @ $9.95

Lol he made a joke about the fact your avatar keeps getting changed and you took it as a threat and spent :10bux:

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:48

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

Double post

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:48

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

no_recall posted:

I love that there's perceived power creep in a game with no content.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:49

Golli: Jan 5, 2013

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a lovely little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.

"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop poo poo that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.

Upon further reflection, I think this is supposed to be the end-game raid. SC's Onyxia.

This is your first day as a max-level Star Citizen.

The level one quests have you reporting to Star Citizen HR, getting issued coveralls and a mop for cafeteria duty.

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:51

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# ? May 21, 2024 23:34

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a lovely little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.

"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop poo poo that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it won't work. Like ever.

Especially since it's a multiplayer environment.

This is why multiplayer "quests" are usually designed for solo and grouping play in order to ensure that they don't break.

This "quest mission" was just a showcase. Nothing else. And I have no reason to believe that it will ever appear in the game as depicted. Let me illustrate what they're going to be faced with.

- You need a rail gun to take down that ship. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need a vehicle (Nox, Rover etc) to get to the crash site. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need an aircraft to take on the opposition (NPC | players). Without it, script breaks, mission fails

gently caress it, I had n-1 computations, and just decided to loving stop typing because it's pointless to even bother illustrating all the ways it will break and simply won't work

This is not those "take on pirates" or "flip a switch" missions in the PU which are purely for solo play.

If this mission was even for SQ42, that implies NPC will be doing those roles, the player will be directed to meet Miles, get a rail gun, find a vehicle, go get the box etc. And the Idris will be AI controlled as well.

:laffo:

if any of this poo poo is ever getting done, when they can't even get NPC pathfinding to work right.

Notice how, for 3.0, they didn't even bother playing ANY mission which would be designed for and released in that build.

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Aug 27, 2017

# ? Aug 27, 2017 15:53

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