|
kind of a lovely thing to do
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:16 |
|
|
Paradoxish posted:This is really unlikely to happen. This storm is going to be very bad, but the reason the potential for so much economic damage exists is because there's a huge amount of economic value there. Vulnerable cities like Houston may already be dead on their feet as we go into the coming decades, but that kind of abandonment will happen over a long period of time as economic interests slowly pack up and leave for higher ground. Major cities will always recover in the immediate aftermath of a huge storm because the cost of just abandoning salvageable but currently inoperable infrastructure is too high. The economic value is the infrastructure itself as well as the skilled workers who live in the area. With the infrastructure effectively kaput and the workers unable to live in the area for months the city is going to see a substantial loss in population. This isn't a small enough event where a rapid rebuilding phase can largely mitigate those losses- the equipment needed to rebuild Houston is going to be needed all over southeast Texas, and said equipment is going to need roads rebuilt before it gets there. In the meantime attempting to feed and support so many people is going to consume the bulk of available resources for at least the next few weeks if not longer. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:New Orleans is a vastly different situation. Very little of Houston is actually below sea level besides the roads. There was a purposeful attempt in New Orleans to basically kick all the black people out they could by not fixing their neighborhoods. welp at this point since it's conjecture based on meteor models ima hope you're right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
farraday posted:Agreed it's the re-occurrence of flooding. Getting 10 to 25 year floods every year to two years really makes you recalculate where you want your business to be. Yeah this is why most of the studies done on the economic impact of sea level rise focus more on storm surge/flooding levels than normal sea level at high or low tide. Being technically above sea level isn't much better than being underwater all the time if you're still dealing with catastrophic flooding every few years. Nobody is happy with buying a house that's only in the ocean 1% of the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
How long before people blame Obama for the response to Harvey?QuoProQuid posted:kind of a lovely thing to do Unlike the pigs blood myth, the pee tape is real.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Harvey's death toll is currently five  Don't be an rear end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
Throwing Turtles posted:So if I wanted to donate, is Global Giving a good place? I'd wait a bit to donate. It's going to be the coming days where we find out where the real issues are and where donations are really going to be most effective.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
skylined! posted:i googled literally your line of text and Yeah this is bullshit. Half of those "reasons" are loving dogwhistling. I don't really blame Snopes for taking it at face value, I genuinely don't think they are aware that those are the same excuses white people have always used to segregate communities. But they are.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:How long before people blame Obama for the response to Harvey? Obama didn't tell him where the FEMA phone was, its not Trump's fault he couldn't find it in the span of 7 months!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
Hastings posted:Hmmm.... that's odd, my grocery list says to buy a freezers worth of halo top ice cream. halo top is pretty good ice cream (note: it's good ice cream that's also pretty low calorie and fairly high in protein), so I recommend it. 👍 the pee tape ice cream is, unfortunately, super fake. (unlike the real pee tape)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
JasonV posted:I'd wait a bit to donate. It's going to be the coming days where we find out where the real issues are and where donations are really going to be most effective. I already donated some, that picture of the patients in the rest home was depressing as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
Discussion Quorum posted:I'm not "downplaying" flood damage. My parents flooded 2 years ago and they're flooding again right now. I just said it wouldn't result in the same massive permanent displacement as Katrina. But we don't know what type of displacement will occur. Houston's metropolitan area is so much larger population-wise than New Orleans, and sure, they might "only" have to relocate a few miles away to a new home location, but that's still displacement. Sure, I think it's safe to say that you won't see the same permanent exodus from the overall metropolitan area as we saw after Katrina, but the overall amount of damage and displacement of residents is going to be much larger. :fuckoff2:
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:The Red Cross? They help with pretty much every disaster everywhere. That was 50+ years ago. Theyre no better now. quote:In recent years, the Red Cross' fundraising expenses alone have been as high as 26 cents of every donated dollar, nearly three times the nine cents in [total] overhead claimed by McGovern. In the past five years, fundraising expenses have averaged 17 cents per donated dollar. https://www.propublica.org/article/red-cross-ceo-has-been-misleading-about-donations coyo7e fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:The economic value is the infrastructure itself as well as the skilled workers who live in the area. With the infrastructure effectively kaput and the workers unable to live in the area for months the city is going to see a substantial loss in population. This isn't a small enough event where a rapid rebuilding phase can largely mitigate those losses- the equipment needed to rebvuild Houston is going to be needed all over southeast Texas, and said equipment is going to need roads rebuilt before it gets there. In the meantime attempting to feed and support so many people is going to consume the bulk of available resources for at least the next few weeks if not longer. Here is a creepily complete set of cameras from all around the city: https://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/by_roadway.aspx?mnu=freeway&rd=SH-6 There is damage, you can see it. But there is no possible way you can click through these cameras and say "the infrastructure is effectively kaput" or that "workers will be unable to live in the area for month". The majority of the cameras and the majority of the city have no flooding at all. It is going to continue to get worse, and people are going to die and houses are going to get destroyed but don't get stuck in hyperbolic nonsense, this isn't going to destroy even a quarter of the city, or probably anything close.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Gnossiennes posted:halo top is pretty good ice cream (note: it's good ice cream that's also pretty low calorie and fairly high in protein), so I recommend it. 👍 Been said before, gonna be said again, but the fact we have to actively factcheck this stuff demonstrates just what a loving weird timeline this is. Edit: goddamnit, I can't stop. It's entirely plausible that a major news network would be defending the President's attacks on an ice cream company (and not some tiny little shop, but a largely distributed one) for making a flavor mocking the possible existence of his being blackmailed by a foreign government with his golden shower hooker tape. Thaddius the Large fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:How long before people blame Obama for the response to Harvey? Everyone knows this is just #fakenews, I'm sure Fox will have something up soon about how all other news services are lying
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:gently caress the Red Cross. It's a family thing for me because my dad and uncles piled sandbags all night to help fight a flood when they were younger, and then when they moved to dry ground to rest and refresh, they were shooed away from a table piled with coffee and food because it was only for the media, leaving them wet cold tired and hungry. The Red Cross and United Way are little more than money launderers for corporate donations these days. If I'm remember correctly Red Cross is run by a poo poo load of AT&T rejects who have been running it into the ground while milking the gently caress out of it to provide their buddies with high profile jobs. Koalas March posted:Yeah this is bullshit. Half of those "reasons" are loving dogwhistling. My NYC geography isn't what it used to be but the new location was still in the Upper West side and rich as gently caress. A mile seems like nothing for most people, but moving your kid's school a mile in Manhattan is a huge deal for logistics. Xae fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Here is a creepily complete set of cameras from all around the city: https://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/by_roadway.aspx?mnu=freeway&rd=SH-6 you'd be right if this episode was even close to being over
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:The economic value is the infrastructure itself as well as the skilled workers who live in the area. With the infrastructure effectively kaput and the workers unable to live in the area for months the city is going to see a substantial loss in population. This isn't a small enough event where a rapid rebuilding phase can largely mitigate those losses- the equipment needed to rebuild Houston is going to be needed all over southeast Texas, and said equipment is going to need roads rebuilt before it gets there. In the meantime attempting to feed and support so many people is going to consume the bulk of available resources for at least the next few weeks if not longer. Imagine the number of rental properties which will never be repaired, they'll just be insurance claims for landlords who will never rebuild, they'll just pray to sell to a developer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:gently caress the Red Cross. It's a family thing for me because my dad and uncles piled sandbags all night to help fight a flood when they were younger, and then when they moved to dry ground to rest and refresh, they were shooed away from a table piled with coffee and food because it was only for the media, leaving them wet cold tired and hungry.  All right then! Looks like I'll be looking for someone else to donate to!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
I don't know what to believe. On the one hand, I don't want to panic over hyperbole. But on the other hand, I don't want to fall into the trap of assuming that just because something bad hasn't happened yet, or hasn't happened in a long time, then that means it won't happen now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:gently caress the Red Cross. It's a family thing for me because my dad and uncles piled sandbags all night to help fight a flood when they were younger, and then when they moved to dry ground to rest and refresh, they were shooed away from a table piled with coffee and food because it was only for the media, leaving them wet cold tired and hungry. At this point you might as well just use a loving gofundme, and half of those are going to be scams, too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
Don't get me wrong, if you are in a hurry and you're just want to donate a dollar and feel better go ahead and send it to the Red Cross - because I'm sure $0.50 or more will get to someone who needs it eventually (not being snide, here.) However I would probably wait around for more local charity suggestions since even if they get too many donations they'll be able to rebuild with that money.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
Xae posted:My NYC geography isn't what it used to be but the new location was still in the Upper West side and rich as gently caress. A mile seems like nothing for most people, but moving your kid's school a mile in Manhattan is a huge deal for logistics. Maybe it's because I've never been to NY. If it really is that big a deal, then yeah I get it and apologize. But logistics is genuinely one thing, some of that other poo poo was still suspect as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
FourLeaf posted:I don't know what to believe. On the one hand, I don't want to panic over hyperbole. But on the other hand, I don't want to fall into the trap of assuming that just because something bad hasn't happened yet, or hasn't happened in a long time, then that means it won't happen now. Why does it matter? The degree you believe it will be bad to only actually makes a difference if you want to argue about theoreticals on the internet. The main question at this point is whether or not some of the dams fail over the next couple days, Imo. E: unless you're still in the area and trying to decide if you should evacuate, I guess. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
I can't really bring myself, not being an expert in meteorology or climate, to say how many deaths there will be or how many homes will be permanently lost at the end of this storm, but I can understand that, at the very least, it is "real loving bad," and the preparedness of the government institutions designed to deal with such disasters has been ill-equipped at best.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
Can't lie, I'm kind of enjoying watching owlofcreamcheese play out the climate science denialist tactic of 'nothing terrible has happened as of right now, so clearly we cannot extrapolate based on established trends and everything will be fine!' In the middle of what the actual experts are acknowledging as a disaster in progress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
For what it's worth, ProPublica actually has a pretty decent little article on the issues that Houston faces with flooding. Not sure if it's been posted before: https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/harvey quote:Many scientists, experts and federal officials say Houston's explosive growth is largely to blame, along with climate change. As millions have flocked to the metropolitan area in recent decades, local officials have largely rejected stricter building regulations, allowing developers to pave over acres of prairie land that once absorbed large amounts of rainwater. In the decade after Tropical Storm Allison, about 167,000 acres were developed in Harris County, home to Houston. The map below shows that a lot of the new development is in or near floodplains. Basically, Houston is in a bad place for a big, sprawling suburban city and Houston's planners don't want to come to terms with that fact.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
The red cross seemed to be marginally better in 2016, but they still only get 2 out of 4 stars for financial efficiency. https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3277 The united way is harder to nail down because they are splintered into seemingly hundreds of entities, with each state having 2 or 3 united ways. My local chapter (united way of central iowa) seems to be doing OK at 3 stars, but I'm sure other united ways are poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
skylined! posted:you'd be right if this episode was even close to being over I don't know man, it's possible for something to be bad without being the worst disaster in human history or the end of huston or huston is going to cease to exist. Hundreds of people are going to die and if it gets bad that might a thousand people. But people talking about this being the end of the city or the city having no infrastructure left standing or something are being absolutely absurd. Huston is mostly 50-80 feet above sea level, new orleans was 1 to 2 feet BELOW sealevel with a dam that kept the water out and the dam failed. The two are not comparable events. They can be both bad, but I think people are confusing "more cameras on the damage" with "more damage".
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
Speaking from my experiences with homelessness the Salvation Army will never get one cent or one hour of donated time from me. 100 years ago George Orwell was homeless and spent some time in a Salvation Army shelter, which he considered to be lovely and authoritarian by the standards of the time. (1920's England.) My experiences with the Salvation Army while homeless have lead me to conclude that fuckall has changed in that organization the 90 years hence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
I lived in Houston for 30 years but even a glance at photos of areas I am familiar with has me like "that's quite a bit more water than I've ever seen through the peak of all the other hurricanes I've been there for". And it's not over yet. Also a bunch of the buildings are liable to cause health problems for a while due to mold and such.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
My twin brother, my sister and her husband and two kids and my aunt all live in Houston and all of their homes are still high and dry. Feeling pretty lucky right now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't know man, it's possible for something to be bad without being the worst disaster in human history or the end of huston or huston is going to cease to exist. Hundreds of people are going to die and if it gets bad that might a thousand people. But people talking about this being the end of the city or the city having no infrastructure left standing or something are being absolutely absurd. How can you be so confident that assessment is "absurd", internet forums poster "owlofcreamcheese"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
N. Senada posted:What is this from? It's a quote from an episode of Chapo, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:Don't get me wrong, if you are in a hurry and you're just want to donate a dollar and feel better go ahead and send it to the Red Cross - because I'm sure $0.50 or more will get to someone who needs it eventually (not being snide, here.) As of right now, I'm basically waiting, yeah. I'll help my friends out directly however I can - if they need or want it - and hoping for tips for some local charities that can use some extra cash to rebuild.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
The thing that amazes me about the Red Cross and how much money it spends on fundraising, is that I've lived my entire life hearing their name constantly in all forms of media but I honestly can't recall having ever seen an advertisement They get priceless AND free advertising every time there is any kind of serious disaster or even a moderate one, when they're bored and have nothing to do.. I mean their name and symbol are the international sign of aid..!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Can't lie, I'm kind of enjoying watching owlofcreamcheese play out the climate science denialist tactic of 'nothing terrible has happened as of right now, so clearly we cannot extrapolate based on established trends and everything will be fine!' No, I'm saying hurricanes are always bad and people have died and lost their home in every hurricane and dumb dumbs in this thread get to watch this one on periscope and twitter so they think this is bigger than all the other ones that have happened in their life instead of those having all the same bad things happen quietly where they can't see. This is going to end the lives of many people, as did andrew and sandy and ike and whatever but because people get to watch this live they are treating it like some new biggest deal ever and ignoring that the other things happened too, just not on twitter so they were easier to ignore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:12
|
|
|
Other reasons why the Red Cross is poo poo, they threaten law suits for anyone using a red cross in any sort of design. Copyright/trademark/whatever law is bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:16 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't know man, it's possible for something to be bad without being the worst disaster in human history or the end of huston or huston is going to cease to exist. Hundreds of people are going to die and if it gets bad that might a thousand people. But people talking about this being the end of the city or the city having no infrastructure left standing or something are being absolutely absurd. I haven't argued that Houston is going to cease to exist, only that this event will leave it only able to support a fraction of its current population. This effectively is the end of Houston in its current form- it will go on of course but it will be a dramatically changed place with substantially fewer people living in it six months from now. I don;t think you appreciate just how much infrastructure is being damaged and just how difficult/expensive it will be to effect repairs on said infrastructure. I also do not think you quite appreciate just what sort of a logistical nightmare is going to begin to emerge over the next 3 days across all of south east Texas as people start to run out of first water, and then food.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 20:14
|
|