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I kind of wonder if Cap's Hydra became far more overtly evil in the event compared to Cap's conception of it in his comic leading up to the event because Marvel realized everyone was calling him Nazi Cap anyway and they didn't want to be accused of whitewashing it by making him an antihero. I assume at some point everyone involved realized the whole thing was a mistake (especially because of the bad timing with Trump unexepctedly winning) and wished they'd done something else, so last minute editorial changes wouldn't surprise me.
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Aug 27, 2017 02:53
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Uthor posted:I only skimmed, this is what jumped out, now I wanna read.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:09
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Sinteres posted:I kind of wonder if Cap's Hydra became far more overtly evil in the event compared to Cap's conception of it in his comic leading up to the event because Marvel realized everyone was calling him Nazi Cap anyway and they didn't want to be accused of whitewashing it by making him an antihero. I assume at some point everyone involved realized the whole thing was a mistake (especially because of the bad timing with Trump unexepctedly winning) and wished they'd done something else, so last minute editorial changes wouldn't surprise me. If they realized it was a mistake they would've canned it. No one was holding them at gunpoint forcing them to finish the story everyone told them not to publish.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:16
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Nazis are and they've been trying to get a message out.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:28
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Is Nick Spencer related to Richard Spencer?
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Aug 27, 2017 03:34
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Actual real world Nazis are trying to adopt Cap as a symbol of their movement and get turbo pissed if you tell them he was created by a Jewish man.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:34
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Do you all think Ike Perlmutter ever has Gary Cohn-esque regrets or does he comfort himself and ignore his role in making this poo poo happen by laser focusing in on how Trump is going to bomb their rear end and take their gas?Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is Nick Spencer related to Richard Spencer? No, Nick Spencer is a moronic bad Democrat who thinks poo poo like broken windows policing is awesome, not a Nazi This story is not a secret heil, it's him trying to be all poignant about how American institutions are being subverted and loving up massively because he can't write and is extremely fragile when he gets criticism. If you look at his twitter feed that's really clear, he thinks its all great and even more "necessary" now. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 27, 2017 |
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Aug 27, 2017 03:39
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I still think there's an art imitating life defense, in which Captain America being subverted to lead an essentially Nazi organization mimics the country being led by a white nationalist, but I agree that a mainstream superhero crossover probably wasn't the place for it. I still think there's a lot of hindsight bias here though; obviously they didn't plan this after Charlottesville, or even Trump's election, and probably wouldn't have done so. That doesn't mean it was a good idea, but it wasn't at the time as monumentally stupid as it appears today.Rhyno posted:Actual real world Nazis are trying to adopt Cap as a symbol of their movement and get turbo pissed if you tell them he was created by a Jewish man. White supremacists loved American History X too. These people are morons.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:40
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I wasn't opposed with the idea of Cap being mind controlled to be Hydra on principle(this sort of thing has happened before), but once I realized they were going to make into this whole thing I was saying this was ill-advised well before Trump got elected, and I wasn't the only one. And the dipshits at Marvel kept hiding behind "just wait and judge the story on the merits", like morons always do. It's the same spiel the imbeciles making that "Confederates won the civil war" show for HBO are spouting. Just a bunch of sheltered morons who think they can say something deep with controversial subject matter but at the same time refuse to acknowledge the idea that art can have social consequences.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:48
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And that they're running this event during the centennial of Jack "I'ma personally kick the everfucking poo poo out of any Nazi I come across" Kirby is especially galling.
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Aug 27, 2017 05:13
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howe_sam posted:And that they're running this event during the centennial of Jack "I'ma personally kick the everfucking poo poo out of any Nazi I come across" Kirby is especially galling.  Jack "I'll be right down" Kirby
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Aug 27, 2017 07:36
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Nick Spencer's Captain America issue with the protest at the university was the worst thing I've ever read and I read Brigade and Bloodstrike.
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Aug 27, 2017 09:26
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I thought "Consider this your trigger warning!" was a funny line.
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Aug 27, 2017 15:24
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Kirby was known to exaggerate his war stories though.
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Aug 27, 2017 21:13
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Just like he exaggerated his role in creating absolutely everything he worked on with Stan Lee by himself (which Stan Lee was also guilty of doing).
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Aug 27, 2017 21:16
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Aphrodite posted:Kirby was known to exaggerate his war stories though. So maybe he only killed 3 Nazis.
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Aug 27, 2017 22:24
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Aphrodite posted:Kirby was known to exaggerate his war stories though. Unless you're saying that he exaggerated the fact that he hated Nazis, I don't think that's really relevant to the context of why that response was made in this thread. 
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Aug 27, 2017 22:53
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 (I'll take any excuse to post that)
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Aug 27, 2017 22:58
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Rhyno posted:Actual real world Nazis are trying to adopt Cap as a symbol of their movement and get turbo pissed if you tell them he was created by a Jewish man. Two Jewish men.
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Aug 28, 2017 11:58
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I heard Captain America is now a Nazi? Is this actually true? Wheat Loaf posted:I thought "Consider this your trigger warning!" was a funny line. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 14:54
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irlZaphod posted:It's about as funny as that Ultimates line which everyone seems to like. The only good thing about that line was the piss-take in Nextwave.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:25
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DigitalRaven posted:The only good thing about that line was the piss-take in Nextwave. And a pisstake in Ultimates 2 that came out this month that I enjoyed.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:54
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KaosMachina posted:And a pisstake in Ultimates 2 that came out this month that I enjoyed. Ewing made Next Wave Marvel canon.
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Aug 29, 2017 09:01
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Skwirl posted:Ewing made Next Wave Marvel canon. Did he do that before or after The Captain showed up in Nova?
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Aug 29, 2017 09:48
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Brian Reed use the NW version of Machine Man in his Math Marvel run for like two years and Hudlin used the NW version of Monica in his BP run. Elsa Bloodstone popped up in a bunch of places and Boom Boom's ditsyness and design carried over the X-Force as well.
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Aug 29, 2017 12:59
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Mark Millar licks goats.
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Aug 29, 2017 13:11
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prefect posted:Mark Millar licks goats.
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Aug 29, 2017 13:19
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Did he do that before or after The Captain showed up in Nova? Before.
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Aug 29, 2017 14:40
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Nextwave was declared non-canonical as soon as it came out, but the problem rapidly became that all of Marvel's writers had loved it just as much as all of the fans did, and they just flat ignored editorial and put the Nextwave versions of those characters into their comics and referenced it like it'd happened. So you ended up with a rebellion from the ground up that eventually ended when editorial went "okay fine, HATE captured those five and put them in a weird simulator they escaped from, now you can use Nextwave stuff and we don't have to deal with the weird continuity that'd exist if any of that stuff actually happened".
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Aug 29, 2017 16:51
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Did he do that before or after The Captain showed up in Nova? Before, the second to last arc of his Mighty Avengers was about The Beyond corporation. Monica Rambeau got her dreads and jacket back.
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Aug 29, 2017 16:57
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I prefer the explanation that it happened but everyone involved was on a lot of drugs at the time
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Aug 29, 2017 17:05
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Mover posted:I prefer the explanation that it happened but everyone involved was on a lot of drugs at the time And since Civil War was around the same time (MARK MILLAR LICKS GOATS), I always just headcanoned it that Iron Man drafted them into the Initiative and did not let them keep HATE's helicarrier.
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Aug 30, 2017 02:24
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Is/was there really any meaningful impact to Nextwave being canon/writers acknowledging it exists outside of people writing Machine Man as Bender? That only stuck about half of the time that he showed up, and I don't really remember Boom Boom being particularly "Nextwavey" outside of I guess talking too much or having some sort of "wacky" trait adjacent to her Nextwave character in... X-Force(?) a few years ago? And then Al Ewing, lover of marginalia, folding it into continuity in a way in his Avengers books, which also have brought back concepts like Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, Psi-Force, Blue Marvel, and a bunch of other mostly forgotten characters and concepts. It's been a decade, I'm not really sure that even if somehow a ground-up rebellion of writers just flat out telling their editors to go gently caress themselves, they're DEFINITELY going to have Machine Man be mean in Marvel Zombies 3. The editors swear up and down there is no way they can ever acknowledge NEXTWAVE, THE COMIC THAT MUST NOT BE REFERENCED, but they still defiantly write him as Bender. Marvel editorial is so enraged they greenlight more Marvel Zombies mini-series and the battle rages on in silence until an issue of Mighty Avengers four years later. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 13:32
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Fin Fang Foom's pants are a serious issue.
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Aug 30, 2017 13:36
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Edge & Christian posted:Is/was there really any meaningful impact to Nextwave being canon/writers acknowledging it exists outside of people writing Machine Man as Bender? That only stuck about half of the time that he showed up, and I don't really remember Boom Boom being particularly "Nextwavey" outside of I guess talking too much or having some sort of "wacky" trait adjacent to her Nextwave character in... X-Force(?) a few years ago? And then Al Ewing, lover of marginalia, folding it into continuity in a way in his Avengers books, which also have brought back concepts like Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, Psi-Force, Blue Marvel, and a bunch of other mostly forgotten characters and concepts. Psi-Force is back? That and Star Brand were my favorite New Universe books.
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Aug 30, 2017 13:36
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prefect posted:Psi-Force is back? That and Star Brand were my favorite New Universe books. This right here tells me you never read D.P. 7, which is a crime
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Aug 30, 2017 13:49
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Aphrodite posted:Fin Fang Foom's pants are a serious issue. prefect posted:Psi-Force is back? That and Star Brand were my favorite New Universe books.
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Aug 30, 2017 14:16
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Pastry of the Year posted:This right here tells me you never read D.P. 7, which is a crime I also never read Kickers, Inc.
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Aug 30, 2017 14:20
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Edge & Christian posted:Is/was there really any meaningful impact to Nextwave being canon/writers acknowledging it exists outside of people writing Machine Man as Bender? That only stuck about half of the time that he showed up, and I don't really remember Boom Boom being particularly "Nextwavey" outside of I guess talking too much or having some sort of "wacky" trait adjacent to her Nextwave character in... X-Force(?) a few years ago? And then Al Ewing, lover of marginalia, folding it into continuity in a way in his Avengers books, which also have brought back concepts like Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, Psi-Force, Blue Marvel, and a bunch of other mostly forgotten characters and concepts. My girlfriend read this post over my shoulder this morning and thought she was having a stroke
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Aug 30, 2017 14:25
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purple death ray posted:My girlfriend read this post over my shoulder this morning and thought she was having a stroke
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Aug 30, 2017 14:36
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