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Deadulus posted:News report was saying the water is currently 2 feet from the top of the levee now. Also that the water is rising at 4 inches per hour even with controlled release. If it is topped without failure that pretty much means it will continue to hold, right? It should still be better than if it just broke?
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Aug 28, 2017 16:21
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FourLeaf posted:They're definitely dangerously high but neither is only 2 feet from the top as of now. Oh, that's because the spillway isn't the same as the levee. I'll try to find a map.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:22
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Al Borland Corp. posted:If it is topped without failure that pretty much means it will continue to hold, right? It should still be better than if it just broke? no. once it starts going in a way it wasn't designed to it won't stop.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:22
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Al Borland Corp. posted:If it is topped without failure that pretty much means it will continue to hold, right? It should still be better than if it just broke? If it overtops it's extremely likely to break.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:22
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Al Borland Corp. posted:If it is topped without failure that pretty much means it will continue to hold, right? It should still be better than if it just broke? Depends. I don't know how it is constructed by I would assume if it is topped it will start eroding the earthen walls like a saw chewing its way down.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:24
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WrenP-Complete posted:If it overtops it's extremely likely to break. How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. Edit: oh, the non man-made parts would fail, and the levee is attached to those, ok I get it.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:24
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WrenP-Complete posted:Oh that's because the spillway isn't the same as the levee. Ah, OK. Is there a place to get real-time information about the levee? e: oh you edited
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Aug 28, 2017 16:25
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. erosion, if it overflows the levee it's going to start eating away at it and making failure more likely
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Aug 28, 2017 16:25
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. Like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRGTkCv3sU
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Aug 28, 2017 16:25
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. Imagine a levee as a board with a bunch of dirt propping it up on one side. If you pour water on one side then it's fine, it will just sit there. But if you pour it on the other side the dirt will start washing away and the board falls over.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:26
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. Water flow over the top erodes the structure of the dam increasing water flow over the top and allowing more structure to be eroded. Worst case scenario is it effectively chews through the earth like a buzz saw causing a catastrophic failure.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:27
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. If it goes over, the water flowing over can dig in to the ground BEHIND the wall, weakening the integrity of the wall.Once it goes over, it is a matter of time before it gouges a rut and causes the wall to fail.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:27
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Al Borland Corp. posted:If it is topped without failure that pretty much means it will continue to hold, right? It should still be better than if it just broke? Overtopping is what will cause the breach, assuming there aren't structural deficiencies that cause it to fail first.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:27
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Al Borland Corp. posted:How does that work? I would figure at that point it is taking the maximum amount of weight on one side it can, and the stuff going over would shore up the other side. The levee is an earthen mound with a thin strip of concrete on top. Once flood waters start to flow over it they will erode the backside, and that erosion will quickly cause the (inevitable once it starts happening) failure of the levee. Also sorry all about misniforming you about the risk of the levee collapsing just from the pressure against it. As has been mentioned by several other goons I was in error.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:27
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Deadulus posted:Depends. I don't know how it is constructed by I would assume if it is topped it will start eroding the earthen walls like a saw chewing its way down. This. Water overtopping carries a little bit of earth with it as it goes, lowering the rim, which allows more and faster-flowing water over, which carries more earth, etc etc and now you have no more dam. Also all the stuff sloughing off the backside washes away, meaning a third of the mass holding back the water just got washed downstream. If there's any flow at all over the top it's very very bad.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:28
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FourLeaf posted:Ah, OK. Is there a place to get real-time information about the levee? Yeah, its slightly confusing because levees in colloquial speech can mean the sides of the embankments also, and I think also like "neighborhoods affected by levees" are also called levees. If you look at those harris county links, you can see "Key Elevation" markers at the top. Addicks at 103.58' and 103.8 is the next key elevation: Low Point of Barker Cypress Rd. I'll see if I can find a map that shows a bigger picture of what's going on. Here's current water channel status, to start with: (red is overflowing, yellow is at danger of overflowing) 
WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 16:28
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This guy is a local meterologist with the Harris County Flood Control District. https://twitter.com/JeffLindner1/status/902185372368678912 A nearby creek is (just about to start) flooding directly into the Addicks reservoir.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:31
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Prester Jane posted:This guy is a local meterologist with the Harris County Flood Control District. Addicks gate is OPEN in response, fyi.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:34
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Concrete armoring is unusual on levees IME.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:34
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WrenP-Complete posted:Addicks gate is OPEN in response, fyi. It's been open since midnight, and the water has kept rising...
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Aug 28, 2017 16:36
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Prester Jane posted:This guy is a local meterologist with the Harris County Flood Control District. To explain this in more detail. Cyprus creek does not flow into the reservoir, it skirts the north of the city then connects with the San Jacinto river which flows through Lake Houston and into the bay. However upper portion of the creek are near the watershed that flows into Addicks reservoir, and since the creek is flooding so much, extra water is flowing into the Reservoir from areas that wouldn't normally contribute.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:36
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donoteat posted:It's been open since midnight, and the water has kept rising... Huh, it was reading as closed on the website? Maybe something didn't update correctly on my end.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:37
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KillHour posted:This is bad. Is it going to be "levee breaks in New Orleans" level of bad?
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Aug 28, 2017 16:37
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donoteat posted:It's been open since midnight, and the water has kept rising... I don't think it is fully open yet. The Houston OEM did a press conference talking about how they were going to increase the water release and warning people that the buffalo bayou area was going to have even more rising water. But that may be the other Reservoir and not Addicks. Is Barker and Addicks to separate reservoirs or a single one? Raccooon fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 16:37
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If any levee fails then that's a full-on Katrina-level total destruction of a large swathe of Houston, right? 
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Aug 28, 2017 16:38
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Deadulus posted:I don't think it is fully open yet. The Houston OEM did a press conference talking about how they were going to increase the water release and warning people that the buffalo bayou area was going to have even more rising water. Barker and Addicks are have their gates open as of just after midnight per https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail/Index/2010?view=full And https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail/Index/2110?view=full
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Aug 28, 2017 16:40
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Deadulus posted:I don't think it is fully open yet. The Houston OEM did a press conference talking about how they were going to increase the water release and warning people that the buffalo bayou area was going to have even more rising water. This is correct from my information. Also I believe the water being within two feet of the top of the levee also refers to cyprus creek. https://twitter.com/JeffLindner1/status/902167149292204032 Oddly enough if this levee collapses it could be good news for Addicks as the upstream water will be able to flow into a new area down stream instead of moving into the Addicks basin.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:40
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farraday posted:This is correct from my information. Should the army corps of engineers calculate that risk and maybe blow the thing?
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Aug 28, 2017 16:42
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Deadulus posted:I don't think it is fully open yet. The Houston OEM did a press conference talking about how they were going to increase the water release and warning people that the buffalo bayou area was going to have even more rising water. They are two separate (but parallel) reservoirs. A failure at either one is very bad. Like "high rise buildings in downtown Houston potentially knocked over" bad.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:42
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Trabisnikof posted:Barker and Addicks are have their gates open as of just after midnight per I meant that the flood gates weren't opened to full yet, only a partial opening. The press conference was saying they would be slowly increasing the release and to expect the water in Buffalo Bayou to rise.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:42
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Should the army corps of engineers calculate that risk and maybe blow the thing? that didn't go well in NoLA
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Aug 28, 2017 16:44
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farraday posted:This is correct from my information. Unfortunately, it would basically flood a third of houston It won't be like a huge wave out of a movie, just an insane loving flash flood
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Aug 28, 2017 16:44
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Your Taint posted:Is it going to be "levee breaks in New Orleans" level of bad? Almost certainly yes.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:45
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Should the army corps of engineers calculate that risk and maybe blow the thing? That would be basically the exact same thing as letting it fail on its own, and since the flood path of it hasn't been fully evacuated, it would probably be better to let it buy the Extra time and let it wreck itself
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Aug 28, 2017 16:45
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Conroe dam is also doing a water release. More evacuations announced. Updating the resource list.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:46
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Just an fyi but the Twitter api will display the previous tweet in addition to the current when they're all linked together, so you can cut this down by half. Linked images/articles won't show up though unless it's the current tweet.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:46
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Should the army corps of engineers calculate that risk and maybe blow the thing? Not nearly an expert but probably not. While Cyprus creek is overflowing into the Addicks watershed, the majority of the watershed is still going to cyprus creek. Unless the watershed itself shifts (like a new channel is created) the overflow is relatively minor compared to the amount coming in from Addicks watershed. Edit:  So brown here is the creek watershed and green heads into the reservoir, so you can see how overflow works, but unless the channel shifts to flow directly into the reservoir instead of to the east it's only a minor issue compared to the size of the watersheds. farraday fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 16:46
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Deadulus posted:I meant that the flood gates weren't opened to full yet, only a partial opening. The press conference was saying they would be slowly increasing the release and to expect the water in Buffalo Bayou to rise. I'm not sure what full capacity is but they said they would be up to 4,000cfs from each by this morning http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Media/News-Releases/Article/1291369/corps-releases-at-addicks-and-barker-dams-to-begin/
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Aug 28, 2017 16:46
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This is from a few pages back, but I don't expect any long-term ecological disaster when all of the nasty floodwater makes it into the Gulf. There will be local/regional impacts for months to a year or so but most of the nasty poo poo will get diluted and mixed into the larger Gulf. I would expect some less-soluble toxic stuff like PAHs (from petroleum industry), lead, cadmium in sediments to be elevated for up to a few decades, so maybe limit your consumption of locally-fished shrimp, molluscs, and bottom-feeding fishes. edit: oh also, the UT marine science institute in Port Aransas got severely damaged during the landfall, but thankfully no casualties and from facebook it sounds like they managed to save most/all of their samples in storage. Which is a pretty big deal. https://news.utexas.edu/2017/08/27/...=UTAustinSocial Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 16:49
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Information post updated.
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