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Aston posted:You might have more fun looking into Old School/94 as a format. L0cke17 posted:Icy Manipulator is actually good in that format. sounds like my kind of party. out of curiosity, what is the main issue with Icy in current formats? the casting cost seems maybe like it's too high to play early? i figure it would be good for preventing creature attacks but that's all i got. thanks!
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Aug 18, 2017 18:42
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Halo posted:sounds like my kind of party. out of curiosity, what is the main issue with Icy in current formats? the casting cost seems maybe like it's too high to play early? i figure it would be good for preventing creature attacks but that's all i got. thanks! In Legacy: by the time you cast an icy manipulator you have lost the game In Modern: By the time you cast an icy manipulator you have lost the game.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:50
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Icy Manipulator might be a fair card in Standard, but it probably would be too slow. e: Pacification Array doesn't get played. Deadlock Trap doesn't get played. Blinding Drone doesn't get played. Fan Bearer doesn't make it into BW Zombies. Janeet Sentry is awful. Niblis of Frost doesn't get played in UW Monument. Binding Mummy does get played in BW Zombies. Topplegeist isn't played in UW Monument. Conclusion: Icy Manipulator would be too slow for Standard too. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 19:21
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Mezzanon posted:In Legacy: by the time you cast an icy manipulator you have lost the game Basically. To be more specific, you're trying to resolve a 4 mana, non-creature spell that instead of winning you the game like it should, eats up even more of your mana every turn and is a mild annoyance at most to the other player. Basically if Icy resolves and is actually good, you were going to win the game with pretty much anything. TheDemon posted:Icy Manipulator might be a fair card in Standard, but it probably would be too slow. It taps Gideon 
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Aug 18, 2017 19:22
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suicidesteve posted:It taps Gideon So does Pacification Array, which is one mana and can be online before Gideon hits the board.
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Aug 18, 2017 19:28
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pretty sick anti-winter orb tech for lands
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Aug 18, 2017 19:29
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:pretty sick anti-winter orb tech for lands Tap their Blood Moon EOT to turn it off.
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Aug 18, 2017 19:34
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Halo posted:sounds like my kind of party. out of curiosity, what is the main issue with Icy in current formats? the casting cost seems maybe like it's too high to play early? i figure it would be good for preventing creature attacks but that's all i got. thanks! Icy Manipulator is from a time in Magic that they just made cards without a care in the world if they were good or bad. The good stuff ended up being mostly spells and artifacts that accelerate mana for the price of zero or one mana. There may be a ton of creatures from ABU that became archetypes for things down the road, but Serra Angel's dominion is in limited. I'd be more excited to have a Beta Birds of Paradise or Lord of Atlantis than a Beta Serra Angel. If you want an effect that's evocative of Icy Manipulator, I would recommend Ajani Vengeant.
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Aug 18, 2017 19:51
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Anyone tried a death cloud deck? I realized I have probably everything except the clouds and it sounds fun for weeklies. This Japanese abzan cloud deck looks fun: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16544&d=302330&f=MO
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Aug 20, 2017 03:22
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Anyone tried a death cloud deck? I realized I have probably everything except the clouds and it sounds fun for weeklies. This Japanese abzan cloud deck looks fun: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16544&d=302330&f=MO I've played them before. They're not very consistent and I don't think amonkhet added anything major
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Aug 20, 2017 18:50
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Anyone tried a death cloud deck? I realized I have probably everything except the clouds and it sounds fun for weeklies. This Japanese abzan cloud deck looks fun: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16544&d=302330&f=MO I've not played the deck but when I've seen lists in this past they've run Sakura Tribe Elder for ramp (Utopia Sprawl kind of takes care of that niche) and Thragtusk for lifegain and to leave a body in play post-Cloud. Also while Lingering Souls is generally a pretty good card, I'm not sure how much I like it in a deck where the key card says "sacrifice X creatures". The way that I've understood the deck is that you're trying to make your Death Clouds as asymmetric as possible, hence things like the high number of planeswalkers in the deck. But the cost of splashing white isn't too high, and being able to pitch it to Cloud and flash it back seems nice, so maybe it's actually good.
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Aug 21, 2017 02:13
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C-Euro posted:I've not played the deck but when I've seen lists in this past they've run Sakura Tribe Elder for ramp (Utopia Sprawl kind of takes care of that niche) and Thragtusk for lifegain and to leave a body in play post-Cloud. If you play Lingering Souls defensively, it encourages your opponent to go wide, which plays into your death cloud. You also don't feel too bad about playing a smallpox with tokens on the board since that's only like 1/4 of a card you lose.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:34
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Playing Bant Spirits at a 3K this Saturday. Have been testing extensively against Grixis DS, Eldrazi Tron, and Mono white Hate, feel decent about most of my matchups. Feel fine against living end, jund, regular tron, scapeshift/titanshift, affinity, bant eldrazi, and eldrazi taxes, and woe be to any control deck that tries to play against this deck. I think eldrazi tron is the deck I am most worried about out of the top decks.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:25
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So if I have Norin Sisters (foundries, caverns, g/w fetches, blood moon) there an amusing second deck I can build towards that isn't burn, Naya Zoo, or R/W prison? (I ain't buying chalices) Bonus points for colossal slightly effective gimmicks
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Aug 23, 2017 13:11
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Archenteron posted:So if I have Norin Sisters (foundries, caverns, g/w fetches, blood moon) there an amusing second deck I can build towards that isn't burn, Naya Zoo, or R/W prison? (I ain't buying chalices) I think there are some Knight of the Reliquary decks that use a Naya build rather than Bant.
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Aug 23, 2017 15:28
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Archenteron posted:So if I have Norin Sisters (foundries, caverns, g/w fetches, blood moon) there an amusing second deck I can build towards that isn't burn, Naya Zoo, or R/W prison? (I ain't buying chalices) wait til Ixalan comes out and build 5c slivers
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Aug 23, 2017 16:15
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Hey whoever was looking for cheap Legacy decks to share at their LGS, Goldfish posted a deck tech for a Mono-red Storm list. No idea if it's any good but $300 seems pretty reasonable for Legacy. On a more general note, I always feel a little weird when I see Legacy Storm lists like this with no actual wincon in their main deck. Yeah I know they're in the SB and wishboards are dope and all, but it just always feels a little off (cue the LSV story about him top-8ing with a wincon-less Storm deck)
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Aug 24, 2017 05:12
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i'm the skaab clan berserkers in the sideboard e: and yes they should 100% have a second of at least one of their win conditions in the sideboard to bring in since thoughtseize/cabal therapy into extraction is very popular these days Johnny Five-Jaces fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 05:21
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C-Euro posted:Hey whoever was looking for cheap Legacy decks to share at their LGS, Goldfish posted a deck tech for a Mono-red Storm list. No idea if it's any good but $300 seems pretty reasonable for Legacy. I lost to it with Lands yesterday. My friend put a Pillage in the board to beat Glacial Chasm and went off on turn two twice and turn three the other game.
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Aug 24, 2017 20:55
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That list's been floating around The Source for a little while now. It seems neat, if not as powerful as other storm lists. Some people have actually been dropping the Hazoret's Undying Fury all together.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:05
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Tournament report from yesterday's modern 3K: R1 vs Classic Jund win die roll win 2-0 G1: Opponent drops a Bob and a Scooze, we trade hits until he drops an Olivia Voldaren (!!!!!) I swing past Olivia and drop my opponent to 5. He untaps (with 6 mana) and attempts to ping my selfless spirit so I sac it in response, in response to that he attempts to ping my mausoleum wanderer, so I flash in rattlechains, giving wanderer +1+1 and giving rattlechains hexproof. He attempts to ping rattlechains in response to the hexproof trigger, so I flash in a Drogskol captain, opponent passes. I swing and opponent is fornced to block with olivia, and then dies on my next swing. G2: Opponent makes what I think is a huge misplay here. Opponent goes Fetch -> shock -> inquisition and sees my hand of 2x land, hierarch, wanderer, CoCo, Drogskol Captain, rattlechains. Opponent takes Mausoleum wanderer. I shrug and play the hierarch (assuming its going to eat a removal spell) opponent plays a land and bolts the hierarch and passes. I draw a geist of st traft, and pass the turn. Opponent plays a tap land and scooze and passes, I rattlechains on his end step. I play land number 3, swing for 2 with chains, and pass the turn. Opponent untaps, swings with ooze, and then taps out for a LOtV, it resolves, and he uses her edict ability. In response, I flash in a Geist of St Traft and sacrifice rattlechains (opponent does not play land 4). I untap, play my land 4, swing 2 at Lily and 4 at opponent. Opponent goes into the tank and then leads with an Anger of the Gods. I consider CoCo'ing in response, but if I whiff then I essentially get 1 for 4'd, which is bad. so I let him have the 1 for 1 with the geist and then CoCo on end step (which is was 100% the right play) Then I untap, cast the captain that had been in my hand since T1 and swing for lethal. R2 vs R/G Burn (????????) Lose the Die Roll Lose 1-2 G1: I have mausoleum wanderer's and a geist of St traft to put a bow on the game very quickly. I'm very confused because my opponent main deck skullcracks me (??) and also Magma jets me (???????????) Board in: Rhox War Monk, Blessed Alliance Board out: 2 phantasmal 2 path G2: My opponent does nothing until he drops a shrine of burning rage (!) (no spell queller for that) and I follow with a rhox war monk after that. What follows is 3 turns of me swinging with the war monk, and three consecutive skullcracks, followed by one swing with the war monk where my opponent blocks with a swiftspear and then bolts his own swiftspear before damage to prevent me from gaining life. Then he cracked the shrine and domed me for 9 (lethal) Board in: 2 qasali pridemage board out: 2 rattlechains. G3: I keep a hand of 2 land, mausoleum wanderer, qasali pridemage, blessed alliance, geist, rhox war monk. Too bad I never see a third land. This made me feel very bad. R3 vs Abzan Classic Lose Die Roll Win 2-0 G1: My opponent has T1 hierarch, T2 goyf, T3 lingering souls. I have T1 Hierarch, T2 Geist, T3 CoCo. Plus a path for goyf. Opponent chumps with spirit tokens and dies. Side out: Phantasmal images Side in: rest in peace G2: My opponent plays the discard game to start off with, and eventually we get to a point where he casts LotV while I have a rattlechains out and 3 mana up. Similar to the Jund matchup earlier he edicts with Lily, but this time I flash in a drogskol captain, untap swing into lily, play a second drogskol captain, pass the turn, take a swing from my opponent, and then play a third drogskol captain. I topdecked two of those three captains back to back. Get lucky play adequately. R4 vs Baral Storm lose the die roll Win 2-1 G1: Opponent and I make small talk as he leads off with a Polluted Delta->Steam Vents->Serum Visions. He says his previous loss was to Grixis Deaths shadow, in response to his opening play I respond with "oh lost to the mirror eh?" Opponent laughs and passes. I open with Razorverge Thicket into Noble, and my opponent goes "Bant eldrazi? Is that even still a deck?" I reply with "I think it's a good deck" as I pass the turn. Opponent plays a fetch, but doesn't crack it casts a sleight of hand, and passes the turn. I play a botanical sanctum and pass, opponent cracks fetch at end step, untaps, and tries to cast a Baral. I immediately Spell Queller Baral and my opponent just says "oh poo poo" I start chipping in, while building a board presence. My opponent eventually gets to 4 land and plays a gifts ungiven. I coco in response but don't get queller or wanderer or Phantasmal image) Gifts resolves choosing 2 rituals, grapeshot, and past in flames. I gravyard grapeshot and past in flames and let him have the two rituals (not sure if this is right, but it seemed to be the most mana intensive way to go at the time, but now I think ritual and grapeshot in the yard and leave ritual past in flames in the hand might be better) Opponent tries to storm off but can only get the storm count to 10 and I am at 15 so he scoops it up. Board out: 4 path, 1 selfless spirit board in: 2x meddling mage, runed halo 2x rest in peace The deck runs only grapeshot G1 with empty the warrens game 2 and lightning bolts from the board. G2: Opponent gets a Baral an electromancer on his board. I lose this game but Mausoleum Wanderer is an all star card and taxes him for 3 turns while I search for either a cavern or a rest in peace, or anything. I don't find any but eventually die. I see zero sideboard cards. G3: I mull to 6 but keep the hand with the T2 geist of st traft. Hand also contains a mausoleum wanderer, selfless spirit, and coco. I start the geist clock and put the wanderer and selfless spirit on the board as well. Opponent drops an electromancer but still has two lands while at ten life. He goes to start something and he taps a red for a ritual leaving an island up, I sac the wanderer to counter the ritual and my opponent pays for it with the island. Opponent storms out and makes a pile of mana then realizes that he has no blue mana and no manamorphose, so he settles for bolting my Noble (which I think is a possible misplay) I think he was trying to get me to bait out saccing the spirit to save the noble since I'd been attacking with exalted triggers a lot, or he assumed that I had a CoCo in hand and only 3 land in play and this would buy him the turn he needed. Opponent passes over to me, and I rip a land off the top, play it, and move to combat. Opponent is at ten life, I swing for 8 (geist + selfless spirit). Opponent decides not to block geist with his electromancer. I CoCo, my opponent looks me dead in the eyes and goes "show me the captain" as I count out the 6 cards. I show him two captains. That was an incredible match of magic. R5 vs Naya Splashing Black Evolution Win the Die roll Win 2-0 G1: I have no idea what's going on for the first few turns of this matchup. I throw a T2 geist down and my opponent plays a wall of omens on his T2. T3 I play a second Noble, a land, swing for 8 with geist, and pass. Opponent untaps and tries to Eldritch evolution his Wall of omens, which I spell queller (that's got to feel bad) and we move to game 2. I don't think I made any changes to my deck. G2: I go mausoleum wanderer into rattlechains and on my opponents T4 he casts an Orzhov Pontiff to try and wipe my board of Rattlechains and mausoleum wanderer. In response I flash in a Geist of St Traft so that the wanderer survives off the pump (rattlechains and my noble die). I start swinging with geist. Next turn I go to CoCo on my opponents end step and in response he taps all of his land and all of his creatures and says "Chord for 5?" I go "Sac Mausoleum Wanderer to counter unless you pay 1" And opponent scoops em up. Lost to the onboard force spike, shameful. R6 vs Grixis Deaths shadow (piloted by a known Alberta high level player, Curly) I can't remember who won the die roll, I think me? Win 2-0 G1: All my creatures fly and he doesn't have a discard heavy hand. Also I windmill slam a Kira on T3 so that helps. Side in: 2x rest in peace, 2x blessed alliance, 1x runed halo. Side out: geists and Phantasmal images. (geists out on the draw, geists in on the play was my reasoning) G2: my opponent starts with fetch pass, so I play fetch pass. Opponent follows up with another fetch, considers passing the turn, but instead double cracks, double shocks, and plays a young pyromancer, I respond with fetch shock path to exile. I untap and slam a rest in peace, and we both play this super long attrition game where my opponent doest let his life get low enough to cast deaths shadows, but is removing anything I play. he eventually lands a Lily the last hope and starts plussing with no targets. I CoCo and swing her down for a bit until my creatures eat removal spells. I eventually successfully CoCo again and hit Kira and Selfless Spirit. I eventually kill new lily after several turns, and start attacking my opponents life total. I draw back to back spell quellers for my opponents hand full of removal spells, and win out. in that match I learned that you can target a creature that can't be killed with fatal push, just to get rid of the kira trigger. R7 vs 5 color collected humans Lose the die roll Lose 1-2 G1: Oh great I'm paired up against a one of the guys Who convoyed up with us. This match can go either way. But my opponent windmill slams the T2 Meddling mage naming Drogskol captain with strands two of them in my hand. It's the lack of respect that hurts the most. I phantasmal Image copying meddling mage naming thalia's lieutenant, so he reflector mages my phantasmal image. I am fully wrecked. G2: I have a T2 Geist and my opponent stumbles on mana. G3: I try to keep pressure on and we both hit CoCo's My rhox War Monks get reflector mage'd and I see no lords, and he sees thalia's lieutenants and both Thalia's. Upside is he went on to top 8, losing to the guy who won it all (on U/W Control) R8 vs Jeskai Control Win the Die Roll Win 2-0 G1: We play draw go for a while because I have a relatively slow hand and I don't want to tip off what I'm playing too early. I know this is a little risky, but I also assume that he has lots of removal. I eat an electrolyze and a lightning helix and then build a board that my opponent Path, path, snapcaster, paths. This puts me at 7 mana which lets me CoCo with Spell queller backup. We get into some weird tempo fights where my opponent resolves 4 Cryptic Commands, and I have two cryptic commands under spell quellers (one of which is a phantasmal image that CoCo'd into) Once I get to 8 mana, I CoCo hitting my second phantasmal image which comes in as a snapcaster mage targeting the Collected company in my graveyard which I then use when my opponent tries to Cryptic again. Eventually I win by pathing my opponents collonade when we're both in topdeck mode. Sideboard: Path to exile out Sideboard in: 2x meddling mage, 2x rest in peace G2: Cavern in opening hand, Cavern casting Kira feels dirty in this matchup. Meddling mage comes in naming Supreme Verdict (technically I should have named Cryptic Command) Either way opponent has nothing. So I went 6-2 for 21st place in a 204 person 3K. Bant Spirits can beat up on control and midrange decks all day. And there were a pile of control and midrange decks. Also Prismatic Omen scapeshift, and nobody was respecting primatic omen. Top 8 was: Sultai Deaths Shadow Bant Eldrazi Dredge U/W Control (winner) 5 color collected humans Scapeshift (2nd) (2 other decks I will remember later) Modern is cool and good. Mezzanon fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 27, 2017 |
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Aug 27, 2017 08:42
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B&R List update Thorn is restricted, Mentor is restricted, and Bargain is unrestricted
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Aug 28, 2017 15:47
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well now what the hell am i supposed to play
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Aug 28, 2017 16:04
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:well now what the hell am i supposed to play Managorger Hydra my friendo
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Aug 28, 2017 17:35
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So, Gideon Tribal? Without the janky token spells from the time saffronolive tried the deck. 3 Gideon of the Trials 4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 3 Gideon Jura 4 Dark Confidant 4 Lingering souls 4 Path to Exile 3 Fatal Push 2 Collective Brutality 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Thoughtseize 2 Wrath of God 4 Marsh Flats 2 Windswept Heath 4 Godless Shrine 3 Shambling Vent 1 Swamp 3 Plains 2 Ghost Quarter 3 Concealed Courtyard 1 Vault of the Archangel 1 Isolated Chapel Just a starting point. Seems pretty decent now aside from a tron matchup, having even two Gideons out seems like it would feel like a board lock. Tons of removal and discard to back up the strategy, lingering souls is always good... numbers probably need tweaking but i'm definitely going to test it.
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Aug 28, 2017 18:52
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Archenteron posted:Managorger Hydra my friendo i'd have to buy a green mox but those are basically free so that's not a big deal i dunno I'll probably just go with landstill
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Aug 28, 2017 19:27
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:i'd have to buy a green mox but those are basically free so that's not a big deal holy poo poo I thought you were being sarcastic they're like 22 bux on modo
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Aug 28, 2017 20:55
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Fingers McLongDong posted:So, Gideon Tribal? Without the janky token spells from the time saffronolive tried the deck. Make it pox and Tron seems an easier match.
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Aug 29, 2017 03:45
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Banning mentor made so much sense as soon as someone pointed out it's a better and more consistent play than tinker.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:25
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Just went 4-0 with Vizier Knightfall, a version of the Kyoto build. I played with spell quellers in the main and cut a chord, reflector mage and witness. I kind of agree they are weak in certain match up but it was a blow out against storm and dredge. I think I will cut two nobles and go to 2 and add the chord and reflector mage back. A quick trip report keeping in mind my sideboard was geared to combo since it's very heavy in my new meta Rd 1 UR Storm Lost game 1 to him storming out. Game 2 I was able to spell quellers his gifts and combo out turn 4 with Vizier into chord into duskwatch into walking ballista for a billion. Game 4 i side boarded in 2 mindbreaks and exiled his past in flames I gave to him on a gifts ungiven after he emptied his hand of rituals and he scooped. Rd 2 Dredge Game 1 he dredged like crazy and ran me over. Game 2 I went inifinite turn 3 and cast a scooze and just ate his graveyard continuously. Game 3 I scoozed turn 2 and did gy control until I could fully combo off stopping his conflagrate with a spell queller. Rd 3 Eldrazi Tron He ran me over game 1 with turn 2 and 3 TKS Game 2 he didn't expect a double Knight into exactsies fetching up a kessig in a fair game. Game 3 I dropped a T2 Knight and he dropped a turn 3 end bringer. Turn 3 retreat let me run him over for 27 as he didn't expect the combo. Rd 4 Affinity Game 1 he crushed me. Game 2 kataki controlled the board turn 2 with spell queller backup to stop the aether grid. Game 3 I was able to combo turn 3 with a forge tender saving my t2 druid. I had multiple turn 3 wins which shouldn't be a thing in modern but wheeeeeee!!!!
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Aug 29, 2017 06:55
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Just went 4-0 with Vizier Knightfall, a version of the Kyoto build. I played with spell quellers in the main and cut a chord, reflector mage and witness. I kind of agree they are weak in certain match up but it was a blow out against storm and dredge. Huh, you got run over every Game 1 and managed to pull out post-SB? That's interesting in itself.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:01
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Unless Conflagrate was for 1 or 0 you can't Spell Quell it.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:06
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suicidesteve posted:Unless Conflagrate was for 1 or 0 you can't Spell Quell it. You can when it's flashed back discarding 2 cards. Edit: weird our judge was wrong. Looking it up it seems each X discard counts as 2 X casting cost... Which is dumb as gently caress but whatever. I was the recipient of a bad judge call there. suicidesteve posted:Unless Conflagrate was for 1 or 0 you can't Spell Quell it. It was odd. It was a mixture of being on the draw and the play. It seems the basic deck is geared to crush fair decks but requires SB to tailor it to combo or aggro decks. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Aug 29, 2017 |
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Aug 29, 2017 07:13
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Conflagate is XXR so 1 card discarded is +2.
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Aug 29, 2017 14:16
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GoutPatrol posted:Make it pox and Tron seems an easier match. I thought about that and it's a pretty interesting idea. Change the mana to include flagstones and a fetid heath or two, change the Bobs to smallpox. Might be hard to always cast 5 mana Gideon though.
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Aug 29, 2017 14:18
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I thought about that and it's a pretty interesting idea. Change the mana to include flagstones and a fetid heath or two, change the Bobs to smallpox. Might be hard to always cast 5 mana Gideon though. I mean if you're poxing, don't you throw in mind stone? That or comedy answer Knight of the White Orchid
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Aug 29, 2017 14:58
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Archenteron posted:I mean if you're poxing, don't you throw in mind stone? That or comedy answer Knight of the White Orchid Knight of the White Orchid is not a joke and I will fight you to the death.
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Aug 29, 2017 15:04
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Archenteron posted:I mean if you're poxing, don't you throw in mind stone? That or comedy answer Knight of the White Orchid The more recent BW pox lists didn't have a mind stone I think. You usually don't want a single creature in the list unless it's recursive like bloodghast. Pox decks are the pinnacle of topdecking but having flagstones to keep you ahead is big game. Dropping a walker after stripping hands and lands is a good way to close out.
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Aug 29, 2017 15:06
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Star Man posted:Knight of the White Orchid is not a joke and I will fight you to the death. Sorry, comedy answer purely in the context of a pox deck. Sadbot would be better but is also 4 mana
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Aug 29, 2017 15:10
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suicidesteve posted:Conflagate is XXR so 1 card discarded is +2.
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Aug 29, 2017 15:42
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