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Arrow is really good if you like dumb fun superhero action and don't mind fast forwarding through the occasional CW teen romance bits.
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Aug 28, 2017 09:11
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I liked the Danny/Cage banter in that scene, but I hate the inconsistency with which Danny is able to Iron Fist stuff. He's tired to a chair for what feels like hours and is calm enough to converse, but he can't summon his chi because...?
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Aug 28, 2017 09:13
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Defenders was pretty good until about ep 5 or 6. Then it got bad and now I have no interest in anymore Netflix MCU
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Aug 28, 2017 09:45
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I liked the Danny/Cage banter in that scene, but I hate the inconsistency with which Danny is able to Iron Fist stuff. He's tired to a chair for what feels like hours and is calm enough to converse, but he can't summon his chi because...? Sometimes it's hard to perform under pressure 
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Aug 28, 2017 10:31
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I have to echo a lot of what others said and The Defenders is a real mixed bag. Some of the interaction between the 4 is great, some of the writing is utter garbage (and it really stands out because there's some good writing here), Danny is still utterly unlikable, I liked seeing all the B players coming together, and it peaked at the end of episode 3/beginning of 4. The whole story makes no sense, The Hand and Black Sky have changed completely between shows. They really needed someone overseeing all this if they were heading here from Day 1. I've not heard anyone talk about all the drat continuity mistakes. Alexandria standing in a doorway one shot, then being 3 feet in front of it the next. Alexandra alternating between grabbing Elektra's hair and holding her head. Go's disappearing and reappearing gloves. Blatant obvious mistakes. Really poor! I can definitely feel my enthusiasm waning for Marvel Netflix because they started so high. Let's really hope they can hire better writers and directors.
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Aug 28, 2017 10:32
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Alan_Shore posted:
A lot of people don't give a drat about stuff like that.
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Aug 28, 2017 10:37
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MiddleOne posted:Arrow is worse, trust me. Yeah, no. It has it's moments, granted. But it is broadcast TV. It has it's own set of rules it has to play by, like it or not. Netflix doesn't have that excuse.
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Aug 28, 2017 11:05
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Samizdata posted:Yeah, no. It has it's moments, granted. But it is broadcast TV. It has it's own set of rules it has to play by, like it or not. It's more that it has to play by CW rules that is the problem. Even broadcast tv can be better.
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Aug 28, 2017 13:58
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Alan_Shore posted:I've not heard anyone talk about all the drat continuity mistakes. Alexandria standing in a doorway one shot, then being 3 feet in front of it the next. Alexandra alternating between grabbing Elektra's hair and holding her head. Go's disappearing and reappearing gloves. Blatant obvious mistakes. Really poor! I can definitely feel my enthusiasm waning for Marvel Netflix because they started so high. Let's really hope they can hire better writers and directors. It really seems to be going the way that Marvel's TV productions are going to be done on the cheap. I mean I know the Netflix-verse or ABC shows were ever supposed to be major budget Game of Thrones level production. And I don't know if Daredevil, JJ, LC S1 all just did a better job of hiding it. But Iron Fist looks really cheap (particularly that Chinese warehouse scene in episode 9 with the drunken master) and Defenders, at times, looks even worse. The final cave fight really looks like they left the stage lights on the visible part of the set and just said gently caress it. I kind of wonder if the expense of shooting in NYC is really worth it if they're going to cheap out on fight choreography and editing.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:08
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Aren't they getting cushy tax breaks to film in NYC?Narcissus1916 posted:Someone mentioned that the fight coordinator from Daredevil's first season peaced out and left. Where did he go? Because I'll watch anything that man does, because holy good goddamn is that legit. He left Daredevil season 1 to work on Daredevil season 2. And then Blindspot The stunts for Defenders were credited a dude who was Agents of Shield's fight coordinator for two seasons and Charlie Cox's stunt double (who, if I remember correctly had a large hand in designing the first hallway fight).
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Aug 28, 2017 14:21
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It still costs a lot more to film in NYC than Vancouver even with credits.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:23
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Is there a reason more people don't shoot in Vancouver and then do one day of establishing NYC shots?
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Aug 28, 2017 14:28
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I really wish the entire show was just them eating chinese food and arguing with each other. That was probably the best part.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:57
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I think a core problem with this Iron Fist is that he is 0% amusing. They really blew their chance to give him some endearing fish-out-of-water qualities or any kind of sense of humor in his own series. Like, JJ can tell DD "You look like an idiot in that" and he can remind her that it's her scarf; Iron Fist has no banter at all. He spends so much time KO'd or imprisoned because he's not fun.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:26
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keeping Felicity on a pedestal and killing off Motherfucking Black Canary is a big part of what ruined Arrow. Oh and Guggenheim's continual self fellating. (for example making Felicity's codename the title of a book he wrote)
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Aug 28, 2017 15:34
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Killing Laurel was indeed a terrible idea, but a part of me admires their cheek for then introducing an actual metahuman Dinah Lance Black Canary last season.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:50
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Field Mousepad posted:Have you seen the fight scenes in Daredevil? If not loving watch Daredevil. Not only have I, but I'm probably going to go back and watch the first season again, and probably the first four of the second season too (if not the whole thing). Daredevil's fantastic (even if the second season is a bit of a mess). The Punisher stuff in the first four episodes of season two is some drat fine television and I'm not someone who usually has a lot of time for the Punisher as a character. I think Jessica Jones is more ambitious, though, and it achieves what it sets out to do in a really impressive way, so I rate it even higher. I just had more fun watching Cage, in the end, and I think it's largely down to the way the show uses music. I didn't actually hate Iron Fist and I'll probably go back to finish it out eventually but those first two episodes were just not very engaging and I had other poo poo to watch.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:51
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howe_sam posted:Aren't they getting cushy tax breaks to film in NYC? I don't know why Marvel just doesn't give a truck load of money to this guy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1160495/?ref_=tt_ov_dr) to direct more episodes. Some of the best fights in AOS has him as a director, and the one good fight in Iron Fist with Lewis Tan's character was directed by him as well. It doesn't look like he had any involvement in Defenders but he is set to direct one episode of Inhumans.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:59
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I don't watch these shows for the fights, I watch them for the conflicts.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:58
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notthegoatseguy posted:I don't know why Marvel just doesn't give a truck load of money to this guy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1160495/?ref_=tt_ov_dr) to direct more episodes. Some of the best fights in AOS has him as a director, and the one good fight in Iron Fist with Lewis Tan's character was directed by him as well. It doesn't look like he had any involvement in Defenders but he is set to direct one episode of Inhumans.
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Aug 28, 2017 17:26
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DrNutt posted:It's more that it has to play by CW rules that is the problem. Even broadcast tv can be better. There are dozens of reasons. Especially the 22 episode order every season, likely shot on a lower per-episode budget over a shorter period of time, on top of whatever considerations come with broadcast TV in general and the CW specifically. I'm pretty sure most things would suck under those conditions. I definitely believe that if the team behind Arrow was given a 13 episode order, for a non-broadcast platform, with the same time and budget parameters as the Defenders shows...they'd have turned around a better show than Iron Fist.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:36
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Xealot posted:There are dozens of reasons. Especially the 22 episode order every season, likely shot on a lower per-episode budget over a shorter period of time, on top of whatever considerations come with broadcast TV in general and the CW specifically. I'm pretty sure most things would suck under those conditions. I completely agree. Especially given a lead (Stephen Amell) who is buff AND can do some decent fight scenes and stunts.
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Aug 28, 2017 20:06
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moths posted:Is there a reason more people don't shoot in Vancouver and then do one day of establishing NYC shots? Marvel characters ***LIVE AND FIGHT IN AND PROTECT NEW YORK CITY NOT A FAKE BULLSHIT CITY LIKE METROPOLIS OR GOTHAM*** is definitely a thing among fans and the company, and is a huge part of many of the characters. So on the one hand I want to say obviously it's worth filming everything in NYC when that's such a core part of many of the characters. But in execution, I feel like Luke Cage and a few episodes of Daredevil were the only ones that would have suffered if they weren't filmed in NYC. Cage for all its faults did a great job weaving its locations into its characters and vice versa. Plus so much of the later stuff, there are like, there are so many awesome buildings throughout NYC that are very old but modernized in some ways on the inside but with historical elements left in, but we only see spaces like that very briefly. Like the most recurring interiors are super swank offices, dark warehouses, stuff they could get in any city or use a set for.
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Aug 28, 2017 22:52
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Xealot posted:I definitely believe that if the team behind Arrow was given a 13 episode order, for a non-broadcast platform, with the same time and budget parameters as the Defenders shows...they'd have turned around a better show than Iron Fist. This is probably true. Even the worst Arrow seasons could have had 13 episodes worth of solid material condensed and extracted out of them.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:20
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I've never seen Arrow but it seems like it'd be a pretty hard to gently caress up too bad so long as you stripped away a layer or two of the goofy. He's basically Batman and Daredevil with a dash of Punisher who's also really good with a bow, right? Just make him all silent assassin-ish, teach him to fight a little bit and establish his motives. Get Black Canary in there as the love interest and make her bad rear end too. Then again, I can't think of one single Green Arrow villain, iconic or otherwise, so maybe he's hard to write; but even that could be a bonus since the writers don't have to feel locked in to using specific characters and can just invent whatever they need to move the story.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:35
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BiggerBoat posted:I've never seen Arrow but it seems like it'd be a pretty hard to gently caress up too bad so long as you stripped away a layer or two of the goofy. He's basically Batman and Daredevil with a dash of Punisher who's also really good with a bow, right? Just make him all silent assassin-ish, teach him to fight a little bit and establish his motives. Get Black Canary in there as the love interest and make her bad rear end too. Good, good. But what if instead we made Black Canary just a lawyer for 2 seasons while her assassin sister is running around, then make her a drunk, then when she finally gets over all that and becomes a hero she gets killed? And instead Oliver falls in love with a bitchy, holier than thou geek girl hacker cliche?
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Aug 28, 2017 23:44
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Aphrodite posted:Good, good. That doesn't sound too good.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:58
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I mean just spend a day filming some establishing shots in NYC. Daredevil with the Statue of Liberty, Luke Cage going into the Chrysler Building. Jessica Jones scoffing at Times Square. Then you pepper them into your Vancouver shots, and nobody cares because most of the shows happen in warehouses or boardrooms anyway. I'm certain they could put that money to better use. I didn't watch Arrow, but Flash spent way too much energy encouraging Barry to hook up with his adopted sister. That was uncomfortable, to say the least.
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Aug 29, 2017 00:13
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Aphrodite posted:Good, good. She isn't so holier than thou any more.
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Aug 29, 2017 02:53
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isn't green arrow some sort of redistributive anarchist in the comics? robin hood ethics to go with the robin hood crimefighting approach? that seems like a pretty rich vein for tv stories in modern hell-america
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Aug 29, 2017 04:28
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zeal posted:isn't green arrow some sort of redistributive anarchist in the comics? robin hood ethics to go with the robin hood crimefighting approach? that seems like a pretty rich vein for tv stories in modern hell-america Yeah and that would have made for a better show than what we got.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:47
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The first season of Arrow dabbles a bit in the class war aspect of the character but they've been downplaying it since.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:50
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zeal posted:isn't green arrow some sort of redistributive anarchist in the comics? robin hood ethics to go with the robin hood crimefighting approach? that seems like a pretty rich vein for tv stories in modern hell-america He isn't now. He has been in the past.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:52
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I think Arrow is getting (deserved) flak for its third and especially fourth seasons, but its fifth season was one episode off from being a perfect game, an unprecedented improvement over its priors and far, far better than Iron Fist or Defenders.
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Aug 29, 2017 06:55
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The Black Sky was a mystery from the very start of the Netflix MCU, and it turns out the answer to that mystery is "They're people who have the capacity to be, like, really good at martial arts." Okay.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:07
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BrianWilly posted:But the hits are really impressive hits; I would actually consider that clip to be one of the more generic action scenes on the show and not one of the better ones. What do you think are Arrow's best fights? They've done so many over the years.
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Aug 29, 2017 08:16
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Dr Christmas posted:The Black Sky was a mystery from the very start of the Netflix MCU, and it turns out the answer to that mystery is "They're people who have the capacity to be, like, really good at martial arts." The ultimate weapon! That can barely hang with other martial artists.
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Aug 29, 2017 08:50
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Narcissus1916 posted:What do you think are Arrow's best fights? They've done so many over the years.
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Aug 29, 2017 10:49
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Field Mousepad posted:The ultimate weapon! That can barely hang with other martial artists. They played Elektra as though she at first learning to harness her powers and then later struggling with her past identity and thus holding herself back. We never really got a "Black Sky Unleashed" episode where she really tears things up. And that really weakens the villains side, since they just end up looking incompetent.
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Aug 29, 2017 13:32
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I half expected Black Sky to be basically a full-blown demonic possession. (Which could have gone a totally different direction, involving Matt's priest.) I didn't get how they were mad about her squandering "the substance" to resurrect Elektra. Hadn't they already used it on like a hundred worthless Hand ninjas? What's one more, especially if it'll gently caress with DD's head? And had they not already budgeted substance for Dark Sky when it was going to be that little kid in S1?
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Aug 29, 2017 14:38
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