Bad With Money 2018: When I die, bury me in the blockchain.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Bad With Money 2018: When I die, bury me in the blockchain.

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ohgodwhat: Aug 6, 2005

Yes there are jobs in Des moines that pay six figures. That doesn't mean everyone can get a six figure job in Des Moines who could get one in SF or NYC.

# ? Aug 29, 2017 23:45

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:06

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Not to mention two income households.

# ? Aug 29, 2017 23:47

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

ohgodwhat posted:

Yes there are jobs in Des moines that pay six figures. That doesn't mean everyone can get a six figure job in Des Moines who could get one in SF or NYC.

Nobody asserted that they could. The post was saying that there weren't six figure salaries adjacent to $300K homes, which is what several of us disagree with.

# ? Aug 29, 2017 23:55

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Subjunctive posted:

Plus doctors, lawyers, dentists, veterinarians, etc. Even in places with 100K people you're going to find people with six figure incomes.

Both of you have the same perception gap - the "Only buy a home for 3x your income max" advice is for everyone, but the people you're imagining having an easy time doing that are only a tiny minority. Median household income in the US is roughly $56k. How much house does that buy? Every small town is going to have a handful of rich people in it, but rich people have an easy time everywhere. We're not solving a problem unless it's solved for the average person. Housing is a necessity, not a luxury, and it's one our society is utterly failing to provide. Homes are priced so the average person couldn't hope to pay one off in a lifetime, and rental properties are rarely being built and when they are they're all targeted at rich people. "But but but this unicorn I just thought up could-" is useless. What ordinary people are saying is that they're forced to choose between living somewhere with jobs and living somewhere they can afford to own a home. And you know what those small towns you guys are always ordering everyone to live in don't have very much of? Apartments.

What's the society you guys are aiming for here? Doctors and richer get a roof over their heads and everybody else lives in the street? Is that your utopia?

Folly posted:

For reference, in my area a $300k house is more than 3000sqft on a half acre. The older the house, the bigger it gets. I feel like most families could survive with less. And $100k jobs are generally found in any regional city with an economic population of 500k or more. IT jobs especially, it seems. I'm guessing because the salary market for them seems to be more independent of the area, due to remote work. So basically you want to live in Des Moines.

Similarly it's really tiring how the only person this forum seems to think deserves to be able to afford to live is an IT worker. The whole country can't be IT workers and if we tried to make that happen those salaries you all always brag about would crater fast. And you know what companies hiring IT workers in Des Moines think? "Great, we can pay a lower salary because the cost of living is lower!"

Shipon posted:

I bought a $1500 craigslist clunker in 2014 and since then have had to put $2500 into the car in terms of repairs, and there is still plenty of work to be done. On 4 separate occasions my car stopped working and left me stranded and required towing.

Not to mention the car doesn't have working AC (it would be another $1000 to fix), and in SoCal that's not very pleasant.

Buying cars under $4000 that won't have hidden problems requiring you spend more money when you get stranded is extremely difficult. When you don't live in a place where you can do maintenance on your own vehicle (even if I knew how to) legally means you have to spend quite a bit for all those little problems.

I've been caught in that loop too. It's a nightmare. And one thing suburbanites have zero awareness of is that apartment-dwellers are, like you said, frequently not even legally allowed to do car maintenance at home. So much as changing your own oil could get you ticketed or even evicted. But you can't buy a home because you're not an IT ubermensch so go to hell, I guess.

�The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Not to mention two income households.

Again, the median household income in the US is $56k.

Subjunctive posted:

Nobody asserted that they could. The post was saying that there weren't six figure salaries adjacent to $300K homes, which is what several of us disagree with.

You "disagree with" it because you (and this is a pattern with you particularly) hate being asked to consider context. One person being able to do something doesn't mean people, on average, can do it, which makes it logical and correct to say "people can't do that" even though very special boys like you are always able to imagine up an exception. There was a guy who survived a railroad spike to the head, but that doesn't make it wrong to say "don't shoot railroad spikes at people's heads because you'll kill them."

If you want to talk about unicorns go back to your MLP fanfiction.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 29, 2017 23:59

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Both of you have the same perception gap - the "Only buy a home for 3x your income max" advice is for everyone, but the people you're imagining having an easy time doing that are only a tiny minority. Median household income in the US is roughly $56k. How much house does that buy? Every small town is going to have a handful of rich people in it, but rich people have an easy time everywhere. We're not solving a problem unless it's solved for the average person.

You said that even if you were doing extremely well and making six figures, there wouldn't be $300K houses near such jobs. I and others disagree with that thing you said, which makes no reference to average people.

I haven't expressed any opinion on the universal applicability of the 3x rule. I don't have an opinion on the 3x rule other than that I didn't follow it and don't feel bad about it.

You are reading things into posts that aren't there.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:03

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Again, the median household income in the US is $56k.

And the median home price is something like $190k - 3.4x median income. That multiple is not totally out of line with the rule of thumb being talked about.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:05

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Subjunctive posted:

You said that even if you were doing extremely well and making six figures, there wouldn't be $300K houses near such jobs. I and others disagree with that thing you said, which makes no reference to average people.

I haven't expressed any opinion on the universal applicability of the 3x rule. I don't have an opinion on the 3x rule other than that I didn't follow it and don't feel bad about it.

You are reading things into posts that aren't there.

Yeah guy, again, you have a blinkered smallminded goony-goon problem with concepts like context, generalizations, and averages. Just because you can think of someone somewhere who could conceivably have both a 100k job and a 300k house doesn't mean it's so common that we can consider the issue solved. I can conceive of an IT lord goon who has self-awareness and empathy for people in different circumstances than him, but that doesn't mean I've ever met one.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:06

ohgodwhat: Aug 6, 2005

There are not enough $300k houses near $100k jobs and there aren't enough $100k houses near $33k jobs.

Edit: cool I agree with tiny brontosaurus and now they're using autism as an insult. Cool.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:06

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

And the median home price is something like $190k - 3.4x median income. That multiple is not totally out of line with the rule of thumb being talked about.

Yeah map those two things and do your own homework on that one. Again, jobs AND home have to be near each other. Or just save us both some time and skip to the part where you go "Well I'm personally fine so this problem must be made up!" like Subjunctive will be doing in oh... roughly three posts, I'd wager.

ohgodwhat posted:

Edit: cool I agree with tiny brontosaurus and now they're using autism as an insult. Cool.

I shouldn't have done that, editing.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:08

Zo: Feb 22, 2005; LIKE A FOX

poor people shouldn't buy houses, it's not hard

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:08

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

And one thing suburbanites have zero awareness of is that apartment-dwellers are, like you said, frequently not even legally allowed to do car maintenance at home. So much as changing your own oil could get you ticketed or even evicted.

This makes me laugh when the "do your own maintenance!" bits of carchat pop up. Yeah, sure, I'll do that in the same apartment pocket dimension I'm supposed to store off-season tires in.

ohgodwhat posted:

There are not enough $300k houses near $100k jobs and there aren't enough $100k houses near $33k jobs.

I'd say half the problem is that people assume homeownership is a god-given right, but then you run into the other problem: the rent is too damned high.

ohgodwhat posted:

Edit: cool I agree with tiny brontosaurus and now they're using autism as an insult. Cool.

Yeah, maybe don't do this, TB. I know calling people autists is the go-to goon insult, but it's always eye-rolling. And I say that as a literal autist.

e: jesus this thread is moving fast

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:10

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Haifisch posted:

This makes me laugh when the "do your own maintenance!" bits of carchat pop up. Yeah, sure, I'll do that in the same apartment pocket dimension I'm supposed to store off-season tires in.

I'd say half the problem is that people assume homeownership is a god-given right, but then you run into the other problem: the rent is too damned high.

Yeah, maybe don't do this, TB. I know calling people autists is the go-to goon insult, but it's always eye-rolling. And I say that as a literal autist.

Yeah I edited. My bad. And yeah I mean, I'm actually fairly anti-homeownership same as I reject most of the other trappings of suburban fantasy life, but most places in this country simply don't have the rental housing stock to support the population, especially for people who have pets or kids or, you know, want to change their own oil. Buuuuut of course the Goon response will be "gently caress you for thinking you deserve any happiness or convenience while you have the audacity to be poorer than me!"

And for reference, in my city, landlords are starting to ask for 4x the rent in monthly net income to approve a rental application. Which means our $56k household would be eligible for about $900-1000 rent, depending on taxes. And I know the scoffing comfy suburban IT guy contingent is just literally going to accuse me of lying on this one, but in 2017 Los Angeles $1000 does not even get you an apartment with a kitchen.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:12

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Haifisch posted:

This makes me laugh when the "do your own maintenance!" bits of carchat pop up. Yeah, sure, I'll do that in the same apartment pocket dimension I'm supposed to store off-season tires in.

this always irritates me, you pay someone money for that poo poo (tire storage) if you live in an apartment

you can always do your own basic work in the street though. i lived next to a bunch of puerto rican dudes and we were all wrenching on our cars in the street on weekends.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:13

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Yeah map those two things and do your own homework on that one. Again, jobs AND home have to be near each other. Or just save us both some time and skip to the part where you go "Well I'm personally fine so this problem must be made up!" like Subjunctive will be doing in oh... roughly three posts, I'd wager.

That's the whole point of using a central value. Yes, there are many parts of the country where median home value is significantly higher than 3x the local median income. But to get to a overall multiple of 3.4x, those areas are by definition offset by areas where that multiple is lower.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:15

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

this always irritates me, you pay someone money for that poo poo (tire storage) if you live in an apartment

you can always do your own basic work in the street though. i lived next to a bunch of puerto rican dudes and we were all wrenching on our cars in the street on weekends.

Until you get caught. You can always do anything until you get caught, dude.

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

That's the whole point of using a central value. Yes, there are many parts of the country where median home value is significantly than 3x the local median income. But to get to a overall multiple of 3.4x, those areas are by definition offset by areas where that multiple is lower.

And the jobs in those particular areas pay even less than that. This isn't hard, you just don't like it so you've decided it can't be true. The median household income for homeowners is, according to a quick google, $72k. Sure, a paltry difference to our captains of industry here, but a massive, likely unattainable jump in income for those $56k households we're talking about.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:15

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

E: never mind, there is nothing that will break this pattern

Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:18

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Subjunctive posted:

It has nothing to do with my personal circumstances -- there are no $300K houses in Toronto -- and everything to do with you dodging around what you actually said, and what people responded to, and what they actually said. You are fabricating whole-cloth people lacking empathy (I grew up food-or-heat poor in Canada, I can both empathize and sympathize with people facing housing insecurity) or advocating positions they haven't taken.

Maybe try reciting this in a mirror:

"Hmm, maybe I was wrong about people doing extremely six-figures well not being near $300K houses. The more important thing, which I would now like to discuss without ad hominems or strawmen to derail the conversation, is how that affects people who are not doing extremely well."

Just see how it feels. You might like it!

Hmm I think I'm just gonna continue to make fun of you for being a self-centered idiot until you can wrap your meaty head around the difference between the exception and the rule. Somewhere in this country there's probably a millionaire living within spitting distance of a tarpaper shack. That doesn't mean jack poo poo when we're talking about people in aggregate. Are you aware that "people" is a plural? Is that the sticking point here?

And like, again, Subjunctive, I know you. I've seen you pull this poo poo before. You throw the same tantrum anytime anyone tries to get you to think about groups and averages and trends instead of just arguing that whatever contrived scenario first popped into your head is universal.

Wait... are you the railroad spike guy? That would explain a lot.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:23

Hoodwinker: Nov 7, 2005

I'm just gonna leave this here:

Roommate (21M) in the worst financial position I've ever seen. 486 credit score, $18k in debt, 0 college credits, $0 savings, no car, suspended license, minimum wage job and no family to help him. Can someone give him a path?

quote:

EDIT #3 3:10P EST: sigh No bs, ex-GF is threatening to "gently caress off" roomies credit and purposely damage assets after their discussion about the car delinquency. Can anyone offer a suggestion before something goes wrong? Real stressful times man. Link to the other post here. I didn't want to edit it into here cause I didn't think it would get enough attention and I'm just so stressed out. I definitely think both posts warrant their own dicussion thread. Once again, thank you to everyone and anyone who offers suggestions and advice; I really appreciate it.

So, long story short this is a brother to me. We're not related but we've been through a lot. I invited him to live with me splitting expenses when he was on his last dollar. I promised him that I'd never let him be homeless again. This was late April.

He came from another state and had an SO. He had an apartment under his name with her and (stupidly, which I told him not to) financed a 2016 Kia something. Came out to like 16K initially. He left the SO and the car out in the other state and came to live with me after things with her spiraled downhill. He knew that being around her wouldn't be healthy and he couldn't progress. So that's the back story.

Foolishly, again against my advisement, he left the car (which is joint responsibility in between the two them in the other state in the SO's hands instead of giving it back to the dealership. Four months later, we were thinking about a small personal loan so he could get a $1,500-$3,000 car just for work and a small $1,000 emergency fund. So... we run his credit report.

It returns with a freaking 486, 492 and 496, from all three major credit agencies and 5 collections accounts, 4 of which were tickets (that he knew about, but didn't know hit collections) and the 5th which blindsided the both of us, $499 past due on the vehicle with the last payment received on f**cking April 1st, 2017 and the first delinquency on June 1st, 2017.

Basically, his ex-SO screwed him and broke her promise to pay the car, tanking both of their credit scores.

Here are the debts in total (not 100% accurate cause I'm on laptop not home PC):

Car, joint with SO - $15,500 initial takeout. About 14,000 owed. No payment since 04/01. He hasn't spoken to old SO in months. Do you think the repossessed the car? What should he do about this?

He wants to give them back the car but if they're gonna take the car and make them pay the $14,000 debt, then that'd just be stupid. What if they take the car for used value (I guess $9,000), remove that from the $14,000 debt and split it evenly amongst the two debtors? That would be ~$2,500-$3,000 sans any fees. Is that how they do things or?

Ticket from old state for license suspension. Owe's $3,000 on license, takes $1,000 to get reinstated but the collection debt is $1,272.

Ticket from old state. Don't know what it is. He has about 3 of them all around the $3-$500 range. I'll ask more about what these are from exactly, but I'm more worried about the financial ramifications.

EDIT: 2:13P EST: Let me just also add that he doesn't have state health care (Husky) or any for that matter so seeking guidance, help, therapy and/or counseling is not a viable option right now. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier, my apologies.

Like the title says, yes, my roommate is about the closest thing to at the lowest point I've ever seen. He has $0 savings and probably $100 to his name after bills. He doesn't have a car and I couldn't even give him my old one to get a better job but he can't even drive it cause of his suspended license. He has no college credits and has failed out of two different state institutions (sigh, probably both of which he owes money to now).

He works 35-40 hours a week at Dunkin' Donuts making like $10.50/h. I don't want this to be my brother, I don't want this to be his life. I just don't know how to get him out of this spot. We are literal complete polar opposites.

All family is in another state and he grew up in the foster care system. He left foster care on his own when he was 18 for the freedom. Is there anyways we can get the benefits back from him or?

No health care to his name right now, however we have free health care available to us in our state. Does anybody know how long it takes to get this done?

I'm the one with the 739 credit score, 51 college credits, job for last 20 months, two cars in my name, $0 debt, 4-digits savings and the apartment is in my name. I really don't know how to help him out and it's so, so, so frustrating.

Please, please, please, anybody that could give us any guidance would be SO appreciated. I mean wholeheartedly. Because it's draining me because I care so much about this kid and it's clearly draining him because I mean, just look at that situation.

Is there anything we could do? Any trades you guys would recommend? Changes don't have to be immediate, but they just have to happen ):

Thanks so much guys :/

EDIT: Should he file for bankruptcy? I mean, his credit is so poo poo that it wouldn't make a difference but I KNOW that nobody wants to speak to you for the next 7 years after that, and I wouldn't call this an amount of "unrepayable debt."

EDIT #2: I have a stats class at 3:55P EST and I'm just going to relax right now. I didn't know this post was going to get this much attention (6.3k at time of viewing, 2:10P EST) and I can't respond to everyone, whether right away or all together. Please, however, know that I am reading everyone's perspectives and points of view and will allow him to read them as well, if he pleases. Thank you all so much for your time and care, and hopefully I'll be able to update this post when he's made/leaning towards a decision.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:25

ohgodwhat: Aug 6, 2005

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

this always irritates me, you pay someone money for that poo poo (tire storage) if you live in an apartment

Gee what do people who don't have money do

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:26

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

And the jobs in those particular areas pay even less than that. This isn't hard, you just don't like it so you've decided it can't be true.

I ... don't think you understand how averages work. If the national median home value is 3.4x the national median income, some areas will be above 3.4x and others below 3.4x. It is mathematically impossible for both low income and high income areas to have a higher multiple across the board and then average out to a lower figure.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:28

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

I ... don't think you understand how averages work. If the national median home value is 3.4x the national median income, some areas will be above 3.4x and others below 3.4x. It is mathematically impossible for both low income and high income areas to have a higher multiple across the board and then average out to a lower figure.

Jfc read my posts before you respond. I'm not here to teach you math.

You're comparing two populations that overlap venn-diagram style but are not identical. One circle is "households that earn an income" and one circle is "households that own a home." Puzzle that one out before you come at me with "mathematically impossible," genius.

"I deserve to be richer than average because I'm so smart!" --Every IT Goon.

Edit: Here, Let Me Spoon-Feed You

http://www.dailynews.com/business/20150820/if-you-make-the-median-income-in-la-county-you-still-cant-afford-a-home-study-says

The Article You Could Have Easily Googled Yourself if You Weren't So Busy Being So Very Very Smart posted:

For example, less than 33 percent of the state�s inventory of available single-family homes, condominiums and town homes for sale was priced at or below what a household earning the California median income of $60,244 could afford, the association said.

�The significant disparity between what homebuyers can realistically afford and actual home price is discouraging,� association President Chris Kutzkey, said in a statement. �While housing is affordable in some regions of the state, California lacks an adequate supply and mix of affordable housing in locations where the majority of the state�s workforce resides.�

Edit 2: And to ward off the obvious, this article is using a different calculus for "affordable" than the 3x rule we've been discussing here.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 30, 2017

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:31

Moneyball: Jul 11, 2005; It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

Hoodwinker is a good poster posting good bad with money stories. Be good like Hoodwinker.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:34

Zo: Feb 22, 2005; LIKE A FOX

Hoodwinker posted:

I'm just gonna leave this here:

Roommate (21M) in the worst financial position I've ever seen. 486 credit score, $18k in debt, 0 college credits, $0 savings, no car, suspended license, minimum wage job and no family to help him. Can someone give him a path?

the worst part of this story is the op thinking he can help his retarded friend in any way. it'll all be in one ear and out the other.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:35

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Zo posted:

the worst part of this story is the op thinking he can help his retarded friend in any way. it'll all be in one ear and out the other.

If I'm gonna get multiple callouts for saying "autismal" you can't do this.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:36

Loan Dusty Road: Feb 27, 2007

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Both of you have the same perception gap - the "Only buy a home for 3x your income max" advice is for everyone, but the people you're imagining having an easy time doing that are only a tiny minority. Median household income in the US is roughly $56k. How much house does that buy? Every small town is going to have a handful of rich people in it, but rich people have an easy time everywhere. We're not solving a problem unless it's solved for the average person. Housing is a necessity, not a luxury, and it's one our society is utterly failing to provide. Homes are priced so the average person couldn't hope to pay one off in a lifetime, and rental properties are rarely being built and when they are they're all targeted at rich people. "But but but this unicorn I just thought up could-" is useless. What ordinary people are saying is that they're forced to choose between living somewhere with jobs and living somewhere they can afford to own a home. And you know what those small towns you guys are always ordering everyone to live in don't have very much of? Apartments.

What's the society you guys are aiming for here? Doctors and richer get a roof over their heads and everybody else lives in the street? Is that your utopia?

Similarly it's really tiring how the only person this forum seems to think deserves to be able to afford to live is an IT worker. The whole country can't be IT workers and if we tried to make that happen those salaries you all always brag about would crater fast. And you know what companies hiring IT workers in Des Moines think? "Great, we can pay a lower salary because the cost of living is lower!"

I've been caught in that loop too. It's a nightmare. And one thing suburbanites have zero awareness of is that apartment-dwellers are, like you said, frequently not even legally allowed to do car maintenance at home. So much as changing your own oil could get you ticketed or even evicted. But you can't buy a home because you're not an IT ubermensch so go to hell, I guess.

�The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."

Again, the median household income in the US is $56k.

You "disagree with" it because you (and this is a pattern with you particularly) hate being asked to consider context. One person being able to do something doesn't mean people, on average, can do it, which makes it logical and correct to say "people can't do that" even though very special boys like you are always able to imagine up an exception. There was a guy who survived a railroad spike to the head, but that doesn't make it wrong to say "don't shoot railroad spikes at people's heads because you'll kill them."

If you want to talk about unicorns go back to your MLP fanfiction.

Haha holy poo poo you are insufferable. gently caress of with trying to put that much garbage in my mouth for my 3 word reply to your stupid post. You are the tool that came up with the six figure scenario. Sorry what you posted was wrong? Me pointing that out has nothing to do with my views on society. This isn't D&D and I'm not expressing those views. Just pointing out that what you said is factually not true. Now go back to calling everyone a racist please.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:47

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Dustoph posted:

Haha holy poo poo you are insufferable. gently caress of with trying to put that much garbage in my mouth for my 3 word reply to your stupid post.

I don't even know who you are. But this is a great example of a post that I'd get banned for while you will skate by just fine. "gently caress of" yourself.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:50

Zo: Feb 22, 2005; LIKE A FOX

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

If I'm gonna get multiple callouts for saying "autismal" you can't do this.

please tb, I would like to stick with the bwm stories, not your raging mental illness

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:52

TheQuietWilds: Sep 8, 2009

TB isn't wrong though, it's a huge problem, and everybody who even casually looks at the wealth of freely available information about it agrees it's a huge issue, and goons twisting in agony trying figuring out a small list of hypotheticals where a doctor living on the outskirts of Des Moines can afford a house just proves it, because even the idiots ITT subconsciously understand that the answer isn't just "well most people can find affordable housing in most cities near to jobs they're qualified for," because they obviously can't if you're pulling out remote IT workers living in rural Midwest or whatever. How can you all possibly be so dense?

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:53

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

You want to know where there's $100k jobs and $300k houses? Houston, TX.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:54

Zo: Feb 22, 2005; LIKE A FOX

by that i mean the story posted by hoodwinked is very good and you should read it if you haven't, and let us know what you think. about the story, not posters itt.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:54

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

Twerk from Home posted:

You want to know where there's $100k jobs and $300k houses? Houston, TX.

Was, not is.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:56

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

TheQuietWilds posted:

TB isn't wrong though, it's a huge problem, and everybody who even casually looks at the wealth of freely available information about it agrees it's a huge issue, and goons twisting in agony trying figuring out a small list of hypotheticals where a doctor living on the outskirts of Des Moines can afford a house just proves it, because even the idiots ITT subconsciously understand that the answer isn't just "well most people can find affordable housing in most cities near to jobs they're qualified for," because they obviously can't if you're pulling out remote IT workers living in rural Midwest or whatever. How can you all possibly be so dense?

Thank you - another big big problem with home ownership collapsing is, while it's not the system I would have set up, paid-off houses are basically how we provide for our old people. Grandma doesn't have an income so she can't get an apartment on the regular market. The only reason she still has a roof over her head is because she and grandad paid it off in the eighties. When it's time for Grandma to do one of the many phenomenally expensive end-of-life things like get full-time nursing care, it's possible because she has a huge expensive asset she can sell off. Our generation is not going to be so lucky.

Twerk from Home posted:

You want to know where there's $100k jobs and $300k houses? Houston, TX.

Har. But what you're all missing is the whole reason I talked about a $100k income household is that's someone doing "really well," i.e. they are unusually lucky, and that's the income range where buying a house begins to be easy to imagine.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 00:58

ohgodwhat: Aug 6, 2005

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

I ... don't think you understand how averages work. If the national median home value is 3.4x the national median income, some areas will be above 3.4x and others below 3.4x. It is mathematically impossible for both low income and high income areas to have a higher multiple across the board and then average out to a lower figure.

The 50th percentile house price divided by the 50th percentile household income is not an average of house price to income across the whole distribution, nor are households allocated to houses by income rank.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:02

Cassius Belli: May 22, 2010; horny is prohibited

Spotted in another thread, house-level money...

cumshitter posted:

One time I had this stupid rear end in a top hat blowing up my desk phone saying, "Cumshitter I gots to talk to yas, it's important gimme a call."

I ignored it because he wasn't my client and he was asking about one of my 95 year old lich queens who make up our customer base. Anyway, it turned out that he thought that one of my clients died because he had been googling the obituaries and someone with the same name who was also 90+ had a died a few weeks before. He was calling me to ensure that we had his beneficiary contact info up to date.

Turns out she wasn't dead, and also she was really pissed at this guy for calling me, an office drone, before calling her to see if she was alive or dead. That phone call cost that stupid motherfucker $200,000 in inheritance money. And it loving ruled costing that dumb motherfucker $200K.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:03

Folly: May 26, 2010

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

And the jobs in those particular areas pay even less than that.

I expressly disagree with this. Every time I've looked into it, I've found that CoL moves faster in both directions than salary. (I.e. i think NYC had a CoL index twice that of my area's, but a median household only about 25 to 50% higher, depending on field).

Last time I looked into this I compared major cities like Boston, NYC, and Chicago to regional cities like Des Moines, Cincinnati, and Nashville. I'm can't remember how many I did, but I never found a single comparison where median household income increased proportionally to CoL index in a higher-than-average CoL area.

If you have another method of comparison, I'd love to hear it, we'll run it together. But so far I've only seen assertions of your position and insults.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:21

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

Folly posted:

I expressly disagree with this. Every time I've looked into it, I've found that CoL moves faster in both directions than salary. (I.e. i think NYC had a CoL index twice that of my area's, but a median household only about 25 to 50% higher, depending on field).

Last time I looked into this I compared major cities like Boston, NYC, and Chicago to regional cities like Des Moines, Cincinnati, and Nashville. I'm can't remember how many I did, but I never found a single comparison where median household income increased proportionally to CoL index in a higher-than-average CoL area.

If you have another method of comparison, I'd love to hear it, we'll run it together. But so far I've only seen assertions of your position and insults.

As ever, insulting me is fine but god forbid I ever return fire. I'm not really sure what you're arguing here or what you think I was arguing. It feels like we actually agree? Rises in cost of living outpace wage growth - that's the entire problem with our economy and a large part of why people can't buy houses like they're expected to. I was trying to explain that the population "earns an income" is different than the population "owns a home," and just because you earn the national median income doesn't mean you can afford a home where you live, and if you moved to where homes are cheaper you can't count on being able to earn the same money. All of this is ignoring the practicalities of moving anyway, like being able to find a job in your new area that you personally as a specific individual person can actually get hired onto, and the complications of spouses, kids, relatives, or god forbid actually liking where you live.

Shame I don't have PMs anymore so you same people wringing your hands about my "insults" can no longer call me a purple-cunted niggerbitch whore like you used to. Send me a pic of a dog your futile doxxing efforts led you to believe is mine along with a skinned dog and a picture of your goony knife collection, sure, but god forbid I besmirch the character of our nation's brave IT workers.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:29

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

jesus dude get over yourself

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:32

Tiny Brontosaurus: Aug 1, 2013; by Lowtax

JewKiller 3000 posted:

jesus dude get over yourself

I'm sorry, rainbow butterfly knives are cool, you're right. I should have been more impressed.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:33

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

If I'm gonna get multiple callouts for saying "autismal" you can't do this.

Goon rules of decorum are similar to the Senate in that we can say poo poo about others, but it gets iffy when we attack one another. So we can call other people retarded, but insulting other goons isn�t cool.

Which to be fair should probably apply to people who accuse you of having a mental illness also.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:36

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:06

Moneyball: Jul 11, 2005; It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

Y'all gonna get this thread locked for a time out if you can't behave like proper social outcasts.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 01:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Bad With Money 2018: When I die, bury me in the blockchain.

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