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Shangri-Law School posted:FYI, I'm talking specifically about using violence as a deliberate tactic against Nazis. I'm not complaining about all the ways that peaceful resistance has been deployed. As I told someone else recently: the only thing this line of argument is going to get you is a label as a nazi sympathizer. Right now in this atmosphere too many people are just not ready to hear it. They will say things like "nonviolence hasn't worked" and "but they deserve to be punched" and "milquetoast liberal hand-wringing while the other side gleefully co-opts violent movements" etc. etc. and rational rebuttals are seen as weakness and equivocation and moral relativity etc. etc. The silver lining is that it is satisfying to see racist alt-right shitheads getting punched, even if you understand it's just feeding into the victimization complex and providing recruitment fodder and alienating huge swathes of potential supporters. For anyone actually interested in engaging in the violence vs. nonviolent approaches to protest and counterprotest, here's some futher reading: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pop-psych/201702/why-non-violent-protests-work http://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Violence-Works/140951 http://time.com/3951282/riot-violence-use-american-history/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/violence-doesn-t-work-most-of-the-time/309031/
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Aug 30, 2017 21:36
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Tff training would involve very few barbells and poo poo loads off oddly shaped objects. "Pick up this bucket full of concrete and run 100 m sprints with it."
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Aug 30, 2017 21:37
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SHOAH NUFF posted:we need someone to design uniforms jock strap and a sailor hat
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Aug 30, 2017 21:37
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Leperflesh posted:As I told someone else recently: the only thing this line of argument is going to get you is a label as a nazi sympathizer. Right now in this atmosphere too many people are just not ready to hear it. They will say things like "nonviolence hasn't worked" and "but they deserve to be punched" and "milquetoast liberal hand-wringing while the other side gleefully co-opts violent movements" etc. etc. and rational rebuttals are seen as weakness and equivocation and moral relativity etc. etc. Lol rational rebuttals get off your high horse
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Aug 30, 2017 21:39
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No Butt Stuff posted:I am and would have been the breadwinner for the foreseeable future. In May 2019 she would ostensibly finish school, but I don't see that happening, if I'm being honest. Given the positive time investment you've demonstrated for your children in this thread, you provide much more utility to your children than the median American father. Combined with your high income, the children will likely be fine. Most of the statistics around the negative impact of divorce on children is compromised by confounding variables, mutlicollinearity, and problems with the black box system. Divorces are skewed towards younger couples, less affluent couples, and other traits that in and of themselves would contribute to unoptimal child development. Outside of posting on SA, you seem like a well-balanced and accomplished human. As long as you're a positive, reliable, and decent human being, you will do fine as a single father. Kids are surprisingly smart and resilient.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:40
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No Butt Stuff posted:
listen to me no butt stuff my parents got divorced when I was 6 years old and look how I turned out
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Aug 30, 2017 21:42
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No Butt Stuff posted:Wife went to lunch with me today. She's after an internship that will pay her fuckall, but is thinking that come the New Year she wants to get separated. Ah gently caress dude. I'm so sorry to hear that. I've gone through a separation/divorce myself so I really feel for you. Just do what you've been doing. Start prepping for poo poo and lawyer up now. Document everything. If you ever want to talk, feel free to reach out. Ehud posted:listen to me no butt stuff my parents got divorced when I was 6 years old and look how I turned out Yikes.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:43
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Ehud posted:listen to me no butt stuff my parents got divorced when I was 6 years old and look how I turned out How about your sister?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol rational rebuttals get off your high horse drat I forgot for a second this was the 'no seriousposts from leperflesh' thread, my bad
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Aug 30, 2017 21:43
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everyone in the militia should: - squat 2xBW - field strip a Glock in under 30 seconds - recite the labor theory of value - possess a rare skill
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Aug 30, 2017 21:45
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Leperflesh posted:drat I forgot for a second this was the 'no seriousposts from leperflesh' thread, my bad Listen Young Leper, I appreciate your serious posts but lol at citing Time and Psychology Today. JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 21:46
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SHOAH NUFF posted:everyone in the militia should: So just be able to warmup?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:47
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Leperflesh posted:drat I forgot for a second this was the 'no seriousposts from leperflesh' thread, my bad I don't have a problem serious posts but that post was so smug and it really didn't deserve it with your "sources"
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Aug 30, 2017 21:49
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FizFashizzle posted:So just be able to warmup? I can't squat my body weight but I can easily deadlift and 45 degree press my body weight. What a world.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:50
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Life is all about trying to do the right thing in a world that makes it difficult. You've got to have a plan if you want to win. "Racists deserve to be punched" is not how the Civil Rights Movement won. "Capitalists deserve to be punched" is not how labor won, and was frequently how they lost. "The Brits deserve to be punched" is not how Gandhi won. Maybe I'm just taking throwaway posts too seriously, but it's important to know history.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:51
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FizFashizzle posted:So just be able to warmup? You've failed the test of humility, Ehud will now be teaching strength
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Aug 30, 2017 21:52
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The fascination with MLK and Gandhi has always struck me as weird. Gandhi wished for the power to nuke Britain and would've done it gladly. MLK was martyred for a job left barely a third finished and the average black person in the US in terrible conditions Also your Atlantic article was written right after the Arab spring and hooboy is pointing at Egypt or Yemen not doing it any favors now.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:52
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Shangri-Law School posted:Life is all about trying to do the right thing in a world that makes it difficult. You've got to have a plan if you want to win. In all three of those cases the "winners" were considered more acceptable by the ruling classes than the far more extreme alternative.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:52
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Kalli posted:The fascination with MLK and Gandhi has always struck me as weird. Gandhi wished for the power to nuke Britain and would've done it gladly. MLK was martyred for a job left barely a third finished and the average black person in the US in terrible conditions Gandhi was all over the place. He also advocated on violent resistance in the face of theoretical nazi invasion, to the point he was ready to lose over a million people to just lying down in the road to stop their tanks. He was assassinated by a Hindu nationalist who didn't think he hated muslims enough. Regardless, the reason he was allowed to flourish by the relevant ruling parties was his independent India was more acceptable than other, more leftist and/or radically Hindu proposals.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:55
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Shangri-Law School posted:Life is all about trying to do the right thing in a world that makes it difficult. You've got to have a plan if you want to win. None of those groups won, hell most of them lost pretty handily. I um don't think you know much about history if you think nonviolence helped any of those groups.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:55
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:How about your sister? my oldest sister got really into drugs and hit a telephone pole while driving drunk and high. She died at 22 years old then my other sister got pregnant when she was 15 and the dad got locked up in prison while she was pregnant, then she became a stripper and also got really into drugs because that lifestyle is hell, then she got fired because she fell and broke her arm while stripping and then she got pregnant again by a different guy who was abusive and didn't work and so they broke up and he said he was leaving with their son, so I was like 16 I had to break in to their house and essentially kidnap my nephew in the middle of the night and then my sister gave up custody of both of her kids to my mom because she doesn't care about them, then my sister just had another baby recently with a different guy and neither one of them works and they just live off food stamps and live with the the guy's parents we don't talk anymore because she invited my wife and I to her birthday party and when we got there she threatened to beat up my wife lol
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Aug 30, 2017 21:56
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Kalli posted:The fascination with MLK and Gandhi has always struck me as weird. Gandhi wished for the power to nuke Britain and would've done it gladly. MLK was martyred for a job left barely a third finished and the average black person in the US in terrible conditions I have the biggest goon crush on you
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Aug 30, 2017 21:56
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SHOAH NUFF posted:You've failed the test of humility, Ehud will now be teaching strength everyone just do your best and try to have a good time in the militia!
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Aug 30, 2017 21:57
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FizFashizzle posted:In all three of those cases the "winners" were considered more acceptable by the ruling classes than the far more extreme alternative. Naturally. But that doesn't invalidate the gains the made. Kalli posted:The fascination with MLK and Gandhi has always struck me as weird. Gandhi wished for the power to nuke Britain and would've done it gladly. MLK was martyred for a job left barely a third finished and the average black person in the US in terrible conditions Gandhi's personal failings and MLK getting shot before finishing his work aren't really rebuttals to the success they found.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:58
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Ehud posted:my oldest sister got really into drugs and hit a telephone pole while driving drunk and high. She died at 22 years old 
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Aug 30, 2017 21:59
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Kalli posted:The fascination with MLK and Gandhi has always struck me as weird. Gandhi wished for the power to nuke Britain and would've done it gladly. MLK was martyred for a job left barely a third finished and the average black person in the US in terrible conditions Gandhi had very little to do with actual Indian independence. He was an important symbol for Indians, and he was also so famous and revered that the British were afraid to harshly punish him and whoever Gandhi 'graced' with an alliance because the British knew their untenable position in the face of riots/violent opposition. A lot of other Congress/ML party leaders did the real work, like Sardar Patel and Nehru and Jinnah etc. In fact some of the most celebrated and impactful Indian freedom fighters, like Bhagat Singh and Udham Singh, were famous because they killed British. Not innocent British civilians (although Bhagat accidentally capped a random British soldier), but British military leaders that had perpetuated massacres in India.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:None of those groups won, hell most of them lost pretty handily. Eh. Watching peaceful protesters get beat up by racist southern police absolutely galvanized the rest of the country. Non-violence didn't end racism in American but it helped propel the success of Civil Rights legislation.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:59
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Eh. Watching peaceful protesters get beat up by racist southern police absolutely galvanized the rest of the country. It helped propel the success of Civil Rights legislation. Some put the powers that be just changed up their tactics and did their jobs in a more low key and honestly more damaging fashion. Hell even those peaceful protests were depicted as violent insurgents. We don't do that now but that is because tricking people into thinking non violent protest works is more useful
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Aug 30, 2017 22:01
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Ehud posted:listen to me no butt stuff my parents got divorced when I was 6 years old and look how I turned out Divorce makes your children obsess about shirt printing 
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Aug 30, 2017 22:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:None of those groups won, hell most of them lost pretty handily. I know things aren't good now, but it's insane to think that the Civil Rights Movement or labor movement were defeats. Did violence help them? What did Haymarket Square or the collapse of the Homestead Strike do for labor? Was there some massive violent clash during the Civil Rights Movement that I don't know about? Provoking a violent response with nonviolent demonstration is not the same.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:03
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Ehud posted:my oldest sister got really into drugs and hit a telephone pole while driving drunk and high. She died at 22 years old Jesus christ man
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Aug 30, 2017 22:04
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Shangri-Law School posted:I know things aren't good now, but it's insane to think that the Civil Rights Movement or labor movement were defeats. The haymarket affair proves my point more than yours so thanks?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:05
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It's kinda dumb to just arbitrarily say that only a certain kind of protest can work.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:09
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:It's kinda dumb to just arbitrarily say that only a certain kind of protest can work. I agree with that.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:12
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Has it been pointed out that LGBT rights didn't even really exist as a concept in America until drag queens starting rioting.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:15
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The Stonewall Riots is probably a good example of violent protest being necessary and accomplishing something (acknowledgment of their basic existence).
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Aug 30, 2017 22:16
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Listen Young Leper, I appreciate your serious posts but lol at citing Time and Psychology Today. Very fair point, that was super lazy of me. My intent was to show that the question of the efficacy of nonviolence vs. violence is not settled but also kind of stupid to reduce to "just punch nazis it's fine and if you disagree you're a nazi sympathizer," an opinion not actually expressed in this thread exactly but which I am seeing running rampant in other threads, responses to news articles about antifa, etc. These guys identify some ongoing and completed research, but we have to assume the International Center on Nonviolent Conflict are not going to fund or highlight research that contradicts their mission. Previously when I've tried to find independent research on the subject (like, not very hard, just using google to search for academic papers with accessible content for maybe an hour) I have had a hard time finding anything that is unequivocally independent; but at the same time, I have not found any academic research that unequivocally finds that violent protest is as or more effective than nonviolence.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:16
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drat the thread is moving too fast. If you have a broad movement involving dozens or hundreds of events, and some of those events were violent, and then there was an outcome to the broad movement, how can you prove (or disprove) that the violent events helped, or had no effect, or were a hindrance?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:18
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Durandal1707 posted:Jesus christ man it's fun to reminisce My oldest sister had this little dude hanging around our MANUFACTURED HOME when I was probably 12 or 13 and I was just hanging out in my room playing Everquest. The little dude came in and said, "man your sister said I could use y'all computer" So I signed out of Everquest and let him use the computer. "Y'all get on Yahoo? I gotta play me some spades." Then I'm just hanging out playing Playstation because the dude took over my computer. I looked over at one point and he's just muttering "drat...drat girl...." and he's looking at porn on the computer. So like two hours go by when this strange dude in my room and my door opens and it's two officers. "Are you Daniel _______?" they asked "Yeah dawg, yeah!" He replied "We're placing you under arrest because you have a warrant for blah blah blah." so they handcuff the dude and escort him out of our mobile home and the whole time my sister is jumping around the house shouting, "THAT WAS MY DAWG. THEY TOOK MY DAWG. HOW DID THEY EVEN KMOW HE WAS HERE? SOMEBODY RATTED OUT MY DAWG." hahaha! I remember another time in that mobile home my siblings said they were having a party while my mom was out of town. I told them I was going to call my mom and tell her about the party unless they rented me a video game from blockbuster and then while I was there I also got some Mountain Dew code red. At one point I walked out into the kitchen and people are burning spoons lol My mom never found out and I got to play Excite Bike 64 and drink a bunch of code red.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:The haymarket affair proves my point more than yours so thanks? May Day is a great holiday, but I would have preferred a functioning Knights of Labor. I will admit that I am weak on labor history and want to learn more. Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:It's kinda dumb to just arbitrarily say that only a certain kind of protest can work. That is fair. There's no one-size-fits-all approach. But history shows that American public opinion always turns against minority movements when they get violent. And until things are so bad that democracy is completely dead, and we're in all-out civil war, then public opinion matters. We can put ourselves in the mind of the enemy. The Charlottesville organizers wanted to provoke a violent response from BLM and anti-fa. But they hosed up and got violent themselves. What would the public response have been had a car plowed into a peaceful neo-Nazi march?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:19
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