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Corrode posted:He's not though. Yes there's tons of Ultramarines characters, but a) there are good characters for other Chapters which are mutually exclusive with taking the UM ones and b) there are shitloads of characters for SM in general, both named and generic, which offer meaningful diversity. Compare to AdMech, where there's two HQ choices, Cawl and a generic TPD. Cawl is an upgunned TPD in every way - he's a melee monster who also has better than generic shooting, a better aura, and a useful army-wide ability. 99% of armies will have at least 2 HQs and a second TPD adds nothing except redundancy (which does have its own value, admittedly). The points differential between a naked TPD (135pts) and Cawl (250pts) is not great enough to offset how much more effective he is as a force multiplier and a real threat to things wanting to assault your artillery blob. Saying its about tons of ultramars is wrong, but making the comparison to Roboute is fair. Roboute is the best model in the codex, maybe in the game, and is close to an auto-take, but people still play non-Ultra marines.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:33
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Stephenls posted:I asked this on RPGnet and people can't figure out what the answer is: Can a unit of Vanguard Veterans all be fielded with lightning claws, or does "The Veteran Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two items from the following list: a storm shield, a relic blade, or an item from the Pistols or Melee Weapons lists" mean that while he does have access to both lists, he can only pick one item from each and therefore can't pick two lightning claws? Like, one would think the answer would be "Yes you can make a unit of gothy raven guard with all jump packs and lightning claws and beakie helmets purchased from bitz resellers" but, well. You definitely can take two items from the lists - if you couldn't, and it was "You may take A, B, or C and not the same one twice", you wouldn't be able to take a pistol and a melee weapon, which would be silly and would invalidate like 90% of VV sarge loadouts.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:35
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Guilliman can be taken as his own lord of war detachment with a different chapter as the main detachment. You don't get his full benefit of rerolling all failed hits and wounds but he's still real loving good and the primary detachment still gets their chapter poo poo. Taking cawl with a different forgeworld would be pointless.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:37
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There's really no comparison to be had between Space Marines and AdMech. Granted AdMech is a new force and I don't think they were meant to be a standalone army, so it makes sense their options are limited. Corrode made the point of AdMech only having 2 HQ choices, with Cawl being and auto-take because of his ability allowing all Mars faction to reroll any shots in the shooting phase. Most of your shooting with AdMech is on a 4+, so it's a mandatory to take, especially because the Tech-Priest only allows rolls of 1 to be re-rolled. You can still take a sledgehammer of a force with Space Marines without Guilliman. The point is that there's options with Space Marines. You don't have to take Guilliman to win or do good. You MUST take Cawl to do good with AdMech. Even with Forge-World specific rules coming, they'd have to be amazingly great to make you not take Cawl, which they most likely will not be. I think us AdMech folks are just lamenting our limited range, and were hoping for new stuff so we could take interesting and new lists without having to ally (and lose canticles).
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Aug 30, 2017 15:49
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Zuul the Cat posted:There's really no comparison to be had between Space Marines and AdMech. Granted AdMech is a new force and I don't think they were meant to be a standalone army, so it makes sense their options are limited. Most of my admech shooting is 3 ups?
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Aug 30, 2017 17:06
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!Klams posted:Most of my admech shooting is 3 ups? You're right, my mistake. Army wide, the average BS is 3+. In the troops slot, which is where the weight of fire comes from in my AdMech lists, the split is 50/50 between BS 3 and BS 4 (Skitarii having 3+, Kataphrons having 4+). I should have said most of *my* shooting with AdMech is 4+.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:26
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Taking Guilliman without intent to buff your army would be a tragic waste of his points. Sure he is good in a fight, but he is nothing like the 1-man army that Magnus is, and Mortarian will be, simply due to his speed. On the topic of tournaments, the ranks of my 40k team have swelled to something like 20 people to the point that we will have 4 teams at the Adepticon Team Tournament, something I had not originally planned to get roped into. Now it looks like myself and 3 others will be playing an Ultramarine themed team, and on top of that one of my teammates is top ranked ITC, and will be joining me for the Renegade Open.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:42
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I think the worst part is that the faction that makes every other Imperial force's transports still has no transports, flying, dedicated or otherwise, nor access to any Forgeworld models to round things out (except the Questor Imperialis stuff now I guess), just as GK got Astartes fliers
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Aug 30, 2017 17:44
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https://regimental-standard.com/2017/08/30/konor-war-diaries-part-6-loebos/quote:* Please note that talk suggesting the campaign is somehow “a fix” or that the results were decided ahead of time are seditious and will be dealt with as such.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:56
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Oooh, did you notice this line: "Finally, you may have noticed more Adeptus Astartes around than usual! You’ve been lucky enough to be reinforced by a few experimental new companies of the Ultramarines – you’ll recognise them by their blue-green armour (specially coloured to camouflage them against the jungle, of course) and their scaly cloaks (made of the mutant enemies of the Imperium they hate so much)." leads to this link? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/How-to-Paint-Citadel-Miniatures-Alpha-Legion-Interactive-iBook-Edition Oh poo poo! Did Cawl go through with his plan to make Traitor Astartes Primaris!?
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Aug 30, 2017 18:09
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Zuul the Cat posted:Oooh, did you notice this line: "Finally, you may have noticed more Adeptus Astartes around than usual! You’ve been lucky enough to be reinforced by a few experimental new companies of the Ultramarines – you’ll recognise them by their blue-green armour (specially coloured to camouflage them against the jungle, of course) and their scaly cloaks (made of the mutant enemies of the Imperium they hate so much)." Of course not. The Lernaean Firstborn are made from proud ultramarine genestock.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:17
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Zuul the Cat posted:Oooh, did you notice this line: "Finally, you may have noticed more Adeptus Astartes around than usual! You’ve been lucky enough to be reinforced by a few experimental new companies of the Ultramarines – you’ll recognise them by their blue-green armour (specially coloured to camouflage them against the jungle, of course) and their scaly cloaks (made of the mutant enemies of the Imperium they hate so much)." They're regular old Alpha Legion, the reporter isn't bright enough to know the difference
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Aug 30, 2017 18:29
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quote:Luckily, our bold soldiers were able to quickly drive the Aeldari from the planet without trouble – a pack of long-haired tree-witches riding lizards Exodites?
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Aug 30, 2017 18:31
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So I'd been looking at getting some Kastelan robots, now that you guys showed me those sick alternate heads from that porno miniatures shop. But before I pull the trigger on this, I just wanted to check; arming two robots with 3 phosphor guns each and then data smithing them to shoot twice... Is that going to be as good at killing marines as I think? Are these guys not kind of nuts?
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Aug 30, 2017 18:32
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I love that they actually went for the Alphic Hydras actually being Ultramarine agents. Makes for some neat modeling opportunities.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:36
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!Klams posted:So I'd been looking at getting some Kastelan robots, now that you guys showed me those sick alternate heads from that porno miniatures shop. But before I pull the trigger on this, I just wanted to check; arming two robots with 3 phosphor guns each and then data smithing them to shoot twice... Is that going to be as good at killing marines as I think? Are these guys not kind of nuts? Welcome to Admech. You run into mobility issues and it takes a turn for the protocols to turn over but yeah. We had a experimenting with robots back in June.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:04
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 Imperial Armour
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Aug 30, 2017 19:07
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Uroboros posted:Taking Guilliman without intent to buff your army would be a tragic waste of his points. Sure he is good in a fight, but he is nothing like the 1-man army that Magnus is, and Mortarian will be, simply due to his speed. Bobby still buffs imperium forces with the captain reroll within 12 inches instead of 6, and gives you 3 free CP.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:10
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SteelMentor posted:They're regular old Alpha Legion, the reporter isn't bright enough to know the difference Did you, did you get the joke? The one that has been running through the past few weeks of the Regimental Standard since the word search one?
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Aug 30, 2017 20:35
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Milotic posted:Did you, did you get the joke? The one that has been running through the past few weeks of the Regimental Standard since the word search one? Doh. Blame these new pills, I've been on auto-pilot for the past two weeks.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:39
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I really should make it a habit of ordering from Spellcrow more. Not sure if it was a make-good because it took a while or here was just a lot of loose bits but I ordered a set of not-salamanders shoulder pads and capes, the freebies baggie also contained: - a pair of cyclone launchers - four legs, heads, torsos, backpacks - four flamers - set of terminator shoulder pads. - one heresy style jump pack. All in the not-salamanders style. Like the EC order I did before was nice because they tossed in a couple of loose extra sonic blasters and rocker heads but this was nuts.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:59
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Zuul the Cat posted:Oh poo poo! Did Cawl go through with his plan to make Traitor Astartes Primaris!? In Dark Imperium he tells Guilliman he's already done successful trials of them.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:12
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Thundercloud posted:In Dark Imperium he tells Guilliman he's already done successful trials of them. I'm really interested to see when GW drops the bomb that Bile's done with his work as well. The crazy bastard already cloned Horus so it can't be that long until Chaos sees some Primaris love. 
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Aug 30, 2017 21:35
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Landed in DC. It's motherfuckin' Nova time.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:09
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Just bit the bullet on some inceptors. What's the way to run these bumblebee boys? Assault bolters seem legit and reasonably priced. Is there an hq that synergises well with them? Perhaps with a jump pack of his own
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Aug 30, 2017 22:15
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Bolters are pretty much the only way to go. A jump pack captain would work with them, but apparently they're fragile enough that they might not get enough value.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:30
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Speckled Jim posted:Just bit the bullet on some inceptors. What's the way to run these bumblebee boys? Assault bolters seem legit and reasonably priced. Is there an hq that synergises well with them? Perhaps with a jump pack of his own Deepstike Calgar in with them? Alternatively, keep them in reserve until Bobby G and your main battle line get closer to the enemy?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:31
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I've arrived at NOVA, and we've already recorded a pre-con Badcast! In this episode we: - Namedrop some nerds - Expose my complete lack of sports knowledge - Announce our  GLOBAL CAMPAIGNhttps://40kbadcast.com/2017/08/30/40k-badcast-16-this-ones-short-but-its-not-all-about-size-ok/
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Aug 30, 2017 22:41
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Got something to listen to at work til I can go home and finish up my Kabalites. 
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Aug 30, 2017 22:43
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PierreTheMime posted:I'm really interested to see when GW drops the bomb that Bile's done with his work as well. The crazy bastard already cloned Horus so it can't be that long until Chaos sees some Primaris love.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:47
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I really should make it a habit of ordering from Spellcrow more. Faction-specific bitz blindbags would be cool as hell. Like, you could just order a bag for say, tyranids, and you'd just get a bag of random nid bits.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:55
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Safety Factor posted:I'd really rather see the generic chaos marines updated. Maybe even a new chaos terminator kit. It wouldn't take much to update the range a bit; the existing models are so cartoonish and the details are kind of soft compared to more modern kits. I dunno about you but I'm getting my updated Troops and terminator kit in a couple weeks. 
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Aug 30, 2017 23:06
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PierreTheMime posted:I dunno about you but I'm getting my updated Troops and terminator kit in a couple weeks.  No denial here that it is important to get cult marines into plastic. Hell, Khorne Berzerkers could use an update too. It just sucks that the generic legions are stuck with such old kits. Of course, the 30k kits can help alleviate that. I want to kitbash some insane conglomerations of cataphractii, tartaros, and indomitus for my Night Lords terminators.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:21
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Khorne is up next after nurgle with the Armageddon campaign and Angron, so in the next year it'll only be Noise Marines left. Does anyone have two spare primaris hellblasters for sale in the UK? I had a glue spill and melted two guns (both from the Dark Imperium set, one for each of the normal guys) so I am after replacements. I need them fairly soon as I need to paint the squad up before the goon meet. Last resort I will sub in something else, like 5 more reivers and playing around with characters.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:28
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JoshTheStampede posted:You definitely can take two items from the lists - if you couldn't, and it was "You may take A, B, or C and not the same one twice", you wouldn't be able to take a pistol and a melee weapon, which would be silly and would invalidate like 90% of VV sarge loadouts. Crossposting this from RPGnet because it's really bugging me: Okay, so as nearly as I can tell, there's four possible reads of the following passage: "The Veteran Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two items from the following list: a storm shield, a relic blade, or an item from the Pistols or Melee Weapons lists" 1. The Most Permissive: "The Veteran sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two of picks from the following list: Storm shield, relic blade, bolt pistol, grav-pistol, plasma pistol, chain sword, lightning claw, power axe, power fist, power lance, power maul, power sword, thunder hammer." This is clearly the awesomest read of the passage, because it lets you equip a guy with two power axes or two plasma pistols, and who doesn't want Veteran Sergeants with berzerker two-axe combat or twin guns akimbo? Weirdly, it also lets you pick two storm shields, although there's probably no harm in allowing that since two storm shields just lets you spend 5 extra points to take away all your attack options but grenades and doesn't provide any other benefit than that. It is really unlikely that whoever wrote that passage intended this read. 2. The Least Permissive: "The veteran sergeant who gives up his bolt pistol and chainsword must take either a storm shield or a relic blade or both, and if he does not take both may replace whichever one of those two items he doesn't take with one pick from either the Pistols or Melee Weapons list." This is a gramatically sound read of "two items from the following list: a storm shield, a relic blade, or an item from" etc. This read sucks and invalidates most historically valid Veteran Sergeant builds, but it is the most strictly correct read of the passage from a grammar perspective. 3. The Compromise: "The Veteran Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two other options, one pick each from the following four options: storm shield, relic blade, something from the Pistols list, something from the Melee Weapons list." Under this ruling a Veteran Sergeant can have a storm shield and a chainsword, or a plasma pistol and a power axe, but can't have two lightning claws or cosplay as Cypher. It's kind of boring and also what most people will probably take away from the passage, although I think from a grammar perspective it's a less valid read than either of the above. 4. The Distressingly Likely: "The Veteran Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two picks from the following list: Storm shield, relic blade, bolt pistol, grav-pistol, plasma pistol, chain sword, lightning claw, power axe, power fist, power lance, power maul, power sword, thunder hammer, as modified by common sense, where common sense is defined as a set of assumptions internalized by the passage's writer and assumed to be shared by all the readers, derived from an understanding of common principles of which models can take which gear as expressed by the rest of the Space Marine range." Under this read, you can take a storm shield and a power sword, and you can probably take two lightning claws because lightning claws are commonly wielded paired, but you can't take two plasma pistols because most models can't take two pistols, can't take two relic blades or thunder hammers because that's cheese, and can't take two storm shields because that's stupid. This read is awful. It's also about on par with the degree of rigor expressed in most rules systems across RPGs and tabletop war games. Only under Read 1 and Read 4 can a Veteran Sergeant take two lightning claws. Does that sound right? Stephenls fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 23:45
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SRM posted:I've arrived at NOVA, and we've already recorded a pre-con Badcast! In this episode we: The linked image of that primaris lieutenant is mad jank
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Aug 30, 2017 23:57
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Would people be interested in watching us stream 30K this Friday evening?
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Aug 30, 2017 23:57
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Two relic blades isn't cheese - it's wasting 22 points since paired weapons don't give an extra attack anymore.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:00
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panascope posted:Would people be interested in watching us stream 30K this Friday evening? YES.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:03
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panascope posted:Would people be interested in watching us stream 30K this Friday evening?
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Aug 31, 2017 00:10
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