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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Grouchio posted:Things I would like to know: 1) Democratic party is empirically not experiencing a rebound, despite Trump, and its leadership is doubling down on all the things that made it non-competitive, out of some crisis induced panic. 2) Liberals and fascists have a long and storied history of coexistence and symbiotism, largely due to the view that fascists are less antagonistic to business and private property than socialists. In this case it's primarily a misguided attempt to invoke an image of statesmanship by making appeals to peace and order, but the underlying flirting with authoritarianism is still present in a latent form. 3) Who knows. Importantly an administration that actually lead with its ideas could at least change the tone and permissiveness of the national debate vis a vis important social issues, and bully people with anti-popular but powerful opinions.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:13
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Grouchio posted:Things I would like to know: 
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Aug 30, 2017 21:14
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Majorian posted:Where has anyone here said that the Dems are the real racists? I've seen "the Dems sometimes support racist policies, although usually less racist than the GOP, but that's a low bar to clear," but not "the REAL racists." unsurprisingly, JC doesn't post in good faith ever. not exactly unexpected from a fascist sympathizer remember when he claimed he wasn't taking sides on whether antifa was effective or not, even though he was hunting down articles trying to prove antifa was ineffective, and then showed up the next day with a poorly made article trying to claim it proved antifa was ineffective?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:17
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it's amazing that jc has become so revolting that even baddems like whiskey juvenille think he's terrible guess that's what happens when you rush to the defense of nazis 
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Aug 30, 2017 21:20
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LeJackal posted:Okay, so the obvious issue is that he hasn't been fired, as you asserted. The second is that his statements were a bit more inflammatory than journalistic critique, and were followed by increasingly bombastic rhetoric. He wished a pox, for sakes. That actually wasn't the case I was thinking of. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/08/30/u-tampa-terminates-professor-who-suggested-texas-deserved-hurricane-backing-trump Of course, there are other cases: http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article164966162.html
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Aug 30, 2017 21:21
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Grouchio posted:Things I would like to know: Is she though? Is she?  
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 21:25
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JeffersonClay posted:^^^ You recently said "Biden would have won" as though this was some great watershed moment where you're finally coming around a bit to the idea that maybe the wrong person won the Democratic primary. The thing is, that's something just about everyone else in this thread realized by the end of the November at the latest, if not well ahead of the election. Your coming around to it now does not make you more methodical, or more reasonable. It just makes you slower. It means you are always going to be several steps behind your enemies, and to be clear on this I'm talking about the fascists here, not leftists. You and your ideological cohorts in the Democratic party will finally realize that Fascism Is Bad when they're shoving us into the ovens. That's too late dude - and this is why you're worthless as an ally.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:26
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Grouchio posted:Things I would like to know: To answer your first question,a lot of people don't feel that skeptical, but there are several reasons as to why the Democrats and the left might struggle in 2018: 1. The map is against them. Gerrymandering and the Senate seats at play mean that they would have to win across the United States by several points in order to even keep what we have. This is a large structural disadvantage. 2. The Democratic base has more trouble turning out in off-year elections than it does in Presidential years. This is the problem of running against the party of suburban white voters: you are running against the highest propensity voters in the nation. 3. The Democrats have yet to find a unified voice, although it's unclear if they'll need any other than "Not Trump". Hopefully Schumer will find some more inspiration between now and Election Day.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:32
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steinrokkan posted:1) Democratic party is empirically not experiencing a rebound, despite Trump, and its leadership is doubling down on all the things that made it non-competitive, out of some crisis induced panic. 
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Aug 30, 2017 21:49
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Don't worry. Death comes for us all. 😉
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Aug 30, 2017 21:52
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If I defend the Neo Nazis hard enough, they won't kill me when they get into power. right?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:55
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https://twitter.com/Harpers/status/902972943298265088
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Aug 30, 2017 22:05
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I really love the flattery they're giving to those Nazi cunts. really good job of the liberals to paint those wicked Hags in a flattering light.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:08
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They made Nazi lady a white, traditionally attractive, blonde woman with a Norse helmet and a spear. It's literally indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda. What the actual gently caress
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Aug 30, 2017 22:14
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Chomskyan posted:They made Nazi lady a white, traditionally attractive, blonde woman with a Norse helmet and a spear. It's literally indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda. What the actual gently caress This cover is super bad, but I had to look these people up (lol) and they only have 125k subscribers so it's not like it's gonna be NYT front page poo poo.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:28
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Lightning Knight posted:This cover is super bad, but I had to look these people up (lol) and they only have 125k subscribers so it's not like it's gonna be NYT front page poo poo. And so we return to the original debate: Ride of the Valkyries, or Blackwater?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:30
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Office Pig posted:And so we return to the original debate: Ride of the Valkyries, or Blackwater? New York Times is the actual worst sooooo
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Aug 30, 2017 22:31
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While I think it would be sexist to portray them as ugly, this probably swings hard in the other direction. Although, who knows, maybe their intent was an allusion to Nazis, which would not be terribly flattering.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:38
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There has to be at least one readily available image of a woman at one of the rallies near a Confederate or Nazi flag they could've redrawn as a picture. I mean gently caress dude, it's not about making them ugly, it's about making a clear connection between them, Nazis, and badness. That poo poo just looks like a comic book cover from 70 years ago.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:43
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Why is it that people are able to make the Trump voter -> Nazi connection so easily, yet it seems to fall apart when you bring up who most white women voted for? Face it, most white women are Nazis just like most white men are
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Aug 30, 2017 22:45
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If anyone actually feels like talking about female involvement in the Third Reich, I would recommend Hitler's Furies by Wendy Lower
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Aug 30, 2017 23:07
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Grouchio posted:Things I would like to know: 1) 2018 is a year where a bunch of Dem seats are on the line. Most of them refuse to stand for anything (or are making moves far too late in the game) and the Republicans have been regularly branding the Dems as obstructionists since November. So their base will be motivated and the dems (usually) have trouble showing up for midterms. Plus the GOP is still destroying the DNC when it comes to fundraising. 2) Despite what many people here think, Antifa does way more harm than good. Using physical violence to silence others is validating the fascists' tactics. That's something that could easily be turned against you or the causes you support in a country where your side isn't in control. And by lumping in bog standard republicans with white supremacists (let me make it clear, this wasn't the case in Charlottesville but the definition is already starting to slide) or trying to pretend that this is the fourth reich rising instead of nazis being the same stupid shitheads they've always been in modern history, you're risking normalizing them in the eyes of the right. People need to know that Richard Spencer and Vanguard America are literal white supremacists that advocate genocide and not alt-right free speech provocateurs/grifters like Milo. There is a difference. 3) That's implying that a progressive administration will able to successfully wrangling power from establishment dems in time for 2020. It's not looking good for us so far. Let's assume that Bernie does run in 2020 (I kinda doubt it unless he has a very young person as VP like Tulsi to alleviate the fears he'll die in office) and he's able to weaken Trump enough in the states that matter that he wins. Could he implement everything he runs on? No. Could he take command of the conversation and force the republicans' hand on certain issues by framing them a certain way to the public? Absolutely. That's one of his biggest assets. If it went down like that, you could see an inverse of 2018 in 2022. But this isn't a slam dunk like most progressives think it will be. It's going to take a Trump-esque style threading of the needle for us to save the party and the country. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 23:18
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Lol at that post simultaneously making GBS threads on antifa and implying Tulsi Gabbard is good. Trump voting progressives lol
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Aug 30, 2017 23:22
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Lightning Knight posted:Lol at that post simultaneously making GBS threads on antifa and implying Tulsi Gabbard is good. Trump voting progressives lol Liberals are so cute when they try to play at being leftists 
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Aug 30, 2017 23:24
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Lightning Knight posted:Lol at that post simultaneously making GBS threads on antifa and implying Tulsi Gabbard is good. Trump voting progressives lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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Aug 30, 2017 23:25
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Glazier posted:Liberals are so cute when they try to play at being leftists Is this meant to be an insult directed at me or at him? See, the criticism of you came after the parts demonstrating you to believe dumb things and was connected to that. This isn't hard bro.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:26
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Lightning Knight posted:See, the criticism of you came after the parts demonstrating you to believe dumb things and was connected to that. This isn't hard bro. So dismantle my post if it isn't that hard 'bro'
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Aug 30, 2017 23:27
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Call Me Charlie posted:So dismantle my post if it isn't that hard 'bro' We can't legitimize Nazis anymore than they already are, a Nazi sympathizer is POTUS. Trump's voters are broadly white supremacists, it was a core part of his appeal. Yes, you voted for white supremacy, dipshit. Tulsi Gabbard is a foreign policy hawk and hates Muslims and generally has no business being attached to a progressive ticket of any kind.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:29
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Wait, isn't Tulsi Gabbard an isolationist? Like, the kind that thinks we shouldn't interfere in Syria because Assad is actually a good guy?
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Aug 30, 2017 23:32
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and so the ostensible leftist is reduced to quoting Wikipedia fallacies to defend the neoliberal lanyard-dick stance on protecting fascists Oh, how the mighty have fallen
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Aug 30, 2017 23:32
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Democrazy posted:Wait, isn't Tulsi Gabbard an isolationist? Like, the kind that thinks we shouldn't interfere in Syria because Assad is actually a good guy? much like cmc, is of the opinion advocating Muslim death is good, actually that this opinion does not extend to fascists is cause for some solid hmmmmming
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Aug 30, 2017 23:34
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Lightning Knight posted:We can't legitimize Nazis anymore than they already are, a Nazi sympathizer is POTUS. Trump's voters are broadly white supremacists, it was a core part of his appeal. Yes, you voted for white supremacy, dipshit. So - in response to my post - you've addressed none of my points, called me a supporter of white supremacy, said that 63 million voters are white supremacists and tarred a progressive candidate as a foreign policy hawk that hates muslims (which triggers the  in me since if she hated muslims, it seems like it would be easier to support the policies of Hillary Clinton and establishment dems since their body count is significantly higher in that arena than the policies Tulsi supports would cause) How could we possibly be in the situation we're in today??? It's a mystery. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 23:36
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Call Me Charlie posted:So - in response to my post - you've addressed none of my points, called me a supporter of white supremacy, said that 63 million voters are white supremacists and tarred a progressive candidate as a foreign policy hawk that hates muslims (which triggers the Yes, everyone who voted for Trump either supported or was indifferent to overt white supremacy, including yourself, and are therefore part of the problem. This shouldn't be a difficult concept, but since you couldn't even act like a moral idiot and vote Stein it's apparently too difficult for you. As for Gabbard, http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/curious-islamophobic-politics-dem-congressmember-tulsi-gabbard https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tulsi-gabbard-president-sanders-democratic-party
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Aug 30, 2017 23:42
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Call Me Charlie posted:So - in response to my post - you've addressed none of my points, called me a supporter of white supremacy, said that 63 million voters are white supremacists and tarred a progressive candidate as a foreign policy hawk that hates muslims (which triggers the If white Americans turn Nazi when faced with criticism, perhaps they are irredeemable.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:45
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Condiv posted:unsurprisingly, JC doesn't post in good faith ever. not exactly unexpected from a fascist sympathizer Two days ago, when I was squashing your idiotic assertion that anyone who questions the efficacy of antifa's tactics must support the Nazis, I wasn't making an argument about the efficacy of antifa's tactics because I didn't need to in order to show how dumb your argument was. Now, I am arguing about the efficacy of antifa's methods. These are not contradictory positions. It's hilarious that you think "hunting down articles" to support the claims in my posts is somehow the hallmark of bad posting. I'm kind of fascinated by terrible arguments and the people who make them, so indulge me for a second. You think anyone who criticizes antifa must support their enemies. It seems like that's fundamentally the same argument as "anyone who criticizes democrats must support their enemies". How do you reconcile that? Don't say "because Dems are bad", that's the boring kind of stupid. Wow me with something special.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:54
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jeffersonclay, have you considered that what things seem to you has been proven to have an exceedingly poor correlation with reality over the past twelve months to the point that your sole ally in this discussion is Mr. "Vote Trump To Preserve Labor Rights" it's a thought
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Aug 30, 2017 23:59
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Ze Pollack posted:jeffersonclay, have you considered that what things seem to you has been proven to have an exceedingly poor correlation with reality over the past twelve months
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Aug 31, 2017 00:17
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Ze Pollack posted:jeffersonclay, have you considered that what things seem to you has been proven to have an exceedingly poor correlation with reality over the past twelve months I don't tend to worry much about what terrible posters in this thread have to say. Like does it worry you when NFS agrees with you? It shouldn't. Crazy people gwan crazy. Also this seems a little bitter considering you made a series of demonstrably incorrect assertions about the study I posted a couple of hours ago. Kilroy posted:You recently said "Biden would have won" as though this was some great watershed moment where you're finally coming around a bit to the idea that maybe the wrong person won the Democratic primary. The thing is, that's something just about everyone else in this thread realized by the end of the November at the latest, if not well ahead of the election. Your coming around to it now does not make you more methodical, or more reasonable. It just makes you slower. It means you are always going to be several steps behind your enemies, and to be clear on this I'm talking about the fascists here, not leftists. You and your ideological cohorts in the Democratic party will finally realize that Fascism Is Bad when they're shoving us into the ovens. That's too late dude - and this is why you're worthless as an ally. I guess unlike you my posts in this thread are not a disorganized flow of consciousness, and so it's probably a bad idea to assume that it's literally the first time I've thought about something when I post about it here. Also here's me talking about Biden's chances of winning in december 2016. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3796651&pagenumber=551&perpage=40#post467735776
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Aug 31, 2017 00:19
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that you persist in not grasping the content of the study you do not know how to read is not particularly surprising, JC the details have been cited already; your laughable attempt to explain them away by saying "b-b-but the guy's source data went to the effort he refused to go to" speaks for itself, imo
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Aug 31, 2017 00:27
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You might as well rename this thread "JC is a waste" because you guys can't seem to handle a single troll I don't think I can recall a thread that's been derailed to this level by one person.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:40
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