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prefect posted:I also never read Kickers, Inc. nooooooo
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Aug 30, 2017 15:53
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Edge & Christian posted:You should probably stop posting and get her to a doctor if reading more than a sentence of text gives here that much trouble. Tbf the entirety of the second paragraph only has one
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Aug 30, 2017 16:08
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Dillbag posted:Tbf the entirety of the second paragraph only has one
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Aug 30, 2017 16:11
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Edge & Christian posted:Is/was there really any meaningful impact to Nextwave being canon/writers acknowledging it exists outside of people writing Machine Man as Bender? You're right that there probably isn't a shadow war at Marvel between writers and editorial. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there isn't any impact to having Nextwave be canon but maybe people are just happy because a mini they liked is being referenced after they were previously told it wasn't canon. I know you hate Nextwave with a passion so maybe this concept just makes no sense, but substitute Nextwave for an enjoyable mini of your choosing and decide whether or not it would bring you a modicum of happiness seeing it referenced in a "main" book.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:13
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TwoPair posted:You're right that there probably isn't a shadow war at Marvel between writers and editorial. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there isn't any impact to having Nextwave be canon but maybe people are just happy because a mini they liked is being referenced after they were previously told it wasn't canon. I know you hate Nextwave with a passion so maybe this concept just makes no sense, but substitute Nextwave for an enjoyable mini of your choosing and decide whether or not it would bring you a modicum of happiness seeing it referenced in a "main" book. CapnAndy posted:Nextwave was declared non-canonical as soon as it came out, but the problem rapidly became that all of Marvel's writers had loved it just as much as all of the fans did, and they just flat ignored editorial and put the Nextwave versions of those characters into their comics and referenced it like it'd happened. So you ended up with a rebellion from the ground up that eventually ended when editorial went "okay fine, HATE captured those five and put them in a weird simulator they escaped from, now you can use Nextwave stuff and we don't have to deal with the weird continuity that'd exist if any of that stuff actually happened". The New Universe (which I also don't really care about) got cancelled in 1989. It was nearly twenty-five years between that and Hickman (and Ewing) reintroducing New Universe concepts, and in that time NU fans got a couple issues of Quasar, a quartet of one-shots, and a complete revamping that was cut short when Warren Ellis
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Aug 30, 2017 16:37
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Edge & Christian posted:I was responding (and I let it sit in a tab for too long) specifically to CapnAndy's assertion that there WAS a shadow war because of the overwhelming love and desire of writers to use Nextwave characters. I should have quoted it in my first post. Don't forget Ares and Night Thrasher if we're listing "Cool characters Ewing brought back".
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Aug 30, 2017 17:26
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KaosMachina posted:Don't forget Ares and Night Thrasher if we're listing "Cool characters Ewing brought back". Well then here's a question for this thread: when was Night Thrasher ever cool?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:35
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What was the deal of New Universe? I'm not a marvel fan but I seem to remember hearing that it was Marvel's attempt to do relevant comics in the 80s and failing spectacularly. Is this accurate?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:10
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Madkal posted:What was the deal of New Universe? I'm not a marvel fan but I seem to remember hearing that it was Marvel's attempt to do relevant comics in the 80s and failing spectacularly. Is this accurate? I've always heard it was Marvel's effort to create a comics world governed by "real science" (or as close to plausible science as superhero comics could be). That idea kinda faded with time however, until the New Universe was just a different comic book world with characters less interesting than those in the original Marvel U. At that point it was superfluous and thus killed off. (Cue corrections from more knowledgeable comic geeks.)
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Aug 30, 2017 23:03
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ecavalli posted:I've always heard it was Marvel's effort to create a comics world governed by "real science" (or as close to plausible science as superhero comics could be). That idea kinda faded with time however, until the New Universe was just a different comic book world with characters less interesting than those in the original Marvel U. At that point it was superfluous and thus killed off. Here's a decent listicle on it http://www.cbr.com/11-reasons-marvels-new-universe-failed/ quote:But Shooter’s reputation didn’t exactly help the project; he was hated by many people inside Marvel. After he was fired, Marvel artist and writer John Byrne held a party at his house where disgruntled employees literally burned Shooter in effigy, stuffing the dummy with unsold New Universe comic books. Byrne also used “Star Brand” to destroy Shooter’s beloved Pittsburgh.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:08
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Madkal posted:What was the deal of New Universe? I'm not a marvel fan but I seem to remember hearing that it was Marvel's attempt to do relevant comics in the 80s and failing spectacularly. Is this accurate? Longer answer: In 1985 Marvel was doing fairly well, and were owned by a company called Cadence Industries who went to Jim Shooter and essentially suggested in honor of their 25th Anniversary in 1986, and because DC was getting some mainstream attention for Crisis on Infinite Earths, Marvel should do some sort of big event where they cancel everything, reboot the universe, and start fresh with a new Spider-Man #1, X-Men #1, Captain America #1. It was basically the same pitch that actually worked about twenty-five years later for the Ultimate Universe, except that in 2000 they didn't cancel the regular line to do it. Jim Shooter did not like this idea, so he counter-pitched keeping the Marvel Universe running as it was, but instead to launch a NEW Universe that was in the spirit of the 1960s Lee/Kirby/Ditko books, where the story started right in 1986 without aliens or secret civilizations or any sort of complicated backstory, just "relevant" heroes doing realistic stuff that happened in real time. The then-VP of Marvel signed off on this about a year out, and they started doing mysterious hype ads for it. Meanwhile Cadence Industries went bankrupt and sold Marvel off to (coincidentally) a company called New World Pictures. This was all happening right as Shooter and some editors were starting to do kind of a cattle call of "top creators" to pitch titles for The New Universe. Basically between conception and the final solicitations Shooter says that the budget to "develop" the New Universe went from $120,000 to under $20,000 and consequently they couldn't hire anyone particularly popular or good, and also the lead time to really put things together shrank as they kept being told to scale things back or hold off on this or that as the sale went through and the budget kept shrinking. But still, almost a year out they had hyped that THE NEW UNIVERSE WAS COMING and they had to do something. So they did the New Universe books that you actually came out, which were generally pretty lovely. They were also mostly written (allegedly for no pay) by Shooter and other editors, and the art was mostly people who either already worked for Marvel in production or people pulled off of the slush pile of submissions that no 'real' books snapped up. Granted, this means that you get some (very, very) early artwork by Todd McFarlane, Ron Lim, Mark Texiera, Whilce Portacio, Lee Weeks, and others. It also was the first real writing work some staffers like Fabian Nicieza and Peter David got, too. But in general, the New Universe was thrown together with no money as an afterthought by mostly names no one knew or cared about after a year of enormous hype, and it bombed badly. It probably played a significant role in Jim Shooter being forced out of Marvel in 1987, at which point John Byrne gleefully took a paycut to take over Star Brand (the ostensible flagship line of the Universe) which Shooter had written, and immediately have the semi-Shooter-self-insert character gently caress up and nuke his/Shooter's hometown of Pittsburgh, which led to a bunch of weird stuff that led to them shuttering the whole line about a year later. So being underfunded and thrown together mortally wounded the New Universe, but John Byrne being a vindictive prick probably was the killing blow. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 23:22
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Ferrule posted:Well then here's a question for this thread: when was Night Thrasher ever cool? Original Nicieza New Warriors.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:44
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You mean when he was "Batman, but if Alfred killed the Waynes"?
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Aug 30, 2017 23:46
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Ferrule posted:Well then here's a question for this thread: when was Night Thrasher ever cool? Always.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:46
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Of course Night Thrasher is cool. Either he's thrashing during the night, which is super rad, or he's thrashing the night itself, which is wicked sick. Or both! Which is bitchin'!
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Aug 31, 2017 00:53
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I don't know how you can't think Night Thrasher isn't cool. He has a skateboard.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:32
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Ghostlight posted:I don't know how you can't think Night Thrasher isn't cool. Dwayne McDuffie might disagree. http://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-138/
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Aug 31, 2017 01:38
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Exactly.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:39
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ecavalli posted:Dwayne McDuffie might disagree. I was waiting for that to come up as soon as Night Thrasher got brought up.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:42
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Skwirl posted:I was waiting for that to come up as soon as Night Thrasher got brought up. I'm just happy to have an excuse to highlight this story once again. It's like Kirby vs The Mob or any story involving Steranko's life; too good not to pass down through the generations.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:46
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ecavalli posted:I'm just happy to have an excuse to highlight this story once again. It's like Kirby vs The Mob or any story involving Steranko's life; too good not to pass down through the generations. That was not meant to be a complaint, it's probably my second favorite comic book story after Jack Kirby killing Nazis.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:48
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Even though Kirkman's work is not very good, I still highly value the story of how he basically tricked Image into letting him do The Walking Dead.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:02
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Lurdiak posted:Even though Kirkman's work is not very good, I still highly value the story of how he basically tricked Image into letting him do The Walking Dead. I don't know that one, although I'm betting Image is probably pretty happy they fell for that trick now.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:22
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ecavalli posted:I've always heard it was Marvel's effort to create a comics world governed by "real science" (or as close to plausible science as superhero comics could be). That idea kinda faded with time however, until the New Universe was just a different comic book world with characters less interesting than those in the original Marvel U. At that point it was superfluous and thus killed off. In a way, Jim Shooter succeeded at this with the original Valiant universe. His version of Dr. Solar and so on were better takes on this idea than the New Universe comics. Lurdiak posted:Even though Kirkman's work is not very good, I still highly value the story of how he basically tricked Image into letting him do The Walking Dead. Was this also the time when he tricked Tony Moore out of his rightful share of money for co-creating the Walking Dead?
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Aug 31, 2017 02:28
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Skwirl posted:I don't know that one, although I'm betting Image is probably pretty happy they fell for that trick now. IIRC he lied to them and said that the whole thing was going to build to an alien invasion story.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:35
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What is it about these guys who get screwed by the Big 2 and then turn around and do the same thing? Todd McFarlane wrote a story about Marvel and DC superheroes being imprisoned by corporations, then he pulls the same poo poo with Neil Gaiman. Kirkman made a video where he cried about how bad the Big 2 are, then he screws Tony Moore in pretty much the same way. Guess they were just mad they weren't the ones doing the loving over.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:39
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Lightning Lord posted:What is it about these guys who get screwed by the Big 2 and then turn around and do the same thing? Todd McFarlane wrote a story about Marvel and DC superheroes being imprisoned by corporations, then he pulls the same poo poo with Neil Gaiman. Kirkman made a video where he cried about how bad the Big 2 are, then he screws Tony Moore in pretty much the same way. Guess they were just mad they weren't the ones doing the loving over. Money is a corrupting influence. Newer creators are better about it I think, a lot of newer Image titles are 50/50 co-owned by the writer and artist. Saga takes regular breaks because it takes Fiona Staples longer to draw an issue than Brian K. Vaughn to write one, Sex Criminals just says "by Matt Fraction and Chip Zdarsky" on the covers of the trades even though everyone knows Matt Fraction can't draw. Alan Moore gives whatever money he gets from movies to the artist, but I think that just has to do with how much he hates the Big 2.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:50
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Kirkman is kind of a piece of poo poo. He massive;y hosed Tony Moore over and tried to keep him from getting a dime of the tv money.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:56
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ecavalli posted:Dwayne McDuffie might disagree.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:56
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Lightning Lord posted:What is it about these guys who get screwed by the Big 2 and then turn around and do the same thing? Todd McFarlane wrote a story about Marvel and DC superheroes being imprisoned by corporations, then he pulls the same poo poo with Neil Gaiman. Kirkman made a video where he cried about how bad the Big 2 are, then he screws Tony Moore in pretty much the same way. Guess they were just mad they weren't the ones doing the loving over. Or Jim Lee, who used to complain about how Marvel expected him to be a company man and toe the line 25 years ago, and now is co-publisher of DC and during the New 52 era complained about writers and artists not being company men and toeing the line.
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Aug 31, 2017 09:40
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Skwirl posted:I don't know that one, although I'm betting Image is probably pretty happy they fell for that trick now. muscles like this! posted:IIRC he lied to them and said that the whole thing was going to build to an alien invasion story. Yeah. Basically his editor just nixed the idea of a zombie comic immediately. Zombies are played out, they don't sell, everyone's sick of them. So Kirkman was like "Oh, well you didn't let me finish! See, turns out the zombies are just part of this alien race's plan to take over earth! It's going to be this big twist, and then the story's going to be about taking earth back from the aliens!" 12 issues in, his editor's like "Man, sales are great, but when are you going to start dropping hints about the whole alien thing?" and Kirkman admitted he made that poo poo up on the spot because he really wanted to do a zombie comic. Lightning Lord posted:Was this also the time when he tricked Tony Moore out of his rightful share of money for co-creating the Walking Dead? Aw, come on. No need to bring the room down.
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Aug 31, 2017 09:49
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Lightning Lord posted:What is it about these guys who get screwed by the Big 2 and then turn around and do the same thing? Todd McFarlane wrote a story about Marvel and DC superheroes being imprisoned by corporations, then he pulls the same poo poo with Neil Gaiman. Kirkman made a video where he cried about how bad the Big 2 are, then he screws Tony Moore in pretty much the same way. Guess they were just mad they weren't the ones doing the loving over. "Hope you never get old enough to become what you rail against". Few people start out with the goal to become The Man, especially in Comic Books, which was for a long time pretty much a part of counter culture. And suddenly you are.
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Aug 31, 2017 10:14
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Lurdiak posted:Aw, come on. No need to bring the room down. I believe Jim Steranko is a big Trump guy nowadays.
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Aug 31, 2017 10:20
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Skwirl posted:Saga takes regular breaks because it takes Fiona Staples longer to draw an issue than Brian K. Vaughn to write one, I like that Saga has started flipping the credits every other arc. Half the time, the covers say "Staples/BKV" and the interior lists Staples first.
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Aug 31, 2017 11:35
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Skwirl posted:I don't know that one, although I'm betting Image is probably pretty happy they fell for that trick now. Probably not. Unless it's changed at some point, Image's sales model means they don't make any more from Walking Dead than they do from anything else other than it's been going on for a decade or whatever.
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Aug 31, 2017 13:49
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Endless Mike posted:Probably not. Unless it's changed at some point, Image's sales model means they don't make any more from Walking Dead than they do from anything else other than it's been going on for a decade or whatever. I know they don't get any of the AMC money, but they still get money off every issue sold, plus I imagine a portion of the trade sales too, which the TV show helps move, isn't Walking Dead still one of their best selling titles? It's almost certainly the most famous independent comic title.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:05
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Skwirl posted:I know they don't get any of the AMC money, but they still get money off every issue sold, plus I imagine a portion of the trade sales too, which the TV show helps move, isn't Walking Dead still one of their best selling titles? It's almost certainly the most famous independent comic title. No they don't. From their FAQ: quote:How does publishing a comic book or graphic novel through Image work?
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Aug 31, 2017 14:28
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If nothing else, the wild success of The Walking Dead encouraged other creators to work with Image.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:55
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And readers to try new titles.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:01
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah. Basically his editor just nixed the idea of a zombie comic immediately. Zombies are played out, they don't sell, everyone's sick of them. So Kirkman was like "Oh, well you didn't let me finish! See, turns out the zombies are just part of this alien race's plan to take over earth! It's going to be this big twist, and then the story's going to be about taking earth back from the aliens!" Then he did a joke ending (to I think issue #100?) where Rick wakes up in a room with all the dead main characters who are cyborgs and they team up to fight the aliens (and also the comic is in color.)
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Sep 1, 2017 00:38
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