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Here you go http://www.mediafire.com/file/yibrve1l1x65e3i/FFd6_v1.3.pdf
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Aug 31, 2017 13:32
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https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/82235/adventure-path-iron-gods Roll20 includes and allows pay to play games on their service. what 
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Aug 31, 2017 15:28
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Nuns with Guns posted:This isn't even going into GM intrusions, which are like someone looked at Fate's compels and decided they should be more arbitrary and bullshit and also happen whenever you roll a natural 1 on a d20.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Pretty much everything about Numenera can be summed up as "FATE D&D done by someone who doesn't get FATE or anything that isn't D20." That also sounds like Far West.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:38
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Arivia posted:https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/82235/adventure-path-iron-gods Do you mean that roll20 has official support for facilitating payment and restricting access? Because pay-to-play-GMing has been a thing for a while now.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:44
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Halloween Jack posted:Pretty much everything about Numenera can be summed up as "FATE D&D done by someone who doesn't get FATE or anything that isn't D20."
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Aug 31, 2017 15:44
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Serf posted:That also sounds like Far West.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Do you mean that roll20 has official support for facilitating payment and restricting access? Because pay-to-play-GMing has been a thing for a while now. No, they say they don't. But why would they support that in general.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:05
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Subjunctive posted:A Thief attacks and sneaks and disarms traps with stealth and skill. You could just as easily say that a Wizard casts spells, no?
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Aug 31, 2017 16:08
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Halloween Jack posted:How can we know? And yet he still hasn't finished that GMing chapter.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:34
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Subjunctive posted:What does a Druid do, or a Bard, or a Cleric? Bar Crow posted:No. Single-function classes suck. I don't want a game with hitstuff fighters, healbot clerics, and where we finally cornered wizards into only doing one wizardly thing. Instead of asking "what does the class do," try the following: - What should no class be able to do? - What one or two things should this class have to rely on allies for? - What is this class's most basic fallback action? - What is the flashiest, coolest, most impactful thing this class should do only occasionally or at great cost? - What should the class do to get from the basic fallback action, to the flashy action? This has a bunch of advantages. It's less boring. It incentivizes teamwork without pushing all complex strategy to the team level, which helps offset the urge to quarterback. It lets you design characters with overlapping design space who still feel very different, because they have to meet different conditions to perform similar actions -- someone who goes berserk or transforms and refills themselves to full health once per fight after getting mad enough and someone who can heal any ally including themselves every turn are very conceptually different. e: The guy who mentioned WoW upthread was on the right track but WoW is still locked into the DPS / Tank / Healer structure and just makes it more complicated to DPS, tank, or heal, which is still pretty bad. e2: A simple way to avoid this monotony is to make your basic action and your ultimate (because that's what I'm talking about, basically) conceptual opposites, and then make most of your intermediary skills designed to facilitate or exploit the use of either your basic ability, your ultimate ability, or both. I'd post examples but I gotta catch a bus, more on this later. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 17:57
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I'm actually amenable to the idea that the Wizard's schtick is "imitate the other classes' schtick." But this only works in an early-edition style D&D game where it's assumed that the game begins and ends at the entrance to the dungeon, so that the wizard has to ration his spells. And then there are things from that era of D&D that you don't want to imitate, like the wizard being totally hapless and vulnerable when they're not casting a spell.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:04
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Single-function classes suck. I don't want a game with hitstuff fighters, healbot clerics, and where we finally cornered wizards into only doing one wizardly thing. Instead of asking "what does the class do," try the following: Yeah, fourth edition was really good.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:05
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Halloween Jack posted:But this only works in an early-edition style D&D game where it's assumed that the game begins and ends at the entrance to the dungeon, so that the wizard has to ration his spells. a whole bunch of game design in D&D would work a lot better if DMs just strained and attrited their players enough.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:10
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I'm distrustful of the idea that something can be so overwhelmingly powerful that you have to limit it when no one else has limited use abilities, but at the same time, weak enough that frontloading it isn't a problem. The 10-minute adventuring day is a response to a resource system that was already clumsy, frustrating, and required a lot of bookkeeping.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:15
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well yeah that's not to say that Vancian casting is particularly great design even in the best of times, but it's certainly not helped by letting players get away with too many rests to begin with.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:21
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The problem is that letting the PCs get away with resting is a natural DM response to knowing that if they do not rest, they will die. When around the next corner might be a bad guy with Flight and Protection From Missiles, you have to run to the schedule of the only guy who can cast Dispel.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:35
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hyphz posted:The problem is that letting the PCs get away with resting is a natural DM response to knowing that if they do not rest, they will die. When around the next corner might be a bad guy with Flight and Protection From Missiles, you have to run to the schedule of the only guy who can cast Dispel. This in turn, is a consequence of D&Ds identity confusion over whether it's supposed to be about a bunch of chuckleheads doing something very foolish because of their greed, or heroes who are hoping to save the day.
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Aug 31, 2017 18:54
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Aug 31, 2017 19:51
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my face is the same
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Aug 31, 2017 19:58
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DalaranJ posted:This in turn, is a consequence of D&Ds identity confusion over whether it's supposed to be about a bunch of chuckleheads doing something very foolish because of their greed, or heroes who are hoping to save the day.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:05
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dwarf74 posted:To be fair, that's also the target audience. What amazes me most is how successful of a niche that's carved. Comparatively, at least. Arivia posted:No, they say they don't. But why would they support that in general. If you're skilled/charismatic/tricky enough to get people to pay to play in your games I don't see the issue with someone trying to do it.  I'm surprised roll20 would want to act as a middleman for that because they'll inevitably have to get involved with payment disputes when a player decides they've been scammed. I guess if they want to handle the unnecessary bother then whatever. It's not like paid GMs will drive hobby GMs out.
Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 20:17
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Paid GMing is why P.T. Barnum was right
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Aug 31, 2017 20:19
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re: The Fury Warrior and MMO rotations, I think that sort of thing works in video games because there's a realtime component and execution requirement involved that makes otherwise fairly boring things interesting. And I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I love playing those sorts of games, but tabletop rpgs don't have that execution or visual spectacle (seriously, watch FFXIV Ninja do their rotation for a minute, it's really pretty, not to mention the various fight-specific spell effects) so it's a lot more boring to have those sort of pre-programmed attack order. Basically, doing a combo in a fighting game feels cool because you're actually doing something that requires dexterity and practice, doing that same combo in a turn-based environment with each move coming out 5-15 realtime minutes apart is much less so. I remember making a monster for a 4e game who had an attack that did a basic thing, and then next turn he could use an attack that only worked if he hit with the previous one but it was a lot stronger, and then a third hit the turn after. It was really exciting to create, I felt like a genius at the time, but when I played it I could tell that doing that for more than a single encounter would have been really really boring and predictable. I think character powers in TTRPGs need to be more flexible and standalone without baked in combos to really be fun for anything more than a handful of combats.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:20
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hyphz posted:The problem is that letting the PCs get away with resting is a natural DM response to knowing that if they do not rest, they will die. When around the next corner might be a bad guy with Flight and Protection From Missiles, you have to run to the schedule of the only guy who can cast Dispel. This is terrible, this is the worst way to design an encounter or a spell system and especially both. When a single class build (full cast progression wizard) becomes essential to survival in a game that has hundreds of possible class builds, then you've seriously messed up your monster design, your encounter design, and your class balance. The fact that 3.X/PF still exists both infuriates and confuses me immensely.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:26
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Dare you enter my magical potion shop?
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Aug 31, 2017 20:27
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Our regular reminder that alignment, for anything more than a personal player aid, is stupid. Related note, is grognards.txt still a thing? This made me think of it.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:32
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Blasphemeral posted:
No with good reason, it led to too much doxxing. Also most of the old grog sources were run dry anyway so it turned into a half dozen posters trying to all post the same thing.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:34
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Countblanc posted:re: The Fury Warrior and MMO rotations, I think that sort of thing works in video games because there's a realtime component and execution requirement involved that makes otherwise fairly boring things interesting. And I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I love playing those sorts of games, but tabletop rpgs don't have that execution or visual spectacle (seriously, watch FFXIV Ninja do their rotation for a minute, it's really pretty, not to mention the various fight-specific spell effects) so it's a lot more boring to have those sort of pre-programmed attack order. What do you think of the Spellbound Kingdom combat system?
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Aug 31, 2017 20:40
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Kwyndig posted:This is terrible, this is the worst way to design an encounter or a spell system and especially both. When a single class build (full cast progression wizard) becomes essential to survival in a game that has hundreds of possible class builds, then you've seriously messed up your monster design, your encounter design, and your class balance. The fact that 3.X/PF still exists both infuriates and confuses me immensely. It exists because it's fun.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:43
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Countblanc posted:re: The Fury Warrior and MMO rotations, I think that sort of thing works in video games because there's a realtime component and execution requirement involved that makes otherwise fairly boring things interesting. And I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I love playing those sorts of games, but tabletop rpgs don't have that execution or visual spectacle (seriously, watch FFXIV Ninja do their rotation for a minute, it's really pretty, not to mention the various fight-specific spell effects) so it's a lot more boring to have those sort of pre-programmed attack order. MMO rotations are incredibly tedious and bad in MMOs too lol For players, multi-action turns help with this. Consider how CCGs usually have action economies that ramp up the longer combat lasts, creating a natural tendency to destabilize as more and more powerful options (or combinations of simpler options) become possible. For monsters, group initiative order and designing them to back each other up, rather than making any single monster too complicated (barring solos, maybe) lets you recreate this and gives your players a clear way to diminish the enemies' capabilities -- kill the minions that perform the first half of a combo with the boss and the combo doesn't work any more. (Or break the body part off the big monster, etc.) Combat where monster abilities start strong and are steadily worn down, while player abilities start out strained but ramp up, also creates an atmosphere where the players feel like underdogs even though the system is ultimately stacked in their favor, which is desirable in the dominant model for most tabletop RPGs these days (although it's not the only model possible.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 20:46
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Kwyndig posted:No with good reason, it led to too much doxxing. Also most of the old grog sources were run dry anyway so it turned into a half dozen posters trying to all post the same thing.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:49
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grassy gnoll posted:What do you think of the Spellbound Kingdom combat system? I actually know nothing about it, what's it like? Tuxedo Catfish posted:MMO rotations are incredibly tedious and bad in MMOs too lol Maybe, I disagree that they're inherently bad though. They're something for your fingers to do while you engage with other mechanics of the game, and they're something you can get better at over time. It's a basic level of mastery sure but FFXIV has taught me that even games that literally light up what button you should press next and give you over two seconds to press it are still mentally or physically taxing for a notable percentage of players.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:50
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Halloween Jack posted:like an old dude writing 5,000 pages of wilderness encounter tables. This dude sounds badass
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Aug 31, 2017 20:51
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I liked the rotation system and the combos on the first Xenoblade game. Is there a combo based class on strike?
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Aug 31, 2017 20:57
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I worked on one for the expansion but ultimately hated it so it never made it past a very lovely first draft. Its spiritual successor is floating around on my google drive but also isn't really polished so I haven't done anything with it.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:02
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Also xenoblade chronicles was sick and I love how the characters are all friends who love complementing each other in battle, it feels very Classic TTRPG Party
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Aug 31, 2017 21:03
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Countblanc posted:Maybe, I disagree that they're inherently bad though. They're something for your fingers to do while you engage with other mechanics of the game, and they're something you can get better at over time. It's a basic level of mastery sure but FFXIV has taught me that even games that literally light up what button you should press next and give you over two seconds to press it are still mentally or physically taxing for a notable percentage of players. If I'm being honest about my biases, "a forum for exhibiting mastery" is basically my definition of a good game. It's not a complete definition, there are unrelated factors that can take a masterful game and sabotage it, but it's definitely the main axis.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:08
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Kwyndig posted:This is terrible, this is the worst way to design an encounter or a spell system and especially both. When a single class build (full cast progression wizard) becomes essential to survival in a game that has hundreds of possible class builds, then you've seriously messed up your monster design, your encounter design, and your class balance. The fact that 3.X/PF still exists both infuriates and confuses me immensely. They continue to exist because they deliver exactly what their fans want and nothing else. They are safe, familiar systems that are also bad.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:30
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| # ? May 15, 2024 01:40 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm distrustful of the idea that something can be so overwhelmingly powerful that you have to limit it when no one else has limited use abilities, but at the same time, weak enough that frontloading it isn't a problem. "Fighters have no dailies" is for my money the most succinct criticism of 5e.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:33
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