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"Livestock" will be their raw food.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:08
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I'm mad but probably not for the same reason you guys are mad. but how could a person need more than one working dog, ever
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Aug 31, 2017 21:15
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one of my favorite parts of that story is where they debarked 1 out of the 6 dogs and that one dog getting debarked was apparently enough for a cougar to carry off half a dozen sheep people, what the gently caress are your dogs actually even doing??? If your dogs can't guard a half-acre a piece maybe you need a better solution to your predator problems than dogs!
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Aug 31, 2017 21:17
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Working dogs aren't real things. They're just pets that bark. That's pretty clearly a puppy mill.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:17
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Did you guys actually spend any amount of time looking up the farm and their story? They're a small fiber farm that raises angora goats and purebred sheep as well as the TMs as LGDs. The sheep they raise are valuable and appear to sell out every year. They show them at fairs and run classes at their farm. It's a small farm but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to have dogs protecting their flock. When you only have a dozen sheep every single lamb counts. If I were the neighbors I'd be happy to know there were dogs on guard against the apparent hoards of cougars roaming the area. Also why is it wrong to breed working dogs to sell to other people who need working dogs? This isn't someone churning out disease ridden newfiedoodles, this is a farmer protecting their flock and helping others protect theirs.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:17
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serious question: if you think the way LGDs work is to bark until someone shows up with a gun, how was this behavior developed in their native countries where they roam over loving miles of mountains day and night
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Aug 31, 2017 21:18
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Did you guys actually spend any amount of time looking up the farm and their story? They're a small fiber farm that raises angora goats and purebred sheep as well as the TMs as LGDs. The sheep they raise are valuable and appear to sell out every year. They show them at fairs and run classes at their farm. It's a small farm but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to have dogs protecting their flock. When you only have a dozen sheep every single lamb counts. If I were the neighbors I'd be happy to know there were dogs on guard against the apparent hoards of cougars roaming the area. They live on 3.5 acres. The average farm in america is 430 acres. "Small" farms in the 100 acre range don't need guard dogs, why does a 3.5 acre farm need six of them?
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Aug 31, 2017 21:18
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Did you even look at petfinder? There's about a million great pyrenees and anatolian shepherds in need of homes Instant Jellyfish
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Aug 31, 2017 21:18
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Mirthless posted:They live on 3.5 acres. an LGD is not a "guard dog"
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Aug 31, 2017 21:19
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"Our farm is 1/100th the size of a normal farm" is not a phrase that should be in the vocabulary of somebody who has six dogsWheats posted:an LGD is not a "guard dog" Livestock Guardian Dog
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Aug 31, 2017 21:20
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Mirthless posted:"Our farm is 1/100th the size of a normal farm" is not a phrase that should be in the vocabulary of somebody who has six dogs yes, that's what it stands for. you're missing out on the key, though: the word livestock. they are bonded with and to the livestock. they aren't "guarding" the farm. they're protecting the animals they have been raised with from predators (which show up on farms under 100 acres). edit: why are you so hung up on the acreage? a farm isn't a fish tank, you can manage multiple animals on that amount of land with minimal issues if you know what you're doing.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:22
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to be honest they sound like hoarders to me with so many animals on such a small piece of land.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:22
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Wheats posted:yes, that's what it stands for. you're missing out on the key, though: the word livestock. they are bonded with and to the livestock. they aren't "guarding" the farm. they're protecting the animals they have been raised with from predators (which show up on farms under 100 acres). ...Yes, and? I wasn't disputing this. I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to their role as livestock guards. I keep referencing the size of the farm, because, how many sheep can you fit on 3.5 acres? Fluffy Bunnies posted:to be honest they sound like hoarders to me with so many animals on such a small piece of land. I cannot imagine having six dogs on 3.5 acres of land let alone 6 dogs and enough goats, chickens and sheep to consider your plot a "farm" These people are absolutely hoarders
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Aug 31, 2017 21:23
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Mirthless posted:...Yes, and? I wasn't disputing this. I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to their role as livestock guards. You probably shouldn't have any on 3.5 acres.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:24
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Mirthless posted:...Yes, and? I wasn't disputing this. I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to their role as livestock guards. idk, maybe ask one of the multiple people with working farms you're arguing with
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Aug 31, 2017 21:24
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Wheats posted:idk, maybe ask one of the multiple people with working farms you're arguing with OK. How many LGDs do you need for 3.5 acres of land? Everything I found on google said "You only need 3-5 dogs to manage 1,000-2,000 sheep"
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Aug 31, 2017 21:26
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Mirthless posted:They live on 3.5 acres. The average farm size in America is 430 acres because they are all owned by massive agricultural corporations because poo poo like this prevents people from running small farms. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/16/the-decline-of-the-small-american-family-farm-in-one-chart/ What makes a sub 100 acre farm unworthy of protection? Do coyotes get that memo that small farms are off limits? If your predator population is so intense that you need 6 dogs to protect your flock why can't you have 6 dogs? Also how do you know that some of those dogs aren't old and retired? Should they get rid of any dog past working age? Mirthless posted:OK. How many LGDs do you need for 3.5 acres of land? Shockingly google isn't run by farmers. The amount of dogs you need varies based on your local predator population as well as your flock size and property size. I know plenty of farmers with ~20-30 animals and 4-6 LGDs protecting them. I have about 60 sheep and don't need a dog guarding them simply because I don't have the predator population that necessitates it. Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 21:26
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Wheats posted:idk, maybe ask one of the multiple people with working farms you're arguing with mwwaheheheheheeehsahahahahehehehaheee I taste copper and love in my heart and soul. Mirthless posted:...Yes, and? I wasn't disputing this. I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to their role as livestock guards. I completely agree with you
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Aug 31, 2017 21:27
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The issue is that they have so many dogs in one small fenced off area. The roaming mountain dog's job is to bark loudly and scare off predators. It can run like hell if that does not work so it does not get mauled to death, It's not a 100% guarding method, if you want that then you need a Shepard with the dog. You keep a dog in a fenced off area and a predictor attacks then the poor dog is hosed as it can't get away. If you keep your dog like that then your arse better be out there guarding the livestock with them, or be able to get ready to get to them if they go off barking. Another issue I have with this is fights. What they have there is an actual pack, in a relatively small area, left alone unsupervised. No way those dogs don't fight.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:28
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Instant Jellyfish posted:The average farm size in America is 430 acres because they are all owned by massive agricultural corporations because poo poo like this prevents people from running small farms. It's not even accurate to call it a "sub 100 acre farm". It's a 3.5 acre farm. You can fit 650 acres in a square mile. It's a house with a big yard. The court system of Oregon agrees. Why do they need 6 dogs to guard 3.5 acres? Where do they live? The X-Zone? The Nether Dimension? Did they build their farm on a hellmouth?
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Aug 31, 2017 21:30
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learnincurve posted:The issue is that they have so many dogs in one small fenced off area. I agree that they definitely have a dog pack and I think it's very very dangerous.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:30
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I wouldn't have any dogs out guarding a farm that small myself if my property were on it. I'd set up sensors/cameras/alarms around the perimeter and go out there with a shotgun if they went off.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:36
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learnincurve posted:I wouldn't have any dogs out guarding a farm that small myself if my property were on it. I'd set up sensors/cameras/alarms around the perimeter and go out there with a shotgun if they went off. I think that's a great idea. I don't see any reason for farms under 100+ acres to have dogs.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:37
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gently caress small farmers who have jobs and don't spend every moment of the day staring at their animals, people shoving 20,000 cows in a 100 acre feedlot and expecting to lose a quarter of them are the real farmers.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:42
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i want to die
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Aug 31, 2017 21:42
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Instant Jellyfish posted:gently caress small farmers who have jobs and don't spend every moment of the day staring at their animals, people shoving 20,000 cows in a 100 acre feedlot and expecting to lose a quarter of them are the real farmers. well yeah Supercondescending posted:i want to die tell woop I said clip
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Aug 31, 2017 21:43
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here i made a short list of reasons why a small farm owner might have six dogs: -one or more are nearing retirement -one or more are from a previous litter and are going to be sold to other farmers as finished dogs -they have valuable genetics from proven working lines and the owners want to continue to safekeep those genetics -they have the resources to provide for multiple working pairs while rotating them on and off duty- -they have high enough predation rates that they need six dogs -the predators in their area are large and aggressive enough that multiple dogs are required for their own safety when working -they didn't have time to breed six hundred and sixty more before the next sacrifice to Satan EDIT: if you go and look at their website, they say they have two dogs nearing retirement (at 13 years of age, something that speaks to their knowledge of their working dogs) and one who is only just coming up at a year old. probably just lies to cover their highly lucrative six-dog puppy mill. Wheats fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 21:44
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I know more about farming than farmers bc I use teh gugle
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Aug 31, 2017 21:45
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Wheats posted:here i made a short list of reasons why a small farm owner might have six dogs: -Uh these dogs don't "retire". They can't. They're working dogs. Working dogs die working. -Finished for what? Walking around their backyard? -There's no such thing as 'working" lines unless they're registered and these dogs weren't -Dogs don't work in pairs -obviously they don't because a few dogs isn't going to do anything to keep their sheep safe -I really doubt that, it's oregon, they really don't have a lot of predators up there -funny
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Aug 31, 2017 21:47
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:I think that's a great idea. I don't see any reason for farms under 100+ acres to have dogs. Where I am now in Derbyshire, England (I'm Australian btw) we don't have livestock guarding dogs at all on farms. There are very murderous foxes but the govement compensates farmers for any sheep killed by them. So we just have herding dogs and very special homing sheep. In bad weather the sheep will automatically herd themselves to specific safe spots so the farmer can just roll up and feed/count them. The farmer knows which exact area each group of sheep will have come from, so if the count is wrong then they know where to go out to with the dog looking for the missing ones.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:47
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Instant Jellyfish posted:The average farm size in America is 430 acres because they are all owned by massive agricultural corporations because poo poo like this prevents people from running small farms. what's funny about this link is that in the golden age of the small american farm the average american farm was still 200 acres at the peak of the great depression it was still a hundred I do not dispute a small farmer may have need of a guard dog, I dispute that 3.5 acres qualifies as a farm or that there would ever be any reason to keep six dogs on 3.5 acres Mirthless fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 21:48
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:-Uh these dogs don't "retire". They can't. They're working dogs. Working dogs die working. Shut up fluffy bunnies
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Aug 31, 2017 21:49
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learnincurve posted:Where I am now in Derbyshire, England (I'm Australian btw) we don't have livestock guarding dogs at all on farms. There are very murderous foxes but the govement compensates farmers for any sheep killed by them. So we just have herding dogs and very special homing sheep. In bad weather the sheep will automatically herd themselves to specific safe spots so the farmer can just roll up and feed/count them. The farmer knows which exact area each group of sheep will have come from, so if the count is wrong then they know where to go out to with the dog looking for the missing ones. that sounds great Supercondescending posted:Shut up fluffy bunnies should I because I think I'll end up ripping someone's flesh through their anus if i do.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:50
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Mirthless posted:what's funny about this link is that in the golden age of the small american farm the average american farm was still 200 acres You should stop
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Aug 31, 2017 21:50
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If you have a plot of land of any size with multiple animals on it and a human isn't monitoring it then gently caress you.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:50
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learnincurve posted:If you have a plot of land of any size with multiple animals on it and a human isn't monitoring it then gently caress you. how many head have you lost to mountain lions in the U.K.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:52
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Mirthless posted:what's funny about this link is that in the golden age of the small american farm the average american farm was still 200 acres since you're so good at google you may want to see what qualifies for a farm.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:54
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okay for realsies: I run a pair of LGDs on my couple acres. My male tried to eat a bear in it's face because the bear was fuckin dumb and came too close to his sheep. A bear was right beside my fence and I have neighbors all around me. The US has some really fun wildlife and 6 dogs (7 now according to their site) for a heavily predatorized 3.5 acres is bottom level appropriate. If my goddamned $$$$$$$ sheep kept getting eaten I'd throw as many dogs as need be at it because you cannot stay up 24/7 and you cannot do endless 12 hour shifts staring and waiting on your porch with a gun that is why we have these dogs to begin with. E: as for how many sheep can you keep on 3.5 acres- I dunno. I haven't seen their land or how it's planted or how it's graded and I don't know anything about their soil quality. If I planted out here and kept my sheep off it for a month and a half, I could probably run 10 ewes, their lambs, and a ram with a little supplementation. That doesn't mean they can and it doesn't mean they can't run more.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:57
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:since you're so good at google you may want to see what qualifies for a farm. My place does, zoned agricultural use and its only like 1.5 acres.
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Aug 31, 2017 21:59
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Mine is 5 acres, zoned agricultural, and 2 or 3 dogs is my minimum
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Aug 31, 2017 22:02
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