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Trabisnikof posted:If you presuppose consensus are a requirement all political ideas are hosed. Who cares if someone says the Left is dead, you don't have to let them make that choice for you. Asymmetry. Of course consensus isn't a prerequisite, but change comes from movement and at a societal level movement needs numbers. The 'left' may outnumber the fascists overall but if it can't agree on a policy direction and the systemic changes it wants then it's essentially a bunch of small groups. The fascists will be smaller in number but will vote in lock step and - shocking - they don't care about policy because their agenda is based on exclusion not growth. By fighting amongst ourselves - abandoning our action groups that do violence, requiring proof of thought purity etc - we essentially concede the battle to a group that we outnumber by a huge margin. E: removed supposition. squirrelzipper fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 07:15
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Sometimes I fear responding to a Calibanibal post will poof me into another timeline where everything is precisely as whimsical as everything here is poo poo.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:16
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Matsuri posted:What I'm saying is if you would have just either accepted the criticism (because whether you like it or not, they're not wrong) instead of doubling down (multiple times) with the fussy "I'm the REAL victim here" nonsense, this really wouldn't have been an issue. Considering the current narrative is that everything makes me look like I fool now I won't lie, I haven't really considered much past where Koalas stated her case (good post) and r.y.f.s.o said I should just leave you guys to devour yourselves as much else than just poo poo-posting. When you approach everything with the force of a sledgehammer and like it's the worst thing imaginable and try to represent a poster in the worst possible light every single solitary time it's kind of hard to take every bit of it seriously in the long run. You want to know what most of these posts actually look like to me. How loving dare you keep posting and work some subtle jabs in here and there instead of just rolling over and letting us make useless memes and poo poo all over you in peace. We reserve the sole right to make jabs and digs. It's all just a bunch of rhetoric, noise and labeling to me after a certain point. 
Kale fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 07:16
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n3wt posted:They're ready to gut corbyn the moment he's not political gold with da youf. Decades of labour getting cozy with big business don't just fade away. Well for a start those people would be really offended if they found out you called them "left" and also I'm not sure 'crippled' would be the right way to describe Labour right now
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Sep 2, 2017 07:17
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Kale posted:Considering the current narrative is that everything makes me look like I fool now I won't lie, I haven't really considered much past where Koalas stated her case (good post) and r.y.f.s.o said I should just leave you guys to devour yourselves as much else than just poo poo-posting. When you approach everything with the force of a sledgehammer and like it's the worst thing imaginable and try to represent a poster in the worst possible light every single solitary time it's kind of hard to take every bit of it seriously in the long run. The gently caress Up!
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Sep 2, 2017 07:17
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Also re: anecdotal stuff: both of my parents are Republicans. My mom's sadly a Trumpeter for reasons I still do not understand beyond believing all of the lies against Hillary and the "he tells it like it is, people aren't giving him a fair chance, but LIBERALS are the real violent ones with their riots and violence" poo poo. She hates him but is sadly drunk on the koolaid and I have no idea how to detox her. As for my dad, he's definitely distancing himself from the right wing ever since the election and he's started to see how head-in-rear end insane the GOP is. I think he still considers himself Republican, but I don't know why. I guess it's because "liberal" is kind of a swearword among my family with anyone but... well, me. Realistically though his views are becoming more and more moderate and while it's still not great, it's a start.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:17
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coyo7e posted:Shut Stop loving Attacking Other Users For Five loving Minutes! Try it and see what happens.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:22
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Matsuri posted:Also re: anecdotal stuff: both of my parents are Republicans. im sorry to have to tell you this, but your moms a racist.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:22
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Kilroy posted:Most of the Republicans left in my life fancy themselves "political independents" but I am outing the motherfuckers like it's Secret Hitler. Has there been a single Republican representative at the federal level that hasn't been terrible in the last 30 years? Seriously even "mavericks" like McCain have an overall track record of being unrepentant ghouls. It's been a massive failure for decades so I feel there is very little defense that someone can have that the Republicans are a defendable vote. Their voters are either terrible people, depressingly ignorant, or some combination of the two.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:23
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Leave My rear end Olone!
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Sep 2, 2017 07:24
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I live in the bicycling threads because the only jerk there is namaste faggots, but I still love him. But I lurk this thread all day because I'm a masochist and Trump is a poopoo head.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:25
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Kilroy posted:Leftists largely have put aside their differences, for the most part. And I certainly haven't heard a peep from DSA concern-trolling antifa. Was typing a phone response so missed this - apologies for multi posting. I appreciate this, are we sure that 'liberals' are lost? I don't know and I suspect you're right particularly when it comes to action folks who risk law enforcement reprisals. (E; In retrospect I don't agree, I think the key is in the mass agreeing with sane humane practice) Don't see how we can win at the ballot box without the moderates in the US though, so it's again either divide and lose or, uh, just lose? Not trying to be a dick I get what you're saying, I'm just trying to square the circle over the next 3 years. Or is it over? Have we had too much reality tv and lovely capitalism and just need to start over? E: staring over likely requires bullets and lots of people dying squirrelzipper fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 07:26
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When talking to Republican friends and family and others you know, it's important to remember that it will always be a lot easier to just convince them to not vote than it will be to flip them to the Democrats.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:28
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Dunno if this has been posted yet, but it is some delicious shaudenfreuden. Community boycotts restaurant for donating to David Duke. Yes that David Duke. quote:"“They spread the gossip, they spread it as if it’s truth. All the things they called me: white supremacist, neo-Nazi, KKK — it’s all bullshit,” Grigsby said by phone. “My girlfriend and my former wife were both Chinese.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:29
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I dunno why people are still responding to this dude, when he's just ignoring every serious, and in one case heartfelt, explanation of why many of his viewpoints irritate people intensely.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:30
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El Pollo Blanco posted:I dunno why people are still responding to this dude, when he's just ignoring every serious, and in one case heartfelt, explanation of why many of his viewpoints irritate people intensely. People stupidly feed trolls way too much.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:31
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squirrelzipper posted:Was typing a phone response so missed this - apologies for multi posting. I appreciate this, are we sure that 'liberals' are lost? I don't know and I suspect you're right particularly when it comes to action folks who risk law enforcement reprisals. (E; In retrospect I don't agree, I think the key is in the mass agreeing with sane humane practice) Don't see how we can win at the ballot box without the moderates in the US though, so it's again either divide and lose or, uh, just lose? Not trying to be a dick I get what you're saying, I'm just trying to square the circle over the next 3 years. Or is it over? Have we had too much reality tv and lovely capitalism and just need to start over? We can't start over. There is no fresh start. The world as you see it now is the absolute best we are ever going to get. The left eats itself while the right stands lock step, because it turns out that blind faith and indoctrination really are stronger than reason.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:31
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BardoTheConsumer posted:We can't start over. There is no fresh start. The world as you see it now is the absolute best we are ever going to get. The left eats itself while the right stands lock step, because it turns out that blind faith and indoctrination really are stronger than reason. It's this. People will do whatever they can to avoid having to think of anything beyond their next paycheck. So it'll go until civilization collapses.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:33
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Seriously though, why do white nationalists always have Asian gfs, its literally always true and they're always the ones to bring it up.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:33
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Google Butt posted:im sorry to have to tell you this, but your moms a racist. How very insightful of you  It's surreal really. She doesn't really hold any ire toward any race in particular-- she's very happily married to a black man, my stepdad (though I have NO IDEA where he stands politically, though I kinda wonder if he just nods and smiles when my mom starts spouting her bullshit), and her niece (my cousin) and her kids are all Asian (Korean), but she so gullibly believes any right-wing propaganda and latches onto it without really considering whether it's true or not. She kind of just goes along with what all her friends believe, and they're so far down the rabbit hole they'll suffocate before they ever make it out. I just hope she opens her eyes sometime.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:34
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Queering Wheel posted:When talking to Republican friends and family and others you know, it's important to remember that it will always be a lot easier to just convince them to not vote than it will be to flip them to the Democrats. Why is the United States so deeply partisan anyway? It is just a natural polarization that happens from essentially only ever having two major parties for your entire existence barring that brief flirtation with a Whig and Federalist party? El Pollo Blanco posted:I dunno why people are still responding to this dude, when he's just ignoring every serious, and in one case heartfelt, explanation of why many of his viewpoints irritate people intensely. I can't do much for people if they're irritated by viewpoints I don't actually hold though that's the thing. As I keep insisting that's a problem they'll have to figure out on their own. People also seem upset by me trying to point this out again and again when they keep ignoring the part where I acknowledged my error by insisting I'm somehow digging a "bigger hole" which is also their problem honestly. People also keep insisting now after a very brief moment of acknowledgement that I'm ignoring the part about why my initial post invoked white privilege which again also still seems like their problem if they choose to ignore it. Am I missing anything else cause I still don't know why their still responding about this either?
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Sep 2, 2017 07:34
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squirrelzipper posted:Asymmetry. Of course consensus isn't a prerequisite, but change comes from movement and at a societal level movement needs numbers. The 'left' may outnumber the fascists overall but if it can't agree on a policy direction and the systemic changes it wants then it's essentially a bunch of small groups. The fascists will be smaller in number but will vote in lock step and - shocking - they don't care about policy because their agenda is based on exclusion not growth. By fighting amongst ourselves - abandoning our action groups that do violence, requiring proof of thought purity etc - we essentially concede the battle to a group that we outnumber by a huge margin. That's the fundamental nature of progress. The Left will always be impossible to unify in the same way as the right. The right can always coalesce around the status quo and the child-like worldview of conservative (that is, return the world to when I was a child and my parents were strong and the bad guys weak.) Meanwhile progress is shaped into a multitude of possible futures. If I tried to imagine the leftist utopia in any detail, I would certainly include something too status quo based to satisfy all. That's ok. We don't need our fantasies to overlap to be able to join together when some of our fantasies can become a reality. The American Left is only now truly recovering from the crushing of the 50s-70s. The ideological hold that liberal democracy held in our cultural thought is broken. We can begin to imagine new economies in ernest again. And when one of those economies takes hold it won't matter if we are ideologically pure now, we'll all become adherents soon enough. Kale posted:r.y.f.s.o said I should just leave you guys to devour yourselves as much else than just poo poo-posting. You seemed to have missed a critical part of that post: r.y.f.s.o. posted:Probably the higher percentage of Canadians influencing the overall tone and politeness of the Hockey subforums.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:35
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Mantis42 posted:Seriously though, why do white nationalists always have Asian gfs, its literally always true and they're always the ones to bring it up. They're anime nerds
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Sep 2, 2017 07:35
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PJOmega posted:Dunno if this has been posted yet, but it is some delicious shaudenfreuden. santa cruz doing some good poo poo
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Sep 2, 2017 07:36
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The Glumslinger posted:They're anime nerds Beyond that, I think there is a complex going on about the 'submissive foreign woman' since american women are tainted by the evil of feminism.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:36
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The Republicans in my life are so deep into right wing media, and so thoroughly trained that *all* other media is outright deliberate lies, that they simply aren't exposed to criticism of Trump. They've been propagandized to a level I had previously thought would only be possible under dictatorship or similar conditions.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:36
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Mantis42 posted:Seriously though, why do white nationalists always have Asian gfs, its literally always true and they're always the ones to bring it up. Because they probably are also misogynists and imagine women as weak creatures to bend to their will, and thus want the subservient Asian dream.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:37
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:The Republicans in my life are so deep into right wing media, and so thoroughly trained that *all* other media is outright deliberate lies, that they simply aren't exposed to criticism of Trump. And now realize that's the average republican voter and you'll see why we don't have a chance.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:37
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The Glumslinger posted:They're anime nerds I still see this as a co-opting thing personally. They profess to be anime nerds because they think of it as edgy and counterculture and something the normies would object to. Most of them don't actually seem to know jack poo poo about the whole anime otaku sub-culture thing, they just watch the soft core porn stuff that airs late at night in Japan because again edgy and counter-culture and may offend "normies". archangelwar posted:Because they probably are also misogynists and imagine women as weak creatures to bend to their will, and thus want the subservient Asian dream. That too.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:38
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Kale posted:Stop See that pyramid? You are the base. The foundation.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:39
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coyo7e posted:https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/30/1687619/-How-liberal-attacks-on-Antifa-uphold-white-supremacy There's that attributing views people don't actually hold thing we talked about again. We come right back to it every single time like clockwork and people wonder why I've completely stopped taking this tangent seriously anymore. 
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Sep 2, 2017 07:41
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we get it dude you're the victim
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Sep 2, 2017 07:42
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Kale posted:There's that attributing views people don't actually hold thing we talked about again. We come right back to it every single time like clockwork and people wonder why I've completely stopped taking this tangent seriously anymore. So you no longer hate identify politics because it makes it harder to chat about video games?
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Sep 2, 2017 07:42
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feeling pretty relieved, I didn't see my name in the hate pyramid
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Sep 2, 2017 07:44
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Trabisnikof posted:That's the fundamental nature of progress. The Left will always be impossible to unify in the same way as the right. The right can always coalesce around the status quo and the child-like worldview of conservative (that is, return the world to when I was a child and my parents were strong and the bad guys weak.) I get what you're saying. I don't think we have that kind of time. Unfortunately I think we live in interesting times.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:46
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squirrelzipper posted:I get what you're saying. I don't think we have that kind of time. Unfortunately I think we live in interesting times. Time until? If you mean climate change I understand the attitude but I think we still can mitigate harms regardless. If you mean a right wing police state crushes us all, well yeah that's always the clock we're up against. I wouldn't be shocked if those stressors are part of what shapes more resilient leftist cultures, institutions, and artifacts.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:48
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man it's less about this dude's opinions now and more about their sub-autistic level social skills. source: am diagnosed on the spectrum yet am still embarrassed by his posts.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:50
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Kale posted:Why is the United States so deeply partisan anyway? It is just a natural polarization that happens from essentially only ever having two major parties for your entire existence barring that brief flirtation with a Whig and Federalist party? That's part of it. A lot of the polarization has been caused by very wealthy people who really, really want tax cuts and deregulation. They have created and fine-tuned a very powerful right wing media machine unlike anything in other modern countries, and it hammers this message on a daily basis: Democrats are evil, godless, baby-killing commies who want to tax you to death. The voters who watch this garbage completely buy into it and vote Republican in lockstep, in every election. The left and centrists in the US have little to no answer to this.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:51
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Trabisnikof posted:Time until? Time until climate and ecological changes force large masses of humanity to press up against our current economic system, driving massive disproportionate response from police and military. So, yes?
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Sep 2, 2017 07:53
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attackmole posted:man it's less about this dude's opinions now and more about their sub-autistic level social skills. Explain to me why I'm supposed to greet people attributing views to me I don't actually hold and generally being hostile on what ultimately approached a comedic "you can't actually be serious?" level to me at points with the graciousness and enthusiasm of social climber hosting a dinner party? Trabisnikof posted:So you no longer hate identify politics because it makes it harder to chat about video games? Sure. Whatever bro. You got it, that's what this is about totally 100%. Why would I lie to you?
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Sep 2, 2017 07:53
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