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moths posted:Necromunda is coming back but OK let's be mad about paying $25 to play it the old way. I'm not sure what the you're talking about, but this reeks of "we can't allow anyone to ever be negative of GW ever". I don't think anyone has complained at all about a price yet. Hell, if I could just pick up a $25 book with the full rules and get playing while avoiding having to buy the starter set, I'd be happy as a clam. All we were getting at is that a self contained box that requires additional rules supplements to be a full game isn't what we'd want in a "return to Necromunda". But again we don't know that that's how it's going to be packaged. It's idle speculation based on what they did with Blood Bowl. For all we know it will be more like SW:A where they have the full book as a standalone product in addition to the box game. I think everyone would be satisfied with that. And seeing as how that's the most recent thing Specialist Games did, we can hold out hope that that's how they'll approach Necromunda. The thing of it is though, I don't want to play old Necromunda. It's still a 25 year old system with warts and it's much harder to get people to play a game when it's not being officially supported. It's like old editions of 40k or Fantasy. People want to play a game when they know that a company is going to be putting out new rules and models for it regularly. I'm happy to give this new Necromunda a go, I just don't want a silly barrier to entry. Just because I'm being critical doesn't mean I'm angry. It's an internet discussion forum and I'm posting a wishlist while GW slowly reveals details. Don't read too much into it. Shadin posted:Ehhhh. I see what you're getting at, but the Specialist Games definitely attract a crowd that aren't necessarily war gamers. They're basically trying to make all the games complete out of the box experiences, like Space Hulk. But hey, if it's not for you it's not for you, people have been playing Necromunda for years without having this new shiny edition. The thing with Space Hulk though is that it really is self-contained. The recent release is actually kind of annoying because there's no reason for the models in it to be as elaborate as they are. They were quick enough to assemble and were basically snap fit, but you had to cut them from the sprue and clean them up and they still don't fit on the tiles all that well. Blood Bowl and Necromunda are much larger in scope and design, require just as much prep work before the first game, and it's a disservice to those games to try to boil them down to a two-faction engagement with no progression (assuming Necromunda follows BB and not SW:A). But again we don't know. The rules in Necromunda could be complete, with all factions and campaign rules. If that ends up being the only way to get the rules, I'll just buy the starter and sell off the models. quote:I'm not sure what the prices are across the pond, but they sell the Blood Bowl base rulebook here in EPUB for $7.99. The combo of base rulebook and Death Zone Season One digital is $14.99. I just have a smartphone so for me physical copies are less cumbersome than PDFs, but that's on me. It's nice to see that there is an alternative way to get the rules, but it would be cool if it was a single file that you didn't have to swap between, but that's probably functionally the same as returning to a table of contents and picking the section you want.
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Sep 3, 2017 03:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:I'm not sure what the you're talking about, but this reeks of "we can't allow anyone to ever be negative of GW ever". For a few years after SG went away, they distributed free PDFs of the complete Necromunda 2e rulebooks. These weren't the 20 year old ones, they were the newer Specialist Games version that didn't use templates and had ugly Y2K miniatures. (The red cover with the Orlock pointing a gun down from a walkway.) GW is absolutely a flawed company, but you're setting your expectations way beyond what anyone should expect from any game company in 2017. It would be nice to get all the gangs, scenarios, and 3d terrain rules. Just like it would be nice to get all the X-Wing cards and rules in one box, all the Bolt Action factions in the core book, or all the model-specific rules for the Batman skirmish in a book. Nobody does that anymore, the industry standard has shifted miles away from it. I don't mean to come off like GW is doing us a favor by selling us more stuff! And I agree that it's a super frustrating sales model, but it's completely how it works now: If you buy a two-player starter of anything, you only get rules for the two factions in the box. Dark Imperium, Warmahordes, Flames of War, X-Wing, Guild Ball, just about every big title starter I can think of. (Maybe not DZC? And Bolt Action had abbreviated lists.) If they're smart, there'll be a stand-alone book. (And it's very likely there will be!) It's just silly to get preemptively salty over unreasonable expectations, there's no need to set yourself up for disappointment.
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Sep 3, 2017 04:50
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moths posted:For a few years after SG went away, they distributed free PDFs of the complete Necromunda 2e rulebooks. These weren't the 20 year old ones, they were the newer Specialist Games version that didn't use templates and had ugly Y2K miniatures. (The red cover with the Orlock pointing a gun down from a walkway.) Having more cards or models for sale isn't the same thing. Nobody is expecting everything in one box. But imagine if you got an x-wing starter and then you went out and bought some extra minis, only to find that you can't play with those new minis until you buy another rulebook. AFAIK x-wing doesn't have rulebooks like that, just expansion kits with models and cards, right? The rules for any minis come with the minis. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 05:03
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Blood Bowl teams have their rules in their box, so that you can play with them in case you haven't bought Death Zone. I'd imagine Necromunda will follow the same model as Blood Bowl
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Sep 3, 2017 05:37
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A few weeks ago a friend of mine passed away, and he had asked me to take care of his board games and miniatures collection. I've got a lot of experience with board games, but the miniatures end of things is a bit tough for me to evaluate, price-wise. I'm still working on taking pictures of all the 40k stuff, but I was wondering if anyone could provide a general consensus on how much this Blood Bowl stuff might be worth: Humans:  Orks:  High Elves?  Larger group of High Elves?  Viking dudebros?  Wood Elves?  He's also go the Skaven and Dwarves boxes, but they are still sealed so I should have an easier time pricing those. Any help is appreciated!
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Sep 3, 2017 05:56
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moths posted:For a few years after SG went away, they distributed free PDFs of the complete Necromunda 2e rulebooks. These weren't the 20 year old ones, they were the newer Specialist Games version that didn't use templates and had ugly Y2K miniatures. (The red cover with the Orlock pointing a gun down from a walkway.) I'm not nearly as salty as I'm coming across. I said I didn't know what you were talking about to the first half of your statement not to the latter. I'm aware of the old PDFs, but it's as I said, getting people to play an unsupported version of a game when there's a new release is nearly impossible. I also don't think the industry has moved as far as you think. X-Wing is its own model, so comparing it to other games is a mistake. Dropfleet Commander's 2 player set comes with the full book and rules for all current factions. Dropzone does as well. Bolt Action has 5 factions in its main book which is included in the two player set, it then also has campaign, theatre, and army books to expand on that. Beyond the Gates of Antares has two different starter sets, one with a mini-rulebook and one with the full rule book, and they're priced accordingly. I don't know if the mini-book has faction lists in it or not, but you can buy a bundle that is just the mini-rulebook and the full rulebook. Mantic of course includes several factions in even their mini books. They've since added factions to Kings of War and will continue to do so even without model support. I'm under the impression that there will be some revised books in the future that start combining things. But Deadzone and Warpath have full faction lists in all of their respective books. And of course there's Osprey and their books that contain full rules (though these products are scaled differently than a "full" wargame) and usually multiple factions, plus with Frostgrave they've added units and new campaigns. I can't speak to other games as I don't have much first hand experience, but I was under the impression that PP included almost all of its rules in some kind of an app (but I honestly don't know how it works), Infinity and Dark Age are free, and Guildball has all the rules and paper cutouts for free on its website if you wanted to get playing right away without spending a dime on anything but ink and paper. I said in an above post that I don't mind expansions and a good game should have them. I said I was specifically annoyed at falsely generating expansions by taking extant rules and separating them into individual books when they had been previously available together. Again we really don't know what Necromunda is going to look like. If it's a whole new system, they might not be able to include the Outlanders factions into the main book and I guess I'd be fine with that if the factions included are balanced and fully fleshed out with new custom weapon options as hinted at in that press release. But if it's like Blood Bowl where the 2 player set solely has rules for those two gangs and then I have to buy another book to get Orlock and Van Saars, I'll be annoyed. We don't know yet though.
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Sep 3, 2017 05:57
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Shadin posted:I'm not sure what the prices are across the pond, but they sell the Blood Bowl base rulebook here in EPUB for $7.99. The combo of base rulebook and Death Zone Season One digital is $14.99. Well, I didn't know that, but I'm a Luddite when it comes to game rules and only want to use physical books.
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Sep 3, 2017 09:10
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TacoNight posted:If you have to glue the little plastic people together, it isn't for board gamers If its like BB you don't have to glue the figs, they'll fit together with plugs.
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Sep 3, 2017 12:36
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Big McHuge posted:A few weeks ago a friend of mine passed away, and he had asked me to take care of his board games and miniatures collection. I've got a lot of experience with board games, but the miniatures end of things is a bit tough for me to evaluate, price-wise. I'm so sorry to hear about your friend.  I'm not super familiar with the other teams, but the Humans and Orks are from the latest box set of Blood Bowl, and I've noticed people selling painted versions for $60 or so (excluding the Pro Painted people trying to get hundreds of dollars). If there are no bites you can almost always get the MSRP of $35 for the team if it's painted decently, and it looks like your friend's is.
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Sep 3, 2017 12:56
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Zaphod42 posted:Having more cards or models for sale isn't the same thing. Nobody is expecting everything in one box. But imagine if you got an x-wing starter and then you went out and bought some extra minis, only to find that you can't play with those new minis until you buy another rulebook. AFAIK x-wing doesn't have rulebooks like that, just expansion kits with models and cards, right? The rules for any minis come with the minis. X-Wing is actually the worst distribution model in the industry, because the rules that they bundle with models aren't restricted to that model, or even that faction. Which means Imperial players still need to buy ships they don't want just to get the cards. I'll take a codex and normal rulebooks every day of the week over that poo poo, at least when GW lovingly rapes me I don't have to become an eBay Power Seller on the side just to fence the truckload of extra plastic I have from trying to get a complete rules set.
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Sep 3, 2017 13:51
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moths posted:GW is absolutely a flawed company, but you're setting your expectations way beyond what anyone should expect from any game company in 2017. It would be nice to get all the gangs, scenarios, and 3d terrain rules. Just like it would be nice to get all the X-Wing cards and rules in one box, all the Bolt Action factions in the core book, or all the model-specific rules for the Batman skirmish in a book. Nobody does that anymore, the industry standard has shifted miles away from it. Dark Imperium has the no-poo poo rulebook in it, so it does have all the "scenarios and 3d terrain rules." Just because you're selling a two people starter it doesn't mean you can't/don't need to include the full rulebook. BB release would be like, dunno, buying Dark Imperium and only getting the main rules and Open Warfare or whatever scenarios when most people play Maelstrom or whatever.
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Sep 3, 2017 14:04
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JcDent posted:Dark Imperium has the no-poo poo rulebook in it, so it does have all the "scenarios and 3d terrain rules." Just because you're selling a two people starter it doesn't mean you can't/don't need to include the full rulebook. BB release would be like, dunno, buying Dark Imperium and only getting the main rules and Open Warfare or whatever scenarios when most people play Maelstrom or whatever. Dark Imperium is also a starter box for Warhammer 40k proper, not a specialist board game, and is $160 as opposed to the $99 retail of Blood Bowl. Also the rulebook they give you in Dark Imperium doesn't have the rules for the included models, that's in the separate rulebooks for the Primaris and Death Guard that are also included. So you could get the Blood Bowl box and Death Zone for less than Dark Imperium and you would still have two rulebooks to reference, and with Dark Imperium you'd still need terrain to play on whereas Blood Bowl has the pitch board included. I agree that GW is far from perfect, but let's at least compare apples to apples.
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Sep 3, 2017 14:56
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Shadin posted:I agree that GW is far from perfect, but let's at least compare apples to apples. Why can't you allow anyone to ever be negative of GW ever?
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Sep 3, 2017 15:41
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Indolent Bastard posted:You are far from reasonable. You are actually mostly insufferable which is why I have you on ignore and only occasionally click to see what bile/drivel you are puking up. I'm going to swirly you and weld you into a locker you fuckin nerd
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Sep 3, 2017 15:44
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Why can't you allow anyone to ever be negative of GW ever? Haha, I don't know, man. My broke brain just goes right on the defensive whenever someone sullies the honor of m'lady Gaymes Workshoppe. Now I'm going to put you on ignore like the unreasonable, insufferable twat that you are. Seriously though, I do get the complaint. People make the same argument against FFG on their LCG products, how the core sets don't have a full playset of the cards. It's because they want the core set to be a standalone product in its own right that you can dive down the rabbit hole if you so choose. I would honestly love a Blood Bowl Xtreme Super Bowl edition that just assumed that you were going to go as far with it as humanly possible, but what would the cost be vs how many people may not grab it at that higher cost (that's FFG's argument too, the core sets are made to be $39.99 as a sweet spot). However since we don't know anything really about the distribution model, we can wrap this up as a Wait and See moment. I just feel like those that didn't like how BB did it are probably going to be disappointed, because that's how the market seems to be swinging, especially as designer tabletop gaming becomes more mainstream than it's basically ever been in nerd history and everyone's trying to sell to people that may not have ever heard of your product before.
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Sep 3, 2017 16:02
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So, what's the next thing to be hype about...
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Sep 3, 2017 19:24
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JcDent posted:So, what's the next thing to be hype about... Adeptus Titanicus sometime early next year, probably more Warhammer Quest stuff.
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Sep 3, 2017 20:11
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SteelMentor posted:Adeptus Titanicus sometime early next year, probably more Warhammer Quest stuff. Have they mentioned anything about WHQ? I was a bit bummed that the last one was a 1vMany mechanic.
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Sep 3, 2017 21:00
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It's a Finally Finish Painting Space Hulk holiday weekend. Here's my test Genestealer WIP: 
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Sep 4, 2017 13:35
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 Here's my old school Escher Army. I thought about taking some good pictures but they really aren't that good looking. This is how I got started on miniature gaming. I built and painted model cars in middle school and some of my friends started playing 40K. They sold me on Necromunda with "You only need to paint these 8 or 10 guys" and this is what I ended up with. Then I quickly had a huge 2nd Ed Tryanid Swarm and two Blood Bowl teams. I don't have those any more though. They guy I played Blood Bowl against the other day has an unpainted old school Chaos Dwarf team he doesn't and I'm going to see if I've got anything to trade him for them. Or I'll buy him a gift card for our lgs. I'm happy to keep throwing other minis at him until he thinks it's fair but I'm not sure how much cash would be fair. Anyone know what an old Chaos Dwarf team goes for? I don't want to rip him off.
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Sep 4, 2017 15:04
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That Plasma Heavy is worth a ridiculous sum.
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Sep 4, 2017 15:38
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If you want to cash in sell now, it wont be long before no one wants your trash metals.
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Sep 4, 2017 16:01
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I am really excited to finally get to build a full Escher gang, but I am pretty sure everyone else is too. I really hope we get two more kits beyond the starter box ones fairly quickly.
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Sep 4, 2017 16:14
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Admiral Crackbar posted:If you want to cash in sell now, it wont be long before no one wants your trash metals. And it wouldn't surprise me if GW do a "Made For Order" run on any surviving Necromunda moulds, like they have with some Blood Bowl teams.
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Sep 4, 2017 16:16
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I wasn't clear about that. I'm not cashing out my Escher, I'm just going to add to them with the new plastics. I don't have as much time to paint as I did in high school so my painted crap is worth more to me now, even if it's not very good. They're pretty cleanly painted though, even if the paint is too thick, I was pretty good at painting in the lines. It's an okay basecoat if I ever want to spruce them up a bit. I want to trade some other stuff I don't use and haven't painted for some old Chaos Dwarf BB dudes.
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Sep 4, 2017 16:40
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GoodBee posted:I wasn't clear about that. I'm not cashing out my Escher, I'm just going to add to them with the new plastics. I was going to say I really liked the clean, unwashed colours on your Eschers. Absolutely don't sell them. I'll never sell my teenage painted Van Saar. If they do bring the moulds back for a limited edition run I will throw a lot of money at the Van Saar range.
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Sep 4, 2017 17:36
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Shadin posted:X-Wing is actually the worst distribution model in the industry, because the rules that they bundle with models aren't restricted to that model, or even that faction. Which means Imperial players still need to buy ships they don't want just to get the cards. Ugh that is awful. I don't play x-wing so I figured you could only use those cards with those minis.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:07
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Probably not the thread to ask, but I would be interested in the store birthday Marine captain if any of you are near a GW store.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:15
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Zaphod42 posted:Ugh that is awful. I don't play x-wing so I figured you could only use those cards with those minis. It's really terrible, especially since FFG frequently underestimates demand, which results in some ships (and the cards they come with) being out of print for months on end and impossible to find. I could buy a K-wing, if I wanted to drop $80 on ebay for it (MSRP $20). GW is a loving paragon of good business compared to FFG's asinine X-wing model.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:33
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Strobe posted:It's really terrible, especially since FFG frequently underestimates demand, which results in some ships (and the cards they come with) being out of print for months on end and impossible to find. I could buy a K-wing, if I wanted to drop $80 on ebay for it (MSRP $20). It's true. I played X-Wing at the beginning but immediately bailed when it became clear what their model was. I was unfamiliar with 40k at the time, having only really done specialist games and Warhammer based video games, so when I started looking into 40k proper, GW's codex books seemed really fair and reasonable, haha. Buying a rulebook or two for your faction and then only models that you want is down right fair compared to Fantasy Flight's horrible loving practices where they're selling horrible miniature games to unsuspecting boardgamers that are also hardcore Star Wars fans. EDIT: Forgot that my favorite part was a super desirable card being packaged with the huge Corellian Corvette model that was like $90 and couldn't be used in normal games. gently caress cards for rules. If you mention this to an X-Wing player, they tell you to just proxy, but suggest someone download a Codex for 40k and oh my God no GW is just the worst company ever.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:38
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Just use the XWing Squad Builder and print out what you are using.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:36
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Same with Star Wars: Armada. FFG have built a fun game with cool ships and a terrible, exploitative business model. To get the full options for the ships included in the core set, you need to buy that ship again. I am a little disappointed to see that the Underhive box is just sewers and tunnels tiles. This isnt what Necromunda was for me. I wonder, do we know if we need Underhive and Gangwar to play Gangwar? Or is Gangwar + gang boxes going to be playable? Its probably too much to ask. Gangwar really needs to include enough 3d terrain to full a table though. I never bought Shadow War Armageddon, but it looked like no where near enough terrain for a skirmish game in the box. The old cardboard and bulkhead model was excellent. I fear this game will live or die on terrain.
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Sep 4, 2017 23:28
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dmnz posted:I fear this game will live or die on terrain. Oh absolutely. I think this is actually a situation where Mantic could really capitalize and move some of their terrain bundles. A big discount well advertised around the release of Necromunda would be really awesome. (They won't). Personally I am waiting for the reality of Brexit to set in so I can get another full table when the pound totally craters.
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Sep 4, 2017 23:36
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JcDent posted:Probably not the thread to ask, but I would be interested in the store birthday Marine captain if any of you are near a GW store. I too would be interested in this.
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Sep 4, 2017 23:56
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I understand why they went with the tunnels layout; if you are planning on roping people in, it's probably better to go with tiles that are roughly like a game board than a bunch on 3D stuff to build/position. From experience, having too little terrain can really hurt the game, so the tunnels probably prevent that pitfall for newcomers. Hopefully they do produce some suitable terrain.
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Sep 5, 2017 00:35
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Deadzone terrain is probably ideal for getting cheap terrain for Necromunda.
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Sep 5, 2017 00:50
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I feel like there are a lot more options now than when Necromunda first appeared - at that point it seemed like if you didn't have the GW set, you were going to making your own stuff out of cans, cereal boxes, and egg cartons. With the number of games that use terrain levels and focus on more dense combat (Infinity and Deadzone, not to mention all the Osprey stuff) there is simply more demand and market for it. I backed a kickstarter for some laser-cut MDF industrial terrain, and I think that between that and some other select pieces I am going to be in decent shape for most games.
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Sep 5, 2017 00:58
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Yeah there's a ton of MDF scifi terrain available now with gangways and catwalks and ladders and those look OK even unpainted.
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Sep 5, 2017 01:01
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How are the mantic terrain sets anyways? I don't think I've ever seen one in person. Would they be any good for infinity?
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Sep 5, 2017 01:20
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JcDent posted:Probably not the thread to ask, but I would be interested in the store birthday Marine captain if any of you are near a GW store. I’d be interested as well. I checked the other day and my local store’s birthday is in April.
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Sep 5, 2017 02:04
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