Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

If your to dumb to read the axis title then

Oh well

# ? Sep 1, 2017 21:32

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:35

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

namaste faggots posted:

If your to dumb to read the axis title then

Oh well

Convert y dimension to year/year percent change, have normal scale.

# ? Sep 1, 2017 22:16

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

excel garbage enjoy also 2018 value is esimated

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Sep 1, 2017 22:23

Bleu: Jul 19, 2006

That chart's in the article too.

https://betterdwelling.com/canadians-are-borrowing-against-real-estate-at-the-fastest-pace-ever/

# ? Sep 1, 2017 22:23

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canadian-government-lending-1.4272195

quote:

Canadian government is making the right moves in cracking down on lending practices: Neil Macdonald

If you didn't live through the American financial disaster of 2008, then you've probably never seen contagion spread through a residential neighbourhood. I have, and it makes you understand how badly we need protection from stupid, greedy neighbours.

Contagion starts with one neighbour missing mortgage payments, perhaps because the interest rate has shot up and he can't afford it any longer, which means he's been operating on the thinnest margin possible and is probably carrying a ton of debt. He never should have bought the house (or been allowed to buy it) in the first place.

The bank forecloses. The house sits empty. Weeds spread. The pool sits half full of stinking, dirty water. Kids start tossing stones at the windows.

The dilapidation begins to infect the value of the homes around it (banks, apparently, have actual tables measuring the impact on property values of houses based on proximity to a foreclosed property).

Vanishing equity

Some of the neighbours, particularly the ones whose down payment was, say, five per cent, are now squeezed hard. Their little bit of equity vanishes as the value of their homes is dragged down. Some go underwater, meaning they now owe the bank more than the house is worth. Turns out they've been living far beyond their means, too; some owe credit card companies $20,000 or more, at 18 per cent interest.

As values keep dropping, people find themselves $50,000 or $100,000 in the hole, and more lose their homes. Some just walk away, preferring bankruptcy to unrepayable debt. "Jingle keys," they call it in America, after the sound the house keys make when they're tossed in the mailbox for the bank to collect.

Now there are four, five, or six foreclosed houses on every street. In poorer neighbourhoods, thieves strip copper piping from empty buildings. At this point, even the neighbours who have lots of equity, who have sacrificed and paid the mortgage and made repairs and generally behaved virtuously, are in deep trouble, severely punished for the irresponsibility of others.

They realize everything is beyond their control, and always was. We are all connected to one another, something rugged-individualist conservatives choose not to believe, but which a great many Americans discovered is true in the horrible months that followed the autumn of 2008.

Until that point, those conservatives thought "government is the problem, not the solution," and believed in endless deregulation and unchaining free enterprise, and "letting the markets work."

Well, they didn't. Or they did, depending on how you look at it. In the end, millions lost their homes and their jobs. Their government bailed out the banks that caused the disaster, and let the chumps sink.

Which brings us to Canada in the here and now.

Happily, our government is cracking down ever harder on lending practices, doing things Americans would consider socialism.

Ottawa will likely begin demanding that even borrowers who arrive at the table with 20 per cent or more down be able to prove they can withstand an increase in interest rates of 200 basis points. (Chris Wattie/Reuters)

Since 2008, Ottawa has ended 40-year amortizations for insured mortgages, bringing them down to 35 years and then, in 2012, to 25. It began requiring more skin in the game from the borrower, meaning higher down payments, and it forced banks to raise the credit bar.

It banned mortgage insurance on homes worth more than $1 million. It began drastically shrinking the number of borrowers who buy government insurance on their debt � the people who put down less than 20 per cent.

Now, Ottawa is going further: it will likely begin demanding that even borrowers who arrive at the table with 20 per cent or more down be able to prove they can withstand an increase in interest rates of 200 basis points. Rules will be particularly stringent in volatile markets.

Realtors are angry, predicting a drop in sales and prices.

But the rest of us should be happy little clams. Comforted, even. I am. Let sales and prices drop. Good.

Because, simply put, the situation in some Canadian cities is nuts, and the virtuous need protection from the stupid and greedy, and the only entity that can offer that is the government.

Mortgage rates up1:59

Benjamin Tal, deputy chief economist for the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, points out that in Toronto, the average home price rose 25 per cent last year. "It's not a stretch to think it could drop by the same amount this year."

If that happens, someone who bought a million-dollar home last year in Toronto (which is about the average price now), and who put down $250,000, would have precisely no equity left. And interest rates are rising.

No wonder the government wants that extra stress test. Kill the contagion before it can begin.

The federal measures will mean fewer mortgages, says Tal, but "we do want a boring housing market."

Ballooning personal debt

Consider this: Canadians' level of personal debt is 15 to 20 per cent higher than what Americans were carrying at the time of the 2008 meltdown. We are among the most indebted people on earth.

In cities like Vancouver and Toronto, desperation to get into the housing market has provoked extremely risky behaviour � taking on enormous debt and operating on frighteningly thin margins.

Louis-Philippe Rochon, a professor of economics at Laurentian University, says things are so tight that the Bank of Canada's recent decision to raise interest rates by a puny 25 basis points has rocked some homeowners.

And, he says, "We're talking about nine more increases until we get to a point the central bank thinks is normal" (the rate is now 0.75 per cent; the bank considers 3 per cent to be where interest rates should be in normal economic circumstances).

Rochon argues against such rises, given all our debt. But Christopher Ragan, an equally accomplished economist at McGill University, makes the opposite argument. The economy is coming back, he says, and inflationary pressure must be contained. Raise rates.

So, smart experts disagree, just as they disagree on the importance of the $12 trillion or so (yes, $12 trillion) printed by the world's most important central banks since the 2008 meltdown. That ocean of money has unquestionably fueled the rise of stock markets, and probably real estate markets.

It may also be fueling the next crash.

The truth is no one really knows. Old economic theories have been proven wrong and dumped. We are in unknown territory.

But this much we can all agree upon: the virtuous need protection from the venal.

Bravo to the Canadian government. Bravissimo.

neal mcdonald is easily one of the dumbest 'journalists' in canada

i regret that he hasn't been implicated in a ghomeshi or lang like scandal . defund the cbc

# ? Sep 2, 2017 16:44

dev286: Nov 30, 2006; Let it be all the best.

namaste faggots posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canadian-government-lending-1.4272195

neal mcdonald is easily one of the dumbest 'journalists' in canada

i regret that he hasn't been implicated in a ghomeshi or lang like scandal . defund the cbc

CBC website is basically government funded clickbait at this point. I don't usually side with corporate media but in this instance their objections to CBC using tax dollars to drive up views to their news page has merit.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 17:16

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

A government funded CBC should be providing services that the private market is not. This is not the case, the CBC news site is full of American poo poo news and the network is the same.

They need to tighten up their mandate and not focus on broad market appeal.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 17:58

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

namaste faggots posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canadian-government-lending-1.4272195

neal mcdonald is easily one of the dumbest 'journalists' in canada

i regret that he hasn't been implicated in a ghomeshi or lang like scandal . defund the cbc

Do you have an issue with the column or just the author personally? The gist of his article - that loose lending standards have consequences and things are out of control - seems to be what we've been ranting about for a thousand pages.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 18:49

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Do you have an issue with the column or just the author personally? The gist of his article - that loose lending standards have consequences and things are out of control - seems to be what we've been ranting about for a thousand pages.

Norm MacDonald is one of those loving morons decrying low interest rates as leading to Weimar republic.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 20:06

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Also that article has nothing interesting to say other than clutching pearls so hard his knuckles are going white

# ? Sep 2, 2017 20:07

Fuzzy Mammal: Aug 15, 2001; Lipstick Apathy

He's right about contagion soon to gently caress over entire neighbourhoods though.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 20:21

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Do you have an issue with the column or just the author personally? The gist of his article - that loose lending standards have consequences and things are out of control - seems to be what we've been ranting about for a thousand pages.

Yeah but he's also basically fellating the government for policy that happened in some cases almost ten years ago - which has had virtually no impact on this ridiculous bubble - and literally one new case where borrowers with more than a 20% down payment will have to prove they can withstand a whole TWO percent rise in interest payments!!! as stuff that's stopping "shady lending practices".

# ? Sep 2, 2017 20:40

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Fuzzy Mammal posted:

He's right about contagion soon to gently caress over entire neighbourhoods though.

No he's not. Foreclodures almost never happen and banks will do anything they can to avoid them. And since the cmhc is back stopping most of these mortgages it's even more unlikely.

# ? Sep 2, 2017 22:34

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://twitter.com/jlrealww/status/904152092486467584

So now that everyone is a millionaire and all condos are premium and luxury, what's left

# ? Sep 3, 2017 04:04

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

namaste faggots posted:

Norm MacDonald is one of those loving morons decrying low interest rates as leading to Weimar republic.

I thought the First World War led to the Weimar Republic?

From what Wikipedia says (and my own vague recollections of early 20th century history), it seems like the major issue there was Weimar Germany attempting to pay down its reparation debt with hard (i.e. foreign) currency. The inability to do this led to printing of more German currency to buy hard currency, devaluing the German currency and causing hyperinflation. Loose monetary policy isn't being used to pay a third party - it's being used (badly) to keep liquidity in the economic system, resulting in loose lending and a misallocation of capital (by idiot Canadians) into real estate. Does he really think one has something to do with the other?

# ? Sep 3, 2017 05:01

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

HookShot posted:

Yeah but he's also basically fellating the government for policy that happened in some cases almost ten years ago - which has had virtually no impact on this ridiculous bubble - and literally one new case where borrowers with more than a 20% down payment will have to prove they can withstand a whole TWO percent rise in interest payments!!! as stuff that's stopping "shady lending practices".

Yeah, the federal Liberals had nothing to do with rolling back the amortization period...it never should have been extended the way it was.

We have a culture based on getting rich quick, and for a lot of people, that's what has happened in the last few years. Smugness is a bad look, and where there is no substance, eventually, there will be a reversion to norms. How long, and what that looks like, well that's anyone's guess, I suppose.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 05:02

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

I thought the First World War led to the Weimar Republic?

From what Wikipedia says (and my own vague recollections of early 20th century history), it seems like the major issue there was Weimar Germany attempting to pay down its reparation debt with hard (i.e. foreign) currency. The inability to do this led to printing of more German currency to buy hard currency, devaluing the German currency and causing hyperinflation. Loose monetary policy isn't being used to pay a third party - it's being used (badly) to keep liquidity in the economic system, resulting in loose lending and a misallocation of capital (by idiot Canadians) into real estate. Does he really think one has something to do with the other?

Weimar hyperinflation was literally a conscious choice to try and get out of paying real war reparations. As soon as the German government decided they didn't want to print money anymore they stopped and the hyperinflation stopped.

Most people don't understand this and instead think that any money printing or inflation at all will inevitably lead to hyperinflation and wiping out all savings.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 05:14

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

There's that common image of people pushing around wheelbarrows of money and invoking Zimbabwe as the same result. Like most economics trying to use history, it's wrong.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 06:00

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

And furthermore, it's not like increasing the cash supply necessarily causes inflation on its own either. If that was the case then the dollar should have fallen 75% in value since 2010 considering that the supply has almost quadrupled due to policies like quantitative easing.

Anyone who thinks the lesson from the Weimar Republic was 'never print money' is an idiot.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 08:35

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

I thought the First World War led to the Weimar Republic?

From what Wikipedia says (and my own vague recollections of early 20th century history), it seems like the major issue there was Weimar Germany attempting to pay down its reparation debt with hard (i.e. foreign) currency. The inability to do this led to printing of more German currency to buy hard currency, devaluing the German currency and causing hyperinflation. Loose monetary policy isn't being used to pay a third party - it's being used (badly) to keep liquidity in the economic system, resulting in loose lending and a misallocation of capital (by idiot Canadians) into real estate. Does he really think one has something to do with the other?

And in addition to what others have said, hyperinflation in Weimar Germany had basically nothing to do with the rise of the Nazi party. That can be pretty squarely attributed to the Great Depression causing a collapse in American credit, a choice to embrace austerity, and an elite absolutely terrified by the prospect of communism.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 08:45

Myriarch: May 14, 2013

Weimar hyperinflation wasn't even connected to the reparations, as the reparations weren't in any currency at all - by 1921 the French were accepting it all in coal and timber. The hyperinflation started when the Weimar decided to pay people to NOT work in French occupied Ruhr so that no reparations could be extracted, not because they were unable but because they were unwilling.

Also, the article is wrong about the start of contagion in 2008. It had nothing to do with people being unable to handle interest rate rises or being too indebted with credit card debt. The initial impetus for those defaults was the upper middle class finding their housing investments no longer sound and choosing to default their mortgages despite still being able to pay it.

# ? Sep 3, 2017 22:06

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 19 hours!

https://twitter.com/BethArmogida/status/900820834394054656

# ? Sep 5, 2017 09:45

Kikkoman: Nov 28, 2002; Posing along since 2005

namaste faggots posted:

Norm MacDonald is one of those loving morons decrying low interest rates as leading to Weimar republic.

Totally beside the point but Norm MacDonald is Neil's brother and a very funny comedian

# ? Sep 5, 2017 13:23

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Kikkoman posted:

Totally beside the point but Norm MacDonald is Neil's brother and a very funny comedian

Judging by the response to the article, they're both comedians.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 15:35

dev286: Nov 30, 2006; Let it be all the best.

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://twitter.com/BethArmogida/status/900820834394054656

Those dudes are uncanny valley incarnate. They creep me out.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 23:13

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

the 5 kids 1 condo guy has found a new reason to beg for money online

quote:

A Vancouver parent is planning to launch a legal challenge after he says a Ministry of Children and Family Development staff person told him his four oldest children cannot take the public bus alone to school.

On his blog, 5 Kids 1 Condo, Adrian Crook says he has been teaching his four kids, aged seven, eight, nine, and eleven, to ride the bus by themselves to their elementary school, 45 minutes away, for the past two years. But after someone tipped the Ministry of Children and Family Development off about the practise, Crook says they launched a �weeks-long� investigation.

He says the caseworker ruled that the children could not be left unsupervised until next year, when the eldest could be deemed responsible for his siblings.

Crook disagrered and started a gofundme to help with his planned legal challenge.

�Our family�s freedom of mobility has been dramatically restricted for little reason beyond the complaint of an anonymous person,� he wrote on his blog.

�The freedoms my kids enjoyed for years were removed. Even simple trips like several kids crossing the street to the corner store, or walking to school on their own when they�re at their mom�s place were ruled out � effectively made illegal to our children, but not to every other (as yet unreported) family.�

etc. something tells me if this guy didnt blog about his rather unimpressive life this wouldn't have reached the authorities

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 00:35

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

remember when personal websites were about snes cheatcodes and downloading 4 second king of the hill sound bites not some douchebag yuppie cramming 5 kids into a 2100/month apartment because he likes the view

# ? Sep 6, 2017 00:50

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF POLICE ENFORCEMENT OR AN FBI AGENT YOU MAY NOT PROCEED

click here to downloads roms and emulators

--

The internet used to be so much better.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 01:21

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 19 hours!

https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:45

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048

This rules

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:22

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

THC posted:

the 5 kids 1 condo guy has found a new reason to beg for money online

etc. something tells me if this guy didnt blog about his rather unimpressive life this wouldn't have reached the authorities

This is bullshit, FYI.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:55

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 19 hours!

Risky Bisquick posted:

This rules

https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048

Is this one of those late stage capitalism things that the kids are always talking about?

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:06

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048https://twitter.com/forager_gareth/status/905203350127362048

Is this one of those late stage capitalism things that the kids are always talking about?

Not my image, but yeaaaaaah

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:11

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Where is femtosupply? That 5kids dipshit should be right up his alley

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:30

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

I took the city bus to school and back on my own from grade four on, which I think is like age 10? and I turned out fine and was never kidnapped and murdered. That guy's problem is not teaching his kids to use public transit, it's blogging about a lovely condo lifestyle for no reason.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 07:09

Vehementi: Jul 25, 2003; YOSPOS

People like his blog posts so that's a pretty good reason. But yeah, gently caress that guy for having CPS idiots sicced on him!

# ? Sep 6, 2017 07:45

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

vyelkin posted:

I took the city bus to school and back on my own from grade four on, which I think is like age 10? and I turned out fine and was never kidnapped and murdered. That guy's problem is not teaching his kids to use public transit, it's blogging about a lovely condo lifestyle for no reason.

Grade 4 is 8/9.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 12:19

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

By grade 3 I was walking to and from school without supervision, making lunches for myself, taking care of myself after school half the time because my parents were both working and had a paper route that involved doing my own paperwork from time to time. What the gently caress is wrong with people these days that they can't even imagine a 10 year old on a bus by themselves?

No wonder college freshmen are having panic attacks all the time.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 13:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

5kids is part of the abundant housing Vancouver real estate shills team. Just ignore

# ? Sep 6, 2017 13:41

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# ? May 9, 2024 21:35

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

back in my day we walked twelve kilometers to school both ways uphill and nobody complained when the weird guy on the end of the block asked to see our penises

You can't leave 8 year olds unsupervised for a couple hours at home without risking falling afoul of the law, why in God's name would city buses be ok?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/17/bc-supreme-court-kids-home-alone_n_8155074.html

# ? Sep 6, 2017 14:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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