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It's pretty close, slightly higher. Neither state has state income tax, which was a big worry for me when looking to relocate out of Memphis. If they say no to $110 or even $105, I'll still probably accept as my wife and I are really interested in moving, and the relocation assistance is a big benefit. Edit: we met in the middle at $105k. Offer accepted! Omne fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 18:59
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I don't want to be counting my chickens before they hatch, but I am looking at whats coming down the pipe over the next few months and have to do some thinking. I left my former agency which I was absolutely miserable at four months ago to start with my current agency. It's not perfect, but a much better environment and I'm making 20 percent more plus benefits. When I started, hr was unwilling to negotiate any salary, pto time, or relocation costs. As I was miserable with my former employer, I took their offer anyway. After going to some "town hall" meetings with management they seem to keep their belts pretty tight, though they advertise some cost of living adjustments come January. Meanwhile I'm returning to school briefly to get credentialed to perform a related type of service. Jobs for people in the area with dual certification tend to offer significantly more, and I will also have the option to practice independently. I also learned in the recent town hall that the agency wants to move to provide more services requiring the certification I'm working towards. If all goes right I should have it early 2018. My big question is when I get my certification and belly up to the negotiating table, how should I go about things? I imagine they will be more receptive to negotiating since I will offer more value and they have seen me work well in the environment. Would it be gauche to walk in with an offer from another agency and play hardball? My previous interaction left no doubt that the offer was the offer, but this will be a different situation... Though likely with the same people. How would you all handle this?
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Aug 26, 2017 08:36
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It wouldn't be gauche at all; it would be quite smart. Employers, especially ones with attitudes like you describe, only respect leverage in negotiations. Opening negotiations with another offer in your pocket is just about the best kind of leverage you can get.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:22
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Hi thread! I'm a blue-collar worker looking to transition into a more white-collar role at my company and I'm looking for advice. We're a new (bus) transportation company based in San Francisco, and because of where it's located people call it a "start-up", even though to me that's only for tech related things. Anyway… The company has been in existence for a bit over a year, after receiving 3.3m in seed funding. We went live with actual ticketed passengers a bit over a month ago. They hired me as a bus driver a week or so before they went live, and quickly realized I was the best of the three total drivers on payroll. I am a nerd (SA, hello?) and know what Google Drive is and how to send things to Expensify so that makes me the most hip bus driver in all the land. Nobody above me in the company has transportation experience. They all have a lot of experience with startups and Silicon Valley VC funding and all that, but basically defer to me to make decisions on how the actual buses should run. Which, for a bus company, I feel is a pretty big role. I talked to one of the co-founders/president a few weeks ago about expanding my role, getting me a compensation boost, as well as some equity in the company. I knew exactly zero about equity when we had the conversation other than "ask for it" so no specifics were discussed. He said we'd revisit the topic at the beginning of September after he saw how I did interviewing and training some new drivers. So. What should I ask for? We haven't gotten series A funding yet, and who knows if we will, but the company idea seems pretty solid and hopefully could take off. (I don't mind disclosing who it is, if that's allowed) Currently I'm making around 56k, which for bus driver money is actually pretty good. However, if I'm gonna be in CHARGE of the bus drivers, their training, and all protocols related to them, I figure I should be paid more than them. Edit: the company transports between SF and LA, and I live in Southern California, so I don't have Bay Area COL, but all the corporate types do.
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Aug 27, 2017 16:58
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What other benefits do you receive besides salary?
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Aug 28, 2017 13:40
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I asked one of our HR people about our corporate payscale on a whim and she sent me the whole thing. Min-Mid-Max salaries, target bonuses, and Long Term Incentives for all 20 grade levels. Can't believe she just handed it out. This will be useful if/when I make my next internal move here sometime later this year.
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Aug 29, 2017 02:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:What other benefits do you receive besides salary? kinda lovely health/dental/vision (maybe it's standard, I came from a unionized govt position with amazing health benefits) 401(k) with zero matching
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Aug 29, 2017 02:28
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spf3million posted:I asked one of our HR people about our corporate payscale on a whim and she sent me the whole thing. Min-Mid-Max salaries, target bonuses, and Long Term Incentives for all 20 grade levels. Can't believe she just handed it out. This will be useful if/when I make my next internal move here sometime later this year. My joint is very open with this information too. Very civilized.
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Aug 29, 2017 02:46
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tranten posted:kinda lovely health/dental/vision (maybe it's standard, I came from a unionized govt position with amazing health benefits) Just ballparking from when I moved from individual contributor to management you should probably be asking for about 18-30% more money, so like 63-72?
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Aug 29, 2017 02:47
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Yeah that's what I was thinking as well, but I had zero idea if my 'instincts' were correct. I'm also gonna ask for some equity, and I have no idea the valuation of our company so I don't know what a good amount would be, so I can't have any sort of sliding scale on how much salary I'd trade for how much equity. Ah well.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:38
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Do you work for Cabin? I would generally value equity quite low (as in you should be accepting cents on the dollar for equity) but really you need to talk to someone who knows about equity valuation and cap tables.
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Aug 29, 2017 11:37
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tranten posted:Nobody above me in the company has transportation experience. They all have a lot of experience with startups and Silicon Valley VC funding and all that, but basically defer to me to make decisions on how the actual buses should run. Which, for a bus company, I feel is a pretty big role.  Pretty sure there's nothing to ~*disrupt*~ with inter-city bus service, chances are this "start up" isn't long for this world. Get as much pay as you can but I'd also be ready for this poo poo to fold at any given moment.
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Aug 29, 2017 19:50
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Yeah, the correct answer is taking as much cash as you can as soon as possible. $3m before series A is just bonkers. And dealing with serial entrepreneurs who understand VC funding inside and out, I wouldn't trust any equity you could get out of them wouldn't get diluted to worthlessness by design. I don't want to read too much into this but if they won't share the company's valuation with you, they don't trust you. If you're "the bus guy" at "the bus startup" and they won't show you a cap table, they still think you're hired help they can replace on a whim. You also deserve to know how long the runway is, if only to plan for your life after. After all, they're the brain geniouses that figured out the 500-mile gap, secured funding, figured out marketing, and made a website.
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Aug 29, 2017 22:17
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JawnV6 posted:Yeah, the correct answer is taking as much cash as you can as soon as possible. $3m before series A is just bonkers. And dealing with serial entrepreneurs who understand VC funding inside and out, I wouldn't trust any equity you could get out of them wouldn't get diluted to worthlessness by design.
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Aug 29, 2017 22:20
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All very good advice thank you. That's why I posted, I was starting to see stars in my eyes. I like the team and the idea a lot, so I was thinking with my heart and not my wallet. This is giving me a good dose of reality and I appreciate it. Yes it's Cabin. tranten fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 00:05
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Sorry just to clarify from a negotiating perspective, you should absolutely *ask* for equity. When they balk at the potential "google chef" scenario, it's a nice opening to ask for more cash.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:46
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So do you guys have any tips for negotiating after already getting a job offer ? I want to ask for a higher salary and more shares but the offer is already pretty good and I don't want to come across as too aggressive. Communication is going to be mostly through email.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:02
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what is your actual negotiating position other than "give me more stuff" and have you communicated any expectations already?
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Aug 31, 2017 17:14
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I work on cars at a Toyota store and this week I negotiated a 15% pay raise. Basically in October of 15 I was hired as a lube tech, then I made a lateral move to an apprenticeship under the head used car technician and was quickly promoted to being a used car tech. I got the promotion by proposing it as a solution to our dealership's troubles meeting corporate goals for used car reconditioning times, and in the lead up to that I found out what more experienced journeymen techs were making at the store and demanded that because I knew I was going to be a key part of their strategy to meet those goals. So now, three months into my role as a used car tech after having gotten the dealership to pay for all of my industry certifications, I shopped my resume around town and got multiple offers for 10% higher than I was making. I took these offers to my manager and told him that I want to give the company a chance to retain me but that at this point in my career my professional development is going to be a function of getting my hands on more cars and diagnosing more issues (which is to say time, which I can get anywhere) and building up my tool collection (which is to say money). He scheduled a performance review between him, the GM and myself yesterday to respond to the offers. The day before review he tried to offer me a 10% raise but I told him it was neither the number I was looking for nor what it would take to retain me, but that I appreciated that they were taking me seriously and I looked forward to the review. And at review they offered me 15% so that gambit paid off. Basically it feels really good to use white collar tactics to leverage a raise at a blue collar job. An added bonus is that prior to all this the narrative I was given in my interactions with management was one of how far I have come, etc, but in the lead up to review and particularly in review itself it was about where I already am, which feels pretty good also.
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Sep 2, 2017 10:04
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I don't have anything to add except nice loving job, dude.
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Sep 2, 2017 14:19
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eighty-four merc posted:Basically it feels really good to use white collar tactics to leverage a raise at a blue collar job. An added bonus is that prior to all this the narrative I was given in my interactions with management was one of how far I have come, etc, but in the lead up to review and particularly in review itself it was about where I already am, which feels pretty good also. Blue collar, white collar, gently caress all this class division bullshit - you're a loving professional and you conduct yourself accordingly. That merits fair compensation! Congratulations on getting paid to get better at what you're already good at. Sky's the limit.
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Sep 3, 2017 16:18
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Blue collar, white collar, gently caress all this class division bullshit - you're a loving professional and you conduct yourself accordingly. That merits fair compensation! Congratulations on getting paid to get better at what you're already good at. Sky's the limit. Seriously. Great job eighty-four merc. Salary negotiation isn't about white/blue collar or whatever other division tactics, it's universal: knowing your worth in the context of an employer, improving yourself, putting in the time to prove it to your employer/build a resume for other employment opportunities, and asking for what you're worth. You nailed every one of those, and you can continue to repeat this process.
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Sep 3, 2017 19:26
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The company where I might be interviewing has an unusual tactic. An old coworker started working there a little while ago and apparently if the company contacts you for an interview they basically ask you 2 questions. 1) How much do you make now 2) how much would you like to make? After that they give you an offer slightly below what you like to make as long as it isn't more than 25% of what you make now. It's a company that only wants top of the market specialists and they don't mind paying for talent. So if they want you they basically want to give you a max 25% raise from what you earn now. They don't ask for proof but if they get the feeling you're bullshitting them they won't make you an offer. Due to the that coworker I know their salary structure and know what the maximum is they can offer me. Benefits are equal or better than what I have now, except for the performance bonus. At the new company that's a flat 8%, at my current it can vary between 0-30% but the average throughout the company is 2-5%. My "ok where do I sign" number would be roughly 12.5k higher than what I'm making now. I know what I'm worth and that's more than I'll get at 99 out of 100 places. But that's really the number that I want, below that I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle of switching jobs. My current one is not bad, pays above average and has nice benefits. I'd normally go about this by asking for something like 15k, but that's the max in their payscales. I'm afraid they'll think I'm just asking for the maximum they can offer and counter offer lower than the 12.5k I want. In addition to the payraise they might have to buy me out of some study contracts with my old company but I don't think that'll be an issue. What would be the best way to negotiate the figure I want?
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Sep 3, 2017 20:09
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LochNessMonster posted:I'd normally go about this by asking for something like 15k, but that's the max in their payscales. I'm afraid they'll think I'm just asking for the maximum they can offer and counter offer lower than the 12.5k I want. In addition to the payraise they might have to buy me out of some study contracts with my old company but I don't think that'll be an issue. What would be the best way to negotiate the figure I want?
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Sep 3, 2017 20:56
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Ask for like 5% over their max and align the what do you make to be 20% - 25% under that.
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Sep 3, 2017 21:06
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Don't tell them what you're currently making. You wouldn't tell that to any random stranger who asks, would you? The only thing that does is erode your ability to negotiate because the company will blink at offering you more than that plus some percentage that they feel is appropriate. I wouldn't give them a number when they asked for what I wanted to make, either. I'd say that I wanted to make sure that we were a good mutual fit before talking about the compensation specifics. That way, they aren't thinking, "they're good, but are they really $XXX good?" all the way through the interview process. If they forced the issue with something like "give a number right now or we'll hang up on you" (which I doubt any company that doesn't have its workers totally over a barrel would do) then I'd give the absolute top of their range.
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Sep 3, 2017 22:33
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Blue collar, white collar, gently caress all this class division bullshit - you're a loving professional and you conduct yourself accordingly. That merits fair compensation! Congratulations on getting paid to get better at what you're already good at. Sky's the limit. Motronic posted:Seriously. Great job eighty-four merc. Salary negotiation isn't about white/blue collar or whatever other division tactics, it's universal: knowing your worth in the context of an employer, improving yourself, putting in the time to prove it to your employer/build a resume for other employment opportunities, and asking for what you're worth. You nailed every one of those, and you can continue to repeat this process. I didn't mean for it to sound divisive. It seems to me that a lot of factors -- e.g. ignorance of negotiating process, ignorance of labor laws re: discussing compensation, low confidence, lack of research into wages at comparable local shops, the combination of low wealth and low income, complacency, misplaced loyalty, waiting for your ship to come in, etc. -- keep many of my coworkers from leveraging raises. For many of them, it's been years since they've sat down with management and had a performance review, let alone gotten a raise. I guess my impression is that these practices are so commonplace as to be expected from pretty much every white collar professional. But now I am apparently making 64% more than I was at the end of April thanks to hard work, a killer instinct and this thread along with other resources for salary negotiation tactics. So thanks guys!
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Sep 4, 2017 01:53
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LochNessMonster posted:The company where I might be interviewing has an unusual tactic. An old coworker started working there a little while ago and apparently if the company contacts you for an interview they basically ask you 2 questions. If you're gonna give them a number, use as generous as possible an estimate of your current total compensation. Price in benefits, perks you you have, traditional or otherwise. Be generous.
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Sep 4, 2017 04:28
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Thanks for the advise everyone. Their are two things That are a factor which I forgot to tell though. I already do contracting for them so they know me, and I know them. This will most likely not be a interview about being a good fit or doing my job well, they already know the anwser to that because that's why they asked me to do an interview. The 2nd one being that if I ask for more than the 15k raise is that I'll be compensated in the management pay bracket which is great in terms of salary but loses some benefits that would make it a lot harder to accept (no on call or overtime pay). If that were to happen I'd probably want something like a 25k raise which is pretty unrealistic. I think I should just ask for the 15k raise and settle for 12.5k. I don't think they'll undercut on that offer too much and I can always tell them that's the minimum I'd have to get to consider taking the offer. My batna is pretty good, I don't have to get a new job. My current one is pretty good too and I didn't even think about looking for a new job until this company asked me to interview.
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Sep 4, 2017 07:04
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eighty-four merc posted:I guess my impression is that these practices are so commonplace as to be expected from pretty much every white collar professional. Newp! Most people take what they are offered and sit in the dead end jobs forever and just do what they have to for fear of getting fired. Your impression of what people do is probably heavily tainted by this thread as well as your own experience and how you see things, but I'd guess you/we are all very much in the minority - which is great because it makes things even easier.
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Sep 4, 2017 15:55
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eighty-four merc posted:I didn't mean for it to sound divisive. It seems to me that a lot of factors -- e.g. ignorance of negotiating process, ignorance of labor laws re: discussing compensation, low confidence, lack of research into wages at comparable local shops, the combination of low wealth and low income, complacency, misplaced loyalty, waiting for your ship to come in, etc. -- keep many of my coworkers from leveraging raises. For many of them, it's been years since they've sat down with management and had a performance review, let alone gotten a raise. I guess my impression is that these practices are so commonplace as to be expected from pretty much every white collar professional. In my experience most "white collar" workers are just as if not more timid. You know exactly what you do, can do it at multiple places and can easily demonstrate the value of what you're doing. A lot of other guys can do it too, but there's a lot of places paying for you to do it, so it's no big deal for you to jump ship and go apply your same skills somewhere else. A significant portion of office workers are employing a skill set so abstract and specific to their place of work that it can be difficult to describe the value of what they do, demonstrate how valuable and how well they do it, and to justify their price tag. Hence they timidly keep toiling away for what they're getting instead of risking getting nothing.
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Sep 5, 2017 14:17
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Those are very good points that I hadn't considered. Thank you for raising them.
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Sep 6, 2017 01:01
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After unsuccessfully interviewing at a couple different places last month I'm getting back into a more regularly-scheduled job hunt. Obviously neither place gave me feedback on my interview or said why they went with another candidate, so I'm at a loss as to why neither position worked out. The only thing I can think of as a possible cause is that during the initial phone screen in both cases, I managed to get the hiring manager to disclose the salary budget for the role before I named my own salary requirements. Then when I was asked what level pay I was looking for, I just said whatever the maximum was in the budget. I feel that if either company really wanted me and had good hiring staff, they would have extended an offer and then tried to talk me down. But I also feel like it's much easier for an HR rep to say "C-Euro's a good candidate but is asking for too much money, meanwhile there's another person here who can do 95% of the same things but wants 10% less money so let's hire them". So now I'm wondering if asking for so much pre-interview was a mistake. But my wife and I are hoping to buy a house next year and maybe have a kid a year or so after that, so it's important that whatever job I get next involves a big raise. Did I do something wrong as far as preliminary salary demands go?
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Sep 14, 2017 12:29
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C-Euro posted:After unsuccessfully interviewing at a couple different places last month I'm getting back into a more regularly-scheduled job hunt. Obviously neither place gave me feedback on my interview or said why they went with another candidate, so I'm at a loss as to why neither position worked out. The only thing I can think of as a possible cause is that during the initial phone screen in both cases, I managed to get the hiring manager to disclose the salary budget for the role before I named my own salary requirements. Then when I was asked what level pay I was looking for, I just said whatever the maximum was in the budget.
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Sep 14, 2017 13:26
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Hoodwinker posted:You should be kicking the salary question can down the road until you've already done the full interview process. It's definitely not something you should be getting into during the phone screen. On one hand, I'd kick it down the road. On the other, after going through interviews 3 times over the last year or so and getting offers that were way below what I wanted, I'm probably going to be fairly up front with what I'd need before I waste time away from work, putting on a suit, and driving across town to go play their stupid loving games again.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:08
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Your highest offers are going to be the ones where the company gets really excited about you during the interview, and can't quite justify the salary you ask for at the end, but aww hell we'll bring him in anyway, he's great. You can't get those offers by stating it pre-interview. It's definitely a tradeoff and if I'm certain a company won't pay enough but still want to humor them, I'll happily talk about it early and have them back and save both of us time.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:37
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What about the situation where a recruiter says that they "need" a number in order to move things along? That's actually how I got one of them to give up the number- I jokingly told her $1 and she said they needed an actual number or their online form or whatever BS wouldn't work, and after I stalled for a few moments she said "well how about this, their stated budget maxes out at $X so why don't we put that down?" and I was perfectly happy with $X. I'm guessing that no staffing person ever needs a salary number that early in the interview process, but if I know how much money they can spend on the position (and know that I'm worth it) it doesn't seem wise to sell myself short. And if they say "we can't do your interview without a number" then saying "thanks but no thanks" doesn't seem so smart either. Would it be better to say "$(X-5%) is cool", then if they eventually extend an offer, say "actually, I want $X now"? That seems to go against the "never give a number first", though I guess if they already gave me the budget then they technically gave a number first.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:28
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C-Euro posted:What about the situation where a recruiter says that they "need" a number in order to move things along? That's actually how I got one of them to give up the number- I jokingly told her $1 and she said they needed an actual number or their online form or whatever BS wouldn't work, and after I stalled for a few moments she said "well how about this, their stated budget maxes out at $X so why don't we put that down?" and I was perfectly happy with $X. Say that you consider compensation to be a whole benefits package, of which salary is one part. If they need a number to move forward, put the max allocated for the position. Tell them you're more concerned about it being a good mutual fit, and if you and the company both agree on that during the process, you're sure the numbers can be worked out. (The numbers may not work out.)
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Sep 14, 2017 16:34
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interrodactyl posted:Say that you consider compensation to be a whole benefits package, of which salary is one part. If they need a number to move forward, put the max allocated for the position. Tell them you're more concerned about it being a good mutual fit, and if you and the company both agree on that during the process, you're sure the numbers can be worked out. I like this quite a bit, specifically putting the max allocated if they just have to have a number.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:03
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interrodactyl posted:Say that you consider compensation to be a whole benefits package, of which salary is one part. If they need a number to move forward, put the max allocated for the position. Tell them you're more concerned about it being a good mutual fit, and if you and the company both agree on that during the process, you're sure the numbers can be worked out. This is actually how I led off in that discussion- I'd rather learn more about the position first, I don't want to get caught up in numbers, etc (I do this to everyone). Maybe they just didn't like me as much as I thought they did.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:08
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