joepinetree posted:

I don't think it's even so much her. But do you think Daou, Mook, Blumenthal would ever get a job or anywhere close to a position of power or influence if Clinton got away from politics entirely? The people punching left the hardest are the same people who would instantly be out of jobs if the party moved left.

Inescapable Duck posted:

I wonder if Hillaristas self-segregating into their own safe space will make it easier for the rest of us.

Sneakster posted:

The liberals are against people who are against fascists while the old guard is dying off. I think we're at the start of a political Earthquake.

You're right. Lies, all of it. I'm a 6`4 rock jawed man of men, heterosexual men don't get uncomfortably hostile with me due to some confused gay panic sentiment making places like mens shelters explicitly more dangerous, women have no right to refuse my wants, lesbians should be coerced into sleeping with me via in an environment that stigmatizes them for not considering me as a sexual partner appropriate for their organizing (especially teenagers at university meeting potential partners for the first time, those trans phobic bigots really need to know what their missing out on), and any diversion from gender norms I have give me a right to assert that women have no right to refuse my demands.

That, or what I said was uncomfortably honest, and you're an rear end in a top hat with no morals.

Sneakster posted:

You're right. Lies, all of it. I'm a 6`4 rock jawed man of men, heterosexual men don't get uncomfortably hostile with me due to some confused gay panic sentiment making places like mens shelters explicitly more dangerous, women have no right to refuse my wants, lesbians should be coerced into sleeping with me via in an environment that stigmatizes them for not considering me as a sexual partner appropriate for their organizing (especially teenagers at university meeting potential partners for the first time, those trans phobic bigots really need to know what their missing out on), and any diversion from gender norms I have give me a right to assert that women have no right to refuse my demands.

Sneakster posted:

William Contraalto posted:

If it is uncomfortably honest, you have a disgustingly fetishistic understanding of transness. But it isn't. I mean look at you. Obsessing over sex with TERFs. You're gonna have to get up a lot earlier in the morning to pull off this kind of charade, bucko.

UR MR GAY posted:

So okay, I see some hardcore projection and self-loathing. Which is okay, I understand. Really!

UR MR GAY posted:

But as I said, I really do understand. On the super rare occasions that I discuss my status with people I'm close to IRL, I have a natural incliniation to counter-signal ("I'm don't really care for the... LGBT movement. I'm not like those people!"). Now, note that said inclination, I don't actually do it because I am not a petulant child and such behavior only shines back really unfavorably. If you want, private message me and I can suggest some resources regarding transition stuff. The TMT here is full of loving weirdos and I would not suggest it.

Condiv posted:

wtf is this bullshit

Sneakster posted:

Not sure. Got a a little weird there, anyway...

Condiv posted:

and yet this post is full of the same bullshit?

Condiv posted:

wtf is this bullshit

Sneakster posted:

Meant that in a a moving on kind of way if you don't want that discussion in the thread.

Sneakster posted:

Women not wanting what they consider male attention or intrusion into their space is a basic right, and lesbians not attracted to trans women aren't radical or bigots. You're either so self absorbed you delusion is your only response to criticism or you're just irredeemable shameless human filth.

Don't worry, its profound narcissism, not self-loathing.

Appreciate the advice and sentiment, but don't have PM, (and not interested in surgery), open to talking if you have suggestions for some other means. I support establishing a social environment that doesn't stigmatize people for not conforming to gender norms, but the complications for women's rights make me uncomfortable and uncertain with how a legal framework could be designed to enforce that. I have every personal reason to support it, but I can't in good conscious say its the right thing to do, and I'm not willing to support dismantling women's rights.

Ze Pollack posted:

someone trying very carefully to be as pc as possible about their transphobia

Condiv posted:

i would very much like that you don't talk about transgender people like that in this thread. how about gbs or something?

UR MR GAY posted:

If you want to talk. My junk email is: redacted

Mister Facetious posted:

The cool kids were probated.

Sneakster posted:

Women not wanting what they consider male attention or intrusion into their space is a basic right, and lesbians not attracted to trans women aren't radical or bigots. You're either so self absorbed you delusion is your only response to criticism or you're just irredeemable shameless human filth.

Mister Facetious posted:

Too bad it was the same loving argument with him, over and over again.
Even cartoon villains try something different each week.

William Contraalto posted:

The idea that trans women are salivating rapists (except you, apparently, you shining star you) is so incredibly disgusting it moves into laughable territory before remembering that people who believe this exist and encourage violence against trans people, especially children. So, uh, go gently caress yourself.

Sneakster posted:

It doesn't matter how much I identify with being female or how well I pass, or even that that heterosexual women are practically inappropriate partners: stigmatizing cis lesbians for not wanting trans women in their space is coercion. Asserting I have a right to intrude in an environment that would pressure them into considering me a partner is tad too close to corrective rape for my tastes.

William Contraalto posted:

My dude, people can tell you're lying when you do it this poorly. If you were completely honest instead of ineptly saying "trans women are actually men", the vast majority of people in this thread would still allow you to belch propaganda without one peep of objection.

Sneakster posted:

Sex and gender aren't the same thing. People born with female biology have a right to association, which includes the right to exclude people born with male biology. They have the right to voluntary association of course, but you have no right to tell gay people they have no right to fraternize among themselves, even if just the right kind of penis would cure their trans phobia.

Bel Shazar posted:

So... why is that ok, but skin color biology is wrong? What is meaningfully different between the two?

Sneakster posted:

Is this some kind of liberal autism where the very concept of discrimination is somehow incomprehensible except in the most exaggerated and absolute sense and thus ends up being accused of being racism no matter how utterly incoherent the comparison is?

Gay people exist, and coercion and corrective rape/therapy isn't acceptable. Being attracted to the same biological sex is not racism you loving maniac. Cosmetic surgery and hormones cannot change biological sex, even if they help facilitate presenting being accepted socially.

I am literally the best case scenario and the very loving essence in terms of basic physical safety of the argument for trans women having a right to women's spaces. That doesn't give me the right to assert biologically female women don't have the right to reject me, morally or legally.

Bel Shazar posted:

Now, that all being said, why is it ok for people to segregate in bathrooms by biological sex but not biological skin color?

Sneakster posted:

Condiv posted:

I thought you said you were going to stop?

Sneakster posted:

In practice, the time saved by urinals. Now why are you comparing sexually compatible people with different skin colors with dismantling women's right to association?

Biological men are still more violent than biological women by an extraordinary margin, and biological women have the right to their own spaces. The bathroom bills stuff is mainly anti trans hysteria, but biological women still have the moral right to association.

Condiv posted:

I thought you said you were going to stop?

Bel Shazar posted:

I mean, I *did* ask.

Bel Shazar posted:

Heh, so the urinal argument makes sense, though I'm not sure you would HAVE to exclude women just because there are urinals there. If a woman wants to use the men's room I don't know that I care. Maybe just identify the type of facility and let people self-select.

I'm definitely not arguing against a right to association. Freedom to exclude is a wholly other thing. I think bathrooms should be single stall, but that's not what we have right now. Since we're forced to deal with gendered bathrooms, I want to at least entertain the violence argument you made, but I can't find a thing about a higher prevalence of violence against women by transwomen, but I find volumes about violence against transwomen by men. So even if I take your argument at face value, it seems that there is a greater risk of violence by excluding transwomen from the ladies room.

yronic heroism posted:

What will this thread's spin be if they manage to flip the House?

yronic heroism posted:

Dems now polling 10 points ahead of Republicans on congressional ballot.

What will this thread's spin be if they manage to flip the House?

Cerebral Bore posted:

Well maybe the other guy will gently caress up so badly that we win by default, and that'll show you all!

yronic heroism posted:

Dems now polling 10 points ahead of Republicans on congressional ballot.

What will this thread's spin be if they manage to flip the House?

yronic heroism posted:

Dems now polling 10 points ahead of Republicans on congressional ballot.

Shukaro posted:

Is Hillary really that transparently greedy and ambitious that she'd gently caress over the party's chances and also millions upon millions of people's safety and wellbeing just to get that sweet, sweet oval office she "deserves"?

Apparently so.

Sneakster posted:

2: Men are more violent than women, to the extent that pretty much almost all murders are committed by them. Biological women have every moral right to exclude biological men for their physical safety, even if they don't identify as men, and its disingenuous to reduce the issue to bathroom bills.

Sneakster posted:

Sex and gender aren't the same thing. People born with female biology have a right to association, which includes the right to exclude people born with male biology. They have the right to voluntary association of course, but you have no right to tell gay people they have no right to fraternize among themselves, even if just the right kind of penis would cure their trans phobia.