|
Vikar Jerome posted:lmao it was an amazing loving finale double wam holy poo poo. with the way part 18 ends and the rest of season there is enough going on theorize your own ideas for years to come (almost as if it's a piece of art!) and just enough in that ending to lead into a season 4 (unlike season 2, which was meant to get tied up a few episodes in, back in the original season 3 plan) 
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:58 |
|
|
Do we have a consensus on what the year actually WAS? There was so much going on that I did not understand in that final episode, when get right down to it. Also, I'm sure it's been noted but the vision that made Andy open his mouth in horror in Episode 14 was when he was shown the #6 Electrical Pole in its location in front of the home of "Carrie Page" in Odessa.. Coop's final question keeps bringing me back to "Is it Future or is it Past", as well as the indeterminate time period everything seems to be set in (a world where both cell-phones and rotary phones exist seemingly side-by-side at times).
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
laura is the dreamer, i think that call before her final scream was sarah calling for laura on the morning they find her body. laura is the one. this is actually way more depressing come to think of it, abused by her dad laura junkie dreaming of a better world if she were dead where she is the most important person in the drama that follows is definitely some suicide watch thing. or coop got hosed by cosmic horror lodge spirits. or coop is richard dreaming of a better life. or coop hosed up with the timelines and erased the primary one yet it still lingers inside carrie, how will they sort this dilemma out in and stop judy and rescue audrey from the white room mirror world in season 4? will the roads meet coops wheels? is wally the one? this show is loving incredible and given the reactions we clearly do not deserve it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
Imagine waiting a week after ep17 only to get ep18, lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
kaworu posted:Do we have a consensus on what the year actually WAS? I think Cooper was asking the wrong question.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:22
|
|
|
now that it's aired, lmao, the final scene was the first scene to get leaked back in 2015. http://www.tmz.com/2015/10/10/twin-peaks-leak-video-laura-palmer/
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
hawowanlawow posted:Imagine waiting a week after ep17 only to get ep18, lol i don't think i could imagine the amount salt that would generate and it's pretty salty enough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:25
|
|
|
hawowanlawow posted:Imagine waiting a week after ep17 only to get ep18, lol Ha they definitely knew what was up
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:29
|
|
|
 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
The ending reminds me of Stravinsky's "L'Histoire du soldat," where a soldier loses his soul to the Devil, eventually manages to trick the Devil and win back his soul, and ends up living happily with his new bride - until he decides he'd be even happier if his mother could come live with them also, and when he goes to get her, he violates the terms of his freedom and the Devil claims him again. Over one of the last scenes, the narrator states the moral: You must not seek to add To what you have, what you once had; You have no right to share What you are with what you were. No one can have it all, That is forbidden. You must learn to choose between. One happy thing is every happy thing: Two, is as if they had never been. Cooper should have contented himself with everything he had accomplished in the present.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
So ignoring the main wtf-ness for a minute, what are we to make of when the real Diane returns? She and Coop share a very passionate kiss. Were they in a relationship? If so, when exactly? Because Dale is definitively single when he meets Annie (at least, I can't comprehend of a universe where Cooper just cheats on his partner without hesitation). So Coop and Diane aren't together when real Coop vanishes, but the kiss is like that of lovers or partners reunited, not friends or an ex (which I'd expect to be more of a strong hug). It almost seems like Annie was retconned out of the series, except that Hawk actually mentions her in like ep 6ish.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:lmao it was an amazing loving finale double wam holy poo poo. with the way part 18 ends and the rest of season there is enough going on theorize your own ideas for years to come (almost as if it's a piece of art!) and just enough in that ending to lead into a season 4 (unlike season 2, which was meant to get tied up a few episodes in, back in the original season 3 plan) Why do people insist on making awful, "I'm smarter than you"-esque posts like this?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:38
|
|
|
Quantum of Phallus posted:OK just finished them both back to back. I had this feeling too. It felt like the conceits of the world we'd learned had been thrown away and we're back to dealing with this cold malevolent universe. After they crossed over (and there's not much to go on here in terms of interactions to be sure and I may just be projecting my own confusion) all of the cheery eccentricity felt absent, like I was watching an unfailingly bleak show rather than one which balanced things out. The ending was dark and deeply disconfitting, and I can only speculate Judy (possessing Sarah I guess) had done something terrible (an intention indicated by Sarah smashing Laura's picture). I've read someone saying the 'Laura' call Laura hears at the end is Sarah calling for Laura to wake her up the day after she was meant to be murdered
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:38
|
|
|
What about the thought that these two timelines feed into each other (like a figure 8 almost), and leave impressions on one another. Like in one, Judy's is Carrie's workplace where she probably gets harassed and probably dreads coming in. In the other, this is represented by Judy being some cosmic horror that represents pure suffering. If Laura is the dreamer, then she could concoct up such a universal constant. How that would fit in with the Tremonds and the rest of the Lodge happenings, I have no clue. Or I'm just as clueless as everyone else right now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:38
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:Why do people insist on making awful, "I'm smarter than you"-esque posts like this? Idk, but it's ten times more annoying than people complaining
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:39
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:Why do people insist on making awful, "I'm smarter than you"-esque posts like this? there are no smarter than you posts, no matter how many times you like to call people out for it in this thread. my point is the same, this is just what the show is. but i did enjoy laughing at the salty negative reactions for a moment and how they were somehow wronged because they didn't get what they wanted and i have moved on to basking in this 18 hour david lynch artwork, as everyone should.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:41
|
|
|
regulargonzalez posted:So ignoring the main wtf-ness for a minute, what are we to make of when the real Diane returns? She and Coop share a very passionate kiss. Were they in a relationship? If so, when exactly? Because Dale is definitively single when he meets Annie (at least, I can't comprehend of a universe where Cooper just cheats on his partner without hesitation). So Coop and Diane aren't together when real Coop vanishes, but the kiss is like that of lovers or partners reunited, not friends or an ex (which I'd expect to be more of a strong hug).
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:42
|
|
|
regulargonzalez posted:So ignoring the main wtf-ness for a minute, what are we to make of when the real Diane returns? She and Coop share a very passionate kiss. Were they in a relationship? If so, when exactly? Because Dale is definitively single when he meets Annie (at least, I can't comprehend of a universe where Cooper just cheats on his partner without hesitation). So Coop and Diane aren't together when real Coop vanishes, but the kiss is like that of lovers or partners reunited, not friends or an ex (which I'd expect to be more of a strong hug). i think annie might have been a tulpa of some kind that meant to lure dale into the lodge so badcoop and bob could get out. maybe the final dossier will go into it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:I've read someone saying the 'Laura' call Laura hears at the end is Sarah calling for Laura to wake her up the day after she was meant to be murdered Just listened to them both back to back, the one in Ep18 is much slower than any of the calls from the pilot but it definitely sounds like Sarah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Can I just say I thought the owl cave/ring symbol turning into an infinity and that being the final clue like we're supposed to smack our foreheads and go "of course!" was as dumb as a butt. Yeah, that's the kind of thing I wasn't enjoying. There were just too many red herrings throughout the season and it caused the conclusion to have very little impact on me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
Reports are coming in that, in some areas, Twin Peaks part 18 was pre-empted for a full hour of a butt farting forever and no one noticed
adamcantsleep fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Sep 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:53
|
|
|
So is DougieCoop suppose to represent how much good Cooper can do when only using his subconscious? He fucks up when he tries to mess with both the future and past, and only seems hyper-competent when he's in the very present.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 15:53
|
|
|
regulargonzalez posted:So ignoring the main wtf-ness for a minute, what are we to make of when the real Diane returns? She and Coop share a very passionate kiss. Were they in a relationship? If so, when exactly? Because Dale is definitively single when he meets Annie (at least, I can't comprehend of a universe where Cooper just cheats on his partner without hesitation). So Coop and Diane aren't together when real Coop vanishes, but the kiss is like that of lovers or partners reunited, not friends or an ex (which I'd expect to be more of a strong hug). The Diane Tulpa mentions that Coop had kissed Diane only once before the night Booper raped her. But they obviously had a very close and intimate relationship!
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:06
|
|
|
kaworu posted:Do we have a consensus on what the year actually WAS? The Odessa sign shows the 2010 census population, so it is at least 2010.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:06
|
|
|
I'm going to need time and a full re-watch before I know what to feel about that finale. I wasn't hoping to have all questions answered, but I was hoping for a bit of closure or some of the transcendence you find with FWWM's ending. One thing that gave me the willies was how inert Cooper was during the sex scene with Diane. It was like the Dougie/Janey-E coupling, except Dougie was obviously enjoying that. And Diane hiding Cooper's face made sense once I realized she was having sex with someone who looked identical to the man who'd raped her. I knew Cooper trying to "save" Laura from being murdered was a bad idea. Seems like hubris on Cooper's part to think he can do that. The Twin Peaks we saw after that reminded me of the Stephen King novel 11/22/63 where saving JFK from assassination just ends up loving the world over big time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:09
|
|
|
It'd be fun for them to do more, but I don't know if they should given there's no way we'll ever get straight answers on these things unless Lynch is keeping a diary of where his head is at with some of the plot lines. From reading enough background on the tv show, it's pretty clear they make it up as they go and are just doing what would be interesting. What a strange wonderful show. (Dougie!)
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
How is there still no Sheriff Truman hat gif 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Hijinks Ensue posted:I'm going to need time and a full re-watch before I know what to feel about that finale. I wasn't hoping to have all questions answered, but I was hoping for a bit of closure or some of the transcendence you find with FWWM's ending. Regardless, I still loved the poo poo out of about 16.75 hours of this, which is more than I can say for basically anything else I've seen recently.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
how's judy
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
Kurtofan posted:how's judy I'm not going to talk about Judy
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
Your Parents posted:I don't understand this constant criticism that Lynch "did it for himself" or was "unmoored from the audience" or whatever. it smacks of the taint of nostalgia. it's empty, meaningless babble that doesn't mean anything but "i liked the old one better" and takes twenty times more words to say it. 'Unmoored from the audience' is a valid criticism, in a way. Maybe it's not the best way of presenting it. Art involves technique. Someone like David Lynch, who is known for 'artsy' work, is successful because he has a mastery of technique that allows him to evoke feelings, ideas, and concepts in ways that are different than usual, deeper even. But he's still operating within the framework of traditional narrative filmmaking, so some of the same rules hold. However, he is known to be someone who works on 'instinct'; the idea is that things just feel right to him, so he does them. Most people's issues with The Return haven't been conceptual, they've been technical. I don't think 'sad, bleak ending' is entirely unexpected from Twin Peaks, but there is very little in the previous 17 hours of The Return, plus the entirety of the original show, that suggests an ending where Cooper tries to change the past and then ends up in some kind of alternate dimension. At least it didn't feel like it to me. You can make a perfectly reasonable argument that Lynch's technique faltered here. I feel like with something like this, people are either afraid to engage with it critically, or just don't know how to. No one has any issues watching something like Game of Thrones and saying 'the pace is bad', or 'the way this scene was set up and shot did not convey what I think it was supposed to convey', or 'this moment of catharsis or tragedy or despair was not properly set up and thus was unearned', no one has any issues doing that because they kind of understanding the basic technique of a 'standard' Hollywood tv show like that. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Sep 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
Knorth posted:Also, she was raped by his literal doppelganger so that may have made looking at him kind of uncomfortable for her The way I took this scene when I first watched it was that it was catharsis for her -- she was finally having sex with coop but now with her totally in control
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
Cooper's behavior the whole time after leaving Gordon and Diane and going through that door was very strange. I think he was struggling to overcome the evil side of his being after Danzig was killed. Maybe sending part of his goodness into the new copy of Dougie made him too spiritually weak to accomplish whatever the white lodge spirits had planned for him. I think Cooper may have been trying to purposefully strand himself somewhere with Laura that was safe for her. His reaction to the body in her house in Odessa seemed more confused and disappointed than anything, like he knew something was going wrong. Maybe Laura was the source of the portal in her house, not Sarah or Leland or anything else. Season 4 will begin with another real-time road trip back to Odessa.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Cromulent posted:So is DougieCoop suppose to represent how much good Cooper can do when only using his subconscious? He fucks up when he tries to mess with both the future and past, and only seems hyper-competent when he's in the very present. In fact that part of the poem kind of reads to me like it could be about Cooper in the season 3 finale now. References the future and past, to darkness, to how the Magician "longs to see" (Cooper himself longing to save Laura?), and hell even reference to there being two worlds.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:lmao it was an amazing loving finale double wam holy poo poo. with the way part 18 ends and the rest of season there is enough going on theorize your own ideas for years to come (almost as if it's a piece of art!) and just enough in that ending to lead into a season 4 (unlike season 2, which was meant to get tied up a few episodes in, back in the original season 3 plan) I feel like art needs to be conclusive to be satisfying, even through speculation. And I don't mean that as in a magician giving away his secrets. If you're interpreting a piece of art, you can see it from any angle you want, but what's important is that you can come to a conclusion about what it is and what it means. Episode 18 doesn't give us nearly enough pieces of the puzzle to do that. We can speculate all we want on what is going on in the back half of Episode 18 but the show just doesn't give us enough to work with to come up with anything concrete, and that's the issue I take with it. Theorizing means nothing if you aren't given enough information to try and piece it together. To go back to the magician metaphor, you can try and guess how a trick is done and you may very well be correct, but you'll never know for sure because he won't tell you. But you saw the trick be performed, and you saw every move, and you saw the results of the trick, so you can make an educated guess based on what you know. Twin Peaks has only given us 2/3rds of those steps. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
hawowanlawow posted:Cooper's behavior the whole time after leaving Gordon and Diane and going through that door was very strange. I think he was struggling to overcome the evil side of his being after Danzig was killed. Maybe sending part of his goodness into the new copy of Dougie made him too spiritually weak to accomplish whatever the white lodge spirits had planned for him. I think Cooper may have been trying to purposefully strand himself somewhere with Laura that was safe for her. His reaction to the body in her house in Odessa seemed more confused and disappointed than anything, like he knew something was going wrong. Maybe Laura was the source of the portal in her house, not Sarah or Leland or anything else. Season 4 will begin with another real-time road trip back to Odessa. People keep talking about this evil side of coop but I thought that was just a doppleganger that was taken over by Bob, not actually a part of cooper. Is there evidence for this?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:Episode 18 doesn't give us nearly enough pieces of the puzzle to do that. can you say that definitively? have you combed through the rest of the show to see if there are more revealing clues you might not have picked up on before?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:37
|
|
|
I feel like there are plenty of clues that could lead to quite a few conclusions, but there's no real hint as to which is the "correct" one, if there is one at all. And I'm fine with that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
I just took it all to mean that dale's mission isn't over and the story of Laura isn't done. If showtime wants to continue the story well there's the opportunity. I was a bit disappointed by bobby not having much to do with the end there in episode 17. Everything with him, Shelly, and what is presumably their dead kid all sort of fizzled without any resolution.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:58 |
|
|
And can we just put a moratorium on "ugh if you don't like [x] in the new season, you just want cherry pie and memes and fanservice"? I loved most of this season and I wasn't expecting easy answers, but I think making the finale hinge on Dale Cooper's hubris ('cause that's a trait he's known for, right?) and a desire to save Laura Palmer when the series has never been about those things is a facile rebuff to honest criticism. I wanted mystery and ambiguity, but not using Grace Zabriskie in the finale save for one brief scene is a goddamn crime and a waste of Sarah's intriguing storyline.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 16:42
|
|