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AriadneThread posted:i also want to say the way your npc companions are set up seems kind of weird. i really get the feeling the game was designed with the expectation you'd pick three buddies at the start of the game and stick with them the whole trip, and the ability to change your party after leaving the city was clumsily pasted in later on? like no else gets any exp if they aren't in your party so everyone not in use very quickly falls behind and if you try to spread exp around they still fall behind, only slightly slower. i'd go so far as to say it might have been stronger for the game if you'd just had a set party with people rotating in or out depending on the needs of the plot at the time.
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Jul 4, 2017 02:11
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You mentioned Erritis not being a great companion... did you miss his personal quest? Are you trying to help him with his nano demon infestation - or did you help the nano demons take over and make him a one man wrecking machine for destroying all your enemies?
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Jul 6, 2017 13:35
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GlyphGryph posted:You mentioned Erritis not being a great companion... did you miss his personal quest? Are you trying to help him with his nano demon infestation - or did you help the nano demons take over and make him a one man wrecking machine for destroying all your enemies? i haven't finished that quest yet. i like the character, he's funny but his motivation for following you around just feels really flimsy
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Jul 6, 2017 15:14
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So i bought it for the ps4 "used" yesterday(the dude said no one bought any copies so they just moved it to used and made the price 20, so i got all pre order bounuses) so far i actually like it but not far. i just talked a crowed into revolting agaisnt the clone guards raping some dudes brain to death or something. any advice.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:06
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Erritis kind of requires you to have a nano with mind reading to get the most out of, it pretty much makes him a completely different character. Int based nano is probably the right way to play this anyway though, at least I can't think of any reason whatsoever to pick a glaive.
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Jul 7, 2017 06:23
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AriadneThread posted:i haven't finished that quest yet. i like the character, he's funny but his motivation for following you around just feels really flimsy It's less flimsy if you can read minds. A single playthrough with mind-reading and some reloading is about right and very fun. If you like "winning" conversations and exploring/reading in RPGs this is a good game. edit:should have read ahead instead of mashing quote. I agree with the guy above me.
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Jul 7, 2017 10:29
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Dapper_Swindler posted:. any advice. Tell everyone you are the Changing God, what do they know anyway?
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Jul 7, 2017 10:32
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I think Perception is better than mind readong imo. Implies the same stuff instead of spellong it out but you get the same info or sometimes more. Of course every character can eventually find out exactly what his deal is and by the Maw several npcs are often straight up telling you.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:36
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i do have mind reading, that's why i find erritus funny instead of tired. he still seems like he could have been just as well explored as a one-area side quest npc then companion though. i just finished his quest last night, got the 'demons' to scale back a bit though erritus hasn't changed behavior any it seems. i guess i'll be seeing more of him though since i sent rhin home. i'm not really sure what to do with my party now. Matkina stays on, Callistage is my next highest level at tier three, everyone one else, except Oom, is some degree of tier two. If I want healing Aligren's my only option but he's not specced for it and won't play nice with Calli. Tybir i pulled out just long enough to finish his quest, and while i liked the quest from a writing standpoint as a character i kind of wish i could have just feed him to the maw that eats guilty people. I'd do Aligren and Erritus but I only have the one sword worth a drat, so I guess it's Calli and Erritus and hope that I'm strong enough at this point to not ever need healing. I'm going to miss rhin, her healing and teleport spells, the pile of healing items she had in her inventory, the 11 cyphers she was carrying...
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Jul 7, 2017 15:55
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You shouldn't really be fighting much in this anyway. Erittis still has a bit to his quest later - though this requires him to actually be in your party for endgame. Same deal with Tybir and Caliste.
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Jul 7, 2017 16:05
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Erritis is a real combat powerhouse even at mid levels, and who needs healing. Definitely run with him, Matkina and Callistege
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Jul 7, 2017 16:29
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I'm realistically only going to play this once. What are the opinions on the best storylines? I have Rhin in my party and she intrigues me so she's staying in regardless of whether I'm let down. I have Erritis and Aligern. I'm interested in Matkina and Callistege. Not really interested in Tybir nor in Oom.
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Jul 7, 2017 19:28
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Rhin is the best character in the game, imo
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Jul 7, 2017 19:45
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Matkina has the most presence and ties to the story and potentially figures into the ending so I'd take her, you can't drop Rhin without losing her forever anyway so keep her too, and of the remaining ones - Erritis is probably the most interesting? You can just switch around people in the last slot to do their quests once you get to the bloom though, most are pretty straightforward.
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Jul 7, 2017 19:51
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I like Erritis. Like even if you don't have mind reading, there's still enough telling you that he's not just a comic relief character early on. And the fact that he is completely perplexed about people existing without his story being present is just the right amount of meta for my tastes.
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Jul 7, 2017 20:09
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I really wish you could have more people in the party. It's not like they really cared about combat balance anyway.
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Jul 15, 2017 15:42
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I've just finished this. Two things that kinda made me roll my eyes about this game - first, a lot of the descriptive text as well as dialogue feels very freshman / like something from a teen goth notebook. Lots... of... dramatic... ellipses... and... needlessly... elaborate... and... "mysteriously" incoherent descriptions of how characters feel and how you should feel about that. Second, I was spoiled on Rhin eventually obtaining the ability to use cyphers without discarding them, but by the time I got to that point, there was almost no fighting left, and often fights were so trivial that they would be over before I even got a chance to use my hoarded cyphers even though I built my characters for non-combat interactions primarily. It makes mechanical character development feel inconsequential, and the supposedly huge leaps from tier to tier are anticlimactic.
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Jul 23, 2017 14:05
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I was a huge fan of Planescape: Torment (I actually did a longass narrative LP over the course of 4 years in part as an exercise to help improve my writing skill), and I started Tides of Numenera with high hopes. I just reached the bloom, but I don't expect my views will change much towards the end of the game. 1 - The story has excellent narrative elements behind it, but that's basically the ONLY core aesthetic the game has. I love the world, and I love the story. 2 - The companions for the most part aren't very personable. Rhin is probably the most likable character overall (her and Tybir, and Matkina after a fashion), but unfortunately the mechanics of having her in the party (and the fact that we're FORCED to keep her in the party at the cost of her running off and dying in the wilderness) leave me somewhat resenting her presence. There are major stumbling blocks in having a child in your party, and unfortunately Rhin hits many of the major mechanical issues. Also, being restricted to having 4 NPCs is economical, but ultimately problematic given the total number of interactions you can have. I wanted to see all the permutations of character-character interaction I could so found it very cumbersome having to cycle through them the way I was kinda forced to. 3 - Immersive elements are woefully lacking, and this is one of the two major, major problems in Tides. Part of the blame lies with the leveling system. Indeed, the leveling system is VERY poorly designed and should've been discarded from the outset. The underlying problem is that in Tides, you don't truly "level up" to the next Tier, you have to progress through a series of quarter-Tiers: in proceeding from Tier 1 to Tier 2, you essentially have to progress through Tier 1.25, Tier 1.5, and Tier 1.75. At the first quarter-Tier you choose to advance either your Stats, your Edge, your Effort, or Abilities/Skills. If you choose to improve your Stats, then at Tier 1.5 you can only increase your Edge, Effort, or Abilities/Skills. If you choose Effort then, you can expect to only choose between improving your Effort or Abilities/Skills at level 1.75. I can see why Monte Cook chose to design the Numenera system in this fashion: leveling up a character is a rather tedious and daunting affair that requires a lot of planning in games like D&D where all your character's abilities improve in one go. By breaking levels down into quarter-Tiers, you're making the process of character advancement much more digestible to the player. Yet the underlying problem is that between each level, the player's options feel like they are constantly narrowing, whereas in conventional RPG design wisdom you want your options to expand. While it is a wise game design decision in easing the mechanics of gameplay, the feel of the game is much worse off. The fact that you only get 4 full Tiers to expand to (and hence only get to choose 4 unique abilities/skills) is an even more rankling restriction. 4 - As much as people complained about the lovely combat in Planescape: Torment, it had at least one thing going for it: it helped drive the narrative. 2nd Edition D&D was a woefully broken and Byzantine system, and I do not want to see another game based on it. However, in the case of Planescape: Torment, the fact that it was so broken and unbalanced was crucial in driving forward the point that The Nameless One (an immortal being who over time draws on the knowledge of his past incarnations and is itself an aberrant force that distorts the fabric of the universe, whose pure will can change his environment) is a powerful, demigod-like entity. It really helped tickle the need to exercise a power fantasy that makes RPGs so fun. Sure carving through a swath of Hive thugs was kind of tedious, especially towards the mid-game, but TNO is kind of supposed to be a force to be reckoned with by that point and being able to mow down mooks with such mercilessness ease while exploring Sigil helps push that aesthetic. By downplaying combat so much in Tides, the game became bereft of this experience. I mean, you're supposed to be a cast-off shell of a powerful, world-shaping entity called The Changing God, of all things! I don't like to think of myself as a power gamer, but the narrative of the game sells to the player the idea of a power fantasy, and the shoddy combat simply does not give us a way to experience it in this venue. All in all, I am enjoying the experience, but Tides of Numenera really has some central flaws that should've been recognized early on by the devs.
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Jul 26, 2017 01:59
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ShadowCatboy posted:I can see why Monte Cook chose to design the Numenera system in this fashion 
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Jul 28, 2017 21:34
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ShadowCatboy posted:3 - Immersive elements are woefully lacking, and this is one of the two major, major problems in Tides. Part of the blame lies with the leveling system. Indeed, the leveling system is VERY poorly designed and should've been discarded from the outset. The underlying problem is that in Tides, you don't truly "level up" to the next Tier, you have to progress through a series of quarter-Tiers: in proceeding from Tier 1 to Tier 2, you essentially have to progress through Tier 1.25, Tier 1.5, and Tier 1.75. At the first quarter-Tier you choose to advance either your Stats, your Edge, your Effort, or Abilities/Skills. If you choose to improve your Stats, then at Tier 1.5 you can only increase your Edge, Effort, or Abilities/Skills. If you choose Effort then, you can expect to only choose between improving your Effort or Abilities/Skills at level 1.75. Eh, I don't think that is an issue. As it stands, the game works pretty much like Fallout in that it gives you major rewards only once in a number of levels (perks in Fallout, Tiers in Tides). As for cyclically narrowing options, that is a problem with virtually any RPG system, especially those that rely on skill trees. You always bee-line for some upgrade you like, and after you get it, as well as prior to getting it, you are left filling the skill hierarchy with less exciting rewards until you get to the next upgrade you are excited about. Very few RPGs make each level feel significant. I mean even old DnD RPGs like Baldur's gate had distinct leveled tiers.
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Jul 28, 2017 22:07
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steinrokkan posted:Eh, I don't think that is an issue. As it stands, the game works pretty much like Fallout in that it gives you major rewards only once in a number of levels (perks in Fallout, Tiers in Tides). As for cyclically narrowing options, that is a problem with virtually any RPG system, especially those that rely on skill trees. You always bee-line for some upgrade you like, and after you get it, as well as prior to getting it, you are left filling the skill hierarchy with less exciting rewards until you get to the next upgrade you are excited about. Very few RPGs make each level feel significant. I mean even old DnD RPGs like Baldur's gate had distinct leveled tiers. Well, consider the JC Penny's Effect. A few years ago JC Penny's deviated from conventional department store practices and tried to be more honest with their customers. Whereas Macy's might have a pair of jeans being sold at a ridiculous markup with a coincident discount ( Game design is very similar to this: it's about establishing the right feel for a player, rather than just feeding you pure stat-boosting substance. How those bonuses get to you matters. That said however, I would say that the complaints I have with Tides aren't what's fundamentally seen in the Fallout leveling system. In Fallout, you get consistent level rewards each level, along with a perk every third level. The game-feel that results is that you're making steady advancement in choices as the norm, while getting a fresh treat in the form of a new, special choice every once in a while. Tides however packages gameplay in a manner that leads to fewer reward options per advancement, so the feel of the game as you progress between Tiers is one of constant decline. While those options suddenly open up again when you get to the next tier, this doesn't change the fact that your options are actively becoming more locked up between tiers. Also, the fact that you only get to see your options "reopen" only three times total in the game makes this problem even worse. Skill-tree systems like in Diablo II are also fundamentally different from Tides. Generally in D2, your options are going to expand as you level (that is, after all, what trees do), giving you a broader array of options. While it is true that no one who works with strategy in mind is going to deviate from the specialization path they set for themselves, in D2 the option to do so is still present, allowing for a greater possibility space mechanically even if you as the player are narrowing the possibility space through your plans to specialize. This gives the player a greater feeling of autonomy, and makes his choices feel more meaningful. Tides just doesn't have that. Its leveling rewards are too scant, and the way they're doled out reduces the player's options more than it expands them. ShadowCatboy fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 23:45
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Yeah I sort of stressed on the first couple levels before realizing that leveling was... well, it feels a lot more like a cycle than a progression. Obviously it was a progression because my duder was super strong by the end but there's something about staring down a narrowing set of options that makes it feel like "oh well poo poo I guess I just take one of the other ones next time because I literally can't not" that makes it feel like you have no choice. (I still think it's bigger fault is trying to feel like planescape but also be its own, leaving this weird hodge-podge where it hits almost the same moments over and over). Also I'm turning into a grumpy old man yelling at the games industry to just loving try something, anything different so staying too close to Planescape rankled me a bit.
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Jul 28, 2017 23:51
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ShadowCatboy posted:I mean, you're supposed to be a cast-off shell of a powerful, world-shaping entity called The Changing God, of all things! The Changing God isn’t really all that godlike though. He’s no master strategist or manipulator like the Practical Incarnation. Every time he runs into a problem he brute forces it either using the Tides, like you can see in the memories in the Infested Fathom, or better technology, like trapping the castoffs in the clock. If he can’t do that, he just ditches the body and runs away. I think there’s more examples of the latter than the former. It’s the same when you finally meet him and he tries to get the body back. He first demands that you hand it over and then immediately resorts to brute force. Even his endgame is to base everything around one powerful piece of technology, instead of an intricate plan with tons of pawns and backup schemes. He’s a brilliant scientist, but that’s about it. He’s still accomplished (and hosed up) a lot. He’s founded cities, propagated an entire race, started a forever war, and formed a murderous psycho cult. When it comes his impact on the world, he really is like a god. But on a personal level, he’s not that impressive. Even his original motivation is rather mundane. I guess the point is that the guy himself isn’t that great, it's his legacy that's important. If there is a answer for the game’s big question that the devs prefer, I think it’d be that. A life isn’t important but its legacy is. I don’t remember if that’s one of the options though. But yeah, the combat sucks
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Jul 29, 2017 00:33
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TWIST FIST posted:The Changing God isn’t really all that godlike though. He’s no master strategist or manipulator like the Practical Incarnation. Every time he runs into a problem he brute forces it either using the Tides, like you can see in the memories in the Infested Fathom, or better technology, like trapping the castoffs in the clock. If he can’t do that, he just ditches the body and runs away. I think there’s more examples of the latter than the former. It’s the same when you finally meet him and he tries to get the body back. He first demands that you hand it over and then immediately resorts to brute force. Even his endgame is to base everything around one powerful piece of technology, instead of an intricate plan with tons of pawns and backup schemes. He’s a brilliant scientist, but that’s about it. All right that's fair. I kinda wish he was more of a force than what I've seen of him so far in the labyrinth though.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:41
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I am sort of pissed that I saved whatshername from the Sorrow and everyone still acts like shes dead.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:44
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ShadowCatboy posted:All right that's fair. I kinda wish he was more of a force than what I've seen of him so far in the labyrinth though. Yeah it's almost funny how useless he is every time you try to talk to him
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Jul 29, 2017 00:48
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Just getting into this game now, still early on, and just getting to tier 2. Something I've been googling and can't seem to work out is, for some skills, like Running, Initiative, what's the difference between Trained and Specialised? I've somehow got to tier 2 without even having a crisis, apart from that one tutorial fight with just the Last Castoff, so I haven't even been able to figure out the mechanics. Edit: I guess the simple obvious answer is that you can run further and come sooner in the Initiative order, but I just wanted confirmation that it's true, because the tooltips have no hard numbers. Konsek fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 19:11
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Konsek posted:Just getting into this game now, still early on, and just getting to tier 2. Something I've been googling and can't seem to work out is, for some skills, like Running, Initiative, what's the difference between Trained and Specialised? I've somehow got to tier 2 without even having a crisis, apart from that one tutorial fight with just the Last Castoff, so I haven't even been able to figure out the mechanics. Torment: Tides of Numenera - some skills allow you to come sooner
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Sep 4, 2017 14:02
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Konsek posted:I guess the simple obvious answer is that you can run further and come sooner in the Initiative order. Yea its this.
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Sep 4, 2017 14:40
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Hah, great, thanks. And similarly, the lore skills, is there a benefit to having 2 ranks? I don't remember ever having to make a check against them, only extra information coming up automatically.
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Sep 4, 2017 17:58
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Konsek posted:Hah, great, thanks. And similarly, the lore skills, is there a benefit to having 2 ranks? I don't remember ever having to make a check against them, only extra information coming up automatically. There are some checks for different lore skills. When you're messing around with weird devices, it can come in handy.
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Sep 4, 2017 18:40
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Well I guess I can never remove Rhin from the party. She's just here forever.
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Oct 15, 2017 05:58
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well I guess I can never remove Rhin from the party. She's just here forever. Are you running into a bug? You can definitely get rid of her by sending her off into the House of Empty Time portal in the government district. She'll end up joining you again later at the end
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Oct 15, 2017 08:44
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iirc you don't get her again if you do the archway, but you do if you push her into the maw
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Oct 15, 2017 08:55
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TheHoosier posted:Are you running into a bug? You can definitely get rid of her by sending her off into the House of Empty Time portal in the government district. She'll end up joining you again later at the end No but she cries and I have to reload my game from before I did it.
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Oct 17, 2017 01:00
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Jeb! Repetition posted:No but she cries and I have to reload my game from before I did it. Might be a stat check? I've only been through the game once and that's the path I took. I dunno what goes into that decision unfortunately TheHoosier fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 01:05
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No there doesn't seem to be any way to stop her from crying and thinking you're abandoning her. Is there a mod or cheat to increase the size of your party?
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Oct 17, 2017 03:22
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you can not abandon the homeless child in the middle of the street and be able to pick her up again later you can hand her over to the adoption agency, or look for a way to send her home, but removing her from the party temporarily isn't an option. rhin's the best party member anyway, imo, but yeah, that's the intended design
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Oct 17, 2017 04:01
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What happens if my quest item inventory fills up because the game didn't remove them when quests were over?
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Oct 17, 2017 04:31
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Jeb! Repetition posted:What happens if my quest item inventory fills up because the game didn't remove them when quests were over? you get a scroll bar
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Oct 17, 2017 06:20
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