|
FizFashizzle posted:I'm still skeptical of her. Can someone tell me why we're supposed to think she's a corncob or whatever? I know she was a prosecutor, but so what? Was there anything in particular about her a prosecutor that makes her subject to enhanced scrutiny? I've just heard people say "oh, when I found out about her time as a prosecutor...!" and whenever I ask what specifically I've gotten silence. Maybe it's just that the thread moves fast, I'm certainly open to reading anything you might have to tell me about her. But I have a feeling a large portion of the "I'm afraid she's a secret rightist" is actually "I'm afraid that she's openly a woman."
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 13:08 |
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:But that has very little to do with who we elect for president in 2020. The cultural and institutional changes we need are far more decentralized and community improvement based than electioneering is. very disagreed. the bully pulpit has power, and we need someone who's willing to use it to advocate for leftism
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Aren't the fascists still poised to do well in the French assembly elections, or did that already go down? Besides lol, after a few years of Macron being a dumbshit she's just going to win next time around. Meanwhile the Eurozone seems as precarious as ever, given that the Euro is and always was a very bad idea. maybe i'm misunderstanding something here, but the elections to form the french national assembly were in june. out of 557 total members, the front national (le pen's party) got 8 whole seats. (edit: you're still right about the euro tho)
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
I wonder if a party that promised to build poo poo like infrastructure and stay out of private life decisions could gain any substantial traction in the US, seems like the right incentives package could subvert the capitalists before they realize too late that we've built more socialism into society.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Considering that Europe seems to be two steps away from the edge because of a combination of the EU being dumb and the fact that like ten Muslim people showed up and now it's "holy poo poo better dismantle the welfare state" I dunno that those kinds of comparisons are as comforting as they used to be. This is a pretty ridiculous hyperbole. When Europeans panic about what might happen in the future, we're scared of becoming more like the US.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Have Macron's approval ratings in France gotten better? Last I saw they were Trump level or worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
botany posted:maybe i'm misunderstanding something here, but the elections to form the french national assembly were in june. out of 557 total members, the front national (le pen's party) got 8 whole seats. What happened is I didn't bother to look up what was happening in France since they had their first round of elections. The last news I heard was "Macron won, but the NF are still polling well," which clearly didn't end up being true.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Nothus posted:Yet another group of morons who weren't listening to what Trump was saying during the campaign. quote:“The community is not going to forget who came to our aid and who didn’t,” he said, referring to the largely silent Michigan Republican establishment. “And we have voting power.” less blaming, more helping.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:Can someone tell me why we're supposed to think she's a corncob or whatever? I know she was a prosecutor, but so what? Was there anything in particular about her a prosecutor that makes her subject to enhanced scrutiny? I've just heard people say "oh, when I found out about her time as a prosecutor...!" and whenever I ask what specifically I've gotten silence. Maybe it's just that the thread moves fast, I'm certainly open to reading anything you might have to tell me about her. But I have a feeling a large portion of the "I'm afraid she's a secret rightist" is actually "I'm afraid that she's openly a woman." she thought it was a good idea to throw parents in jail for their children's truancy, she refused to prosecute the criminal actions of a bank that one of trump's goblins owned (and he donated to her campaign, and only hers of all dems afterwards), and her department argued against releasing inmates ordered released because california needed the cheap labor
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
botany posted:maybe i'm misunderstanding something here, but the elections to form the french national assembly were in june. out of 557 total members, the front national (le pen's party) got 8 whole seats. You have the right of it that Macron's party has the lion's share of seats, and that the fascists are a legislative mote. It's unfortunate that Macron's party is comprised of crooks and thieves that everyone already knows and hates even more than Macron, and he's the guy sitting at 30% approval with the population.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
Nothus posted:Yet another group of morons who weren't listening to what Trump was saying during the campaign. I don't like the knee-jerk 'idiot trump supporters deserve it' dismissal when a group of immigrants that voted GOP wake up and realize Trump's policies on ICE threaten them. It's victim-blaming; being mislead and manipulated and human doesn't mean they deserve exile (or worse). The same thing came up with the dude near South Bend. I don't care who they voted for, they're human loving beings and if jackboots are marching on their doors it's our /duty/ to stand in the way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:Have Macron's approval ratings in France gotten better? Last I saw they were Trump level or worse. yeah they've cratered. and when you make people think the responsible parties won't listen to them, crazy fascists start looking better to them. that's why i'm hopeful he pulls his head out of his rear end and actually does good things for france and not for the ultra rich (did i mention he's trying to lower taxes on the rich?)
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
It's going to be really cool when traditional democratic forces beat republicans in the house and for the presidency.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
Uglycat posted:I don't like the knee-jerk 'idiot trump supporters deserve it' dismissal when a group of immigrants that voted GOP wake up and realize Trump's policies on ICE threaten them. It's victim-blaming; being mislead and manipulated and human doesn't mean they deserve exile (or worse). The same thing came up with the dude near South Bend. I don't care who they voted for, they're human loving beings and if jackboots are marching on their doors it's our /duty/ to stand in the way. They don't "deserve it," it's just an object lesson. Doesn't matter how much of a Republican voting "model minority" you are, when the knives come out non-white people are the first ones on the chopping block and the state level Republicans who owe their seats to you won't give a poo poo. Lotta Hispanic people need to be reading this article.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:Have Macron's approval ratings in France gotten better? Last I saw they were Trump level or worse. Macron's approval ratings are really low and most people don't think he'll fix France's problems, but the defeat of the FN seems to have made more people optimistic. Hellblazer187 posted:Can someone tell me why we're supposed to think she's a corncob or whatever? I know she was a prosecutor, but so what? Was there anything in particular about her a prosecutor that makes her subject to enhanced scrutiny? I've just heard people say "oh, when I found out about her time as a prosecutor...!" and whenever I ask what specifically I've gotten silence. Maybe it's just that the thread moves fast, I'm certainly open to reading anything you might have to tell me about her. But I have a feeling a large portion of the "I'm afraid she's a secret rightist" is actually "I'm afraid that she's openly a woman." People single her out for the same reason there's a huge storm of anger over Deval Patrick and Corey Booker, IMO. They seek to tear down any generally center-left candidates that aren't Bernie Sanders or whatever neo-Bernie they latch onto, so that the minority voters who rejected Sanders in 2016 will be forced to vote for him/his successor because the alternatives are grotesques like Cuomo and Zuckerberg.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
Condiv posted:yeah they've cratered. and when you make people think the responsible parties won't listen to them, crazy fascists start looking better to them. that's why i'm hopeful he pulls his head out of his rear end and actually does good things for france and not for the ultra rich (did i mention he's trying to lower taxes on the rich?) The funny thing about Macron is that he was literally a Rothschild banker. The conspiracy theories practically write themselves.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
Condiv posted:she thought it was a good idea to throw parents in jail for their children's truancy, she refused to prosecute the criminal actions of a bank that one of trump's goblins owned (and he donated to her campaign, and only hers of all dems afterwards), and her department argued against releasing inmates ordered released because california needed the cheap labor Well, thanks for answering. I'll have to do some research into each of these to how important I find each and how responsible I find her for each of them. But it's an answer, at least. She's doing A-OK as a Senator right now though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
TheRat posted:The funny thing about Macron is that he was literally a Rothschild banker. The conspiracy theories practically write themselves. Don't even joke about this poo poo, dumb antisemitic bullshit doesn't need to be perpetuated by the left when conservatives happily use it as a bludgeon against any pro-Palestinian movements.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Nothus posted:Yet another group of morons who weren't listening to what Trump was saying during the campaign. No, the problem isn't that these groups didn't listen to what Trump said. The problem is that they listened to the one thing he said to them and didn't look at the total message. His entire message was telling you what you wanted to hear if it made you cheer, and that made people cheer. Those people were then super happy about cheering and didn't listen to him sell the next group a bill of goods or realize that the horrible thing that really made them concerned before they started cheering was what he was telling everyone else before he got them to cheer too. Same thing with coal country. Hillary was all talking about how coal was dead and how they needed to learn new things, but Trump swept through and told them he was raising coal from the dead and it was going to be even more golden than ever. Which is what they focused on while he promised to do so by poisoning their water, destroying their land, and stealing their feeble safety supports.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Don't even joke about this poo poo, dumb antisemitic bullshit doesn't need to be perpetuated by the left when conservatives happily use it as a bludgeon against any pro-Palestinian movements. My point wasn't that it had any actual meaning, but that it was something that was really easy for nutters to latch on to.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Condiv posted:very disagreed. the bully pulpit has power, and we need someone who's willing to use it to advocate for leftism I'm saying we're missing the underlying organization and institutions to meaningfully get that. Compared to the Republicans, we are lacking a broad ecosystem of organizations that shape and shift politics. We need stronger organizations working on indoctrinating children (like republicans do), we need stronger organizations who are working on 10-20 year plans to ideologically shift districts (like republicans do), we need more numerous attempts to ingrain leftism into our culture through artifacts and institutions (like Republicans do), etc. Likewise look to the left in Europe and where they have power they have a society and a culture that's been acclimated to leftism and have the institutions to back it that extend well past electioneering. I believe in the power of the bully pulpit, but we won't get a leftist into power until we create the cultural and social space for those victories. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Sep 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:Well, thanks for answering. I'll have to do some research into each of these to how important I find each and how responsible I find her for each of them. But it's an answer, at least. She's doing A-OK as a Senator right now though. i hope her pushes for medicare for all are sincere, but i'm glad for it even if they aren't cause the more people saying we need UHC/medicare for all/healthcare is a human right, the more acceptable those ideas become to the public at large. i really hope she's had a change of heart though and i can count her as one of the good options for 2020 Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Don't even joke about this poo poo, dumb antisemitic bullshit doesn't need to be perpetuated by the left when conservatives happily use it as a bludgeon against any pro-Palestinian movements. Dude, can you just stop posting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Macron#Investment_Banker quote:In September 2008, Macron left his job as an Inspector of Finances and took a position at Rothschild & Cie Banque.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
moostaffa posted:Dude, can you just stop posting? Gotta say that posting this after yelling at someone for being a know-nothing seems rather ironic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:Edit: Corollary question: I know there are some Europeans in this thread. Would anything make you consider moving to the US? gently caress. No.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
TheRat posted:My point wasn't that it had any actual meaning, but that it was something that was really easy for nutters to latch on to. I know, it's just annoying. They're trying to criminalize BDS in the US right now and accusations of antisemitism towards the left are commonplace, jokes like this add fuel to the fire. It's the same reason why using "globalism" instead of globalization is dumb, it's a right-wing buzzword with a bunch of lovely racist connotations. moostaffa posted:Dude, can you just stop posting? lol gently caress off, that's not what I meant and you know it. The fact that he literally worked for the bank wasn't the point, the joking connection to conspiracy theory garbage was.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:I'm saying we're missing the underlying organization and institutions to meaningfully get that. i disagree, we nearly had an fdr-style democrat as our nominee in 2016, so i think there's a real thirst for leftism in general right now. but in any case, the organizations and institutions for that kind of stuff are being built right now. people are getting more involved than they were before, as you can see with DSA membership swelling and such. hopefully we have a good leftist presence in 2018 and 2020 and dems win back a lot of power and actually start fixing the problems with america
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
Why are people bringing up Deval Patrick? It doesn't really seem like he's made any moves whatsoever for a 2020 nomination like Booker and Harris, and yet he constantly gets lumped in with those two and as far as I can tell the only presence he's had for the last few months was 'encouraged by Obama to run'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
Condiv posted:i disagree, we nearly had an fdr-style democrat as our nominee in 2016, so i think there's a real thirst for leftism in general right now. but in any case, the organizations and institutions for that kind of stuff are being built right now. people are getting more involved than they were before, as you can see with DSA membership swelling and such. "fdr-style democrat" "leftism" Um.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
Furnaceface posted:Imagine all that political drama, and now apply it to each state in the USA when climate change starts making some states similarly uninhabitable. We answered our question of withdrawal from the union. EU is on much shakier ground as a political union.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
Condiv posted:i disagree, we nearly had an fdr-style democrat as our nominee in 2016, so i think there's a real thirst for leftism in general right now. but in any case, the organizations and institutions for that kind of stuff are being built right now. people are getting more involved than they were before, as you can see with DSA membership swelling and such. Remember that FDR wanted to save capitalism from socialism. I agree some of those institutions are being strengthened now, but I'm arguing that's where the focus should be because that's where we will win or lose. We need a good leftist presence every single day in America. Leftism isn't limited to electioneering and overly focusing on it has been to our disadvantage.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
William Contraalto posted:"fdr-style democrat" what exactly is the problem? not what you'd typically consider leftist?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
Hellblazer187 posted:From like 1950 to (??) the United States was the most powerful and influential nation in the world. Maybe at times the Soviet Union was there too - they beat us into space, we beat them to the moon, whatever. Those were the two superpowers. I'm saying we definitely are a superpower still and that makes your original post about how our society is poo poo and our worker protections are garbage all the more embarrassing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:I'm saying we definitely are a superpower still and that makes your original post about how our society is poo poo and our worker protections are garbage all the more embarrassing. This makes no sense at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Condiv posted:what exactly is the problem? not what you'd typically consider leftist? Treating FDR as a leftist is historically ignorant hagiography that pushes an anti-democratic understanding of politics.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
While all the active posters are telling each-other not to post, I'd like to take the time to yell at the lurkers. Yeah, you. Fucker. Post.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Remember that FDR wanted to save capitalism from socialism. i'm not disagreeing that we need more focus on those institutions, but pretending a left-leaning president wouldn't help even without those is silly. a left-leaning president could actually help build those institutions! as for fdr, yeah. i'm not as far left as some people like to pretend i am. i'm not full communism now at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:I'm saying we definitely are a superpower still and that makes your original post about how our society is poo poo and our worker protections are garbage all the more embarrassing. Societal inequality and rot and military power aren't mutually exclusive, you can be a military superpower, even the military superpower, and still have lovely worker protections and a crumbling civil society.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:I'm saying we definitely are a superpower still and that makes your original post about how our society is poo poo and our worker protections are garbage all the more embarrassing. More embarrassing for the US, you mean? If we're still a superpower, then why can't we have UHC and real worker protections? Why is our infrastructure more like the infrastructure in Latin America than like the infrastructure in Europe and Japan?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 13:08 |
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:It's going to be really cool when traditional democratic forces beat republicans in the house and for the presidency. Is this some kind of "gently caress leftists" post or am I reading into "traditional" too much?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2017 21:04
|
|