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GreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question, why would you reject a much better than other alternatives job offer in the States (other than the mentioned but apparently secondary "Trump terminates UK work visas because they built one too many wind turbines near his golf course or served him steak with a hint of non-black colour" problem)? If you're well off it's not, and won't be*, any meaningful amount more of a hellscape than it was two years ago. This is an extremely selfish way to look at the world and its unfortunate that you are probably not alone in thinking like this. e: taxed twice in one day http://i.imgur.com/T47IAkI.gifv
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Sep 4, 2017 22:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question, why would you reject a much better than other alternatives job offer in the States (other than the mentioned but apparently secondary "Trump terminates UK work visas because they built one too many wind turbines near his golf course or served him steak with a hint of non-black colour" problem)? If you're well off it's not, and won't be*, any meaningful amount more of a hellscape than it was two years ago. I would legit be scared of living in the US, and I held that opinion before Trump became president too. The amount of violence, crime and murder is absurd. If I managed to ignore that, I still wouldn't want to live in a country where workers rights and social/medical safety meant nothing.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:20
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A white dude with the ability to emigrate to another western country professionally isn't likely to have to worry about healthcare costs etc. Just ask most European professionals in the US - they're likely making more than back home even net costs. Talking about emigrating abroad due to political beliefs is pretty silly.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:20
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I mean, a swastika is just two angular S why do people overthink them
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Sep 4, 2017 22:21
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shrike82 posted:A white dude with the ability to emigrate to another western country professionally isn't likely to have to worry about healthcare costs etc. Just ask most European professionals in the US - they're likely making more than back home even net costs. "Likely"
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Sep 4, 2017 22:22
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Is there not already a cottage industry of indigent terminally sick people buying up the debt of others in exchange for assistance paying for palliative care so the debt is canceled when they die?  My accounting brain is pretty sure there's not a way to do this on a larger coordinated scale that isn't hilariously illegal But what if there is
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Sep 4, 2017 22:22
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pumpinglemma posted:
Or cause, you know, you're too low class to be able to afford to move. I'd have gotten the gently caress out some time ago, if I could. Maybe I'll just go run off into the middle of the woods miles from the nearest humans.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:23
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TheRat posted:I would legit be scared of living in the US, and I held that opinion before Trump became president too. The amount of violence, crime and murder is absurd. If I managed to ignore that, I still wouldn't want to live in a country where workers rights and social/medical safety meant nothing. Okay yeah, I phrased the central question wrong and buried the caveat: why wouldn't one move here for a relocation offer that would be good in Generic Developed Country, that wouldn't have been true two years ago?
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Sep 4, 2017 22:23
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Calaveron posted:I mean, a swastika is just two angular S why do people overthink them I'm gonna go ahead and guess the people drawing them on average aren't terribly bright.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:25
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shrike82 posted:A white dude with the ability to emigrate to another western country professionally isn't likely to have to worry about healthcare costs etc. Just ask most European professionals in the US - they're likely making more than back home even net costs. Do you still think it's ok to call people "Muzzies"?
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Sep 4, 2017 22:25
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Condiv posted:why can't they be charged with those crimes instead of criminalizing truancy? cause the law does in fact criminalize truancy itself, which as i said before doesn't make a lot of sense. if the kids are being abused, etc, then the parents can go to jail for that Well, you could look at the fact that child abuse law in California is harshly written and applied, and create intermediate misdemeanor charges that can be used instead of putting someone away for 2 years with a felony charge (and the prospect of three-strikes laws), so that there's a spectrum of responses that can be used if the situation is one where legal intervention is warranted, along with the parental support parts of the truancy toolkit.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:26
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Condiv posted:why can't they be charged with those crimes instead of criminalizing truancy? cause the law does in fact criminalize truancy itself, which as i said before doesn't make a lot of sense. if the kids are being abused, etc, then the parents can go to jail for that So like say you're a severely mentally ill single parent that has severe paranoid delusions, but you can hang in society juuuust barely well enough that you are hanging on to some poo poo job and you are raising a kid. And you get a serious paranoid delusion about your kid's school and decide to no longer allow your child to attend school. But you don't hit your kid and you still feed them dinner and poo poo, you just make sure they never see anyone except for you. You lie to the school and say your child is very ill, because you know that will get you at least a few weeks. I suppose you could get really nitty gritty about your exact definition of child abuse, and codify it into the child abuse law, or you could just criminalize chronic truancy. AFAIK the CA law only has criminal penalties for parents of kids that are absent for more than 10% of the school year. That comes out to missing about a month of school. Even then, most districts (like mine) have an attendance policy that requires trying to mediate the situation with parent-student-staff meetings and home and hospital teachers (even without doctor's notes) before referring the situation to law enforcement.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:26
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Grapplejack posted:I'm glad you found something good, at least, and you aren't stuck teaching English like most expats. thanks, i'm really thankful i got this chance. i always dreamed of living somewhere cooler, where it's green a lot and it rains, and i'm very glad to live in that kind of environment now. the air here also seems to be better for my lungs than the air in oklahoma was, so i'm grateful for that too
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Sep 4, 2017 22:27
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pumpinglemma posted:This is late, but I've actually had to think about this carefully. I'm a computer scientist in the UK currently looking for a long-term job as I come to the end of a successful postdoc (think short-term contract). Long-term jobs are incredibly hard to get, always require moving, often require moving country, and the US is a very good source of them. Visas are easy to get for STEM research jobs, and they generally come with good enough insurance that healthcare isn't an issue. Two years ago I would have absolutely loved a tenure-track position in one of the major US universities in my field, even in a red state. And despite all that, now I genuinely can't think of a remotely plausible job offer good enough to convince me to move there. Like, maybe a chair at MIT. And only then if I could be sure Trump wouldn't retroactively invalidate my right to remain, which I consider a serious risk. Meanwhile, I'd seriously consider any offer in western Europe even though my only non-English non-dead language is half-remembered school French. (Maybe not Greece, but only because every time I check their economy is imploding so badly it might take the Eurozone down with it.) Thanks for the input. This has been something that's been weighing on me for a while. We were all set to move to the US - we got the visa, sold a bunch of our stuff, etc. We're just kind of killing time right now while we figure out the next thing.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:27
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Condiv posted:thanks, i'm really thankful i got this chance. i always dreamed of living somewhere cooler, where it's green a lot and it rains, and i'm very glad to live in that kind of environment now. the air here also seems to be better for my lungs than the air in oklahoma was, so i'm grateful for that too Oh, you're from Oklahoma? I suddenly have slightly more sympathy for your abrasiveness. 
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Sep 4, 2017 22:28
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Child labor laws, meanwhile, have a minimum fine of $5,000 for violating work-hour restrictions, which can be applied to parents or guardians who knowingly violate these laws. Which is again, pretty drat harsh to lay onto poor people.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:30
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What's interesting between now and seven months ago is that the responses then to shit_that_didn't_happen.txt tweets like this were usually some variation of "a dozen bots chanting #MAGA", a midwestern housewife going "you got this, Mr. President! We all believe in you!" and two different guys linking to their trump merch stores. Now it's nonstop people clowning him. I know Putin turned off the spigot for a lot of the bot love, but even the few pro-trumpers that make it through to the comments get laughed out of their own subthreads. Obviously a twitter chain is not the be-all, end-all of a turning point, but it strikes me that in seven months we've got enough vociferously anti-Trump people on Twitter to make even the President's own twitter a bad place to be if you're a kool-aid drinking MAGACHUD
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Sep 4, 2017 22:31
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Koalas March posted:Do you still think it's ok to call people "Muzzies"? Yes that's French these kids are speaking. No they aren't French, they're American.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:31
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William Contraalto posted:Well, you could look at the fact that child abuse law in California is harshly written and applied, and create intermediate misdemeanor charges that can be used instead of putting someone away for 2 years with a felony charge (and the prospect of three-strikes laws), so that there's a spectrum of responses that can be used if the situation is one where legal intervention is warranted, along with the parental support parts of the truancy toolkit. so first you're angry cause you think i don't want to punish child abusers, now you've switched to this being an opportunity to be more lenient on child abuse? how about this, a law like this would easily be exploited to jail minority parents. and the judicial system and jail would put those parents at a lot of risk (job loss, death, injury, and more). koalas march already gave you an anecdotal example from her life. now imagine if her mom could've been jailed for her truancy. do you really think this is worth risking people like her mom being put in jail? Hawkgirl posted:So like say you're a severely mentally ill single parent that has severe paranoid delusions, but you can hang in society juuuust barely well enough that you are hanging on to some poo poo job and you are raising a kid. And you get a serious paranoid delusion about your kid's school and decide to no longer allow your child to attend school. But you don't hit your kid and you still feed them dinner and poo poo, you just make sure they never see anyone except for you. You lie to the school and say your child is very ill, because you know that will get you at least a few weeks. I suppose you could get really nitty gritty about your exact definition of child abuse, and codify it into the child abuse law, or you could just criminalize chronic truancy. AFAIK the CA law only has criminal penalties for parents of kids that are absent for more than 10% of the school year. That comes out to missing about a month of school. Even then, most districts (like mine) have an attendance policy that requires trying to mediate the situation with parent-student-staff meetings and home and hospital teachers (even without doctor's notes) before referring the situation to law enforcement. how is throwing this parent in jail helping anything? don't you think that would make the parent crazier, what with how traumatic jail is? how about mental health assistance instead? Condiv fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 4, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2017 22:32
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Uglycat posted:While all the active posters are telling each-other not to post, I'd like to take the time to yell at the lurkers. My outlook on the future of this country is more pessimistic than Covok's. Lurking is the better option by far.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:33
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All of this points to the big structural issue that writing new crimes is easier than loosening standards on punishing existing crimes, because of the interest groups that are obsessed with law, order, and social control and who hold a great deal of political power. Which is also extremely relevant to issues like the War on Drugs.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:34
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botany posted:sorry to come back to north korea for a second, but this is a really good if incredibly bleak article: It's a good interview, but nothing we didn't know already. I think it also misses the point of how much penetration outside media has in NK by now. May be elite NK students don't have bootleg USBs with SK and US entertainment, but from what I have read it's uncommon among the NK masses.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:34
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William Contraalto posted:Well, you could look at the fact that child abuse law in California is harshly written and applied, and create intermediate misdemeanor charges that can be used instead of putting someone away for 2 years with a felony charge (and the prospect of three-strikes laws), so that there's a spectrum of responses that can be used if the situation is one where legal intervention is warranted, along with the parental support parts of the truancy toolkit. It's fuckin hard to prove and convict child abuse too. "Mild" neglect and emotional abuse type stuff (like, for example, preventing your kid from attending school) is basically unprovable, or at best takes literal years to even accumulate enough evidence to charge on, at which point the problem is solved because the poor kid is 16+. I teach in California and I have had many students be absent from school for a month or more for a variety of reasons, many of them total bullshit or nonexistent. None of my kids' parents have gone to jail over it. I am not surprised to hear Koalas' story though.  I would not be surprised if there are similar stories in California about the law being applied unjustly and unequally. What Koalas described would NOT be an acceptable circumstance to refer to law enforcement in my district. Not that I don't believe it happened, just that it shouldn't have. But that's not a problem with the law IMO, that's a problem with racism.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:35
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Hellblazer187 posted:How many of y'all would move to western Europe if the legal immigration part of it were easier? On the other hand, I've been travelling around Europe for a year, and I would move to southern France, Spain, Italy or Portugal pretty much immediately if Brexit hadn't hosed everything up and made it impossible to know what the situation will be long-term. 
Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 4, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2017 22:35
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Flapjack Monty posted:My outlook on the future of this country is more pessimistic than Covok's. Lurking is the better option by far. Another one for the "Yellowstone goes off in October" bucket
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Sep 4, 2017 22:36
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pokie posted:It's a good interview, but nothing we didn't know already. I think it also misses the point of how much penetration outside media has in NK by now. May be elite NK students don't have bootleg USBs with SK and US entertainment, but from what I have read it's uncommon among the NK masses. So what you're saying is that we should be aiming for a cultural victory
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Sep 4, 2017 22:37
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Kubrick posted:Very true. The difference is that in other threads we don't have to sort through ~800 posts a day to find the good ones. My thumb is so tired from scrolling
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Sep 4, 2017 22:37
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Hawkgirl posted:It's fuckin hard to prove and convict child abuse too. "Mild" neglect and emotional abuse type stuff (like, for example, preventing your kid from attending school) is basically unprovable, or at best takes literal years to even accumulate enough evidence to charge on, at which point the problem is solved because the poor kid is 16+. Smelly kid's got a good chance at being sexually abused.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:38
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:What's interesting between now and seven months ago is that the responses then to shit_that_didn't_happen.txt tweets like this were usually some variation of "a dozen bots chanting #MAGA", a midwestern housewife going "you got this, Mr. President! We all believe in you!" and two different guys linking to their trump merch stores. Four years ago. The worst part is that his twittershitting hasn't changed 
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Sep 4, 2017 22:40
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Condiv posted:so first you're angry cause you think i don't want to punish child abusers, now you've switched to this being an opportunity to be more lenient on child abuse? No, I posted about how your standards, the line of thinking you were using, namely that separating children from parents is inherently bad as a reason to oppose this law, leads to some bad places. Now I am posting about how these laws are broadly in line with efforts to make rehabilitative justice a larger part of California's legal system. There's no contradiction here unless you're stupid enough to believe that everything is binary. All laws will be exploited to target minorities disproportionately. That's what living in an unjust system means. However, because these laws are written in a context to discourage legal intervention, it seems difficult to say that they are more disproportionately aimed at minorities than, say, assault and battery laws are (and assault and battery laws are disproportionately targeted at minorities, let's be clear). So this line of argument is not really compelling as a reason to specifically attack these laws, because the problem it highlights is not the existence of these laws, it's the structural and environmental racism of California's school system and the individual racism of Californian teachers.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:41
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William Contraalto posted:All of this points to the big structural issue that writing new crimes is easier than loosening standards on punishing existing crimes, because of the interest groups that are obsessed with law, order, and social control and who hold a great deal of political power. Which is also extremely relevant to issues like the War on Drugs. Wouldnt that basically be the private prison system? They have a ton of money to throw at politicians and racism to fuel public support.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:41
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GreyjoyBastard posted:
There was a story on Reddit's legal advice forum where somebody described how the state government of South Dakota pulled a list of all residents with student loans, bought their debt, then unilaterally applied new repayment terms and demanded the debtor pay an increased amount or lose their driver's license. All of this is completely legal. So after reading that I now think anything's possible.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:43
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Koalas March posted:Well since it's on topic, it's sharing time again. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I agree that getting the cops involved in bullying-related truancy is not going to help anything. My sister went through the same thing, and probably missed half of 4th grade. What did help her was an actually sympathetic school nurse raising a flag that eventually got her a therapist to deal with her own anxiety and got her back on track, and taught my mom some parenting skills that helped all of us out. Now as an adult, my job makes me a mandatory reporter so I am required by law to report ANY suspected child abuse or neglect, and constant absences like yours and my sister's are one of the things they train us to look out for that something is wrong-- even though in neither case was the parent actually at fault, for my sister it still eventually found the root issue. All teachers, nurses, etc are mandatory reporters. We don't report to the cops, though, but a social worker who is better equipped to deal with these things. The CA chronic truancy policy I'm talking about does include jail time as one potential punishment, but (unlike that case linked above, which is from PA) is very specifically written so that time served is delayed and then cancelled (and charges erased) by following a treatment program that may include physical or mental health services, parenting classes, case management, or meeting with school officials-- jail only happens if the parent resists all change, which would probably only happen if they were really neglectful in general. It also recommends that the first step be that teachers actually talk to and work with parents, and gives them language to do so, rather than ignoring the kid, writing them off as bad, or calling the police. The policy was introduced as a way to prevent students from falling behind and eventually dropping out, because someone without a high school diploma is statistically more likely to spend life in and out of jail. I think it goes in the right direction.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:43
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Furnaceface posted:Wouldnt that basically be the private prison system? They have a ton of money to throw at politicians and racism to fuel public support. Private prisons, cops, well-off white people, the criminal justice system generally, white people generally, politicians, and well-off people generally, in more or less descending order of support, I think.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:43
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Condiv posted:how about this, a law like this would easily be exploited to jail minority parents. and the judicial system and jail would put those parents at a lot of risk (job loss, death, injury, and more). koalas march already gave you an anecdotal example from her life. now imagine if her mom could've been jailed for her truancy. do you really think this is worth risking people like her mom being put in jail? Koalas isn't from California, though like I said there's certainly evidence of Californians bending laws to be dicks to minorities. But our California law as written would not have allowed her scenario. Koalas, I assume your school would contact your mom and vice versa about your absences. quote:how is throwing this parent in jail helping anything? don't you think that would make the parent crazier, what with how traumatic jail is? how about mental health assistance instead? I'm not a lawyer for sure but it's my understanding that the law is supposed to (supposed to) be applied more leniently than what you are implying. No school is calling law enforcement, saying "this kid hasn't been at school for a month. Go arrest their parents." This is a long-term, involved procedure that can theoretically end in jail time for a parent if it is deemed appropriate and necessary. Here's the relevant part of CA ed code: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=EDC&division=4.&title=2.&part=27.&chapter=2.&article=5. You have to go through a LOT of steps before even being allowed to notify law enforcement about a truant kid.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:43
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Furnaceface posted:Wouldnt that basically be the private prison system? They have a ton of money to throw at politicians and racism to fuel public support. It isn't just private prisons. It is police and the providers of police equipment. It is politicians who want to look "tough on crime". It is the bail bondsman. It is lawyers too. Think about the Criminal Justice system. Break it down step by step. Each of those steps and the people who supply for those steps have a vested interest in the status quo.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:45
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Mustached Demon posted:Smelly kid's got a good chance at being sexually abused. Not always, and also, prove it. William Contraalto posted:All laws will be exploited to target minorities disproportionately. That's what living in an unjust system means. However, because these laws are written in a context to discourage legal intervention, it seems difficult to say that they are more disproportionately aimed at minorities than, say, assault and battery laws are (and assault and battery laws are disproportionately targeted at minorities, let's be clear). So this line of argument is not really compelling as a reason to specifically attack these laws, because the problem it highlights is not the existence of these laws, it's the structural and environmental racism of California's school system and the individual racism of Californian teachers. Not that we aren't racist shits, but in this case it would be the individual racism of Californian school district support and office staff.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:47
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Hawkgirl posted:Not always, and also, prove it. You're right, I should have written that. Sorry!
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Sep 4, 2017 22:48
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AceOfFlames posted:So no "game theory". That was the first thing I tried.) You're not missing anything, that thread was poo poo and the OP was awful
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Sep 4, 2017 22:49
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Payndz posted:but the whole angry, ARE FREEDUMS God 'n' guns 'n' flag thing is an utterly alien mindset
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