|
multijoe posted:I think things would have worked out alot better if Coop took Jeffries' fate as a cautionary tale and didn't go through the basement door. Like, just go settle down with Janey-E or Diane or catch up with Albert and Gordon. Just literally anything which isn't 'attempt to rewrite time in an act of hubris, yank a woman's soul out of heaven and maroon her in a tulpa dimension where she has to relive her suffering all over again', it was just a really bad idea I don't think Cooper's intention was to strand her in that dimension at all. I believe Cooper had the best of intentions, and hosed up because he failed to take into account how little he knew the nature and abilities of the entity that he was up against. Cooper's action come from an innate and sincerely desire to help - that is the most basic nature of the character. I find it difficult to feel too upset at him for sincerely trying to save Laura and everyone in Twin Peaks.
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:52 |
|
|
I was hoping James was going to sing at Booper and cause Bob to bust out
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
Sardonik posted:I read an interesting take last night about how the last episode was a literal rejection of the idea of reboots. That doing so is destructive to the source material and that the world has moved on. I think it's taking the idea of not being able to go home again to a very literal extreme. The whole show has been about moving on, or trying to. Cooper though seemingly can't. He has a happy ending. He's back in the world and everything gets tied up neatly, but he wants to put the genie back in the bottle and stop this one girl from ever dying. Likewise, the whole show has been Lynch saying that I love these characters and this place to, but it's not 1991 anymore. The world has moved on. Twin Peaks won't be Twin Peaks anymore because that time has passed. And all that people want is Cooper doing the same thing he's always done, so at the end that's what they get. Don't get me wrong I don't think that's Lynch being cynical really. I just think you can view it that way. I doubt he and Frost sat down and thought right, let's tell these people a thing or two about revisiting the past. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Sep 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:03
|
|
|
kaworu posted:I don't think Cooper's intention was to strand her in that dimension at all. I believe Cooper had the best of intentions, and hosed up because he failed to take into account how little he knew the nature and abilities of the entity that he was up against. Let's also not forget that Mike was in on this. Cooper hasn't acted against the will of the Lodge Spirits a single time, as far as we know. If he fucks up, they've hosed up as well. Can it be hubris if you're basically a messenger of the gods? moist turtleneck posted:I was hoping James was going to sing at Booper and cause Bob to bust out I'm slightly sad that James never carries an owl around. Owls in general were kind of missing from this season. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
Sardonik posted:I read an interesting take last night about how the last episode was a literal rejection of the idea of reboots. That doing so is destructive to the source material and that the world has moved on. My issue with that is that the reboot is awesome and got me to watch the old Twin Peaks in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
The Audrey stuff is indefensible. Pivotal my rear end. If Judy can just pluck Laura out of thin air at any time then... What?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
judy didn't do poo poo
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:I’m trying to think of how to explain the finale to my therapist (who I see on a weekly basis) without spoiling it because I think I got her interested enough to watch the show one of these days but I also want her to have a vague understanding of how nuts the finale was. "Hmm, very interseting" *Write down F43.21 - Adjustment disorder with depressed mood*
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
So, a few questions: 1- what was Bad Cooper mission, if he had one? 2- what happened with judy/mother/sarah? (if something happened) 3- what were the "two birds"? 4- WHICH YEAR IS THIS????
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
https://www.avclub.com/there-should-never-be-another-episode-of-twin-peaks-1799304744
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
snoremac posted:My issue with that is that the reboot is awesome and got me to watch the old Twin Peaks in the first place. A larger issue is that it's not a reboot at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
adamcantsleep posted:And can we just put a moratorium on "ugh if you don't like [x] in the new season, you just want cherry pie and memes and fanservice"? this
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:25
|
|
|
After reflection I still don't like the ending at all. It's way too grim dark for this show. Even god damned Fire Walk With Me had a brighter ending than this did. The only way this ending works for me is if it's a lead in to a season 4 and I feel like there's very little chance we get a season 4. That said I did enjoy the season a lot overall, so it wasn't a total waste. It's a bit of a sour note to go out on though, especially since this is likely all we ever get.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:28
|
|
|
Chinook posted:Dougie managed to bumble his way into lots of successes. Coop tries a lot harder and achieves very little. (Heck, Lucy and 'me destiny' dude managed to destroy Mr. C and Bob.) Dougie is such a god damned hero. I loved this about Dougie and I think it's hilarious that Bob Cooper is the opposite, just bumbling his way into failure over and over again as every assassin and associate he deploys fails miserably. His smug look when he's talking to Truman followed by Lucy and Freddie just totally clowning him is great.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
kaworu posted:I don't think Cooper's intention was to strand her in that dimension at all. I believe Cooper had the best of intentions, and hosed up because he failed to take into account how little he knew the nature and abilities of the entity that he was up against. He clearly didn't mean to do it on purpose, but he went up against a being of incomprehensible scope and power which has already removed one of his colleagues from existence with Laura's, Diane's and his own souls on the lines and somehow didn't come out on top. Even if he meant well, his arrogance and unwarranted faith in his own abilities has had terrible consequences and actively destroyed what little peace Laura had, it doesn't reflect terrible well on Coop.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:After reflection I still don't like the ending at all. It's way too grim dark for this show. Even god damned Fire Walk With Me had a brighter ending than this did. The only way this ending works for me is if it's a lead in to a season 4 and I feel like there's very little chance we get a season 4. 'Grimdark' usually implies the darkness isn't earned, or is only there to be 'edgy'. I personally wouldn't say any of that applies to this ending at all. And yeah, dark endings are usually Lynch's thing, or at least mixed ones. See: TP season 2, Lost Highway, Mulholland Dr. Eraserhead, FWWM, and Blue Velvet's endings are mixed/bittersweet at best. hahaha I just realised Inland Empire might be the only Lynch movie with - to my recollection - a properly happy ending.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:49
|
|
|
Okay i found peace with the conclusion that Cooper tried to save Laura (either to confront mother or to save her). This didn't work so he tries to go to a different dimension. But like diane said, everything can be different. Which is the case. Nothing has to do with the original story any more. People live different lives. However, Richard still has lingering memories of the previous dimension and goes out to save laura. She isn't really Laura but when in the final scene she sees the house and also out of the blue getting memories from different dimension Laura she remembers stuff and freaks out. She screams and has a mental break down probably. The shutting down of the lights is probably that. The end of the show, curtain call. Yes, this is pretty weak and gives no answers. I see episode 18 more as an epilogue than anything else. Doesn't explain stuff but I don't think all of what lynch is doing can be explained has a rational simply because he put it in there to invoke a feeling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
I feel like I'm in the minority but I don't really mind most of these "unanswered" "questions" because that was never really the point of Twin Peaks to me. Once the universe started to grow post Laura Palmer murder reveal, I started to care way less, almost not at all, about concrete answers to things and to just enjoy the emotional and visual (and frequently visceral) experience and world building.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:'Grimdark' usually implies the darkness isn't earned, or is only there to be 'edgy'. I personally wouldn't say any of that applies to this ending at all. And yeah, dark endings are usually Lynch's thing, or at least mixed ones. See: TP season 2, Lost Highway, Mulholland Dr. Eraserhead, FWWM, and Blue Velvet's endings are mixed/bittersweet at best. I don't think the darkness was earned. It was a bit out of left field to be honest. The other 17 episodes (and seasons 1/2) were mostly bittersweet. This ending was just bitter. Too many unanswered questions, and way too big a failure on Cooper's part. It's like if Luke blew up with the Deathstar too after Vader died, or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:01
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:I don't think the darkness was earned. It was a bit out of left field to be honest. The other 17 episodes (and seasons 1/2) were mostly bittersweet. This ending was just bitter. Too many unanswered questions, and way too big a failure on Cooper's part. And all the ewoks and leia and han stood around staring at each other in bewilderment before disappearing before the last 20 minutes of the movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:04
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:I feel like I'm in the minority but I don't really mind most of these "unanswered" "questions" because that was never really the point of Twin Peaks to me. Once the universe started to grow post Laura Palmer murder reveal, I started to care way less, almost not at all, about concrete answers to things and to just enjoy the emotional and visual (and frequently visceral) experience and world building. Cromulent fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
I enjoyed this show and it's ambiguity and don't feel like it needs traditional closure but I'm not a fan of alternative timelines and time travel. This is what Nancy Reagan really was saying no to. She was ok with drugs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
I dont agree Cooper robbed Laura from her redemption. I know the end o FWWM show her in peace and redeemed, but I always understood that as something that is still to happen (on judgment day?). S3 show Laura still trapped at the black lodge, and that' s what Cooper tries to save her from. I do agree it seems like he failed
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
I wonder how the finale would have felt if it ended on Episode 17 with Coop walking into the basement of the Great Northern, talking to Jeffries, and then winking out of existence and NOT showing anything else with him appearing to Laura in the woods. Would that feel more or less complete, I wonder, just a final example of Cooper diving back into worlds he doesn't understand, this time with his eyes wide open. Ep18 is more and more becoming Ep1 of Season 4 to me, a new beginning for a new story. So, in that sense it's absolutely growing on me as a genius move. I think S3 was amazing from start to finish, but I've been wrestling with very mixed (strong) emotions from Ep18. Letting it be a teaser for a TV show that may never get made feels better than letting it be the final word on a beloved series that already has been made.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
kaworu posted:I don't think Cooper's intention was to strand her in that dimension at all. I believe Cooper had the best of intentions, and hosed up because he failed to take into account how little he knew the nature and abilities of the entity that he was up against. Isn't that precisely where the dramatic consequences of the show are played out? The best intentions lead to the biggest tragedies. Cause tragedy is at it's base filled with ironic reversals etc (Oedipus). The pathetic 'what year is this?' question at the end is the other side of coin the boisterous 'I am FBI'. The man with the plan finds itself without the most simple elements of a basic cognitive mapping. This dissonance is intended and the message seems to be clear: no ammount of planning will garantee you a final victory, and preparation should focus above all on countermeasures for unforseen contingencies. Think Memento style tactics for trying to maintain a proper grounding. This is why Diane is so reticent to go through the «dimension jump» whereas Cooper pulls through seemingly based only on his self-confidence. On the mythos level I think Cooper ends up again as a puppet in the yin-yang fight of Mother and the Fireman's crew. Laura's sacrifice represents a kind breaking of the wheel, even if at a terrible cost for herself, she was predistined to somehow 'bring balance to the force', but rejects it with the one armed man's help. But Cooper's good intentions and blind faith on intuition and good will leads him to be manipulated again and again by forces beyond his grasp. The only problem I have with this relating to Season 3 is that is pretty much seems like a repeat of the narrative from the previous arch. We already had a sort of good ending at with Fire Walk with Me, and this new ending feels like a plain repeating of the Season 2 one. I don't completely put it past Lynch to troll people like this, and to go ahead and end it on a such a Nihilistic tone. But I'm probably wrong here and there's elements of some progression hidden in the midst of all that repetition.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
mary had a little clam posted:Ep18 is more and more becoming Ep1 of Season 4 to me, a new beginning for a new story. So, in that sense it's absolutely growing on me as a genius move. I think S3 was amazing from start to finish, but I've been wrestling with very mixed (strong) emotions from Ep18. Letting it be a teaser for a TV show that may never get made feels better than letting it be the final word on a beloved series that already has been made. In a way you're right, remeber the sideways infinity symbol Jeffries blows out to Cooper before he jumps, signaling that the ending is already a new beginning. Lynch's stories always have a bit of this element, most notably in Lost Highway. But I don't like to assume this pressuposition that it's a promise of an actual future season/movie and that the authors left Twin Peak intentionally unfinished. If in fact there is no more Twin Peaks made we must assume the loop stuff is integral to the narrative and does not pressupose any more actual real content necessary to it's interpretation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
this season has been very meta and i am wondering if the ending is a warning about trying to revisit what was lost 25 years ago i dont think the ending was at all postitive. just is described as a being of negative energy. we can read that as entropy, in other words she is the tendancy for the universe to want to end given agency. at the end the lights switch out. shes won.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
TP: the Return was one hell of a ride and probably will be known for that mindfuck of an ending. I actually hated it at first but now I love it. It is a gloriously strange and unique ending. Twin Peaks is that at it's heart, and a large part of why we loved the original show. I think the ending has paid homage to it. I think it has transcended it. I legitimately consider this to be one of the most amazing things I have ever seen on television. It is a beautiful work of art. It had Ed and Norma, it had that sunny Waffles and Coffee scene, the Conga Line, it had Candie, and the old Jackpots Lady, cherry pie and the Mitchum Brothers, it had Wally Brando, it had Andy, Lucy, Hawk, and Good-Bobby, it even had the Return of Agent Dale Cooper. Then it had freaky or weird stuff that was amazing like Audrey's Dance and James creepy song, it had dark dimensions, freaky occurrences such as the zombie girl, all sorts of crazy surreal poo poo that was amazing to see (otherwise known as episode 8), it had the brutal menancing Mr. C, that over the top and metal as hell arm wrestling contest. It had the lodges and Time travel, and people removing their loving faces. It had too much of what I loved for me not to be in love with it. It was like drinking a delicious cup of coffee. From the bottom of my heart Twin Peaks. Thank you. You helped me dig my way out of the poo poo. And into the truth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
pasaluki posted:TP: the Return was one hell of a ride and probably will be known for that mindfuck of an ending. I actually hated it at first but now I love it. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
pasaluki posted:TP: the Return was one hell of a ride and probably will be known for that mindfuck of an ending. I actually hated it at first but now I love it.  I'm usually looking for answers but with this I'm struggling to relate to people who don't feel very much this way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
Fados posted:The pathetic 'what year is this?' question at the end is the other side of coin the boisterous 'I am FBI'. The man with the plan finds itself without the most simple elements of a basic cognitive mapping. This dissonance is intended and the message seems to be clear: no ammount of planning will garantee you a final victory, and preparation should focus above all on countermeasures for unforseen contingencies. The annoying part of this is that we spent 15 hours watching a lost Cooper, as Dougie, slowly finding himself. Then he immediately goes and gets lost again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
Does Cooper's ATM card work in the new universe? Does he still get an FBI paycheck?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
pasaluki posted:TP: the Return was one hell of a ride and probably will be known for that mindfuck of an ending. I actually hated it at first but now I love it. I'm so happy that Twin Peaks stayed Twin Peaks. It's an island of wonder and mystery in an ocean of lovely TV.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Before S3 began, I didint had any great expectations about it, but for some reason I was half expecting something more like S1, and banking heavily on nostalgia . I really like Lynch movies but only watched Twin Peaks on my teenage years, and my memories of it were a bit spoiled by the bad parts of S2 S3 was nothing like it, it was its own thing, very actual, very different, but very Twin Peaks at the same time. Each episode played with my expectations and then went on a completely surprising direction. I laughed a lot. A cried some. I felt scared, uncomfortable, hopeful, sad, happy, shocked, nostalgic, puzzled, amuzed. But I never felt really bored. I loved almost all the new characters, I loved seeing the old faces again. I was very impressed with Kyle, and pretty much all the acting was great. Ill remember so many scenes and lines and images of it for years and years. The ending was nothing I expected, but it was mind blowing as one could have expected it to be It was indeed one of the best thing Ive watched on TV in my entire my life
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
pasaluki posted:It had too much of what I loved for me not to be in love with it. It was like drinking a delicious cup of coffee. From the bottom of my heart Twin Peaks. Thank you. You helped me dig my way out of the poo poo. And into the truth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
moist turtleneck posted:Does Cooper's ATM card work in the new universe? Does he still get an FBI paycheck? Luckily, Richard has a very large trust fund.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
eSporks posted:Its like drinking a delicious cup of coffee and then getting to the bitter grounds at the bottom. You realize you should have stopped consuming sooner and your greed left a sour taste in your mouth tarnishing the whole experience. It's not about finishing the coffee, it's about enjoying it and savoring it. It is a coffee analogy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
Fados posted:Isn't that precisely where the dramatic consequences of the show are played out? The best intentions lead to the biggest tragedies. Cause tragedy is at it's base filled with ironic reversals etc (Oedipus). I think Machlachlan does a really good job of portraying yet another Cooper in the back half of the episode. He's a little colder and hits some of the middle ground between Mr C and Dale Cooper. He is after all someone else now. Part of that is that he seems so clueless and his repeated "I'm with the FBI" is unconvincing. When he questions the woman at the house at the end he's just asking the most rudimentary things, and doesn't seem to remember the name Chalfont (Though that's up do debate) given that he should know who they are. I think the ending hits a good middle ground between Frost and Lynch's sensibilities. Frost lays the solid groundwork for if you want to talk about portals or other dimensions or whatever, but Lynch provides the emotion to that, about not being able to take back all that horrific pain, because that's just part of life.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:Who would do that though? I would assume that Booper/the Chalfonts/other Lodge spirits are already aware of Mother's existence and appearance and such. The only other character we know of that knew about Mother (besides Sarah Palmer who was Mother's host) is Gordon Cole, and it really doesn't seem like the glass box operation was an FBI job. I think Booper's whole arc, his motivation, other than trying to stay alive was contacting Mother. Remember when he said pretty much that while showing the card to that poor girl he later shot? Maybe the box is his way to contact her. So if the point of the coordinates (I think that it was meant to lead to the Northern hotel if I'm not mistaken) was to go back in time, then Booper might have been doing so in an effort to reach Mother/stay alive? Maybe?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 17:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:52 |
|
|
Turdfuzz posted:i kinda like the end tho
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 18:04
|
|
