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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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XyrlocShammypants posted:So now we're back to exaggeration. 30 years of losing! Can I get 50? 50 over here now 50 over here. Can I get 75? 100 to the poster in the 20 State Strategy hoody What were the great, lasting achievements brought to life by Democratic leaders in the last 30 years? Things you can be proud of, things you can describe as framing achievements for Democratic identity?
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Sep 5, 2017 18:27
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XyrlocShammypants posted:So now we're back to exaggeration. 30 years of losing! Can I get 50? 50 over here now 50 over here. Can I get 75? 100 to the poster in the 20 State Strategy hoody It hasn't been a continuous stream of losing, but the Democrats really have lost way more important races over the past 30 years than they've won. Like, this shouldn't be a controversial point.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:28
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Majorian posted:He still managed to kneecap Hillary's campaign by letting it slip that, "Oh, she's TOTALLY onboard with TPP, she's just PRETENDING that she isn't to placate the Bernie Bros!" Which was one of the best examples of how terribly-run her campaign was. Holy God, what a shitshow. Haha yeah I imagine him saying that while holding a beer. For being run by a bunch of nerds feeding data into a computer, the entire campaign was such a disorganized mess.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:28
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Avirosb posted:Isn't that one of the credentials? So then centrist Democrats should probably stop talking about "electability," because clearly they've lost sight of who is and isn't electable in this country.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:29
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Life demanded Hillary lose.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:29
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I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:31
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Peachfart posted:I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit. good thing i'm apparently not far-left according to the trump thread  ditto the bernlord
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Sep 5, 2017 18:32
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steinrokkan posted:What were the great, lasting achievements brought to life by Democratic leaders in the last 30 years? Things you can be proud of, things you can describe as framing achievements for Democratic identity? We can trade, you can start by telling me what the great "true left" leaders in government have done for us outside of Portland. Maybe you can name a couple of people in the progressive caucus although I doubt it. Not like anyone here supported them before Super Tuesday anyway
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Sep 5, 2017 18:32
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Peachfart posted:I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit. fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage: you pro or anti, friend
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Sep 5, 2017 18:33
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Peachfart posted:I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit. What, exactly, were they supposed to be able to accomplish in the less-than-a-year since the election, when centrist pearl-clutchers in the DNC don't seem to want to budge an inch? Even with those constraints, they've made things like Medicare for All and a $15/hour minimum wage more or less the Democratic Party orthodoxy, so...
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Sep 5, 2017 18:33
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Condiv posted:the new deal Ah yes the new deal of 1997 was it? Since he asked what was accomplished in the last 30 years Shammypants fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 18:35
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XyrlocShammypants posted:We can trade, you can start by telling me what the great "true left" leaders in government have done for us outside of Portland. Maybe you can name a couple of people in the progressive caucus although I doubt it. Not like anyone here supported them before Super Tuesday anyway the new deal
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Sep 5, 2017 18:36
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XyrlocShammypants posted:This was accomplished where? Isolated unique pockets of America? Congratulations you're on your way to making an argument are you pro or anti, friend, was the question. would you care to answer it.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:36
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XyrlocShammypants posted:We can trade, you can start by telling me what the great "true left" leaders in government have done for us outside of Portland. Maybe you can name a couple of people in the progressive caucus although I doubt it. Not like anyone here supported them before Super Tuesday anyway You are defending the ruling faction of one of two relevant political parties for being more pragmatic than their opposition. If their achievements need to be compared with the disenfranchised, non-institutionalized, media-ignored faction that, as you said, was ignored until Super Tuesday, and that SPECIFICALLY ROSE TO RELEVANCE TO OPPOSE THE PRAGMATISTS, you are just proving my point. You have absolutely nothing to show for your massive infrastructure, resources and other advantages, It's time to surrender to the resurgent left.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:36
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steinrokkan posted:You are defending the ruling faction of one of two relevant political parties for being more pragmatic than their opposition. If their achievements need to be compared with the disenfranchised, non-institutionalized, media-ignored faction that, as you said, was ignored until Super Tuesday, and that SPECIFICALLY ROSE TO RELEVANCE TO OPPOSE THE PRAGMATISTS, you are just proving my point. You have absolutely nothing to show for your massive infrastructure, resources and other advantages, It's time to surrender to the resurgent left. This. When being able to suss out "electability" is the only thing that centrists claim to have going for them, and then it turns out that they're actually really bad at picking candidates who can win elections, welp...then there's not much reason to trust centrists with picking nominees or setting party strategy.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:39
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it's time the leftists had their say in the dem party once more. we need to return to our roots and have government programs that make people excited about the dems again not silly tax credits for job creators
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Sep 5, 2017 18:39
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Ze Pollack posted:are you pro or anti, friend, was the question. I ask because the far left you so despise spent the weekend pushing for its adoption in more places across the country. meanwhile, the Pragmatic Centrists rolled out a pinterest knock-off run by a fascist death squad veteran designed to help them win arguments on the internet. which of these, in your opinion, is a more productive use of the democratic party's time, effort, and money.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:40
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tired: tax credits for businesses to retrain people wired: a new WPA
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Sep 5, 2017 18:40
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How can anything be accomplished with a two-party system?
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Sep 5, 2017 18:41
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I live in Washington state, and was an advocate for immediate increase of the Seattle minimum wage to 15/hour instead of the gradual increase we got. Also, it should be tied to inflation like our state minimum wage is.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:42
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Just want to say that 'A Balanced Budget' is probably one of the stupidest accomplishments ever.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:43
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Peachfart posted:I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit. Leftists are doing a hell of a lot more to combat the rising tide of fascism than Hillary, Obama, Tim Kaine, or anyone of your centrist heroes
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Sep 5, 2017 18:43
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Peachfart posted:I live in Washington state, and was a advocate for immediate increase of the Seattle minimum wage to 15/hour instead of the gradual increase we got. Also, it should be tied to inflation like our state minimum wage is.  we also need more than a higher minimum wage tho
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Sep 5, 2017 18:43
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Peachfart posted:I live in Washington state, and was a advocate for immediate increase of the Seattle minimum wage to 15/hour instead of the gradual increase we got. Also, it should be tied to inflation like our state minimum wage is. good to hear. which one strikes you as a more productive use of the democratic party's time, effort, and money: 1. pushing for its national adoption 2. creating a pinterest knockoff run by a death squad veteran to help centrists win arguments on twitter you know. strategically.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:45
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can you imagine what we could do if we weren't in a forever war with additional military misadventures every year? would be really neat i tell you what too bad dems like war and mass surveillance instead of infrastructure and jobs programs
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Sep 5, 2017 18:45
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Peachfart posted:The far-left is either powerless
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Sep 5, 2017 18:45
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the only trump opponent so far with significant accomplishments is a hurricane so unless you plan to rally behind g*d's wrath you've committed yourself to utter passivity lol
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Sep 5, 2017 18:46
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Calibanibal posted:the only trump opponent so far with significant accomplishments is a hurricane so unless you plan to rally behind g*d's wrath you've committed yourself to utter passivity lol What, you AREN'T a death cultist?
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Sep 5, 2017 18:46
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Nonsense posted:Just want to say that 'A Balanced Budget' is probably one of the stupidest accomplishments ever. Yeah, it shows how much the Democrats in general, and Bill Clinton's team in particular, internalized Reaganism. "Oh no, America is a center-right country that hates Big Government and deficits, so we need to shrink government and balance the budget and pretend like we're Republicans!" Or, as Clinton himself put it... Bill Clinton posted:Where are all the Democrats? I hope you're all aware we're all Eisenhower Republicans [...] We're Eisenhower Republicans here. Here we are, and we're standing for lower deficits and free trade and the bond market. Isn't that great?
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Sep 5, 2017 18:46
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free trade is libertarian nonsense like free markets 
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Sep 5, 2017 18:47
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https://twitter.com/Jezzerat/status/905068788772691968 This person was almost given a cabinet position.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:48
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white sauce posted:Leftists are doing a hell of a lot more to combat the rising tide of fascism than Hillary, Obama, Tim Kaine, or anyone of your centrist heroes Wow, this post assumes quite a lot. I'd say Antifa is definitely doing quite a bit, they are great. But past bashing the fash, what is the left doing? And Antifa's popularity isn't guaranteed on the left. In this very thread I have seen multiple avowed leftists talking about how bashing the fash is bad and we should be working with white supremacists instead.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:48
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free trade is real, says on my bag of coffee beans
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Sep 5, 2017 18:49
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The left as you imagine it to be had a chance to be a bigger and more influential part of the Democratic Party for decades but didn't. It didn't for a number of reasons but it is trying now as a reaction to the rights ascendancy and not centrist democrat bogeymen. That's the weirdest disconnect between online leftists here and people you can get to vote for your candidates and policies in real life. They are voting in reaction to crises present or future and the rising tide of the right and you're crusading against neoliberals. The results of a successful movement would be an analogue of the tea party but it's actually good for the country. It goes without saying that if you think for a second you won't have to compromise your views in the current and future system of government and accept people you are vilifying then you've got bigger problems than internet debate.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:49
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Calibanibal posted:the only trump opponent so far with significant accomplishments is a hurricane so unless you plan to rally behind g*d's wrath you've committed yourself to utter passivity lol Agreed. Passivity it is. Edit: or hurricane 2020, idk
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Sep 5, 2017 18:49
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Peachfart posted:Wow, this post assumes quite a lot. I'd say Antifa is definitely doing quite a bit, they are great. But past bashing the fash, what is the left doing? antifa was actually helping with hurricane relief after harvey, so there's that too. also the DSA is up and coming
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Sep 5, 2017 18:50
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XyrlocShammypants posted:The left as you imagine it to be had a chance to be a bigger and more influential part of the Democratic Party for decades but didn't. wrong on the first sentence. the centrists drove the left out systematically. oh and they backstabbed unions too. now they're insisting democrats are the party of wall street, tax cuts and credits centrists are p nasty 
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Sep 5, 2017 18:52
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Peachfart posted:I'd be more comfortable rallying behind the far-left if they had accomplished, or even attempted to accomplish anything besides complaining about Democrats since the election. The far-left is either powerless or far smaller than they are willing to admit. https://twitter.com/tresdessert/status/839531333525340160
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Sep 5, 2017 18:53
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XyrlocShammypants posted:The left as you imagine it to be had a chance to be a bigger and more influential part of the Democratic Party for decades but didn't. Mmmm, it's more that the Democratic leadership quite deliberately jettisoned economic justice as a core Democratic value: quote:After Humphrey’s loss to Nixon, Democrats formed the Commission on Party Structure and Delegate Selection, also known as the McGovern-Fraser Commission, which sought to heal and restructure the party. With the help of strategist Fred Dutton, Democrats forged a new coalition. By quietly cutting back the influence of unions, Dutton sought to eject the white working class from the Democratic Party, which he saw as “a major redoubt of traditional Americanism and of the antinegro, antiyouth vote.” The future, he argued, lay in a coalition of African Americans, feminists, and affluent, young, college-educated whites. Which is a very Joy Ann Reid-esque take on electoral politics.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:55
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i love fdr and i hope the dems become the party of FDR again, but with minorities being treated well it'd be a vast improvement over being the party of tax credits and avoiding black lives matter
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Sep 5, 2017 18:55
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