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I would not be surprised if Genji is in love with Kinzo considering the whole "love can be hosed up" theme this vn has going on.
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Sep 6, 2017 04:13
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ZiegeDame posted:In addition to the Kanon stuff, according to Maria, Genji was aware of Yasu's witchcraft tea parties where they externally roleplayed Beatrice. If I saw two kids playing witches, it'd be quite a leap to assume one or both of them are actually more or less delusional about it. From that perspective, Maria is only a few years old and Yasu is humoring her and playing along with a friend. Basically what I'm saying is that it's kind of difficult to accuse Genji of feeding into Yasu's "delusions", because obviously he doesn't have access to Yasu's thoughts and had no malicious intent with his plans. Should he have paid more attention? Sure. Admittedly, one of Umineko's themes is that even actions without malicious intent can hurt very badly and that's not an excuse.
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Sep 6, 2017 12:00
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  "...You will go to the Master. Ready yourself."  Video: The Death of KinzoBGM: Bring the Fate  "...O, okay." "Master. It is Genji."After Genji knocked, the sound of the study's door unlocking could be heard. After a single glance telling me to wait, Genji entered alone.  Kumasawa was with us too. I thought this dress, which didn't really suit me, would lead to a lot of jokes, but she didn't laugh at me at all. On the contrary, when she saw me, her expression had turned stern, as though a long-awaited day had finally come. My heart raced. Supposedly, anyone should have been able to solve the epitaph. There shouldn't be anything strange about me solving it... The others kept wearing meek expressions, and that, along with everything else, made this feel like some sort of grand ceremony. The suffocating silence continued. Eventually, the door opened, and Genji peeked out.  He was saying those words to me, but not to the person I had been until a short while ago. "..." "Go ahead, Beatrice-sama..."Kumasawa also urged me forward with a respectful bow. Kinzo was probably waiting for me inside. What expression should I wear as I go in...? How should I greet him...? I don't have a clue... As the two of them motioned me forward, it was all I could do to avoid tripping over my dress as I walked.  "...Kinzo-san. She is here."Kinzo was crouched on the ground, as though kneeling before the portrait of Beatrice. At Nanjo's words, he slowly turned, still crouching...  Kinzo's eyes were already red with crying. When he saw me, he groaned with wonder.  "...Beatrice... Beatrice..."Had he even forgotten how to stand up? He crawled over to where I was. As he called out to me with the name of the woman he had loved long ago. I was too stunned to move. Then, Kinzo grabbed the hem of my dress, gripped it tightly, then curled up and sobbed.   "..."The words weren't directed at me. However, just standing here like this was all I needed to do. Kinzo's moment of atonement, the moment he had spent half of his life searching for, had finally come. ...A human's life is packed with sin. So, humans seek forgiveness while they still live. However, in most cases, there are none in this world capable of giving such forgiveness. It was like that for Kinzo. There was no longer anyone in this world who could forgive him. Instead, that forgiveness had been woven together by a miracle, and now, Kinzo had received it...  "Ooooooohhh, Beatrice... Beatrice... You need not forgive me... You need not say anything...! Just once... I... wanted to apologize to you...! Oooohhhhhh..."Kinzo kept grasping the dress's hem and sobbing. The sins of humans are not forgiven by other people. They find forgiveness through regret and repentance. I want to believe that some sin, some fault of his... has been forgiven thanks to the way I look... Kinzo's sobbing gradually ceased, and he slowly looked up at me and rose. He staggered. Nanjo rushed forward to support him.  "..." "...So, I see that you are alive... I'm glad..."This time, these words weren't directed through me, but at me. I hesitated, unsure how I should respond.  "No matter. I do not fault you, Genji... Considering the sin that I committed, every single day until now has been necessary for my atonement..." "However, there can be no doubt that today's miracle is a true one. By her own power, without anyone's help, she solved the epitaph before anyone else." "Well done... solving such a difficult epitaph..." "Th, thanks..." "...Yes. Your voice resembles your mother's. Even your face reminds me of that mother and daughter... There can be no doubt that Beatrice's blood flows through your veins..." "Yes. The traces of the lady of Kuwadorian in her youth are right there."Does my face look like someone else's...?   "...Wha..." "It's true. You have been raised as a child without parents. However, your true father is the Master. And your true mother... is Beatrice-sama." "...Is that, umm, really..." "Yes. You truly are a descendant of Beatrice-sama."Is such a strange fate... really possible...? I've dreamed about it. Dreamed about what it'd be like to be the Golden Witch, Beatrice. But that dream was for me alone. So, I'd dreamed that if the epitaph was solved and its ceremony carried out, I would revive as the true Beatrice. So, is it really conceivable... that after I solved it... Beatrice did revive after all...?  "I... truly carry... Beatrice's... blood...?" "Yes. There is no doubt of that whatsoever." "...It must have been hard for you to live until this day without knowing a parent's affection... And yet, look at how wonderfully you've grown..." "...So, you all knew...? About me...?"Genji, Kumasawa, and even Nanjo nodded wordlessly. Now that I think about it, there might have been lots of hints. I've always felt as though there was something special about me. Genji and especially Kumasawa always treated me very kindly. Then, does that mean this day is a promised day, which would eventually have come no matter what...? I don't understand anything anymore. It's all God's miracle. The promised fate has led me to this day.  "...?" "That is the name I wanted to give you..." "...It is your true name." "Lion... I will now return to you everything that Beatrice gave me. I return to you the gold, as well as everything of the Ushiromiya family, which was created by it."Kinzo stuck out a hand that looked like a rotting tree. On his finger was a ring with the One-winged Eagle crest, which was the symbol of the Ushiromiya family head. He pulled it off, grasped it tightly, and then held it out to me. I didn't know what to do. Slowly, as though they were being drawn forward, I held out my hands, palms up. After pressing his fists against my cupped hands, Kinzo slowly opened his hands and let the ring drop. "...Lion, my child... That your fate has been toyed with is a result of my sin. Please forgive me... You will now inherit my ring, you are the new Ushiromiya family head." "That trifling amount of gold may be nothing in comparison with the sin I committed, but even so, it should be enough to bring you some comfort." "Th, thank... you..." "...Lion. I have one... final request." "Wh, what is that...?" "Could you... call me...?" "...Uh, sorry, what did you say...?" "Could you... call me... Father?" "..." "...I understand why you are not able to... I have not been a father to you in any way. Furthermore, you have been raised without knowing anything about your father. I realize that it's not a name you can call me by. And, I realize that I have no right to ask this of you. But, taking that into account, please... If I could just hear that, I would have no further regrets..."...After being asked like that, was it possible for me to refuse? Even if I am his child, I truly cannot acknowledge him as my father... So, it felt very strange to say it. And yet, I decided that saying it was the right thing to do. Only God can truly forgive sins. But, though it may be temporary... People can be saved by the forgiveness of others. "...F..." "..." "Heh, heheheh..."That awkward word made Kinzo laugh. Drops of silver fell from both of his eyes. At that moment, the shadow that had covered his face... was wiped away... "Thank you, Lion. My child... And Beatrice, as well. Thank you for this last chance... to ask for forgiveness... Of course, I don't believe that I have been forgiven by just this. The rest, I will do as I burn in the fires of hell. I, Ushiromiya Kinzo, have no more regrets in this life!! None at all! No regrets or things left undone!!" "Wahaha, wahahahahahahahaahahah!! Waaahhahahahahaahahahahahaha!!!"Looking up to the heavens, Kinzo spread his arms as though facing an applauding audience, laughing at the top of his lungs. It was the final pleasure, known only by those who have been released from all regrets of this world. ...Kinzo's laugh weakened, and when it disappeared... He dropped to his knees... like a puppet with its strings cut... and slowly... fell to the ground...  "...M, Master..." "Doctor Nanjo..." "Y, yes..."Though their master had fallen, they walked up to him slowly.  After checking Kinzo's pulse, Nanjo shook his head and stood back up. "...It was a peaceful death. I don't think he had any regrets at all." "It may be... that the Master died long before now. It was only his magic and tenacity that kept him here so long. And, he finally had a chance to apologize to Beatrice-sama for everything, and finished everything he had to do..." "...Please, rest in peace. I believe that you have redeemed yourself." "...Father..." BGM: Song Without a Name (instrumental)  "I hear it's worth 20 billion yen. All of your dreams in this world can now be granted with money." "Hohohoho... It must be tough to think of what to do with this much money when it suddenly comes your way." "...There is nothing I desire among the things money can buy. So, for the present, I would like to leave this here."...Of course, I'm glad I have a lot of money. However, money can't heal the pain in my heart. I just... want him to come back. "As you wish. Then it shall be left here. Also, take this key." "...What is this?" "It is a key to the underground VIP room. If you use this, you won't need to use the more complicated device."She was the only one who knew the answer to the epitaph's riddle, and the only key to this place was now hers. At this point, she truly was the master of this golden VIP room.  "...We should talk about Kuwadorian too." "That's the mansion your mother lived in. I'm sure you've heard rumors about it." "Kuwadorian..." "There are two mansions on this island, one at either end. One is the mansion we know well. The other is a hidden mansion known as Kuwadorian." "Below this island are the remains of a military base built during the war. The Master used that to travel between the two ends of the island..." "There is an underground path in the back of this room, and if you follow it, you will reach the basement of Kuwadorian on the other end of this island. That is a secret mansion, which only the Master knew of. Of course, that mansion also now belongs to the new Head." "...It's the mansion your mother lived in. It's probably worth taking a trip over there sometime." "My... mother..."I've lived alone my whole life. The only person I've ever felt like calling 'Mother' is Kumasawa-san, who always helped me out. The mansion where a mother I've never met nor seen lived...  "Ask any questions you wish. You now deserve to know everything." "...Right now, I'm feeling very confused. I don't even know where I should start asking questions. But I'm sure... I'll think of plenty of things to ask about. When I do, please tell me..." "As you wish." "A, also, being treated so respectfully like that... is a bit uncomfortable. I'd be happier if you could talk to me the same way you've always done." "If that is what you wish, then I will do so." "Hohohoho. That's easier for me too." "...Well now. What will we do now, Genji-san? Kinzo-san is dead." "I will tell Krauss-sama and Madam that he has passed away. Then, we must tell them that Lion-sama is the official successor to the headship. After all, from this point forth, you are the Ushiromiya family head." "M, me as the Head? That's... And isn't Krauss-sama the successor...?" "The one who solves the epitaph's riddle is the successor. There exists a will specifying this much. The Master's final order was that you were to inherit everything." "P, please wait...! I appreciate the sentiment, but I can't do the job of being the successor, and I can't accept such a big responsibility. I think it would be better for Krauss-sama to inherit that role..." "...Are you certain?" "Today, I have learned who I am. Everyone knows about their parents, but I didn't, since the time of my birth. And here, today, I finally learned the truth. That alone is enough for me."If I suddenly became the Ushiromiya family head, how would Krauss-sama react? How angry would Madam be? I don't want to become the head if it means making them feel like that. Today, I learned who I am. Who gave birth to me, how, and when? These are things I want to learn from them as time goes by. That alone is enough.  "Is that your order, as the Ushiromiya family head?" "...Yes." "...As you wish, Master. Then I will make it so." "And please, don't tell anyone about what happened tonight. I want to stay me. There's nothing I'd want to do if I had the Ushiromiya headship or the gold."...I just...  "...As you wish, Master. Everything that has happened tonight will not go beyond those present here. Kumasawa. Doctor Nanjo. That is the wish of the new Head." "...If that's what you want, I have no objections. Kinzo-san's will entrusts everything to you. If this is what you want to do, none of us will complain." "You say 'exactly the same as it was', but do you really mean exactly the same...? With no differences at all...?" "Yes. We'll keep this a secret. This place and the gold will be sealed away. If I need money, I'll ask you about it then. That's enough for me." "As you wish. The device leading to this place and the key both belong to you. And all of us swear to keep the events of this night a secret. Krauss-sama will be the successor, but in my heart, you will be the only true successor. As you have ordered, we will behave the same way we always have, but please order us whenever it suits you. You are my only master." "...Th, thank you very much..."A vast mountain of gold and the ring of the Ushiromiya family head. The dress of the portrait Beatrice. And, I became the true Beatrice, the Golden Witch. Right here in my very own Golden Land. If I think about it, not much has actually changed. After all, I've always been the Golden Witch. I've just had a few more people acknowledge that.  Oh, I am one yet many. I am the Golden Witch, Beatrice. The true ruler of Rokkenjima... and the possessor of endless gold. And yet, I was in no way complete. ...As I waited for the return of the one person I loved... 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 13:20
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rip kinzo
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Sep 6, 2017 13:28
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ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME?! AFTER ALL THE BULLSHIT, CONSPIRACY, MURDER, AND ABUSE, loving KINZO STILL GETS WHAT HE WANTS IN THE END, WITHOUT ALL THIS MURDER MYSTERY BULLSHIT?!
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Sep 6, 2017 14:01
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Tired Moritz posted:rip kinzo 
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Sep 6, 2017 14:15
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Here's my hot take: if Kinzo wanted forgiveness so badly (and for Genji to decide he's sincere enough to let him meet Yasu), maybe he should've went to jail and done his time instead of using his connections and money to cover it up forever but feeling really guilty about it.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:23
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May he be roasted to well done in anime hell. Now let's see how the mass murder sets in.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:23
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Confused Llama posted:Yasu has been wronged by Kinzo, no doubt, but Yasu is not "Beatrice," in the sense of "an amalgamation of all the women wronged by Kinzo to whom he has applied that name," which is what Kinzo seems to be looking for here. Yasu does not have the power, and should not bear the responsibility, to forgive Kinzo for all the damage he has done to Yasu's mother and grandmother... but that's what he's going to be asking for. And Genji is complicit in putting Yasu in that position by putting Yasu in that dress. ProfessorProf posted:
Hmph. I feel like I'm being rebutted. Still think it was wrong to ask this of Yasu. Plus, then he self-satisfiedly goes and dies before the full depths of his iniquity have even been revealed to his child/grandchild. A Coward to the end, as resurgam would say.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:34
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Confused Llama posted:Hmph. I feel like I'm being rebutted. Still think it was wrong to ask this of Yasu. Plus, then he self-satisfiedly goes and dies before the full depths of his iniquity have even been revealed to his child/grandchild. A Coward to the end, as resurgam would say. It was wrong to manipulate Yasu into this situation. You are right.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:42
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If an adulterous, twelve-toed rapist nihilist occultist alcoholic lottery winner and war profiteer who never held down a real job and spent a decade working on a single riddle can end his life with no regrets, at least the bar has been set so low for the rest of us we're all pretty likely to clear it. I forget: are we watching this with the 'theatre-going power'? Is this objectively true? I almost hope this is all an embellishment by Yasu, just so we can find out later that Kinzo met a more appropriate, possibly grisly end...
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Sep 6, 2017 14:43
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Yasu barely acts like she give a poo poo. She's taking this whole "actually the secret heir" really well.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:49
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Tired Moritz posted:Yasu barely acts like she give a poo poo. She's taking this whole "actually the secret heir" really well. She's more confused then anything.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:54
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free Trapt CD posted:I forget: are we watching this with the 'theatre-going power'? Is this objectively true? Earlier, Beatrice was summoning butterfly servants to move books around the library, so I think it's safe to say that it's at least slightly embellished.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:58
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free Trapt CD posted:I forget: are we watching this with the 'theatre-going power'? Is this objectively true? I almost hope this is all an embellishment by Yasu, just so we can find out later that Kinzo met a more appropriate, possibly grisly end... We're watching Yasu's confession. It's up to you to believe or disbelieve it.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:00
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ProfessorProf posted:Earlier, Beatrice was summoning butterfly servants to move books around the library, so I think it's safe to say that it's at least slightly embellished. tiistai posted:We're watching Yasu's confession. It's up to you to believe or disbelieve it.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:16
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Incidentally, some quick advance scheduling info: Friday: Last update of EP7. Monday: No update, but I'll post my big effortpost thoughts on Episode 7 and Yasu's story that I've been compiling for a long time. Wednesday: Tea party begins.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:31
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MonsterEnvy posted:She's more confused then anything. Yeah, I think she's still in too much shock to really register what it means.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:53
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Possibly the worst part about this whole thing might be that Kumasawa doesn't seem to realize that she was Yasu's mom this whole time. Also, Beato calling Kinzo father is giving me strong vibes of Beato with Battler in the previous episode.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:12
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ZiegeDame posted:Also, Beato calling Kinzo father is giving me strong vibes of Beato with Battler in the previous episode. Except for the part where Battler really didn't want her to.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:15
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Confused Llama posted:Except for the part where Battler really didn't want her to. But Battler created that Beato as she was when she was originally created. Which was November 29th, 1984.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:19
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Huh, we're at the end already? I guess this is ending on a less intense note than the previous episodes. I wonder what the next & last one will be about? I guess there's still room in Yasu's backstory to be explored, but i'm starting to miss Battler.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:37
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Zakrelo posted:Here's my hot take: if Kinzo wanted forgiveness so badly (and for Genji to decide he's sincere enough to let him meet Yasu), maybe he should've went to jail and done his time instead of using his connections and money to cover it up forever but feeling really guilty about it. It's not pleasant to consider, but it's not clear to me that Kinzo would go to jail even if he showed up at the police station and gave a full confession. Some light googling with some search terms that will probably get me on some new lists suggests that "consensual" incest is not a crime in Japan, and while we all agree that there was nothing even approaching consent in this case, I have less faith in the police officers in 1960s Japan (I don't even have that much faith in the cops of 2010s America, sadly). Given that the Kuwadorian Beatrice was an unregistered person whose very existence is wrapped up in the death of an entire Japanese naval regiment and the disappearance of literal tons of gold, things get even more complicated. ZiegeDame posted:Possibly the worst part about this whole thing might be that Kumasawa doesn't seem to realize that she was Yasu's mom this whole time. You might want to go back a few updates: ProfessorProf posted:
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Sep 6, 2017 16:38
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"After all, you knew this kid was Beatrice's child, didn't you?"
"It must have been strange... to tell Beatrice's child that the witch Beatrice would play pranks on you unless you put your stuff away neatly."
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rko posted:You might want to go back a few updates: I fail to see how what you quoted has anything to do with what I said. A mom is more than just a womb.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:56
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ZiegeDame posted:I fail to see how what you quoted has anything to do with what I said. A mom is more than just a womb. Maybe I just don't get what you're trying to say. It's clear to me that Kumasawa is fully aware of the role she's played in Yasu's life.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:10
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So this is a deconstruction of the orphan's ordeal trope where a fairytale orphan goes through many trials only to discover that their true parent(s) was alive all along, is powerful and wealthy, and has been watching out for them, right? Because the kind of backstory needed to make that a thing is really hosed up and also wealth doesn't actually heal the damage caused by abuse. As Kinzo is a dead example of.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:58
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..... You know what? No. I don't buy it, not even a little, not even for a hot second. We might be in Will's Soliloquy-O-Matic power or whatever, but this is still set up as Yasu/Lion's performance here... and they have a mask on again. They've had a mask on they're entire life, they've lived their whole lives conforming to someone else's expectations*, and this has made them an expert on hiding their own emotions when they're in command of things, and Will has made them feel safe and doesn't particularly care about exposing the negative emotions Yasu might have had at the time as much as he does the truth. But the truth is part and parcel to what Yasu might have been feeling when this bombshell was dropped. And I do not think we are seeing that represented here... and I think I know why. Think about the life and circumstances Yasu has had up till now: he damaged body and poor health, her belief that she is a servant, her pining for Battler and burgeoning feelings for Jessica and George, her fantasies of power. All of this gets vindicated on this date, when they solve the riddle, learns the truth, and is made heir. At last s/he is vindicated in their beliefs of their own special nature, at last they have wealth and power enough to leave the island and do whatever they want... and they turn it down flat. S/he elects to let Krauss have the headship, and keep living in her increasingly unlivable situation, tacitly so that she can process what the hell just happened, and in their own words to wait for somebody they already knew they had forgotten all about them. Bullshit. Battler is not the reason Yasu is staying here, he's just a convenient excuse. Of course Yasu'd leave if they could; s/he'd take the nearest bus to anywhere if s/he could get off this shithole island. But s/he can't do that, can s/he...not because they are not heir, or doubts Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo's claim that they'd back up their story. It's because she knows this family, she's been serving them for over six years... and when someone they've treated as a servant their whole lives is made the boss of it all on the Coward's death, they're going to want to know why. And that means explaining how exactly Yasu is connected to the Ushiromiyas... and that Yasu cannot do. Because to explain it to the whole family in terms so plain and fair as to be understood by all, means processing and understanding it themselves. And that means admitting in their heart the following: that the people I thought were my real family all these years were lying to me, that I had a mother all this time on this very island, and holy goddamn poo poo, my mother is my sister. Please ask yourself: what kind of person would just drop that on somebody all in one day? And what kind of person just expects that somebody to explain it to others, who had no idea of any of this? What in the hell does Dead Kinzo and his fuckup cohorts expect Yasu to tell Krauss, Eva, Rudolph and Rosa, and their respective wives to make any of that story palatable? "Hey, yeah, I know this is sudden, but youy see, before the master died, he gave me his ring and made me heir over all of you. He did that because I'm the illigiimate child of your half-sister your dad was raising in the hidden castlke on this island, and she'd be heir normally, but Kinzo accidentally raped her one day-whoops!- and then she went out to some cliffs one day and died because Rosa took her out (hey, Rosa!), so I have all the gold. I know some of you were hoping to get some, but hey, I lived after Natsuhi pushed me off of a cliff, so she only murdered one person! Yay! Also, small note, but as a servant, I've kinda been flirting with three of your four children as both man and woman, but that was before I knew about this, so hope we can put that all past us!"  Somehow, I don't see that going over so great with the family as we've known them. Hell, I imagine the only one who would listen to the story all the way through is Krauss, and for him to be copacetic, he'd have to accept that his dad raped his half sister on this island without his knowledge. And Natsuhi has Krauss' ear, and would not only be horrified and disgusted by the whole thing and want to cover it up, but also might want to cover up the fact that she's a murderer, something she's been denied all these years. Eva would probably not accept the story at all, even though she probably has noi trouble imagining her father as a rapist, and you know the minute she heard she'd be scheming of a way to get that gold... and get rid of "lion." Rudolph may or may not listen and accept, but the problem there is Kyrie, a woman we know can be utterly ruthless and would absoilutely gently caress over anyone getting in the way of her man and lil' Ange's future. And Rosa, after she got over the shock of finding out the whole "I led a woman in the forest to her death" thing from her youth wasn't a dream she surpressed, just wants cold hard cash, and would probably follow the surest path to getting it. And that's before they even bring up the origins thing; once they find out Yasu's relation to the cousins, there is no way on gods green earth that any of those mothers would let their kids come near Yasu again. In becoming heir, Yasu woulkd lose literally everything she's ever known that is good: her position as a servant, her positive relations with the kids... the best scenario I can imagine for them would be if they ended up in a sanitarium somewhere far far away, and you know, that probably would be a step up from her current situation, and would avoid murder... but that is not the story we're reading. Long story short: Kinzo, as befits a coward, has left Yasu in an impossible situation- one in which they get all they've ever wanted, but can never, ever indulge in it as they'd like, just as Tantalus cannot eat or drink. And the ones Yasu has trusted overall, loved as parents, have led them to this state because they thought it was best. Don't tell me she's all right with that... do not tell me there are no great feelings of anger, grief and betrayal at this torment. But Yasu has never been allowed to express such things, they may never even have learned to... and so does not express them now. You have to express your emotions, or it destroys you. And therefore, I submit the blue: The Culprit was granted all they ever wanted, and this... is what broke them and drove them to sin. *Talking of which, I have to congratulate the composers for the soundtrack of this novel, because they really drat nailed it for some tracks. Take a listen to this song one more time, which plays as Yasu lives as a maid with the others: BGM: Toy Box "Toy Box", it's called, which I think says it all doesn't it? Yasu never in her life felt like they were living of their own volition, but as a doll, being being pushed by the whims of others... to the point of not even really knoiwing their own gender identity. Hell, even the one thing they thought they were doing of their own volition was revealed to be a Cinderella story concocted by Genji- yet more manipulation of strings. The soundtrack is really good, is what I'm saying.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:50
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rko posted:Maybe I just don't get what you're trying to say. It's clear to me that Kumasawa is fully aware of the role she's played in Yasu's life. Kumasawa posted:"It's true. You have been raised as a child without parents. However, your true father is the Master. And your true mother... is Beatrice-sama." Imagine the only person who has ever given you a parent's affection saying you've never known a parent's affection. Imagine the person you thought of as your mother your whole life saying they never thought of you as their child.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:54
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ZiegeDame posted:Imagine the only person who has ever given you a parent's affection saying you've never known a parent's affection. Imagine the person you thought of as your mother your whole life saying they never thought of you as their child. I think this is more about the cultural concept of parenthood, because blood bonds are ~special~.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:59
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:I think this is more about the cultural concept of parenthood, because blood bonds are ~special~. Lion's mother is Natsushi. Nobody would say Lion grew up without knowing a parent's affection. (And they wouldn't be talking about Kinzo.)
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Sep 6, 2017 19:04
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So, was Yasu actually told that her mother was her sister? All they say is 'you are Kinzo and Beatrice's child' no mention of the fact that the Beatrice they're talking about is also Kinzo's child, or the imprisonment and rape she was put through. And that is hosed up. The second Beatrice doesn't even get the justice of an identity of her own.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:05
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ZiegeDame posted:Lion's mother is Natsushi. Nobody would say Lion grew up without knowing a parent's affection. (And they wouldn't be talking about Kinzo.) I'm sure you can appreciate how Kumasawa's role w/r/t Yasu was different from Natsuhi's with Lion, yeah? Kumasawa played a maternal role, just as Genji played a paternal one, but neither was really ever a "parent," and I don't think Yasu really had that in mind, except insofar as acknowledging that they were the closest people she had to parents. Despite that, it's not like they cut Kumasawa or Genji out of their Bible of Original Characters. Furthermore, resurgam40 posted:Hell, even the one thing they thought they were doing of their own volition was revealed to be a Cinderella story concocted by Genji- yet more manipulation of strings. It's worth reflecting on how Kumasawa, along with Genji and Nanjo, are comfortable trying to fit the Kuwadorian Beatrice and Yasu both into tidy, storybook narratives, whether it's the witch living in a gilded cage or the orphan discovering that she is actually a wealthy heiress. It's fitting that Yasu does the same with them, creating Ronove and Virgilia to help fill our her own narrative.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:20
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This whole story is a disaster zone of people creating narratives to comfort themselves about a reality they don't confront or change. Until murderpocalypse.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:24
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > a disaster zone of people creating narratives to comfort themselves about a reality they don't confront or change - Let's Play Umineko Chiru
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Sep 6, 2017 19:32
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resurgam40 posted:What in the hell does Dead Kinzo and his fuckup cohorts expect Yasu to tell Krauss, Eva, Rudolph and Rosa, and their respective wives to make any of that story palatable? I doubt Rudolph and Rosa would care so long as they were given a cut of the cash. Only Eva and Krauss were really interested in the Headship. Also I doubt Yasu is hurt by any of this right now, just confused. She does not know of any of bigger details yet. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:36
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I suspected even if Battler did decide that continuing to go 'gently caress this noise I'm out' instead of returning (and honestly, who would blame him if he decides to permanently sever his tie with that family) that people will wind up dead, just later and perhaps with less causalities, because everything's set up as a volatile powder keg - whether it's Yasu snapping from the pressure (whether as a servant or as George's wife), or the family finding out about the heir thing and reacting badly. Also Greyalien noticed it too: For all of Kinzo's cries for forgiveness, he sure as hell left out the part that Yasu's mother was his daughter that he raped, denying the worst of his sins, and again denying Beatrice II any identity.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:37
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Robindaybird posted:I suspected even if Battler did decide that continuing to go 'gently caress this noise I'm out' instead of returning (and honestly, who would blame him if he decides to permanently sever his tie with that family) that people will wind up dead, just later and perhaps with less causalities, because everything's set up as a volatile powder keg - whether it's Yasu snapping from the pressure (whether as a servant or as George's wife), or the family finding out about the heir thing and reacting badly. I feel like disclosing that last bit to Yasu would do more harm than good. I think Kinzo should have admitted his crime -- you know, to a court, where he could be prosecuted. But crying about it to Yasu only drops a burden on that kid that they're perhaps ill-equipped to handle. Of course, I'm sure Yasu discovers the truth anyway... and I'm sure it's a catastrophic event.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:39
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Robindaybird posted:
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Sep 6, 2017 19:41
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It is strange Yasu didn't get the whole story about her parentage, although I guess we still have 1 more update to go, because I would assume its a large part of the reason she decides to go a-murdering. She probably came out of the meeting thinking Kinzo's sin was something like not making her a part of the Ushiromiya family. Also, did Genji or someone ever tell them that they're 3 years older than they think? That seems important to know. Zakrelo fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:46
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| # ? May 29, 2024 02:56 |
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ProfessorProf posted:
I went looking to a different line to similar effect, found this one instead. This is Yasu referring to Genji as their father. Not "the closest thing to a father" but "our Father." 
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Sep 6, 2017 20:22
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"It would have been better if we had died right after being born."
"...That is our Father's sin, isn't it..."