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JerryLee posted:Thread has moved on a little but it's so cool to see Opt back. I've been thinking forever that they should print it into Modern; it seems almost as low-powered as a card selection cantrip can be (at least in terms of cards seen; obviously they could slash it down to a sorcery if they really wanted to troll us) and yet it's quite good in its place. Yeah, it's good to see. I could see "Scry 1, Draw a Card, Scry 1" at Sorcery speed, but Opt seems nice.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:59
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The Dino-broodmother seems good. I'm willing to wait and see if 7 power across two creatures, with 3 of that power having haste, for 5 mana might not just be good in standard.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:00
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Sep 6, 2017 18:06
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 quote:Twilight Skywalker
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Sep 6, 2017 18:07
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I am starting to really like this set.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:07
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So many solid common and uncommon reprints in this set, goddamn. No mana leak or counterspell or lightning bolt yet, though. 
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Sep 6, 2017 18:10
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They already did the big creature type update, the cat's out of the bag already in terms of old creatures' official types matching their printed ones.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:11
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The Shortest Path posted:So many solid common and uncommon reprints in this set, goddamn. If you're expecting counterspell to be reprinted into modern, you're gonna remain disappointed I'm afraid Edit: controversial opinion; Huatli and the mana dork will make Naya Dinoramp a serious archetype
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Sep 6, 2017 18:21
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Holy gently caress.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:24
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Hot drat I'm getting excited about standard again
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Sep 6, 2017 18:25
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TBH I don't even think counterspell would get played much in modern. Even mana leak sees play in what, two major decks that aren't even that prevalent?
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Sep 6, 2017 18:27
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Make Merfolk Great Again
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Sep 6, 2017 18:39
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The Shortest Path posted:TBH I don't even think counterspell would get played much in modern. Even mana leak sees play in what, two major decks that aren't even that prevalent? Mana Leak has a big issue in that if your control deck is successfully extending the game it will eventually stop being a real card, compounded by the fact that a UW control shell will probably be feeding their opponent 1-2 lands over the course of the game from Path. The fact that Counterspell works the whole game would make it a substantial upgrade and might be enough to make a difference in how countermagic can be played. That said, I'm still not super-high myself on the power of two-mana reactive plays in the format of one-mana threats. EDIT: there are decks playing Logic Knot in Modern now, which is literally just Sad Man's Counterspell, so there's definitely be some room for it, though the question wasn't really whether it would be played over the other two-mana counters; it's whether Counterspell would change the format significantly with its presence. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 18:41
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evilweasel posted:here's a random question: fungusaur has been printed with two different mechanics: originally and now, it gets +1/+1 immediately after it is dealt damage, in revised-5th edition, it gets +1/+1 at the end of turn if it was dealt damage that turn. what the gently caress happened where they decided to just change how the card actually works in revised, then changed it back years later? I think the reason they did this in Revised was because of damage using the stack - if a 2/2 Grizzly Bears and 2/2 Fungusaur deal damage to each other, what happens? Alpha: Each time Fungusaur is damaged but not destroyed, put a +1/+1 counter on it. [Damage on the stack] The bears and Fungusaur deal damage to each other - 'destroyed' is ambiguous. I think the intent is that lethal damage "destroys" the fungusaur, but current understanding of game rules (but with damage on the stack), would probably say the Fungusaur survives, with 2 damage marked on 3 toughness. The +1/+1 counter would have been added before damage resolution. Revised: At the end of any turn during which Fungusaur was damaged but not destroyed, put a +1/+1 counter on it. [Damage on the stack] They fixed it! The grizzly bears and Fungusaur deal what would be lethal damage to each other. The trigger doesn't happen until the end of the turn, so Fungusaur dies. Eighth Ed: Whenever Fungusaur is dealt damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it. (The damage is dealt before the counter is put on.) [Current damage rules] Since we check for lethal damage as a state-based action now, the Fungusaur takes 2 damage, the +1/+1 goes on the stack, then we check for lethal damage. The Fungusaur is dead. Bottom line - the Revised change was probably to make Fungusaur more clearly follow the intent within the rules, and not survive 2 damage. But with the rules changes in 2002, they could reprint it in 2003 with templating and functionality closer to the original.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:41
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Devor posted:Bottom line - the Revised change was probably to make Fungusaur more clearly follow the intent within the rules, and not survive 2 damage. But with the rules changes in 2002, they could reprint it in 2003 with templating and functionality closer to the original. makes sense - but it is a massive change to make it so that it maxes out at 1 counter. you could, for example, activate pestilence repeatedly to make it as big as you could afford under the old template and the new one, while the revised-era one was garbage in comparison. it's just so odd they'd have made a really fundamental change to how it worked to evade an edge case like that. i would have fixed that by clarifying that "damaged" meant that the damage had actually been applied not put on the stack
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Sep 6, 2017 18:45
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Devor posted:I think the reason they did this in Revised was because of damage using the stack - if a 2/2 Grizzly Bears and 2/2 Fungusaur deal damage to each other, what happens? Revised changes have no logic to them and it definitely wasn't an issue of following intent within the rules. Nether Shadow in ABU clearly stated you can return it to play from your graveyard by paying the card's mana cost and Revised printing clearly says you don't have to pay its mana cost. Until you get past 6th edition cards would just change because they did, not because of any great reasoning for consistency's sake.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:57
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sit on my Facebook posted:Opt is better than serum visions: discuss Nothing to discuss, this is fact. JerryLee posted:Thread has moved on a little but it's so cool to see Opt back. I've been thinking forever that they should print it into Modern; it seems almost as low-powered as a card selection cantrip can be (at least in terms of cards seen; obviously they could slash it down to a sorcery if they really wanted to troll us) and yet it's quite good in its place. Opt is the perfect 1 mana cantrip imo. It's not horrible like Serum Visions and it's not ridiculously powerful like Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain. The Shortest Path posted:TBH I don't even think counterspell would get played much in modern. Even mana leak sees play in what, two major decks that aren't even that prevalent? Mana Leak is terrible in those decks but it's the best thing they have. Logic Knot would be better if you could consistently cast it for 2 on turn 2, but you can't.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:38
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Ultima66 posted:Revised changes have no logic to them and it definitely wasn't an issue of following intent within the rules. Nether Shadow in ABU clearly stated you can return it to play from your graveyard by paying the card's mana cost and Revised printing clearly says you don't have to pay its mana cost. Until you get past 6th edition cards would just change because they did, not because of any great reasoning for consistency's sake. I mean, Revised came out so soon after the base game I doubt they considered the longterm logic of them. I mean, the batch method of spell resolution made no real sense, you just had to agree with your opponent on how it worked. I can tell you at the time nobody did.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:38
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odiv posted:Hearthstone apparently just changed some of the original cards from the base set for power level reasons, which is an interesting comparison. It feels wrong to me on a gut level, which is kind of ridiculous seeing as it's a completely separate thing and being digital affords them this possibility. There's no real reason I should want digital card games to have the same limitations as Magic, but it just kinda feels wrong? I'm a newbie here but I've been playing Hearthstone for over three years so here's my input on today's changes: Blizzard is trying to slap a bandaid on an idea (an evergreen set which never rotates out of Standard) everyone told them would be bad from day one. Their reasoning for today's update literally was "Standard decks still use too many Classic/Basic cards" and well, what did you expect when the Classic/Basic set is an order of magnitude stronger than almost everything printed after it? Creating a "core" set from the Basic/Classic cards would have been a more elegant solution and allows you to rotate cards in and out. Permanence in a Standard format doesn't make sense. Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:45
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Maro told the Fungusaur story before. Eighth Edition was going to have one card from each set that had never before been reprinted. But, of course, every plausibly reprintable card in Alpha had already been reprinted. So the solution was to reprint original Fungusaur, which got errataed in its very first printing outside of ABU. It's kind of a weird justification for errata but that's what it is.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:46
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cheetah7071 posted:Maro told the Fungusaur story before. Eighth Edition was going to have one card from each set that had never before been reprinted. But, of course, every plausibly reprintable card in Alpha had already been reprinted. So the solution was to reprint original Fungusaur, which got errataed in its very first printing outside of ABU. It's kind of a weird justification for errata but that's what it is. Camouflage is a perfectly reasonable card.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:00
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Spell Pierce is an aggressive card, not a mid range or control card.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:14
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suicidesteve posted:Nothing to discuss, this is fact. Why don't decks play Rune Snag?
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Sep 6, 2017 20:21
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You know, I'm all for functional errata where new creature types are added, but I think it's a bad choice to remove the types that are printed on the cards when those types are still among those listed in the comprehensive rules. All those creatures that turned into Dinosaurs should have just stayed Lizards as well. Wouldn't have created a problem. For gently caress's sake, "Lizard" is literally one half of the word "Dinosaur."
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Sep 6, 2017 20:35
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Entropic posted:It's probably actually worth spelling out since it doesn't come up much any more and it's not that intuitive if you're not familiar with A) how the stack works and B) the fact that whenever a game object changes zones it's treated as a completely new object with no memory of or relation to any previous triggers or effects it generated. This is infinitely confusing and unintuitive, but I think I'll understand after I read it over a few times. Thanks! e: so why doesn't creature three return? a pale ghost fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 20:37
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So, we've got Opt, Lightning Strike, and Spell Pierce. Who wants to build UR Counterburn?!
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Sep 6, 2017 20:45
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The stated goal of creature type changes is to make it so, for every card, if you looked at the most recent printing, you could reasonably guess what its creature types are from the printed typeline, art, and name. By that standard, deathmist raptor should be a beast dinosaur, or just a beast. e: there should also be a lot of lizard dinosaurs
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Sep 6, 2017 20:46
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Omar al-Bishie posted:e: so why doesn't creature three return? because it's "get your creature back" trigger has already happened in step 2. bascially since the stack resolves on a "last in, first out" basis, you end up resolving the two triggers out of order
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Sep 6, 2017 20:49
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I really like basically everything about Ixalan so far
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Sep 6, 2017 20:49
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No, dinosaur is a race just like human or elf. What I'm saying is there should be dinosaur wizards and allies.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:51
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Salvor_Hardin posted:No, dinosaur is a race just like human or elf. What I'm saying is there should be dinosaur wizards and allies. There should be dinosaur zombie crab wizards
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Sep 6, 2017 20:55
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Cactrot posted:There should be dinosaur zombie crab wizards Every animal should get to be a wizard like my favorite owl wizards. 
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Sep 6, 2017 21:02
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Count Bleck posted:So, we've got Opt, Lightning Strike, and Spell Pierce. *cocks head to the side like a dog just asked if they want to go for a walk*
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Sep 6, 2017 21:11
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Cactrot posted:There should be dinosaur zombie crab wizards 
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Sep 6, 2017 21:14
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https://twitter.com/rosewattastone/status/905424468289474560 This is better than the dril magic account.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:27
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How do y'all keep track of your collections? Googling for a collection tracker gives me about a dozen different results.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:30
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Katana Gomai posted:How do y'all keep track of your collections? Googling for a collection tracker gives me about a dozen different results. Collection tracker on tcgplayer if you purchase from them often. Simply because it tracks prices and auto adds cards you purchase on tcgplayer.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:32
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Katana Gomai posted:How do y'all keep track of your collections? Googling for a collection tracker gives me about a dozen different results. TCGPlayer and Deckbox are the go-to collection tracking sites, at least around here.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:34
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Katana Gomai posted:How do y'all keep track of your collections? Googling for a collection tracker gives me about a dozen different results. The same superhuman autistic powers that let me memorize details of all Pokemon. Count Bleck posted:So, we've got Opt, Lightning Strike, and Spell Pierce. Communicate with the UR Drake guys. You may be on something.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:34
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Sickening posted:Has it though? I assume you mean pauper? I don't think anyone is playing opt in a format where you can play Brainstorm, Preordain and Ponder as 4-ofs.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:56
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