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Hakkesshu posted:I get the feeling that Cooper was essentially ready to sacrifice himself which is why he created the other Dougie. A noble gesture, but man that was a miscalculation. I think also he maybe didn't want to go and live with some other dude's wife and kid.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:14
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paint dry posted:I think also he maybe didn't want to go and live with some other dude's wife and kid. no, he 100% wanted to stay, they made his heart so full, after all. he definitely got a new dougie made because he knew he might not come back or get stuck in the lodge again and he didn't want his new family to be left without the father but he has a job to do after all, its telling its the first thing he does when he wakes up, now we know hes been aware the whole time. i have to wonder tho... is mr.c a tulpa? there seems to be a big thing about reality glitching because coop and mr.c were both out of the lodge so i'm wondering if mr.c is considering a proper doppelganger and the manufactured beings are just the tulpas. as if you the world's very fabric is at stake Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:20
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paint dry posted:I think also he maybe didn't want to go and live with some other dude's wife and kid. are you saying cooper didnt want to be cucked?
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Sep 6, 2017 19:28
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What if it's actually just bad writing and that's why so much of it doesn't make sense?
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Sep 6, 2017 19:36
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Tiny Lowtax posted:What if it's actually just bad writing and that's why so much of it doesn't make sense? Something being open ended doesn't mean it's bad writing.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:38
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SeANMcBAY posted:Something being open ended doesn't mean it's bad writing. *8 minute scene of guy sweeping a bar floor* OH MY GOD ITS REVOLUTIONARY
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Sep 6, 2017 19:40
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The Walrus posted:here's a question: if you could ask david lynch one question about this season and have it answered, excluding the very ending, what would it be? 
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Sep 6, 2017 19:42
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Tiny Lowtax posted:*8 minute scene of guy sweeping a bar floor* Nobody's ever said that any one scene is revolutionary, rather it's the 18-hour whole they create that is revolutionary also the scene is 2 minutes and 40 seconds 
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Sep 6, 2017 19:43
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The sweeping scene was cool anyways with how it contrasted the banality of upkeep of the bar with the horrifying poo poo about selling women on the phone call right after.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:52
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Hakkesshu posted:I get the feeling that Cooper was essentially ready to sacrifice himself which is why he created the other Dougie. A noble gesture, but man that was a miscalculation. why?
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Sep 6, 2017 20:01
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so mr.c's plan was to find and gently caress judy again and have judys host give birth again so bob could possess judys child again since he mike stopped him the last time (laura). bob just wants to possess his and judys child and become some kind of ultimate being thing. mr.c doesn't know sarah was judy like leland did because bobs and his host memory are separate and bob does not communicate directly, hence the whole "ah, so you're still with me.. good." right...?
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Sep 6, 2017 20:01
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The sweeping scene is great just because of how much it flusters people. I personally thought it was really funny.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:02
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Tiny Lowtax posted:What if it's actually just bad writing and that's why so much of it doesn't make sense? this isnt the game of thrones thread.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:02
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Low Desert Punk posted:The sweeping scene is great just because of how much it flusters people. I personally thought it was really funny. It also provided a great break to roll a joint without worrying about missing something.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:07
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esperterra posted:It also provided a great break to roll a joint without worrying about missing something. I watched a good amount of The Return while Jerry Horne level stoned, and I don't know if it was a good idea or not. The Roadhouse peformances were really fun though
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Sep 6, 2017 20:12
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I loved the sweeping scene. It happened early on so I wasn't like "OH GOD WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS WHY ARENT THEY ADDRESSING X PLOTLINE". If they had done some long extended shot of nothing in the last episode though I might have been a little more agitated by it. ..... what year is it??
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Sep 6, 2017 20:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db9to1uazmU
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Sep 6, 2017 20:15
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Low Desert Punk posted:I watched a good amount of The Return while Jerry Horne level stoned, and I don't know if it was a good idea or not. The Roadhouse peformances were really fun though It's the only way to watch prestige TV imo
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Sep 6, 2017 20:16
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Raxivace posted:The sweeping scene was cool anyways with how it contrasted the banality of upkeep of the bar with the horrifying poo poo about selling women on the phone call right after. It was also great because green onions is a good song and it gives you some time to think through the important question, "is that seriously ANOTHER Renault brother??" (Yes.)
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Sep 6, 2017 20:29
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Low Desert Punk posted:I watched a good amount of The Return while Jerry Horne level stoned, and I don't know if it was a good idea or not. Did your foot tell you it was not your foot?
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Sep 6, 2017 20:31
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esperterra posted:It's the only way to watch prestige TV imo Its the only way to watch any TV
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Sep 6, 2017 20:38
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paint dry posted:I don't think any of The Return was intentionally written as a "cocktease" to annoy viewers. This is just the story that Frost and Lynch wanted to tell. It can be both things. I mean, it's a show where they made an effort of giving roles, even pretty small ones, to many original cast members, but the main character is turned into a dumbass for the overwhelming majority of the runtime: they know they're being unconventional.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:40
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Elias_Maluco posted:Its the only way to watch any TV Also true.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:42
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watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_VcgxDGRM seems to imply cooper and dianes sex in the motel was all part of firemans plan. two birds, one stone. is diane meant to get pregnant and the kid be...? sara..h. i gotta start smoking poo poo.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:48
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One thing that's been bothering me is that conversation Gordon says he had with Cooper and Briggs, when they planned to take out Judy When is that supposed to have happened? If I understood it correctly, he says it happened right before Briggs death, but that would mean it was Bad Cooper instead, Cooper was already in the Black Lodge. But then I cant make sense of it
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Sep 6, 2017 20:53
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Elias_Maluco posted:One thing that's been bothering me is that conversation Gordon says he had with Cooper and Briggs, when they planned to take out Judy Briggs fake death probably. I don't think Gordon knew he was actually still alive until the events of s3 and it doesn't seem that weird that he's forget a detail like that whole recounting the far past
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Sep 6, 2017 20:58
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Seems like it happened towards the end of the original show. Coop says the thing about "If I disappear like the others, do your best to find me"
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Sep 6, 2017 20:58
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well for example, here are some of the lyrics to Eddie Vedder's song: When viewing, I laughed out loud at the lyric "drunk octopus wants to fight" which can only be a reference to that silly coathanger meme
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Sep 6, 2017 21:10
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mr.c big plan was to find the electric pole that looked like the symbol, because its still bobs ultimate goal to possess laura SHE IS THE ONE and he knew she was still alive in that other reality but didn't have the coordinates for the entrance. (she has judy esseesse remember, when she takes her face off, also, you know, sarahs daughter...) if we take paradox in account because laura always screams at coopers shadow back in fire walk with me, he is always there, then there's always been two twin timelines interweaving, one where mike fixes coopers first attempt at saving laura (because cooper told her to not take the ring in the dream and the ring stops the possession/transports person to the lodge after death) and other timeline being laura going missing Through the darkness of future past The magican longs to see One chants out between two worlds Fire walk with me the one chant out between two worlds is sarah shouting LAURA the morning after her death which causes laura to remember everything, turning the missing timeline into darkness and flicking back to the laura is dead timeline for the 8 infinity loop jefferies mentions to keep happening again over and over. as we get to the end of the laura is dead timeline, time starts to splinter and glitch the closer we get to cooper starting the infinity loop when he goes to see jefferies at 2.53. audrey is still in the coma. Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 21:12
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Vikar Jerome posted:mr.c big plan was to find the electric pole that looked like the symbol, because its still bobs ultimate goal to possess laura SHE IS THE ONE and he knew she was still alive in that other reality but didn't have the coordinates for the entrance. (she has judy esseesse remember, when she takes her face off, also, you know, sarahs daughter...) Make sense. And Cooper's face over that whole scene after BOB is defeated is future (or out of time) Cooper watching himself as he initiate the loop cis autodrag posted:Briggs fake death probably. I don't think Gordon knew he was actually still alive until the events of s3 and it doesn't seem that weird that he's forget a detail like that whole recounting the far past yeah, that's probably it
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Sep 6, 2017 21:21
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Elias_Maluco posted:One thing that's been bothering me is that conversation Gordon says he had with Cooper and Briggs, when they planned to take out Judy We don't know the manner in which this conversation occurred. Maybe it was a dream in which the Major and Coop relayed this information. it's quite clear that coop with the aid of mike have been planning this operation for some time. However cole did say that coop told him "if I ever disappear like the others, do everything you can to find me" which implies that coop told cole this prior to disappearing into the lodge at end of S2. Maybe coop via his discussions with briggs learned about the destructive force which Jeffries and Cole referred to as "Judy" but Cooper didn't know the name. Hence why bad coop is searching for the entity that is Judy but didn't know the name. Or it was all just a mistake and it doesn't deserve further discussion. G-III fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 21:24
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Vikar Jerome posted:i dont know why i'm surprised at these ending reactions. people continuously crying out for meat and substance and when they get it's just loving complaining. i think my favourite reaction to the series has been poo poo like "what's with these info dumps and expositions!?" and then two posts later it's like "why doesn't lynch explain anything!?" That's a mischaracterization. The issue is that a lot of the show is very cryptic. It does not really convey meaning well. It seems like because of this, after a few episodes, there are these very direct scenes where a character just tells another character exactly what's been going on. It comes across as if the show is always at danger of getting bogged down in its own nonsense and needs these inartful exposition scenes to get back on track. Which makes it seem like the show just has a narrative problem that's being resolved in the most obvious way possible. If we didn't know anything about the production history of this show, we would think the exposition scenes were forcibly inserted by the studio after they saw the series and didn't understand anything. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 21:28
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goddamn hes forever going to be in this loop because its the only loving way to totally protect laura from getting possessed by bob and ending existence, presumably. bob never goes back into the lodge after he leaves with mr.c so he too is stuck in this loop, if he were to go back into the lodge, with that existing outside of time and space, he'd able to stop the loop.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:28
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eSporks posted:This is one thing that kinda irks me the wrong way. The only Diane we ever got to know was an unreliable narrator, we can't really trust or believe much of anything she said. Then Naido being Diane just felt really cheap and contrived, there doesn't seem to be any reason for it or meaning. It wasn't really set up either, just "this random character you know nothing about is now this other random character you know nothing about". Her passionate embrace with Coop after this reveal lacked all emotion for me too. Up this point the only thing we know is that they kissed once (maybe), we never saw a romance develop between them. The worst part is that all of a sudden Diane, this character we still know nothing about is all of a sudden important enough to go a on a quest to an alternate dimension to confront horrific evil. This is one of the things that rubs me the wrong way about the show too. I don't really see any good reason why the character of Diane (and her role in the story and in the finale) couldn't have just been replaced by Audrey. The emotional beats would have all been there, and it would have worked better because 1) there would be more meaning to her and Cooper's relationship 2) there would have been more meaning to the audience finding out the first character was a fake. If I had to guess, the actual reason why Diane is there is simply because Lynch has a close collaboration with Laura Dern, wanted her in for a big role, and made her prominent in the finale because, should the story continue, she'd then be an important part of it.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:33
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is pretty interesting analysis, but I feel like this point is too damaging. Bob kills and rapes a ton of people after Laura. It's hard to say she defeated him in any meaningful way. Bob put all his energy into making Laura into his new vessel. Then she dies and Bob has no other suitable (willing) vessel lined up. Leland is damaged and then destroyed, leaving no presence of Bob in the real world, until Cooper bumbles into the lodge, and Bob catches a ride out in the doppelganger.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:41
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I could understand thinking Annie made more sense than Diane, but Cooper just flatout never had any kind of interest in Audrey in the original series. Had they actually ended up together that would reeked of unwarranted fanservice. I would legit buy Cooper going gay with Harry Truman (Both the President and the sheriff) before I bought him getting with Audrey. Diane, at the very least, was the one Cooper was excitedly talking to through his tape recorder in scene after scene. It's lot easier for me to buy him having something for a close co-worker like that than some high school girl he talked to like seven times (Or even Annie considering how little he actually knew her too but that's a flaw with season 2 IMO).
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Sep 6, 2017 21:49
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Annie being a s2 flaw was due to that overall storyline/relationship originally involving Audrey, til LFB got pissy. e: having audrey and coop get together now would be weird af, but to say he had no interest in her in the original series is silly.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:50
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Elias_Maluco posted:One thing that's been bothering me is that conversation Gordon says he had with Cooper and Briggs, when they planned to take out Judy It doesn't make sense either way, Bad Coop had all the memories of Good Coop up until the split, that would mean if Cooper had been in on a plan to destroy Judy he would already have an understanding of what 'Judy' is when he confronts Jeffries. Considering how egregious that seeming retcon is and how it fails to match up with the events shown as well I have to wonder if Gordon was deliberately lying to Albert for reasons unknown.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:51
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Raxivace posted:I could understand thinking Annie made more sense than Diane, but Cooper just flatout never had any kind of interest in Audrey in the original series. Had they actually ended up together that would reeked of unwarranted fanservice. I would legit buy Cooper going gay with Harry Truman (Both the President and the sheriff) before I bought him getting with Audrey. I agree, it would not make any sense to be Audrey. But the way Cooper immediately kisses Diane right after they meet, like they were lovers meeting togheter finally, was a bit weird to me too. During the original series, he didint seems to have any romantic interest on Diane, and then he starts a relantionship with Annie, which Cooper would never if he had something going on with Diane. Diane says they had something in the past, but it seemed to be a one time thing, not like they had something going on To be fair, even Diane seemed to find it a bit unexpected too, so maybe there's something here multijoe posted:It doesn't make sense either way, Bad Coop had all the memories of Good Coop up until the split, that would mean if Cooper had been in on a plan to destroy Judy he would already have an understanding of what 'Judy' is when he confronts Jeffries. Considering how egregious that seeming retcon is and how it fails to match up with the events shown as well I have to wonder if Gordon was deliberately lying to Albert for reasons unknown. To be honest, it seemed a blantant retcon to me too at first, but then it doenst seems like something Lynch would do, so I was trying to make sense of it. I agree to your points: its really weird if it happened before Cooper went into the lodge and Bad Cooper knows nothing about it, but then it makes even lesse sense if it happened after. Maybe it happened in a dream, like someone said above, but then it kinda weird that Gordon talks of it like it was a real world conversation Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 21:55
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Also on the subject of Judy, I don't think it and 'Mother' are the same being and Sarah Palmer is possessed by the latter and not the former. BOB and Bad Coop have no idea what Judy is whereas BOB is spawned by Mother and later possessed a young Sarah Palmer with the assistance of the Woodsmen, indicating they're all members of the Black Lodge and on some level aware of each other. Additionally, when Laura is whisked away from Cooper Sarah is still driven wild with rage at Cooper saving her and doesn't seem to be aware or complicit of her being sent to Odessa, where she ends up working at ... Judy's. I think Mother is essentially just the source of the terrible but faintly comprehensible aliens of the Black Lodge whereas Judy is a far more abstract and hard to define concept of suffering, Mother appears as an human-esque avatar and slices up teenagers heads, Judy makes Laura work in a miserable diner and get sexually harassed.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:02
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