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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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joepinetree posted:I think that the point was that older black voters are over represented. Primary voters are substantially older than general election voters. A full 61% of DEM primary voters were 45 or older. So I guess my question then is, is this a problem with the primary rules or more just young voters being too lazy?
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Sep 6, 2017 18:28
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Barbe Rouge posted:And if anyone but the masters of fail was on the other side of the aisle this would be a joyful occasion. Nah, hopefully being able to unfuck the DACA situation is a genuinely good thing.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:31
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And even if it's not entirely in the spirit of the thread, it still deserves a repost if only because it's funny as poo poo.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:39
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TrixR4kids posted:So I guess my question then is, is this a problem with the primary rules or more just young voters being too lazy? Probably multiple reasons (disenfranchisement, lack of knowledge, not identifying with democrats, etc) , but I think that the point that the person was trying to make is that Democratic primary voters are not representative of minority populations.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:40
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Barbe Rouge posted:And if anyone but the masters of fail was on the other side of the aisle this would be a joyful occasion. https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/905480969351811072 Looks like the Republicans are shook as gently caress. Hell, they're practically covoking over the news. Sounds to me that everyone who says the democrats are a waste wasn't paying attention. I hate to drag up that meme, but it sounds like the just pulled off 4d chess on the entire Republican party and the Republicans seem to be left flailing around crying and angry. Edit: Like fine wine https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/293817480131002368 Zoro fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 18:41
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Nancy Pelosi owns
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Sep 6, 2017 18:49
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The democrats big win might actually be a bigger one than original expected. While we all knew it would move tax reforms until next year, some are speculating this may have completely killed tax reforms as attempting to cut corporate and rich taxes while raising middle class taxes (the current Republican plan) will not do well during a midterm election. According to some polls, most Republicans don't even like the idea of upper class and corporate tax cuts to begin with, due to the reganites dying out. So, they might back off of it until 2019, which might mean it will never happen. Democrats might have just killed the entire Republican agenda in one move.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:00
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It's great that they did this and all, but as a reminder, that is something that Republicans have done for 7 years, and that even the normally ultra establishment Pod Save America guys were completely puzzled why the democrats hadn't tried to do back in April when ACA repeal seemed imminent.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:02
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Condiv posted:hmm, kinda. i doubt they'd out and say identity politics are why trump won though. So I'm actually reading through this and it's really fascinating in depth, these pictures don't really convey what the article is about. The article is about some focus group testing they did coupled with some opinion polls and data points, alongside direct voter quotes from Obama to Trump voters and "rising American electorate voters," or black people, Latinos, and the under 25. The article essentially is portraying the logical end game of obsession over the "middle class," as America recedes from its post-war boom and we return to the equilibrium that has always been common, the 99/1 divide. The amount of open racism and acceptance of classical reactionary talking points even among young people is alarming and the picture this article portrays is very, very grim. They care a lot more about welfare queens than rich people. But the data sample is rather limited so who knows how relevant it actually is, and I haven't gotten to their recommendations yet. In their defense, they specifically say that the voter quotes are often abhorrent and they don't endorse them, they're just reporting verbatim what they were told. Edit: the overwhelming conclusion to draw from this article is that the electorate is both nightmarishly ignorant of how the economy works and exceedingly racist. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:11
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XyrlocShammypants posted:Nancy Pelosi owns She's good on the procedural poo poo and pulling cool House maneuvers, but she's terrible as a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party. Zoro posted:The democrats just made a big win against the Republicans today. In just three hours, they got Trump to agree to limiting the debt ceiling increase to only three months. Why is this a big win for the democrats? Why are republicans furious? This means that now, from today to April 15th (as the treasury can take emergency action until then) Congress can now negotiate on the debt ceiling and not the Republicans legislative agenda. The democrats have hinted they plan to use this as a noose to force Republicans to sign on for everything to avoid a government shutdown in April: DACA as law, obamacare financial protections, etc. And you just know that a big chunk of Trump doing this was him lashing out at the Republican leadership for failing him on the Obamacare repeal. Magnificent. Majorian fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:18
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I'm not super sure that jerking each other off because the GOP is sabotaging itself is the smartest possible reaction here.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:29
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Maybe, but it's the first bit of legit, relevant good news I can think of since TPP tanked. I'm not going to hold it against anyone for making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:32
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm not super sure that jerking each other off because the GOP is sabotaging itself is the smartest possible reaction here. Letting people celebrate is good for morale. Enjoy the wins, no matter how small they might seem. I enjoyed the gently caress out of Obamacare being saved, even if I want a more comprehensive system.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:35
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm not super sure that jerking each other off because the GOP is sabotaging itself is the smartest possible reaction here. I'm sure the 800,000 dreamers feel a bit better so maybe we can allow ourselves to be slightly less miserable for at least today
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Sep 6, 2017 19:36
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Zoro posted:Sounds to me that everyone who says the democrats are a waste wasn't paying attention. I hate to drag up that meme, but it sounds like the just pulled off 4d chess on the entire Republican party and the Republicans seem to be left flailing around crying and angry. They literally did one good thing and you're behaving as if they're political masterminds and not the people who lost to Trump.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:36
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Sure, it's a good thing in itself. Still, call me cynical, but you just know that all this will also be used as final and definitive proof that everything's fine and nothing should be changed ever by the usual suspects.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:38
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I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that there are problems with the Democrats. But being sulky that a good thing happened simply because the Democrats did it isn't a good look for certain members of this thread.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:52
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trump is an idiot. praise be.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:05
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My understanding is that the Democrats agreed to extend the debt ceiling some three months into the future and to fund hurricane relief. I'm not understanding where the huge victory is here. Are the Democrats planning to use the debt ceiling as pressure to push through their legislative agenda? Because that sounds like a terrible idea given that it's their constituents who will be hurt the most by a government shut down. It's like holding a gun to your own head.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:07
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Chomskyan posted:My understanding is that the Democrats agreed to extend the debt ceiling some three months into the future and to fund hurricane relief. I'm not understanding where the huge victory is here. Are the Democrats planning to use the debt ceiling as pressure to push through their legislative agenda? Because that sounds like a terrible idea given that it's their constituents who will be hurt the most by a government shut down. It's like holding a gun to your own head. It means the Republicans can't push forward on tax cuts or healthcare because they have to negotiate the debt ceiling, and Dems can tie DACA to it later instead of hurricane relief now. It has a fair chance of backfiring but it gives them a much better position than they had previously, I.e. Any leverage at all.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:10
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Chomskyan posted:My understanding is that the Democrats agreed to extend the debt ceiling some three months into the future and to fund hurricane relief. I'm not understanding where the huge victory is here. Are the Democrats planning to use the debt ceiling as pressure to push through their legislative agenda? Because that sounds like a terrible idea given that it's their constituents who will be hurt the most by a government shut down. It's like holding a gun to your own head. It is also likely that the Democrats will be able to use this to make DACA law and some other important concessions. The Republicans are unlikely to call the Dems' bluff on a government shutdown because they control both Houses of Congress and the White House. It's almost certain that they would come out of it taking the lion's share of the blame, especially since McConnell is supposed to be such a legislative loving genius. fake edit: Plus what LK said.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:12
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Yeah if this works as it's being reported that's pretty great.Majorian posted:She's good on the procedural poo poo and pulling cool House maneuvers, but she's terrible as a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party. I think this is totally accurate.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:18
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Radish posted:Yeah if this works as it's being reported that's pretty great. And that's the catch. It's the political equivalent of trading back for picks; sure it sounds good on paper but at some point the potential has to become reality and that's where the Dems are real good at loving themselves and everyone over. So it's not a win, in the same way that saving ACA from being overturned wasn't a win as much as it was a GOP own-goal that led to a tie. It's not losing if you want to glass half-full it, but you can't call it a W in good conscience.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:26
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Peachfart posted:I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that there are problems with the Democrats. But being sulky that a good thing happened simply because the Democrats did it isn't a good look for certain members of this thread.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:28
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Three months isn't actually that long. There will be an entire year left for the GOP to pass terrible legislation. DACA is probably the DNC's best chance to gain something from debt ceiling brinkmanship, but its a dangerous game-- not because blame for the shutdown will fall on the DNC, but because it provides the GOP with an entirely plausible excuse to finally gut cloture. That being said it will be excellent if it works.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:30
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Kilroy posted:As far as I can tell there are more people in the bad dem thread accusing folks of this and picking fights, than there are actually people doing this. As usual. I was replying to the two guys who did exactly that('certain members'). I wasn't painting everyone with a wide brush. The Dems have a decent chance of loving this up, but in the meantime I'm pleasantly surprised.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:44
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The Kingfish posted:Three months isn't actually that long. There will be an entire year left for the GOP to pass terrible legislation. DACA is probably the DNC's best chance to gain something from debt ceiling brinkmanship, but its a dangerous game-- not because blame for the shutdown will fall on the DNC, but because it provides the GOP with an entirely plausible excuse to finally gut cloture. The debt ceiling issue has nothing to do with cloture. The reason they need democrats is not because of filibuster, but because the freedom caucus will vote against it. The April resolution had 16 Republicans vote against it and 14 not vote at all. Now, the real risk here was the Republicans calling the Democrats bluff, which would require Pelosi to ensure almost all democrats voted against a CR. But in the senate they've always been in the clear. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 20:53
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Peachfart posted:I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that there are problems with the Democrats. But being sulky that a good thing happened simply because the Democrats did it isn't a good look for certain members of this thread. Peachfart posted:I was replying to the two guys who did exactly that('certain members'). I wasn't painting everyone with a wide brush. The Dems have a decent chance of loving this up, but in the meantime I'm pleasantly surprised. Maybe stop being vague and say directly who you were replying to.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:58
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Condiv posted:here's the article if you missed my link  "... number of people allowed to use it."
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Sep 6, 2017 21:31
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, Democrats: Become the 
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joepinetree posted:The debt ceiling issue has nothing to do with cloture. The reason they need democrats is not because of filibuster, but because the freedom caucus will vote against it. The April resolution had 16 Republicans vote against it and 14 not vote at all. Oh cool, thanks.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:37
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 You guys can say "it's not a democrat win, just a republican own-goal" but that is kind of ignoring how things work, really. Nancy Pelosi went in to negotiate with Trump and the GOP. You can argue all you want that Trump agreeing is a Republican own-goal, but capitalizing on an opponent's weakness to gain leverage is just...how things work. She went in, had a strategy, took advantage of their weakest member, and got them to agree to a bad position. I'm not saying it was the "perfect, most awesome move ever, ohmygod" and have calmed down a bit, but trying to take it away because their opponent was incompetent...is just being pedantic. If your opponent has a weak spot and you exploit it to take down the people who may be a tougher challenge in one go, that's just a win.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:48
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when someone is helped, it's a win. for now? it was a good bit of prep work. you may recall counting chickens before they're hatched has bitten these same people pretty loving hard in the last twelve months.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:51
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Nancy Pelosi is therefore terrible and should be replaced by a Midwesterner who is far more leftist and who will also not frighten, um, Republican voters, and this will work because
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Sep 6, 2017 21:58
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Why should anyone give a poo poo about frightening Republican voters? That's the Clintonite strategy, and it's never made any sense.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:03
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D.N. Nation posted:Nancy Pelosi is therefore terrible and should be replaced by a Midwesterner who is far more leftist and who will also not frighten, um, Republican voters, and this will work because tim ryan is actually more centrist then pelosi lmao
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Sep 6, 2017 22:13
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Zoro posted:
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Sep 6, 2017 22:19
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Peachfart posted:I was replying to the two guys who did exactly that('certain members'). I wasn't painting everyone with a wide brush. The Dems have a decent chance of loving this up, but in the meantime I'm pleasantly surprised. "I'm not owned!" Thread shrinks into a corncob
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Sep 6, 2017 22:51
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yronic heroism posted:"I'm not owned!" It's you yronic. You are the corncob
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Sep 6, 2017 22:52
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yronic heroism posted:"I'm not owned!" Lol you're a corncob
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Sep 6, 2017 22:54
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im the corncob
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