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Plinkey
Aug 4, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Chakan posted:

Raw denim is just untreated, so you have to soak it once inside out in a hot bath before you wear it. It's really nothing special, but just like everything else people get obsessed about it trying to get good fade on their jeans & eventually you get a tweet about $500 jeans that were ruined by chipotle.

Yeah if you eat that much chipotle you're not going to fit in your skinny jeans for too long.

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the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
i am a nudist

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Another millennial killing the clothing industry...

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Only the finest reclaimed river denim from me, hand boiled.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup



loving millennial hipsters and their need to fabricate authenticity.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Domestic Amuse posted:

loving millennial hipsters and their need to fabricate authenticity.

Hey man, it takes a lot of money to dress like you're poor.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I mean I feel like if you actually fabricate it yourself it kind of is authentic. Stupid perhaps, but authentic.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!

GEMorris posted:

You Philistines wear non-selvedge denim?

anonumos posted:

My infant has functional pockets on his onesies. My wife does not even have fake pockets in her jeans.
I wear Levis because they fit my weird hips and huge rear end. If I could buy pants without pockets I would; they'd fit better. Unfortunately this has not been a trend in men's fashion since Saturday Night Fever came out.

bloodysabbath
May 1, 2004

OH NO!
At the risk of interrupting denim/womenswear chat, Gap/Banana Republic are closing hundreds of stores:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/06/news/companies/gap-banana-republic-stores-closing/index.html

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
Remember when The Gap thought that normcore was a real thing?

bloodysabbath
May 1, 2004

OH NO!

Halloween Jack posted:

Remember when The Gap thought that normcore was a real thing?

They will be opening more Old Navy and Athleta stores, apparently. Athleta I get because yoga pants sell like crazy, but I would have thought Old Navy would be a relic. What are the offerings even like there now?

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

bloodysabbath posted:

I would have thought Old Navy would be a relic. What are the offerings even like there now?
Gap, only cheaper.

That's also why it's more successful right now, probably. Most people don't have huge amounts of money to sink into clothes anymore.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I went into an Old Navy outlet store a few weeks back and holy poo poo the place was packed. People are still buying clothes but they're looking for deals, not fashion.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Toys R Us is probably going under.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/toys-r-us-weighs-possible-bankruptcy-filing.html

quote:

Toys R Us hires law firm as it explores possible bankruptcy filing Toys R Us hires law firm as it explores possible bankruptcy filing
Toys R Us has hired a law firm to help restructure its roughly $400 million in debt due in 2018, a move that could include the marquee toy store filing for bankruptcy protection, sources familiar with the situation said Wednesday.
...

Wayne, New Jersey-based Toys R Us blamed intense promotional activity and slowing baby business sales for its disappointing 2016 holiday results. The company, which relies heavily on holiday purchases to support its year-round business, saw same-store sales drop 3.4 percent from the previous holiday season.

The weaknesses have carried into the spring, with the company reporting in June that it had a net loss of $164 million in the fiscal first quarter of 2017, widening from $126 million a year earlier. Its same-store sales dropped 4.1 percent.

Toys R Us had roughly $301 million in cash on its balance sheet as of April 29.


I worked for TRU right out of high school from 2000-2003. Near the end of my employment, Amazon was making their way into the market but Walmart has recently tripled the number of toy items they carried. This was also before Target doubled their toy section as well.

When I got laid off in 2003, KB Toys folded and TRU had already begun closing a bunch of low-performing stores. Management had already openly expressed that Toys R Us was dead, but the company would be propped up by Babies R Us for as long as they could. That's when they expanded the BRU sections in TRU or made every store a TRU/BRU combination store.

Looks like the BRU money finally ran out. I'm guessing if they don't completely go away that they'll restructure as only Babies R Us with a small toy section now. Baby poo poo is still wildly profitable.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry
:rip: giraffe

I used to like going to TRU when I was a kid in the early 90s, but yeah I can't see parents springing to actually buy anything there when its often >25% cheaper off Amazon.

Also gently caress Gap, not surprised that they're dying off. Super overpriced basic-looking poo poo. I admit I kind of like some of Banana Republics stuff (mostly hit or miss) but it's also still 2x more than what I'd ever pay there when I can just go to Uniqlo or H&M or even Target instead and be happy

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Xaris posted:

I used to like going to TRU when I was a kid in the early 90s, but yeah I can't see parents springing to actually buy anything there when its often >25% cheaper off Amazon.
Plus when they buy off Amazon they don't have to deal with their kid racing around and seeing 50 more things they want right now.

Honestly surprised they haven't been in bigger trouble earlier. Clothing retail could have a chance because a lot of people would still rather try on clothes before buying them, big box stores have the 'get a wide variety of things without waiting for shipping' factor but toys? It's not anything special and definitely not something you'd need urgently, why bother buying it from a brick and mortar place?

e: I r very gud at spelling.

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Sep 6, 2017

Tiny Brontosaurus
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Haifisch posted:

Plus when they buy off Amazon they don't have to deal with their kid racing around and seeing 50 more things they want right now.

Honestly surprised they haven't been in bigger trouble earlier. Clothing retail could have a chance because a lot of people would still rather trying on clothes before buying them, big box stores have the 'get a wide variety of things without waiting for shipipng' factor but toys? It's not anything special and definitely not something you'd need urgently, why bother buying it from a brick and mortar place?

There's a little bit of specialness to letting a kid go to a store and pick out a toy themselves, but anybody doing that probably has their needs met by small local stores or the toy department of a big box store. As you said, TRU is overstimulating for kids and probably more trouble than it's worth, especially since their prices suck. I'm kind of surprised TRU never tried to shift into experience-oriented sales, like hosting birthday parties.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room
Tying it back to women's wear, Old Navy had/ maybe still has (I haven't been inside one in years) the most blatant vanity sizing I've seen in a major retailer, to the point that shopping there could be more trouble than it was worth. Every other place, I wear a size medium t-shirt or tank top, and like... I'm fine with that. But at Old Navy I was magically an extra small, and I think pants I bought from there were always a size or two smaller than all my other pairs, despite having the same measurements. It just felt really pandering and obvious, and made finding clothes that fit right even more annoying than it already is, so I just stopped going. Which of course was no big loss, their clothes aren't great to begin with and every one of their stores I ever went to blasted awful music and looked like a cyclone hit it.

bloodysabbath
May 1, 2004

OH NO!

Crow Jane posted:

Tying it back to women's wear, Old Navy had/ maybe still has (I haven't been inside one in years) the most blatant vanity sizing I've seen in a major retailer, to the point that shopping there could be more trouble than it was worth. Every other place, I wear a size medium t-shirt or tank top, and like... I'm fine with that. But at Old Navy I was magically an extra small, and I think pants I bought from there were always a size or two smaller than all my other pairs, despite having the same measurements. It just felt really pandering and obvious, and made finding clothes that fit right even more annoying than it already is, so I just stopped going. Which of course was no big loss, their clothes aren't great to begin with and every one of their stores I ever went to blasted awful music and looked like a cyclone hit it.

New pilot program announced by Gap inc., Old Navy Zero: Where every garment, regardless of the amount of fabric used to make it, is marked as a size zero.

*Gap stock reaches Apple prices*

*Torrid & Lane Bryant announce bankruptcy*

Tiny Brontosaurus
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Crow Jane posted:

Tying it back to women's wear, Old Navy had/ maybe still has (I haven't been inside one in years) the most blatant vanity sizing I've seen in a major retailer, to the point that shopping there could be more trouble than it was worth. Every other place, I wear a size medium t-shirt or tank top, and like... I'm fine with that. But at Old Navy I was magically an extra small, and I think pants I bought from there were always a size or two smaller than all my other pairs, despite having the same measurements. It just felt really pandering and obvious, and made finding clothes that fit right even more annoying than it already is, so I just stopped going. Which of course was no big loss, their clothes aren't great to begin with and every one of their stores I ever went to blasted awful music and looked like a cyclone hit it.

Yeah Old Navy's sizing is ridiculous.

Tiny Brontosaurus fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Sep 7, 2017

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Sizing should be a legally enforced thing, like saying your product contains 50% wool or this food has 12g of sugar. A 32" waist should be actually exactly 32" and so on.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Small/medium/large is ambiguous enough that I'm not sure how you'd decide sizing for it, though.

Solution: Standardized measurements for everything instead of this small/large petit/tall crap.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Haifisch posted:

Plus when they buy off Amazon they don't have to deal with their kid racing around and seeing 50 more things they want right now.

Honestly surprised they haven't been in bigger trouble earlier. Clothing retail could have a chance because a lot of people would still rather try on clothes before buying them, big box stores have the 'get a wide variety of things without waiting for shipping' factor but toys? It's not anything special and definitely not something you'd need urgently, why bother buying it from a brick and mortar place?

e: I r very gud at spelling.

Baby Registries have probably been keeping them alive for the last decade. The TRU division has been a walking corpse for 15 years now, it's all been about the baby stuff.

Some of you may remember that Toys R Us's online strategy was to parter with Amazon. They signed a 10 year deal to be the only toy seller on Amazon.

Amazon ended up loving them over and setting TRU's online strategy back a decade.

quote:

Prior to 2000, Toys R Us operated web sites at toysrus.com and babiesrus.com. By its own account, Toys R Us' online performance in 1999 was highly unsatisfactory. During 1999, Toys R Us did not have adequate inventory and fulfillment capabilities to meet the online demand for its products.

Amazon's performance in the toy arena in 1999 was similarly flawed. While it sold $65 million in toy products during that year, it purchased an additional $35 million in toy inventory it did not sell. This was a significant negative, given Amazon's inability to return this inventory to the vendors from whom it had been purchased.

The parties respective performances in 1999 created the opportunity for the transaction at the heart of this litigation. In early 2000, Toys R Us approached Amazon about the possibility of a partnership, which would marry Toys R Us's expertise in the toy arena, and its relationships with vendors, with Amazon's online prowess, and both its fulfillment and customer service capabilities.

The parties had differing visions as to how to best achieve their joint goal of a highly successful, online toy store. Toys R Us believed the road to success called for a focus on the top, best selling toys, which accounted for most of the toy sales in any given year. The key was to identify these toys, and have them in stock in supplies necessary to meet the high demand of the Thanksgiving to Christmas selling season, when the bulk of the product was sold. Here, Toy's experience was crucial, particularly given the fact that toy orders must be placed six to eight months before the Christmas season, and thus reflected an investment in inventory that may or may not sell, depending on public taste. Toys R Us did not want to offer the complete universe of toys, because of the inventory risk attendant thereto, arising out of the potential failure of portions of this inventory to sell.

Amazon had a different view. Consistent with its general operational philosophy of offering the customer the largest product selection available, Amazon wanted to offer as many toys as possible on its website. Amazon did not want to limit toy selection only to the best selling toys.

The parties ultimately entered into a Strategic Alliance Agreement in August 2000. The parties faced significant time constraints in the negotiation of this Agreement, as their joint desire was to have a site operational for the Christmas 2000 selling season.

Under this ten year Agreement, Toys R Us agreed to abandon its own operational websites, and migrate its online presence to Amazon's site. At that site the parties would create co-branded toy and baby product stores, jointly bearing the Amazon and Toys R Us marks. These stores would sell products selected and purchased by Toys R Us, which would own the inventory it determined to offer for sale on the site. Fulfillment and customer service would be supplied by Amazon. Amazon would also be responsible for site development and maintenance, including the site's 'look and feel.'

Toys R Us agreed to pay Amazon an annual fee, ultimately agreed to be $50 million a year, for the first four years of the agreement. Additional participation in the revenues generated by the store's online sales was also provided for in the Strategic Alliance Agreement.

As originally created, the parties' toy store was assigned a navigational "tab" that appeared prominently at the top of Amazon's home page. Clicking on this "tab" took a consumer to the co-branded online toy store. Other navigational links were also provided, including a link on the site's home page - again labeled "toys" -- in a navigational guide appearing on the left-hand side of the site's home page.

Between August 2000 and 2003, the parties jointly operated the toy store. Thereafter, Amazon pursued a number of initiatives that permitted third parties to sell toys on its site - both toys Toys R Us had elected not to sell, and toys then being sold by Toys R Us. These ventures took various forms. Third parties were permitted to post 'sponsored links' on Amazon's website, via Google advertisements. Clicking on these links took consumers off Amazon's site to those of third parties, at which toy purchases could be made. Amazon derived revenue from a consumer's click on such links that it did not share with Toys R Us.

Amazon also permitted third parties to sell toys on its site via use of its 1x1 GUI technology, and via various merchant@ agreements. These agreements permitted third parties, including toy sellers, to sell toys on Amazon's website. Some of those toys were listed on the very same web pages that displayed Toys R Us offerings. These included both toys Toys R Us had elected not to sell, as well as a smaller amount of toys it had in fact elected to sell. Access to such third party selling sites could also be obtained via searches for toys performed from the co-branded Toys R Us-Amazon toy store itself. Amazon also modified its site. During this modification, the prominent "tab" to the co-branded toy store that appeared at the top of the Amazon.com home page (along with tabs pointing to other stores) was eliminated.

These selling initiatives created disputes between the parties. When they could not be resolved, Toys R Us commenced this suit, charging that they constituted a breach of the parties' agreement. Toys R Us sought to terminate the agreement. It also sought to recover damages for its breach. Amazon counterclaimed, asserting Toys R Us had breached the agreement by failing either to maintain the appropriate number of toys for sale on the site, or keep sufficient inventory of such goods on hand to meet customer demand.

http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case424.cfm

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles

FCKGW posted:

Baby Registries have probably been keeping them alive for the last decade. The TRU division has been a walking corpse for 15 years now, it's all been about the baby stuff.

Some of you may remember that Toys R Us's online strategy was to parter with Amazon. They signed a 10 year deal to be the only toy seller on Amazon.

Amazon ended up loving them over and setting TRU's online strategy back a decade.


http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case424.cfm

I imagine that to other retailers, this felt like the moment in a movie where someone sells out the group to the villain and then Amazon turns to Toys R Us and says "You have served me well, and now you will be rewarded as a traitor deserves".

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!

bloodysabbath posted:

They will be opening more Old Navy and Athleta stores, apparently. Athleta I get because yoga pants sell like crazy, but I would have thought Old Navy would be a relic. What are the offerings even like there now?
I managed to get some nice light trousers for the summer when they still sold linen-blend, but since they stopped doing that it's all been downhill.

perfluorosapien
Aug 15, 2015

Oven Wrangler
Yeah Toys R Us wasn't Amazon's only failed retail partnership.

There was also Target...
https://www.ft.com/content/238a4243-18c2-31f6-b844-514045ef570c

...and UK retailer Marks & Spencer ...
https://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2382595/no-regrets-over-leaving-the-amazon-cloud-says-marks-spencer

... and a few acquisitions that ultimately got shut down - Quidsi (diapers.com, mom.com) and MyHabit being the more recent ones.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

bloodysabbath posted:

New pilot program announced by Gap inc., Old Navy Zero: Where every garment, regardless of the amount of fabric used to make it, is marked as a size zero.

*Gap stock reaches Apple prices*

*Torrid & Lane Bryant announce bankruptcy*

It'd also be a form of indirect sabotage, customers would go into other retailers and tear the clothes trying them on because they know they're a size zero and they're gonna pull those tiny jeans up one way or another, dammit

A friend of mine worked in a fairly upscale boutique and had to gently explain the Old Navy sizing thing to irate or embarrassed customers at least once a week

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

bloodysabbath posted:

New pilot program announced by Gap inc., Old Navy Zero: Where every garment, regardless of the amount of fabric used to make it, is marked as a size zero.

*Gap stock reaches Apple prices*

*Torrid & Lane Bryant announce bankruptcy*

Those three stores are completely different demographics.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Halloween Jack posted:

Remember when The Gap thought that normcore was a real thing?

It will always be one of my fondest busines memories where everyone involved lived in a magical manhattan exclusive reality bubble.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
At least Jena Malone got a free pair of jeans out of it.

I'm still not sure what normcore was supposed to be. Like, if it was just dressing in boring clothes, or if it was about dressing in ugly Napoleon Dynamite costumes on purpose.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Halloween Jack posted:

At least Jena Malone got a free pair of jeans out of it.

I'm still not sure what normcore was supposed to be. Like, if it was just dressing in boring clothes, or if it was about dressing in ugly Napoleon Dynamite costumes on purpose.

I think it was supposed to be 20 somethings dressing like their parents did in the mid-90s, but gently caress if I really know for sure.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Bird in a Blender posted:

I think it was supposed to be 20 somethings dressing like their parents did in the mid-90s, but gently caress if I really know for sure.
It was supposed to piggyback on the whole Thrift Store aesthetic coming back to that not-quite grunge look from the 90s.

You want performative ironic nostalgia? Check out these jeans that look like something GUESS/Kelly Kapowski would wear! Why bother hunting through a dime store bin when you can get them at our shop.

Tiny Brontosaurus
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

FilthyImp posted:

It was supposed to piggyback on the whole Thrift Store aesthetic coming back to that not-quite grunge look from the 90s.

You want performative ironic nostalgia? Check out these jeans that look like something GUESS/Kelly Kapowski would wear! Why bother hunting through a dime store bin when you can get them at our shop.

That's not quite it, I think. That's just retro. Normcore was, as previously mentioned, a made-up press release prank, but people do use it now to describe a specific style of drab, body-unconscious (I just made that term up but you get it right, opposite of bodycon) dressing that doesn't highlight or enhance any part of the body. When I see fashion write-ups say "normcore" now it's almost always describing utilitiarian sandals like Birkenstocks, boxy tops in drab colors, and light-wash straight-leg jeans. There are definite 90s influences but the aesthetic is more about minimalism and "I'm so hot I can wear this ugly thing" than evoking a specific era. It's explicitly non-performative (which is of course itself a kind of performance but you know...)

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Yeah Old Navy's sizing is ridiculous.



All of the stuff I wear right now is from H&M, so now I know if I ever need to feel better about myself I'll just go try on some jeans at Old Navy.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I get poo poo like "small" or "size 4" being pretty subjective, but an actual measurement in inches should maybe actually be that measurement in inches. It would be like ordering a "foot long" sub and getting something 11"

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Baronjutter posted:

I get poo poo like "small" or "size 4" being pretty subjective, but an actual measurement in inches should maybe actually be that measurement in inches. It would be like ordering a "foot long" sub and getting something 11"

I'm a 6'4" lady and if a brand offers different in seams at all on their pants, it can range anywhere from 32 to 38 as a correct fit for me depending on brand. Sometimes it even varies by line within a brand. It's loving awful.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Baronjutter posted:

It would be like ordering a "foot long" sub and getting something 11"

What, completely typical for a century?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

fishmech posted:

What, completely typical for a century?

:gif of simpsons action guy doing stand up:

Also people have tried to sue building supply places because they bought an "8x8" post and got home to find it was in fact not exactly 8" x 8".

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

:gif of simpsons action guy doing stand up:

Also people have tried to sue building supply places because they bought an "8x8" post and got home to find it was in fact not exactly 8" x 8".

I hate when 2 by 4s aren't 1.500" by 3.500"!

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txPcLOtbG3s

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