Fallout 4 Modding: By the people, for the people. You feel me?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fallout 4 Modding: By the people, for the people. You feel me?

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RagnarokZ: May 14, 2004; Emperor of the Internet

Raygereio posted:

It makes sense when you consider the restrictions for modding on the console. The files added by patches don't count towards the storage cap for mods. So distributing the assets as part of a patch was the simplest solution for allowing the console users to actually use the poo poo Bethesda wants them to pay for. Similarly the new .esl data file was probably thought up as a way around the plugin limit on the console.

The �We�re working on solutions that would not require Creation Club archives be part of the game�s patch� probably means they're negotiating with Microsoft and Sony.

On PC it's just lazy bullshit.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 19:01

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:03

LumberingTroll: Sep 9, 2007; Really it's not because
I don't like you...

So, a week or so ago people were talking about a new limit for mod files, was this implemented? I cant find any info on it and want to make sure I dont need to do anything special to use more mods, getting ready for another play though.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 22:44

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

LumberingTroll posted:

So, a week or so ago people were talking about a new limit for mod files, was this implemented? I cant find any info on it and want to make sure I dont need to do anything special to use more mods, getting ready for another play though.

ESL files? They should be in but no one is using them yet. There's no support for them in xEdit yet (at least as far as I'm aware), is the most likely reason.

So no, right now if you're at the mod cap you can't add any more unless you find mods that are using .esl files.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 23:09

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Gonkish posted:

ESL files? They should be in but no one is using them yet. There's no support for them in xEdit yet (at least as far as I'm aware), is the most likely reason.

So no, right now if you're at the mod cap you can't add any more unless you find mods that are using .esl files.

I think there's already a test version of xEdit that supports ESLs, so it's coming.
And you can always convert small mods yourself to an ESL with the Creation Kit.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 23:23

LumberingTroll: Sep 9, 2007; Really it's not because
I don't like you...

Thanks guys,

Any one else playing with the Horizon mod? Thats my goal for this play though and I am looking for any mods that will go well with it. So far I have,

Shadow Boost
Def_UI
Full Dialogue Interface
Place Everywhere
Scrap Everything
Armorsmith Extended
Homemaker
Crossbows of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements addons

LumberingTroll fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 00:04

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Scrap Everything takes apart every prebuilt clutter object in settlements. Sim Settlements spawns in extra geometry that doesn't count toward the limit. Pick one, or your machine will poo poo itself trying to render your settlement when you walk up to it.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 00:26

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Glazius posted:

Scrap Everything takes apart every prebuilt clutter object in settlements. Sim Settlements spawns in extra geometry that doesn't count toward the limit. Pick one, or your machine will poo poo itself trying to render your settlement when you walk up to it.

I don't understand this? You can use both of them together.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 01:07

turn off the TV: Aug 4, 2010; moderately annoying

OwlFancier posted:

I don't understand this? You can use both of them together.

I think the point was that since scrap everything breaks occlusion culling and combined meshes it can have a pretty significant performance impact, especially when coupled with a mod that bypasses the normal object limit. So long as you keep that in mind, however, there shouldn't be any issues.

I'd actually recommend using both mods, because in contrast scrap everything can be used to remove most of or all of the preexisting meshes in a cell, which should be easier on performance anywhere that isn't Hangman's Alley or Jamaica Plain.

turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 01:32

Erd: Jun 6, 2011

LumberingTroll posted:

Thanks guys,

Any one else playing with the Horizon mod? Thats my goal for this play though and I am looking for any mods that will go well with it. So far I have,

Shadow Boost
Def_UI
Full Dialogue Interface
Place Everywhere
Scrap Everything
Armorsmith Extended
Homemaker
Crossbows of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements addons

You might want to think about adding weapons to fill the holes in the current line up and keep your limited ammo relevant, because leveling up to new tiers of weapon is slowed down. I'd suggest a mid level shotgun and rifle, and a higher level SMG.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:07

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

turn off the TV posted:

I think the point was that since scrap everything breaks occlusion culling and combined meshes it can have a pretty significant performance impact, especially when coupled with a mod that bypasses the normal object limit. So long as you keep that in mind, however, there shouldn't be any issues.

I'd actually recommend using both mods, because in contrast scrap everything can be used to remove most of or all of the preexisting meshes in a cell, which should be easier on performance anywhere that isn't Hangman's Alley or Jamaica Plain.

I thought it specifically didn't break occlusion culling because if you delete large objects with it they still have their occlusion effects.

I also, frankly, didn't realize any of the settlements had occlusion being as open as they are.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:08

Kiggles: Dec 30, 2007

OwlFancier posted:

I thought it specifically didn't break occlusion culling because if you delete large objects with it they still have their occlusion effects.

I also, frankly, didn't realize any of the settlements had occlusion being as open as they are.

What you're both thinking of is the precombine, which basically lumps a bunch of the static objects into (almost) 1 single object. Outside Hangman's Ally, Bunker Hill, or Jamaica Plains, Scrap Everything will generally be a net gain, because the relative proportion of stuff in the affected cells is probably less than what you can scrap within the settlement boundaries.

In those other locations however, forget it - the increase in object processing that occurs by virtue of Scrap Everything breaking the precombine will crush performance with about nothing you can do about it, as the overwhelming majority of the precombine will be outside settlement boundaries, and the relative increase in object quantity that constitutes downtown will dwarf anything you could scrap within said settlements. It's such a drag that I simply don't use Scrapping mods, and go out of my way to avoid anything that changes ANY vanilla gameworld objects - ADDING objects is fine, but even modifying a vanilla static breaks the whole thing for the entire cell.

Occlusion culling is definitely part of it, but it only goes so far, where the precombine mesh was a blunt force solution to claw back some of the object processing overhead - and it works fine ignoring mods. It works fine if you simply add to it. Get hosed it you do anything that makes direct edits however. I strongly recommend against using Scrap Everything, or any other scraping/clean up mod, regardless of make or variety. Your best bet is to just find something that retextures those trash heaps into a more benign/less offensive mound of dirt. At least that way the precombine mesh remains in tact.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:59

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

So on creation club topic, are there any records of how much stuff has been sold yet? How successful has Bethesda's rollout content been sales wise?

# ? Sep 6, 2017 08:04

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

I figure they're playing close to the chest on that front.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 08:11

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

They have a near 100% install rate!

# ? Sep 6, 2017 11:23

Devorum: Jul 30, 2005

LumberingTroll posted:

Thanks guys,

Any one else playing with the Horizon mod? Thats my goal for this play though and I am looking for any mods that will go well with it. So far I have,

Shadow Boost
Def_UI
Full Dialogue Interface
Place Everywhere
Scrap Everything
Armorsmith Extended
Homemaker
Crossbows of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements addons

Is the Horizon mod good for a first time playthrough? The super slow leveling is kind of putting me off...but I like everything else.

EDIT: If I have 3 mods that add weapons (Weapon Overhaul, CoC, and Boss Chest Contain Legendaries), do I have to create a patch? I'm pretty new to extensive modding.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 11:46

turn off the TV: Aug 4, 2010; moderately annoying

Kiggles posted:

What you're both thinking of is the precombine, which basically lumps a bunch of the static objects into (almost) 1 single object. Outside Hangman's Ally, Bunker Hill, or Jamaica Plains, Scrap Everything will generally be a net gain, because the relative proportion of stuff in the affected cells is probably less than what you can scrap within the settlement boundaries.

In those other locations however, forget it - the increase in object processing that occurs by virtue of Scrap Everything breaking the precombine will crush performance with about nothing you can do about it, as the overwhelming majority of the precombine will be outside settlement boundaries, and the relative increase in object quantity that constitutes downtown will dwarf anything you could scrap within said settlements. It's such a drag that I simply don't use Scrapping mods, and go out of my way to avoid anything that changes ANY vanilla gameworld objects - ADDING objects is fine, but even modifying a vanilla static breaks the whole thing for the entire cell.

Occlusion culling is definitely part of it, but it only goes so far, where the precombine mesh was a blunt force solution to claw back some of the object processing overhead - and it works fine ignoring mods. It works fine if you simply add to it. Get hosed it you do anything that makes direct edits however. I strongly recommend against using Scrap Everything, or any other scraping/clean up mod, regardless of make or variety. Your best bet is to just find something that retextures those trash heaps into a more benign/less offensive mound of dirt. At least that way the precombine mesh remains in tact.

Scrap Everything only makes edits to the records of settlement cells, which means that the precombined objects and previs of the rest of the game remains completely intact unless you choose to disable the system globally through an .ini edit. It won't have any impact on performance outside of settlement cells.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 12:35

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

turn off the TV posted:

Scrap Everything only makes edits to the records of settlement cells, which means that the precombined objects and previs of the rest of the game remains completely intact unless you choose to disable the system globally through an .ini edit. It won't have any impact on performance outside of settlement cells.

I selectively decombined some stuff you find listed as "road" that contains a car or what have you, usually found on highways, there is no way i would touch buildings (greebs aside) as, yeah, probably slow stuff right down.

I have finally added the yuge skyrim costumes to the LL's, now my wasteland is satisfyingly wild, I need more wacky bloke clothes though.
I guess I'll head over to Loverslab.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 11:01

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

be warned, adventurer: gaze too long into the slab and the slab will gaze into you.

# ? Sep 7, 2017 11:51

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

Grand Prize Winner posted:

be warned, adventurer: gaze too long into the slab and the slab will gaze into you.

Animated dog cocks.
(Non mutant, I guess...?)

The depths of our collective subconcious aside,"I speak only japanese" automatron mods added to the leveled lists is a piece of 'lurk trifle, however I'd like to have those things roaming the wastelands. at least, have the wheeled things being used, the tankbots would make automatron actually challenging.

staberind fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 7, 2017

# ? Sep 7, 2017 14:08

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

So if ESL files are limited to 4096 records, that would really only make them useful for compatibility patches or one and done weapon/armor mods, right?

# ? Sep 7, 2017 16:43

Dongattack: Dec 20, 2006; by Cyrano4747

So has any modder taken down their free mods to upload them for sale on the store yet?

# ? Sep 8, 2017 00:28

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

Dongattack posted:

So has any modder taken down their free mods to upload them for sale on the store yet?

Well, I was thinking of putting my cannibalism to necrophilia perk-every raider looks like todd howard combo on onto the nexus, but if I can make cash money for my talents as a lowest form of humor barrel scraper, why not?

# ? Sep 8, 2017 00:37

Dongattack: Dec 20, 2006; by Cyrano4747

staberind posted:

Well, I was thinking of putting my cannibalism to necrophilia perk-every raider looks like todd howard combo on onto the nexus, but if I can make cash money for my talents as a lowest form of humor barrel scraper, why not?

p-please no
i n-need that

# ? Sep 8, 2017 00:38

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Dongattack posted:

So has any modder taken down their free mods to upload them for sale on the store yet?

Since Bethesda has complete oversight over what becomes a CC mod---ahead of work starting---that would be stupid (so yeah probably happened), unless Bethesda reneges on their promise to not allow repackaged old mods. Which I really don't see them doing.

# ? Sep 8, 2017 00:41

Variable Haircut: Jan 25, 2012

Rinkles posted:

Since Bethesda has complete oversight over what becomes a CC mod---ahead of work starting---that would be stupid (so yeah probably happened), unless Bethesda reneges on their promise to not allow repackaged old mods. Which I really don't see them doing.

KingGath: Hey Bethesda, I want to host SimSettlements and all future content on the CC.
Bethesda: :gizz:

KingGath:

# ? Sep 8, 2017 02:14

RagnarokZ: May 14, 2004; Emperor of the Internet

Variable Haircut posted:

KingGath: Hey Bethesda, I want to host SimSettlements and all future content on the CC.
Bethesda:
KingGath:

Nah, they'll say no, cause Zenimax want's it ALL!

# ? Sep 8, 2017 17:54

Nevets: Sep 11, 2002; Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell

Does the CC terms of service allow for hosted mods to required third party software like F4SE?

# ? Sep 8, 2017 17:58

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Nevets posted:

Does the CC terms of service allow for hosted mods to required third party software like F4SE?

Presumably they have to work on all platforms, which would mean no.

# ? Sep 8, 2017 18:03

Arkitektbmw: Jun 22, 2010

Makes sense, but that'll cut them off at the knees.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 09:37

staberind: Feb 20, 2008; but i dont wanna be a spaceship; Fun Shoe

pcmasterrace.esm
ha.esp
ha.unofficial patch.esp
fucksony.esp

# ? Sep 9, 2017 12:11

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Nevets posted:

Does the CC terms of service allow for hosted mods to required third party software like F4SE?

In theory, it'd be almost trivial for Bethesda to add a specific F4SE hook to the official script engine if someone needs it.

In practice, lol.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 14:50

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Welp, CC. What a wet fart eh? lets move on with our lives and enjoy these other things instead!

Still now they 'brought back' the old Gauss rifle some modder is going to make an even better version as a gently caress you. Huzzah!

Atomguard is a tribute to Dawnguard sort of mod that adds pretty much Dawnguard to the game. You have Vampirism, Vampire Hunters and even the companion from the Skyrim DLC. Personally, It needs to be a little more lore friendly to be interesting for me but if you ever wanted RADIOACTIVE VAMPIRES in your life.

Fallout 2287 - Gas Masks of the Wasteland is an interesting mod, not only adding a bunch of diverse gas masks to the pool but a new enviromental effect outside that essentially whips up radiated smog and fog that pretty much makes both the player and NPC characters briefly have to whip out and wear masks while it lasts. Said smog and other mask stuff can be tweaked with a holotape for player tastes.

And while we're on the subject for masks, a modder with direct permission from Overkill has converted and tweaked some of the masks from the Payday franchise into the game.

Bear Hunter Set is another interesting Skyrim style tribute, run around in furs and shoot things dead with a working bow!

Speaking of bows somebody brought back the Deathclaw Gimping Fallout 3 Dart Gun.

The one missing dog from Fallout 3 is the non mutie one that is sadly suffering from living in a radiated wasteland. Ven's Ghoul Dogs returns this fellow once more to the dog pool. End his suffering.

Forter Stronger basically revisits an complete reworks Fort Strong up, from a minor boring bland Mutie infested ruins you spend ten minutes around to a interesting and tougher old school sort of Fallout dungeon!

YK-16 Trauma Override Harness is another old NPC coming back to be shot in the face sort of mod.

Follower Revive System makes it when your down and out you have a small bleedout phase which Followers can save you from death like you do with them. I am not sure how this works with the ones without hands.

Lets have some weapon reworking mods, those are always great!

The Fatman (Fat Man) Weapon Rework completely retools both the weapon, weight and modifications of everyones favourite nuke throwing catapult.

Two Handed Shishkebab elongates the weapon, makes it a two hander and most importantly takes it from a mid damage weapon to something a little more hardcore.

Recycle- Give Me My Leftovers Back is an interesting little mod which gives you the empties and resources from consumeables for you to craft with.

If you liked the pins from the infamous new SPECIAL or loading screens, Collectible and Placeable Pins gives you the option to craft and display them in your or player settlement.

Somebody has restored the Prost Bar AKA The Bar From Cheers and made it a player home.

And finally how about some SPARTAN Armor from the HALO franchise.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 15:38

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Mod Configuration Menu for FO4 is a thing now. Rejoice!. No more mucking about with Messages that have been jury rigged into menus.

MikeJF posted:

In theory, it'd be almost trivial for Bethesda to add a specific F4SE hook to the official script engine if someone needs it.

If you mean what I think you mean, then that's already possible with the script extenders.
When you run a script that uses functionality from the script extenders on a game that isn't running xSE, the game won't immediately crash or anything. The scripting engine will see that bit, shrug at you by throwing out lots of errors if you have debugging enabled and try to move on. Depending on how the script was written a xSE function not being run can cause the whole script to fail, but if the coder was smart about it will simply skip the xSE-specific bit.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 16:00

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Raygereio posted:

Mod Configuration Menu for FO4 is a thing now. Rejoice!. No more mucking about with Messages that have been jury rigged into menus.

If you mean what I think you mean, then that's already possible with the script extenders.
When you run a script that uses functionality from the script extenders on a game that isn't running xSE, the game won't immediately crash or anything. The scripting engine will see that bit, shrug at you by throwing out lots of errors if you have debugging enabled and try to move on. Depending on how the script was written a xSE function not being run can cause the whole script to fail, but if the coder was smart about it will simply skip the xSE-specific bit.

No, I mean that if there's someone who needs a function in F4SE for their Creation Club mod, it'd be simple for Bethesda to just properly expose it as an official scripting function in a patch. As I understand, the vast majority of SKSE functions are exposing native programmatic functions from within the papyrus engine.

That would require, like, actually doing something, though, so ain't gonna happen.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 16:16

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

MikeJF posted:

As I understand, the vast majority of SKSE functions are exposing native programmatic functions from within the papyrus engine.

Yes, but mostly no.
The script extenders doesn't unearth hidden functionality. It adds completely new functions. Bethesda didn't create those functions themselves because they simply didn't need them when creating the game. For example Bethesda has no need for IsKeyPressed because they don't need to jury rig a hotkey via a script.

I guess the reason people keep making that mistake is because the xSE team tends to use terms like "expose native functions".
In context "expose" basically means "to make available".
As for "native function": A native function is implemented in the game's own code. Which is what xSE's function are. Basically when you boot the game with the Script Extender, the latter shoves its code into that of the game as it's being loaded into memory through the magic of DLL injection. As far as the scripting engine is concerned, a native function from xSE is indistinguishable from an original native function by Bethesda.

The functions added by xSE are not called custom functions, because these are functions that have been implemented through scripting. For example you can declare a custom function like this:

code:

ScriptName CustomFunctionLibrary
int Function AwesomeCustomFunction(int a, int b) global
	return a + b
endFunction

And call it in another script like so:

code:

int iTotal = CustomFunctionLibrary.AwesomeCustomFunction(1, 2)

Which is neat, but not the thing the Script Extender does.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 9, 2017

# ? Sep 9, 2017 16:48

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

Do any of the actual good mods require the DLCs or can I get away without having every single one of them?

# ? Sep 13, 2017 04:44

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Only a few of the weapon ones really need the DLC.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 12:50

Terrorforge: Dec 22, 2013; More of a furnace, really

The big total-conversion ones like FROST and Horizon generally need the DLC as well, at least for full functionality.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 13:01

Phrosphor: Feb 25, 2007; Urbanisation

I think sim settlements needs the dlc as well? It uses stuff from manufactury I think.

Why did we get three dlc's of just 'stuff for your settlements'? Sim Settlements is everything I wanted out of the system and some dude made it in his spare time.

# ? Sep 14, 2017 00:38

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:03

Jimbot: Jul 22, 2008

Is there anything I can do to remedy the occasional game freezes I get when randomly wandering around? Short of removing the mod that is. I got one of those NPC overhaul mods that adds more variety to the raiders and such but whenever I come to an area that has any kind of population my game freezes for 3-5 seconds, presumably to load in the actors. In huge areas, like the plant, it actually froze for about 20 seconds. I never had it this bad before, even in Skyrim where I used a lot of mods to change up (and add to) the population and that game barely hitched at all.

# ? Sep 14, 2017 05:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fallout 4 Modding: By the people, for the people. You feel me?

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